APR Stage III EFR Turbocharger System: Update Inside!

[Arin@APR]

As we near the official release of our new 500HP+ EFR Turbocharger System for the MK7 GTI, Golf R, A3, S3 and more, a select group of talented APR dealers from across the world have already begun beta testing the system in the wild. Our Engineers are paying close attention to feedback from multiple vehicles with various configurations in several different climates and environmental conditions all in an effort to tweak the system to perfection. With the holidays upon us, the dealers will be racking up the miles through both fun and travel, while we prepare to begin shipping systems in early 2016. Here’s a quick preview of the system to come. Thank you, and stay tuned for more details after the holidays!

[A20V200]

Well...if all goes well with the tuning and real world application....i'd be in for one. And if the price is right of course.

[XLR8 Craig]

Well...if all goes well with the tuning and real world application....i'd be in for one. And if the price is right of course.

Let us know, we have a list started for those who want to pre-order them ;)

[lamchop]

I am interested also, do you know what the price would be and would it be officially release?

[P2WRTMR]

They still dont seem to want to answer if this will be available in California. They still wont say how much and they still wont say when it will be available. SMH

[WildHareMS]

They still dont seem to want to answer if this will be available in California. They still wont say how much and they still wont say when it will be available. SMH

I'm kind of betting that it's technically "for off road use only". Probably available anywhere, not EPA or CARB legal though. Although, nothing without a catalytic converter is. Lol

[phillyquattro]

They still dont seem to want to answer if this will be available in California. They still wont say how much and they still wont say when it will be available. SMH

It's not ready for release yet so why would they say how much? The amount of time spent in R&D affects the price, hence it would be foolish of them to name a price now only to spend another X amount of months developing it which would increase said price and then in turn piss off everyone.

[AllroadCorbin]

Perhaps I dont know enough about the strength of the DSG transmission but theres no way the stock DSG that comes with these cars will last long with this much power/TQ. I'm curious to know more about what these DSGs can handle/ what (if anything APR would need to do to make that work). I feel like it would be pretty easy to fortify the manual box to handle the power but the DSG? I'm curious....especially since the S3 doesnt offer the manual. Very fascinated by this upcoming release

[Arin@APR]

We will have various output levels depending on mods.

[rj1031]

Are you guys going to include an E85 set-up with this kit? I am only concerned about the limited space for a larger FMIC to cool down those intake air temps. At least with E85 cooling characteristics, it should make stock or aftermarket once somewhat sufficient.

[hodrosS42001]

Perhaps I dont know enough about the strength of the DSG transmission but theres no way the stock DSG that comes with these cars will last long with this much power/TQ. I'm curious to know more about what these DSGs can handle/ what (if anything APR would need to do to make that work). I feel like it would be pretty easy to fortify the manual box to handle the power but the DSG? I'm curious....especially since the S3 doesnt offer the manual. Very fascinated by this upcoming release

The DQ250 is an interesting little transmission. It's not rated for too much torque but people have been abusing the hell out of them for a long time. Based on hybrid turbo applications oversea's limiting torque to sub 450 ft lbs seems to keep the stock clutches from slipping under high load conditions with a TCU tune. Anything beyond that will probably cause premature failure of the clutches. The physical transmission itself isn't the problem, upgraded clutches solve the issue. But, they are limited suppliers SSP, they are expensive, many shops wont touch them and they are very delicate to install and balance properly and the TCU has to adapt to them.

So you'll probably see even with the most aggressive E85 tune torque limited and peak horsepower at higher rpm increased based on octane and timing. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Stage 3+ with 450 ft lbs and 500+ bhp up top while still being "relatively" safe.

[onequick4door]

"I wouldn't be surprised to see a Stage 3+ with 450 ft lbs and 500+ bhp up top while still being "relatively" safe."

Count me in if that turns out to be true.

[salvadorik]

Speaking about DQ250, do S3s and A3s with 6 speed DSG share basically the same tranny? Or is there any reinforcement done DQ250 found on S3s vs those on A3s. For example, 2.0 tfsi engine, EA888, on S3s gets beefed up internal components.

Oh S3 wtih 500 plus hp with APR stage III - wow this would be a single most electrifying experience that one would hope.

[GramCracker]

Speaking about DQ250, do S3s and A3s with 6 speed DSG share basically the same tranny? Or is there any reinforcement done DQ250 found on S3s vs those on A3s. For example, 2.0 tfsi engine, EA888, on S3s gets beefed up internal components.

Oh S3 wtih 500 plus hp with APR stage III - wow this would be a single most electrifying experience that one would hope.

My understanding is that there are slight differences between the transmissions in the A3/S3. I need to do some digging to confirm a source.

[AllroadCorbin]

The DQ250 is an interesting little transmission. It's not rated for too much torque but people have been abusing the hell out of them for a long time. Based on hybrid turbo applications oversea's limiting torque to sub 450 ft lbs seems to keep the stock clutches from slipping under high load conditions with a TCU tune. Anything beyond that will probably cause premature failure of the clutches. The physical transmission itself isn't the problem, upgraded clutches solve the issue. But, they are limited suppliers SSP, they are expensive, many shops wont touch them and they are very delicate to install and balance properly and the TCU has to adapt to them.

So you'll probably see even with the most aggressive E85 tune torque limited and peak horsepower at higher rpm increased based on octane and timing. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Stage 3+ with 450 ft lbs and 500+ bhp up top while still being "relatively" safe.

I would just like to know more about the actual limits of this DSG. It's pretty easy to find out the limits of my ZF8.. but I haven't really heard a definitive answer on the DQ250.... people say no more than stock...some say 450....some say its all dependent on the TCU tune and the pressure the software causes the internals to apply. Interested to see how they do over the long haul!

