Required mods for k04'd 1.8t?

[volkswagensRus]

So I'm definitely getting another turbo... and i"m juggling all kinds of ideas around in my head. Faster is always better, but good fuel economy and reliability are important also. I'm either going w/ a k04-15 setup or a Frankenturbo. A solid flat 13-second car would be a blast.

I'm going w/ a 3" turbo back, some form of intake (sound mod.. I know), 008 diverter valve, GIAC tuning, and a turbo. Then handling/body mods.

What is REQUIRED to run a k04 turbo? Would I absolutely need injectors to take full use of the k04?

Thank you,
Matt

[DarthWinja]

I have an F21 quattro 5sp. You'll need bigger injectors (I have 550s), a bigger intercooler (running apikol side mount), and of course you'll need an exhaust upgrade. Mine is catless. I forgot the name of the intake but it's basically the same as the Apr carbonio, just made of plastic instead of CF...you'll want a more free flowing intake as well. A bigger fuel pump will be required for your shiney new injectors. Then there's all the mounts, not necessary but why wouldn't you?

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[volkswagensRus]

Oil/coolant lines are direct plug and play w/ the turbo right? As long as it's a k04-15 since my motor is longitudinal? If I need a bigger IC I'd rather just get a beefier SMIC and not go FMIC like you also did. What are the injectors called, so I can start researching them?

[Avant Nate]

What you need to run a K04 turbo
1) K04 turbo
2) tune, if you want more than stock psi.
Injectors depend on the tune, giac makes a K04 5bar FPR tune, which uses stock injectors.

[melomandn]

Ko4 is not worth the money, at minimum go with a frankenturbo

[volkswagensRus]

I'm going for reliable + fun, not necessarily an all out race car. Thats why I'm sticking w/ k04-15 or frankenturbo, If you know of any other turbos that are similar in price that produce more fun but maintain economy and reliability, I'm all ears.

Also, I'm not opposed to getting some Bosch 550cc injectors for the whopping ~$200 if that will maximize my setup.

[MetalMan]

Any particular reason why you're set on a GIAC tune? GIAC can't work with 550cc injectors.
Motoza can custom tune your car with whatever hardware you pick. They're having a sale on their K04 or Hybrid K04 (like FrankenTurbo) tune right now for only $440.

Bigger intercooler is a must. Stock/original clutch likely won't be enough.
Since you don't already have a K04, FrankenTurbo would be a great choice.

[BlackLock_A4]

Probably a Magnaflow 14815 muffler...

Feel me?

[redline380]

I'm either going w/ a k04-15 setup or a Frankenturbo......A solid flat 13-second car would be a blast.

The lolz!

You'll have to try harder and dig deeper (into your pockets, that is) to get 13.0 out of your car.

Good luck. And BTW, use the search button. This could possibly be the most covered topic on this sub-forum.

[Davdraco1]

The FTG Ko4-15xl is a turbo to look into. I think it's 580$ and you would want to get new oil and water lines. The turbos compressor wheel is damn near the same size as a gt28. It's uses an rs6 sized turbine wheel and larger WG hole. I emailed back and forth with the owner awhile ago. It fits right where the stock one would. I would recomend a higher flowing exhaust manifold wether it be the log style or tubular. Injectors, tune, fuel pump, careless exhaust. The intakes on our cars are good for about 300 bhp. I wouldn't waste money on that. You'll want to see if the tune calls for a larger diameter MAF housing wether it's be 2.75 or 3 in. I would email FTG and talk with him.

[coolgraymemo]

The lolz!

You'll have to try harder and dig deeper (into your pockets, that is) to get 13.0 out of your car.

x2

Good luck. And BTW, use the search button. This could possibly be the most covered topic on this sub-forum.

x2




=4

[Davdraco1]

My stock clutch on a 22psi tune with stock turbo slipped. A clutch is a definite. And if you want a 13sec car, you'll need way more power, and a much stronger clutch. Stage 3 at a minimum.

[redline380]

x2



x2




=4

X2= 8

[volkswagensRus]

Any particular reason why you're set on a GIAC tune? GIAC can't work with 550cc injectors.
Motoza can custom tune your car with whatever hardware you pick. They're having a sale on their K04 or Hybrid K04 (like FrankenTurbo) tune right now for only $440.

Bigger intercooler is a must. Stock/original clutch likely won't be enough.
Since you don't already have a K04, FrankenTurbo would be a great choice.

I just like the aggressive GIAC dyno's that I've seen. They are one of, if not the most, competitive 1.8t tuner on the market in my experience. Also I've never heard that GIAC can't tune for 550cc injectors??? Wtf?

