B7 RS4 pressure plate (clutch disk too?), RA4 flywheel

[MetalMan]

Hey all, I've had this thought in my head for some time now.
A while back I picked up a lightly used ECS Tuning RA4 flywheel. Either during shipping or by PO, the dowel pins for the pressure plate were removed (it was poorly packaged and arrived at my doorstep with the flywheel pretty much hanging out of the box).

Anyways, in the B5 S4 section the B7 RS4 pressure plate has received a lot of attention and praise. It's supposed to be more durable than the B5 RS4 pressure plate (metal SAC vs. plastic), and have a higher clamping load. Not to mention the clutch kit (LUK 02050) is only $144 shipped from Rock Auto.
JHM sells a kit with aluminum flywheel utilizing the B7 RS4 pressure plate and unknown clutch disk for the 1.8T for a whopping $750 (sale price). My goal is to end up with a steel flywheel and spend less than $750.

zillarob seems to be the guy pushing modification of B5 S4 flywheel to fit B7 RS4 pressure plate:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post10764523

So here I am, starting an open discussion about fitting the B7 RS4 pressure plate and maybe the B7 RS4 clutch disk into a 1.8T, while using an ECS Tuning RA4 flywheel. If I have to buy a B5 S4 clutch kit to scavenge its clutch disk because the B7 RS4 clutch disk won't work, so be it.

I've got my old stock clutch setup and flywheel that I can use as a reference for stack height.

My current thoughts/plans:
1) Purchase B7 RS4 clutch kit
2) Make dowel pins that transition from 10mm to 6mm, to fit in the RA4 FW holes but slide through the B7 RS4 pressure plate holes (per Scotty @ Advanced Automation)
3) Trim/drill RA4 FW steps to clear the rivets on B7 RS4 pressure plate
4) Turn RA4 FW down by about 1mm to give a fresh friction surface (per zillarob)
5) Shim the pressure plate off of FW with 1mm thick shims (per zillarob)
6) See if B7 RS4 clutch disk and TOB (throw-out bearing) can be used by comparing stack height to stock 1.8T clutch/flywheel/TOB

What do you think?

[redline380]

I've thought about adapting mine, but from all the research I have done, it simply isn't worth it. If I need to up my clutch game in the future, I think I will just see if an AMD s4 clutch will work, and I would expect it to work just fine.

[MetalMan]

I've thought about adapting mine, but from all the research I have done, it simply isn't worth it. If I need to up my clutch game in the future, I think I will just see if an AMD s4 clutch will work, and I would expect it to work just fine.

This one I'm assuming?
http://www.fastaudi.com/#!store/cwtu...egory=15378958
Looks like direct replacement for any B5 S4 clutch, so would probably work on the 1.8T with RA4 flywheel. But $725, ouch!! That doesn't include the $300+ flywheel. At that point I'd rather spend an extra $25 and get the JHM kit with flywheel.

[GOODBYNAAIR]

looking forward to see how this goes as I have a CM and they are not known for a long life, this may be a good option down the road. hope you find any missing peices, nice research so far

[walky_talky20]

Whilst I have nothing to add, I am watching this thread.

I'm currently rocking a free B6 OEM clutch kit with a DIY ghetto resurface, and a new $75 disc. I put that in 100k miles ago and the throwout bearing is starting to whine on engagement. When I go in to replace it, I would really like to go with B7 RS4 stuffs. Mostly because RS4 bits would look really good in my signature. But also because I hate heavy aftermarket clutch feel and may want to do a bigger turbo someday. B7 RS4 kit with B5 S4 over-center spring should feel very OEM.

The cheapskate in me is really liking the used, common flywheel and Rock Auto clutch kit. I'm all over that.

[zillarob]

Looks like you have the right idea.

This fw? https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_A4...wheel/ES12085/

Looks like all you will need to do to fit the b7rs4 clutch on is:
1 Drill the dowel holes in the pp to 10mm. (iirc, I used a 25/64 drill bit)
2 Set the preload for the step.

The preload will be the tougher of the 2. I mock it up and cycle them in the press to make sure I only get a click or 2 out of the sac.
Dont want it too tight, and too loose is going to burn through the sac and just be a waste.

That fw looks like it is already cut to clear the dowel things on the pp.

Should be a sweet setup!