[hodrosS42001]

I would just like to know more about the actual limits of this DSG. It's pretty easy to find out the limits of my ZF8.. but I haven't really heard a definitive answer on the DQ250.... people say no more than stock...some say 450....some say its all dependent on the TCU tune and the pressure the software causes the internals to apply. Interested to see how they do over the long haul!

People haven't really found the limit of the 8 Speed ZF.. l haven't heard of any premature failures due to clutch pack failure and l talk to alot of companies overseas.

My comment from before was in relation to a few cars overseas that had an otherwise stock transmission with a tcu tune from MRC Tuning that replaced their clutches to go larger than stock turbo (hybrid) they reported no clutch deterioration or issues upon inspection and they made many drag strip passes and we're run hard.. At around 450/450 power levels. Like mentioned the tune impacts the longevity and how the car is driven.. Many people in the states won't see high load scenarios (4th-6th) gear full throttle pulls so the strain on the clutches will be less than most drivers overseas who may push the limit more often.

[PAT@RSW]

The Team at RSW has been selected to BETA Test the up-coming 2.0T MQB APR, LLC. Stage 3 EFR Turbocharger Upgrade. Have your first look NOW! We are extremely pleased with the top quality of all the included components, as well as the ease of installation but more on that later, stay tuned!

** APR has not yet released any POWER figures or PRICING on this Upgrade, so please don't ask just yet **

[Arin@APR]

Are you guys going to include an E85 set-up with this kit? I am only concerned about the limited space for a larger FMIC to cool down those intake air temps. At least with E85 cooling characteristics, it should make stock or aftermarket once somewhat sufficient.

E85 is in the works, but the intercooler is necessary. However, that's no problem. This massive one works wonders and has no trouble, even with higher output levels:

http://www.goapr.com/products/interc...ea888_mqb.html



Massive bar-and-plate. No trimming. Just fits.

[rj1031]

E85 is in the works, but the intercooler is necessary. However, that's no problem. This massive one works wonders and has no trouble, even with higher output levels:

http://www.goapr.com/products/interc...ea888_mqb.html



Massive bar-and-plate. No trimming. Just fits.

Nice!

Knowing these motors are under-squared, just wondering how strong the connecting rods are and their bearings. 500+ hp is no joke. I am already planning on having a longer rod where the piston pin will be at the highest to have better rod/stroke ratio (less load on the cylinder walls). I want to get in to the cylinder head and see if there's room for improvement. I'm excited on this kit!

[hodrosS42001]

Nice!

Knowing these motors are under-squared, just wondering how strong the connecting rods are and their bearings. 500+ hp is no joke. I am already planning on having a longer rod where the piston pin will be at the highest to have better rod/stroke ratio (less load on the cylinder walls). I want to get in to the cylinder head and see if there's room for improvement. I'm excited on this kit!

We'll, their forged Mahle from the factory.

[Arin@APR]

We'll have all recommendations at the launch. But, for what it's worth, we punished the engine at 450 FT-LBS on the engine dyno for 100 back to back runs, followed by 500 FT-LBS for 50 or so, and then around 550 for around 30 runs. No issues with rods folding over for us.

[Frinkferta]

We'll have all recommendations at the launch. But, for what it's worth, we punished the engine at 450 FT-LBS on the engine dyno for 100 back to back runs, followed by 500 FT-LBS for 50 or so, and then around 550 for around 30 runs. No issues with rods folding over for us.

That's a stout motor! Was that the S3 motor? Will there be separate testing for the A3 motor?

[aj6]

People haven't really found the limit of the 8 Speed ZF.. l haven't heard of any premature failures due to clutch pack failure and l talk to alot of companies overseas.

My comment from before was in relation to a few cars overseas that had an otherwise stock transmission with a tcu tune from MRC Tuning that replaced their clutches to go larger than stock turbo (hybrid) they reported no clutch deterioration or issues upon inspection and they made many drag strip passes and we're run hard.. At around 450/450 power levels. Like mentioned the tune impacts the longevity and how the car is driven.. Many people in the states won't see high load scenarios (4th-6th) gear full throttle pulls so the strain on the clutches will be less than most drivers overseas who may push the limit more often.

Just as a data point for the discussion, I have an A3 with recent APR Stage II upgrade and I have clutch slippage in 4th gear from ~2200-2800 rpm while under less than maximum load, i.e. deep throttle but not enough to cause the downshift to 3rd. I have no slippage under normal WOT conditions throughout the rev/gear range. I flashed the APR TCU upgrade recently and it abated the issue somewhat, but it still persists. Hopefully what was mentioned about the TCU adapting is true and it will resolve itself.

[salvadorik]

wow VW did really use beefy internal engine parts when they developed S3 version of EA888.

So the potential mechanical failure could be blown turbos, failed DSG (or not?), and perhaps quattro system but not engine, huh?

[rj1031]

We'll have all recommendations at the launch. But, for what it's worth, we punished the engine at 450 FT-LBS on the engine dyno for 100 back to back runs, followed by 500 FT-LBS for 50 or so, and then around 550 for around 30 runs. No issues with rods folding over for us.

This is very encouraging news! Thanks for sharing the valuable information. On launch...will there be drivetrain components to support the new awespiring power emitted?

[JohnnyUtah787]

wow VW did really use beefy internal engine parts when they developed S3 version of EA888.

So the potential mechanical failure could be blown turbos, failed DSG (or not?), and perhaps quattro system but not engine, huh?

I'm with you, at those torque levels something has to give...although it sure would be nice to be wrong :)