Probably a Magnaflow 14815 muffler...

Feel me?

Lol sorry man I've got two Borla mufflers laying around if I need one after the 3" TBE. But thank you.

The lolz!

You'll have to try harder and dig deeper (into your pockets, that is) to get 13.0 out of your car.

Good luck. And BTW, use the search button. This could possibly be the most covered topic on this sub-forum.

250-270whp would take me damn near a 13... 300whp would be a 13.0 or faster if proper driver mod. From what I've seen, FT's can make 300whp.

The FTG Ko4-15xl is a turbo to look into. I think it's 580$ and you would want to get new oil and water lines. The turbos compressor wheel is damn near the same size as a gt28. It's uses an rs6 sized turbine wheel and larger WG hole. I emailed back and forth with the owner awhile ago. It fits right where the stock one would. I would recomend a higher flowing exhaust manifold wether it be the log style or tubular. Injectors, tune, fuel pump, careless exhaust. The intakes on our cars are good for about 300 bhp. I wouldn't waste money on that. You'll want to see if the tune calls for a larger diameter MAF housing wether it's be 2.75 or 3 in. I would email FTG and talk with him.

Cool! I've never heard of the FTG k04-15xl, thank you much! Looking into that right now.

My stock clutch on a 22psi tune with stock turbo slipped. A clutch is a definite. And if you want a 13sec car, you'll need way more power, and a much stronger clutch. Stage 3 at a minimum.

Well fuck. Prior owner had a brand new OEM clutch just installed.

[Avant Nate]

300 whp FT? How much nitrous?

[redline380]

250-270whp would take me damn near a 13... 300whp would be a 13.0 or faster if proper driver mod. From what I've seen, FT's can make 300whp.

Cite you source. Preference will be given to first-hand experience.


Okay, I'll stop giving you the go around. What I am getting at here is that all too often, newbs come on here expecting this, expecting that, my neighbor can go this fast with his stage 2352345 whatever, so I can easily get XXXawhp to go 9.9 seconds in the quarter.

I can make up numbers all day long, but don't get your hopes up. First, mod the car. Second, get it running properly. If it ain't enough for you, mod additionally.

B5 A4's are not fast cars. Everyone here knows it. They can be made to be quick, but there are a small handful of cars that are truly fast. Now, you won't need an actual fast a4 to get to 13's, and a frankenturbo might actually get you in the 13's, but you won't be 13 dead. If that is your goal, you are quite literally blowing hot air because that's all that will be coming out of your frankenturbo when it is cranked up high enough to get close to 13 flat.

Now, if you want to talk a 13 flat car, we can do that. But it will require a real sized turbo. No knock the FT's here, but they aren't meant to get you to racecar status.

OP, how old are you?

[redline380]

I just like the aggressive GIAC dyno's that I've seen. They are one of, if not the most, competitive 1.8t tuner on the market in my experience. Also I've never heard that GIAC can't tune for 550cc injectors??? Wtf?

You have alot to learn. As I noted earlier, read through some build threads. There are plenty of good ones on here that show what is needed.

The best tune is a custom one. Those off the shelf tunes are meant sell, and to sell they need them to work around a few differences. Motoza, as mentioned, is about as custom as you will get without getting on the rollers.

Been awhile since we've had a good newb thread around here

[volkswagensRus]

300 whp FT? How much nitrous?

lol. Didn't notice any nitrous in the builds.

Cite you source. Preference will be given to first-hand experience.


Okay, I'll stop giving you the go around. What I am getting at here is that all too often, newbs come on here expecting this, expecting that, my neighbor can go this fast with his stage 2352345 whatever, so I can easily get XXXawhp to go 9.9 seconds in the quarter.

I can make up numbers all day long, but don't get your hopes up. First, mod the car. Second, get it running properly. If it ain't enough for you, mod additionally.

B5 A4's are not fast cars. Everyone here knows it. They can be made to be quick, but there are a small handful of cars that are truly fast. Now, you won't need an actual fast a4 to get to 13's, and a frankenturbo might actually get you in the 13's, but you won't be 13 dead. If that is your goal, you are quite literally blowing hot air because that's all that will be coming out of your frankenturbo when it is cranked up high enough to get close to 13 flat.

Now, if you want to talk a 13 flat car, we can do that. But it will require a real sized turbo. No knock the FT's here, but they aren't meant to get you to racecar status.

OP, how old are you?

I don't mean for my B5 to be "fast"... just pleasantly quick. A fun daily driver, if you will. Anywhere in the 13's is a fun daily driver to me... the faster is always better, of course.