[MetalMan]

looking forward to see how this goes as I have a CM and they are not known for a long life, this may be a good option down the road. hope you find any missing peices, nice research so far

Whilst I have nothing to add, I am watching this thread.

I'm currently rocking a free B6 OEM clutch kit with a DIY ghetto resurface, and a new $75 disc. I put that in 100k miles ago and the throwout bearing is starting to whine on engagement. When I go in to replace it, I would really like to go with B7 RS4 stuffs. Mostly because RS4 bits would look really good in my signature. But also because I hate heavy aftermarket clutch feel and may want to do a bigger turbo someday. B7 RS4 kit with B5 S4 over-center spring should feel very OEM.

The cheapskate in me is really liking the used, common flywheel and Rock Auto clutch kit. I'm all over that.

Definitely hoping to make this a publicly-available option for people like us.

Looks like you have the right idea.

This fw? https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_A4...wheel/ES12085/

Looks like all you will need to do to fit the b7rs4 clutch on is:
1 Drill the dowel holes in the pp to 10mm. (iirc, I used a 25/64 drill bit)
2 Set the preload for the step.

The preload will be the tougher of the 2. I mock it up and cycle them in the press to make sure I only get a click or 2 out of the sac.
Dont want it too tight, and too loose is going to burn through the sac and just be a waste.

That fw looks like it is already cut to clear the dowel things on the pp.

Should be a sweet setup!

Really appreciate you jumping in here!
That's the flywheel, yes.

Do you have any comments on using the B7 RS4 clutch disc? This is one bit of information I can't seem to find.

Being an A4 guy I wasn't familiar with the SAC adjustment/operation. Just read up a little on it and think it's starting to make some sense.
Ideally to adjust SAC, you use a press with the pressure plate supported in the appropriate fashion. These pages appear to detail it well:
http://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a4_...ressure_plate/
http://s4mods.com/2015/12/04/b5-s4rs...sac-mechanism/

And there appears to be a good BMW DIY on resetting the SAC without a press:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=629140

So you think that we can get away without removing material from the flywheel friction surface or shimming the PP off the flywheel, just through SAC adjustment? That would be sweet.

For the pressure plate dowel pins I think I trust my ability to cut a step-down 10mm-->6mm pin (lathe) instead of drilling out the pressure plate to accept 10mm pins.

Awesome to hear you think the cut-outs in the FW will fit around the PP straps/rivets. Will of course verify if/when I acquire the clutch.

Thanks again!

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

Following. Interested to see what you come up with.

Jason

[walky_talky20]

^lol. ECS will be selling "B7 RA4" flywheels pretty soon.

[zillarob]

^lol. ECS will be selling "B7 RA4" flywheels pretty soon.

If they did it at that price, I think it would be the only fw people bought. Same for the b5s4.
All they would have to do is cut the step 2mm higher so should be the same.
They could also just sell a set of 2mm laser cut shims and stepped dowels.

Definitely hoping to make this a publicly-available option for people like us.



Really appreciate you jumping in here!
That's the flywheel, yes.

Do you have any comments on using the B7 RS4 clutch disc? This is one bit of information I can't seem to find.

Being an A4 guy I wasn't familiar with the SAC adjustment/operation. Just read up a little on it and think it's starting to make some sense.
Ideally to adjust SAC, you use a press with the pressure plate supported in the appropriate fashion. These pages appear to detail it well:
http://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a4_...ressure_plate/
http://s4mods.com/2015/12/04/b5-s4rs...sac-mechanism/

And there appears to be a good BMW DIY on resetting the SAC without a press:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=629140

So you think that we can get away without removing material from the flywheel friction surface or shimming the PP off the flywheel, just through SAC adjustment? That would be sweet.

For the pressure plate dowel pins I think I trust my ability to cut a step-down 10mm-->6mm pin (lathe) instead of drilling out the pressure plate to accept 10mm pins.

Awesome to hear you think the cut-outs in the FW will fit around the PP straps/rivets. Will of course verify if/when I acquire the clutch.

Thanks again!

The stg3 s4 guys beat the shit out of b5rs4 clutches for years. Some were able to beat them into submission, but fine for most people.
I would imagine the b7rs4 and its metal sac would be a step up from that.

What disk you run comes down to torque and how you drive the car.
If you know how to drive and you arent going to be launcing off the antilag at every stoplight, the oem disk is prob your best bet.
If you are a teenager that is going to beat the piss out of it, grab a 6puck ceramic disk from clutchnet.
It will drive like shit, but handle all the abuse you throw at it.

You will have to remove material from the friction surface of the fw, or use spacers to make the step bigger.
b5 is like 7 or 7.5mm, b7 is 9 or 9.5. Been a while, its a 2mm difference though.
The sac adjusts the opposite way of what we need, so no bueno there.

If you have access to a lathe, that will work fine.

Ya, those cutouts are plenty big to clear.

[Davdraco1]

Following. Interested to see what you come up with.

Jason

Don't steal any ideas now Jason.

[zillarob]

Its not stealing ideas, its a natural progression.

I think ttv is the only outfit that makes a steel fw for the b5s4 that uses a b7rs4 style clutch.
I dont see too many 1.8's, but does anybody offer this for you guys already?

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

Don't steal any ideas now Jason.

Don't plan on it. Our kit has been proven for many years. We've had customers put over 180K on a stage 2 B5 RS4 clutch disc and pressure plate making around 300whp which held up just fine. I think that speaks well for reliability.

Though the B7 RS4 pressure plate appears to have marginal improvements I don't think we'll be redesigning our flywheel on that concept alone.

Jason

[MetalMan]

The stg3 s4 guys beat the shit out of b5rs4 clutches for years. Some were able to beat them into submission, but fine for most people.
I would imagine the b7rs4 and its metal sac would be a step up from that.

What disk you run comes down to torque and how you drive the car.
If you know how to drive and you arent going to be launcing off the antilag at every stoplight, the oem disk is prob your best bet.
If you are a teenager that is going to beat the piss out of it, grab a 6puck ceramic disk from clutchnet.
It will drive like shit, but handle all the abuse you throw at it.

You will have to remove material from the friction surface of the fw, or use spacers to make the step bigger.
b5 is like 7 or 7.5mm, b7 is 9 or 9.5. Been a while, its a 2mm difference though.
The sac adjusts the opposite way of what we need, so no bueno there.

If you have access to a lathe, that will work fine.

Ya, those cutouts are plenty big to clear.

Thanks again for your input!

Currently running a Valeo single-mass conversion clutch/FW kit which is only a little stronger than the stock A4 clutch, so OEM clutch disk should be plenty for me.

If I may ask, is that 2mm step height difference related to the clutch disc thickness? i.e. will a B5 disc need 2mm shims and B7 disc 4mm shims?
Guess I'll have to see how the B7 RS4 clutch disk thickness will impact the stack height with FW appropriately shimmed (and then maybe come up with how much FW friction surface needs to be trimmed).

Its not stealing ideas, its a natural progression.

I think ttv is the only outfit that makes a steel fw for the b5s4 that uses a b7rs4 style clutch.
I dont see too many 1.8's, but does anybody offer this for you guys already?

JHM offers a clutch kit with aluminum FW which uses the B7 RS4 pressure plate and some disk options. It's $750 which isn't too bad at all, and they claim it doesn't chatter much... but in the end I hope to come out at less than $750 (+ shipping and $60 sales tax, so at least $840 total) and with a steel FW.

Some time ago I contacted TTV about any potential 240mm FW options for the 1.8T. Didn't sound like they had any for use with B5 S4/RS4 clutches, and Ben seemed hung up on the 6-speed vs. 5-speed as requiring a different FW even though it should be the same for all 1.8T (I think). He mentioned they're coming out with their own 240mm clutch/FW kit in the future but I was/am hung up on OEM replacement clutch options.

[M-Hood]

Thanks again for your input!

Currently running a Valeo single-mass conversion clutch/FW kit which is only a little stronger than the stock A4 clutch, so OEM clutch disk should be plenty for me.

If I may ask, is that 2mm step height difference related to the clutch disc thickness? i.e. will a B5 disc need 2mm shims and B7 disc 4mm shims?
Guess I'll have to see how the B7 RS4 clutch disk thickness will impact the stack height with FW appropriately shimmed (and then maybe come up with how much FW friction surface needs to be trimmed).



JHM offers a clutch kit with aluminum FW which uses the B7 RS4 pressure plate and some disk options. It's $750 which isn't too bad at all, and they claim it doesn't chatter much... but in the end I hope to come out at less than $750 (+ shipping and $60 sales tax, so at least $840 total) and with a steel FW.

Some time ago I contacted TTV about any potential 240mm FW options for the 1.8T. Didn't sound like they had any for use with B5 S4/RS4 clutches, and Ben seemed hung up on the 6-speed vs. 5-speed as requiring a different FW even though it should be the same for all 1.8T (I think). He mentioned they're coming out with their own 240mm clutch/FW kit in the future but I was/am hung up on OEM replacement clutch options.

Basically the step from the friction part of the flywheel to the top lip where the PP sits is 2mm larger on the B7 RS4 setup, so you have to take 2mm of material off the friction area of the flywheel or 2mm off the friction plate on the PP, problem with spacing the PP up off the flywheel is the fact that you have now made the over all stack height 2mm taller.

[Jake@JHM]

Or you could buy our proven kit while it is on sale, and have a warranty

[MetalMan]

Or you could buy our proven kit while it is on sale, and have a warranty

I just mentioned the JHM offering in my previous post, quoted below for convenience:

JHM offers a clutch kit with aluminum FW which uses the B7 RS4 pressure plate and some disk options. It's $750 which isn't too bad at all... but in the end I hope to come out at less than $750 (+ shipping and $60 sales tax, so at least $840 total) and with a steel FW.

JHM clutch will run me at least $840 total even at the sales price, and it has an aluminum flywheel while I want steel.

So far I have $210 into lightly used steel FW, B7 RS4 clutch is $144 shipped, dowel pins and FW machining might be $200 tops. So about $550 total. Even if I have to buy a new B5 S4 clutch kit ($212 shipped) and scavenge its clutch disk, then I'm still at only about $765 and with a steel flywheel.

Basically the step from the friction part of the flywheel to the top lip where the PP sits is 2mm larger on the B7 RS4 setup, so you have to take 2mm of material off the friction area of the flywheel or 2mm off the friction plate on the PP, problem with spacing the PP up off the flywheel is the fact that you have now made the over all stack height 2mm taller.

Understood, which is why I will be comparing stack height to my old stock DMF/clutch. Can our transmissions/slave cylinders accept an additional 2mm stack height? Will it cause the clutch to not engage, or change the pedal's engagement position, etc.?

[Avant Nate]

In case you just want the disc, and not the whole S4 pressure plate the part number is 078141031SX

[walky_talky20]

Is it decided that the B7 RS4 disc won't work alongside it's matching pressure plate? The B5 S4 and B7 RS4 disc look pretty similar to me:

B5 S4 - 078141031S


B7 RS4 - 079141031A


And the flip-side:

B5 S4:


B7 RS4:

[MetalMan]

In case you just want the disc, and not the whole S4 pressure plate the part number is 078141031SX

Thanks, but I'm not sure how useful this is. Rock Auto has the full LUK cutch kit for $212 shipped. I can't find the clutch disk alone (078141031SX) anywhere for less than $222 (including core charge). So in that case it's still cheaper to buy the whole clutch kit.

Walky - that's pretty much what I'm interested in knowing too. zillarob mentioned that the B7 RS4 disc is about 2mm thicker than the B5 S4 disc, but that's all the info I have to share.

[Avant Nate]

Thanks, but I'm not sure how useful this is. Rock Auto has the full LUK cutch kit for $212 shipped. I can't find the clutch disk alone (078141031SX) anywhere for less than $222 (including core charge). So in that case it's still cheaper to buy the whole clutch kit.

Walky - that's pretty much what I'm interested in knowing too. zillarob mentioned that the B7 RS4 disc is about 2mm thicker than the B5 S4 disc, but that's all the info I have to share.

I know, its dumb. But 034 used to sell the clutch disk for $100, now out of stock at $165. https://store.034motorsport.com/clut...oe-s4-rs4.html
If you have Amazon Prime, S4 Luk $210 shipped http://www.amazon.com/LuK-02-045-Clu.../dp/B000CICYRM

[MetalMan]

I know, its dumb. But 034 used to sell the clutch disk for $100, now out of stock at $165. https://store.034motorsport.com/clut...oe-s4-rs4.html
If you have Amazon Prime, S4 Luk $210 shipped http://www.amazon.com/LuK-02-045-Clu.../dp/B000CICYRM

Now we're getting somewhere; too bad 034 is showing it out of stock.
With Amazon I have to pay 8% sales tax so Rock Auto is still $15 cheaper (this won't be the case for everyone of course).

[zillarob]

The $135 rockauto luk repset comes with a disk.

Its a combination of disk thickness and pp setup that dictates the step height.
OEM B7 and B5 disks are the same thickness. The difference is in the pp.

The 2mm stack height change from the spacer method is not an issue. There is quite a bit of wiggle room on this part.
There is very little wiggle room on the step height though, so get this part right.

Some of you guys are overthinking this.
Buy the rockauto luk repset
Figure out what method of adjusting the step you want to use. Cut friction surface, washers, or a combo of both.
Figure out how you want to address the dowels. Drill the holes in the pp bigger, or make the ones in the fw smaller.
Ive done a few of them, it really is just that easy.

[walky_talky20]

@Metal: From Zillarob's comments here and his thread (linked in first post), it looks like the B7 RS4 disc is direct fit. The B5 S4 disc would actually need modification to work with the B7 RS4 pressure plate. They are basically identical except the B5 disc has a clearance issue with the the pressure plate. Good stuff.

I'd like to hear more about how to set the preload properly. Bench testing the SAC mechanism, etc.

[zillarob]

Yeah, that b5 vs b7 thing bit me.
Figured Id just reface an old b5 disk instead of the new b7 disk.
Whats another tranny pull, right

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post10634040

[zillarob]

Checking if you have the step right is pretty easy because of the sac.
I aint saying this is right, but has always worked for me.

Reset the sac. There will be a laser etched line across the cover and one of the springy gizmos. As far as it will go will work fine also.
Bolt the fw, disk, and pp together and tighten the bolts as you would if installing.
Toss it in the press and push the fingers down until they kiss the stop ring at the bottom.

I look for it to click just once or twice with a full stroke so I know it is not too tight, and not wasting any of the adjustment.

If the sac does not budge, its too tight and needs more shim or material removed from the friction surface.
If it jumps a bunch, close it up a little. It would prob be fine this way, but maybe a shorter life because of the wasted adjustment.

Its been a while since I played with one, but this is what I recall from the disks.

Iirc, the oem disks are like 12-13mm thick when you measure them.
They will compress as the pp clamps down on them because of the marcel springs sandwiched between the facings.
These marcels are good things and you really want them if you care about drivability.

Most of the aftermarket disks are ~8mm thick.
These usually just have the facings/pucks riveted to the clutch without the marcels and are often on/off feeling setups.
They are streetable, but I would hate to drive one on the daily.

So, an aftermarket disk is a little thinner? Yes, a 2mm thinner disk would negate having to add 2mm to the step.
I have not put one together like this because it will be a shitty driving racekar clutch, but the math checks out.

[walky_talky20]

Thank you very much for sharing those details and your experience with us, zillarob!

[MetalMan]

Agreed, zillarob this is IMMENSELY useful information. I don't suppose you have a "Donate" link? (for the record walky, I think you need one too).

It's already been an expensive month for me, 2015 overall as well, but will see if I can sneak in another $144 for the clutch.

[walky_talky20]

I don't suppose you have a "Donate" link? (for the record walky, I think you need one too).

Personally, I'm not sure that's in the spirit of the community. It's probably against the rules somehow, too. In either case, I don't want to be "that guy" with the paypal link in his signature. I feel it would come of as presumptuous. Also, I don't think it would flow very well with my current signature: "Don't listen this guy, he's not even a mechanic...but if you DID, here's my paypal."

[MetalMan]

Very true! Other than forums I help out guys locally fairly often, and "in the spirit of the community" usually expect nothing in return. Just helped out a B6 guy by phone/text/in-person with installation of a F21 kit over the last week for example... he's normally the bring-car-to-mechanic-and-not-DIY type. I suppose he did feed me, though

But you did rewrite your signature in a very articulate manner!

On a more topic-related note, B7 RS4 clutch is now on order. Expected delivery date is December 22.

[redline380]

Off topic response- Generally when I get rid of parts locally, I expect a six pack of something. I don't get rid of big stuff worth more because I want to keep it, but the rest of the stuff you might as well gift it. I gave a guy a engine cover once in this manor and he said I restored his faith in humanity; no joke. He said he was almost ready to drive 2 hours to pay $100 for one. And I'm all- go ahead, just have it. I'm never going to use it. Dude and I are still Audi buddies and have exchanged lots of parts. He practically gave me the suspension that is in my avant currently. He also got my spare celebration wheel once. Its a back and forth.


On topic response- I am really interested to find out if the b7 rs4 PP will work, but I ask you; if you can get it to work, which disc would you run?

[walky_talky20]

Off topic: Redline, that is an inspirational story. Restoring faith in humanity, etc. Good stuff. Beer is such a great trade item for those kind of things, makes me wish I drank the stuff. ;)

On topic: For myself, I would definitely want to use the B7 OEM disc. It already comes with the kit, and I want the OEM-y-ist feel possible.

[redline380]

On topic: For myself, I would definitely want to use the B7 OEM disc. It already comes with the kit, and I want the OEM-y-ist feel possible.

Is that a viable option though?

[walky_talky20]

Seems like yes. Based on zillarob's information, they are the same dimensions - but the B5 disc 'hub' fouls the B7 RS4 pressure plate slightly and must be ground down. The B7 is direct fit.

[zillarob]

If you could paypal beer, Id def have a link in my sig

Id not hesitate to run the oem b7 disk for everything up through a stg3 b5s4 (~425wtq) if driven like a sane person.
Not into ouija boards or witchcraft, so no idea what that would translate to at the crank

Antilag is where I might start thinking about running a different disk to cope with the abuse.
If I were putting an s4 together for some kid that was just going to go out and beat it, prob go with a 6 or 8 puck ceramic.
The ceramic disks, especially the ones without the marcels, are terrible to drive on the daily. You can do it, but most people I know would be annoyed with the on/off engagement.

I havent played with any hotrodded 1.8s, but guessing they dont quite make the same wtq as the 2.7 with 2 less cylinders.
Wouldnt surprise me if the oem b7 disk would work fine for all but the most insane builds. Maybe even with antilag.

Found a pic I had of the marcels if some of you guys havent seen them before.



These are what give you that inch or so of pedal from the clutch starting to engage, to fully engaged.
Without the marcels, the pp is either on the disk, or not. It is very difficult to modulate slippage with only 1/4" or so of pedal travel separating "just barely" and "whiplash"

[MetalMan]

If you could paypal beer, Id def have a link in my sig

That's the idea!

Id not hesitate to run the oem b7 disk for everything up through a stg3 b5s4 (~425wtq) if driven like a sane person.
Not into ouija boards or witchcraft, so no idea what that would translate to at the crank

Antilag is where I might start thinking about running a different disk to cope with the abuse.
If I were putting an s4 together for some kid that was just going to go out and beat it, prob go with a 6 or 8 puck ceramic.
The ceramic disks, especially the ones without the marcels, are terrible to drive on the daily. You can do it, but most people I know would be annoyed with the on/off engagement.

I havent played with any hotrodded 1.8s, but guessing they dont quite make the same wtq as the 2.7 with 2 less cylinders.
Wouldnt surprise me if the oem b7 disk would work fine for all but the most insane builds. Maybe even with antilag.

Found a pic I had of the marcels if some of you guys havent seen them before.

These are what give you that inch or so of pedal from the clutch starting to engage, to fully engaged.
Without the marcels, the pp is either on the disk, or not. It is very difficult to modulate slippage with only 1/4" or so of pedal travel separating "just barely" and "whiplash"

Great info here
In my case, I ought to be making roughly 1/2 the power of a 2.7T with F21BT on E85. This is DD duty, no anti-lag or NLS, only very mild launching if any at all. Sounds like this should fit the bill.

So, Rock Auto is FAST. Ordered the clutch a day ago, and now it's on a FedEx truck for delivery. WOW.

Last night I cleaned up the RA4 flywheel a bit with a mild metal wire wheel (it had some surface rust due to a previous bad storage choice I made). Cleaned up nicely and I'm really happy about that.

Today I used pin gauges to size the hole for dowel pins, since for whatever reason my [used] flywheel didn't come with any dowel pins. Interestingly the holes appear to measure out at about 0.309-0.310" for a light interference fit. It's tough to get a solid measurement because the holes appear tapered or slightly stepped and I don't want to force in the gauge pins. I do know that 0.313" doesn't start into the hole, so I'm wondering if these holes are supposed to be 5/16" (0.3125", 7.94mm) or what.

[zillarob]

Sounds like the perfect setup for you

This valeo clutch these guys are talking about here http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11264063
Is this just the box stock single mass coversion? If it is, for ~$125 more, the ecs ra4 fw and the b7rs4 kit is a fk'n no brainer.
Prob a godzilla clutch compared to the valeo, and still get more miles out of it due to the sac

Run a straight edge across the friction surface of the fw to make sure it is flat.
You said lightly used so prob good, but they wear into kind of a bowl shape with use.

[MetalMan]

Valeo clutch is just a single mass flywheel conversion with clutch kit. It costs $364 on Amazon right now (I paid $345 2 years ago).
RA4 flywheel is normally $400 new, on sale right now for $340 (this sale is only during this holiday time).
$144 for B7 RS4 clutch kit.

So you're right it's about $120 more right now ($180 more weeks after that sale ends), for a theoretically better clutch setup. Obviously the Valeo is more plug-and-play and doesn't have a SAC to worry about.

I sourced some 5/16" dowel pins and will see how those might work out. 6mm pressure plate hole is barely smaller than 5/16" so I might save time and just drill out those pressure plate holes.

[MetalMan]

Last night I took some time to gather measurements on the B7 RS4 clutch shenanigans.

First things first: stack height.
I kept my old stock clutch/DMFW/TOB. Stack height from crank-mating face of FW to top of TOB was ~106mm (measured without clutch disc installed).
RA4 FW with B7 RS4 PP and included TOB was ~103mm (again clutch disk was excluded).
These measurements were taken with a ruler, and its edge doesn't start at 0... So while these measurements aren't exact the important thing is the 3mm stack height difference (where the B7 RS4 & RA4 will need spacing added).

To me that means shims alone should be used to space the PP off of the FW, instead of trimming the FW friction surface to increase step height.
Also I checked for flatness/concavity of the friction surface and to my semi-trained eye it looks flat.
Therefore this sounds like more $$$ saved. But now I have the task of sourcing shims, and getting the stack height adjustment "just right" [per zillarob above].

To that end, last night I also checked to see if my current 3-jaw puller is big enough to use like this:


And it appears it is. Main reason for this is unavailability of a press while I work on the clutch stuff.
Next step is to figure out what to use to even press down on the PP fingers. To make something like in that picture I would need ~2.5" OD and if a section were to fit inside the PP fingers ID that that diameter should be ~1-15/16".

Lastly: dowel pins. It does look like the RA4 FW I have will accept 5/16" dowel pins with an interference fit (3/8" depth). As noted by zillarob the B7 RS4 PP dowel pin holes are 6mm. BUT: they are actually not holes; they are slots. So if I drilled out these slots to 5/16", it's possible for them to be misaligned. Due to this I will attempt to turn the pins down to 0.235" on a lathe... unless it turns out the pins are too hard of a steel to do this in a timely fashion.

[MetalMan]

I wanted to post this last night, but apparently the moment before I clicked "Post" the server went down (looks like they migrated to new servers). Then all of today I couldn't log in, until now... don't know how I survived without access to AZ!!

And we all know this thread will be worthless without pics [from me].

Unboxing the LUK B7 RS4 clutch kit:


Yesterday had a chance to make the dowel pins. Their original size is 5/16" diameter X 1.25" long. I trimmed them down so that the 5/16" dia section is only 3/8" long, and the remainder shaft diameter is 0.235" (one pin is 0.235", another 0.233", and the last is 0.225"... slight machining mistake).
Then I hammered them into the flywheel, no way they will loosen.




And then threw on the pressure plate for fitment:





There is a small amount of play in the pressure plate's position, maybe 0.010". That's good enough for me.

Next up is the aluminum block which will be used to compress the pressure plate. It's minimum OD is 2.5" (rough size of throwout bearing OD), with a shoulder that's 1-15/16" dia X .12". Then it will be drilled slightly on the other end to help center the 3-jaw puller.



Lastly, today I have 8mm I.D. shims arriving. They are 0.3mm thick each, and I bought 50 of them (from McMaster-Carr). If the appropriate spacing is 2mm then I'll likely use 7 shims per bolt [2.1mm]. Hopefully I won't need more than 2.4mm spacing total!