I'm not discounting your information, I rather appreciate it.

OP is a 28 year old engineer who's owned 11 second cars ranging from z51's, 5.0's, GST's etc.

So I'm looking at that FTG k04-15xl... RS4 CHRA... 56mm cold side, 50mm hotside... seems pretty stout. Still have more research to do, but FTG advertises 275whp with the turbo.

[volkswagensRus]

You have alot to learn. As I noted earlier, read through some build threads. There are plenty of good ones on here that show what is needed.

The best tune is a custom one. Those off the shelf tunes are meant sell, and to sell they need them to work around a few differences. Motoza, as mentioned, is about as custom as you will get without getting on the rollers.

Been awhile since we've had a good newb thread around here

Fair enough, I'll research Motoza. Second Audi I've owned (first stayed stock), owned I think 4 Volkswagens. Never heard of Motoza. Thank you.

[redline380]

I don't mean for my B5 to be "fast"... just pleasantly quick. A fun daily driver, if you will. Anywhere in the 13's is a fun daily driver to me... the faster is always better, of course.

Enjoy. http://frankenturbo.com/new/F21L.html

Either that, or wait for a APR stage 3 kit to come up for sale used.

Now, like I said, check out some build thread. Mine located in my sig is decent, but a lot of info is left out too. You are better off checking out older ones. We can educate you all day long, but the best source of info is your own critical thoughts based on an analysis of what others have done. If there is anything ele you need to know, come back and ask.

And to reiterate, you WILL need a clutch. I can't get a clutch to not spin even on a simple stock turbo tune. I have no idea how some guys run larger turbos on it. And I might as well make my recommendation of an ECS RA4 kit for the clutch.

[Davdraco1]

That ko4 xl made that on fwd. I'm not sure what it will make on awd. I'm looking into for my car build. I don't know what other supporting mods where on that hp figure. Like everyone is saying, read, read, oh and read. Knowledge is money. Also, do all the maintenance first. 300hp is nothing if the car won start.

[GOODBYNAAIR]

The f21 is a fun car and motoza has great tunes for it but you will need a 2001 AWM car for motoza. Like they said search and then if you have other questions someone will most likely have an answer.

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[Avant Nate]

B6 with meth

[vwblackb5]

GIAC + K04-015 (supporting mods in my sig) is a great reliable combination.. still have mine on my B5 for 8+ yrs / 60k miles on setup now and still running strong. FWIW, had the K04 on my B5 (originally tiptronic) and blew the torque converter 20k miles in, decided to do a 5spd swap (cheaper than tiptronic rebuild) and went with new DMFW + South Bend Stage 2+ clutch and called it a day.

So you may be on borrowed time on your stock clutch if you decide not to upgrade. Ignore if you drive like a grandma

[vrmm]

I'm not sure I have much useful info, but I will add my opinion that you will not need a new fuel pump before you would need rods. I never did. I had my stock clutch for about 5 months at a little over 300whp before it blew up. I had never launched it. It blew up in third gear wot. It was like 25psi @4500 or something shitty like that. I was able to drive another 60miles somehow. This is what it was like when I took it off... Not saying you won't need one. Just that you can put it off for a while if need be.




I'm not sure how much exactly it costs to get a frankenturbo running, but i've heard a t25 is the way to go with whatever turbo fits your power goals. Otherwise it's a waste of money ;)

Avant Nate your graph is tiny and isn't linked to a larger image.??

[Davdraco1]

What specific t25 manifold and turbo would you use?

[Seerlah]

Treadstone T25 and EFR

[vrmm]

I don't know that. I just know that in the past when I have suggested going t3 to start out a few people shout out t25 spooling better and being more realistic. Seerlah being one of them. He would likely be able to expand if you talked to him. If it was me I would just get the cheapest t3 bottom mount manifold with any turbo that has a 400$ or less ots tune available(or talk to rockersteady/the Australian tuning dewd), injectors, intercooler(ebay would work great), and lines. If it'll fit in the stock location maybe you can use a stock downpipe and save some $$ or pay a muffler shop to adapt it if you're keeping the stock cat. Which you shouldn't, but if you have to...
All of that would take some research on your part as i've never went for anything less than 400whp so i'm not sure which corners you can cut. I'm sure there is a cheaper way to do it even if you get flange adapters for a turbo to use the stock manifold. Maybe make your own if you can. I don't believe me spending 10k+ was ever actually necessary to get where I am today. It was less time consuming though.

Or just go the k04 route. It's not going to be fast though. Perhaps fun..... For a while. But a waste of money none the less. I truly believe if you're going to start in on a larger turbo you should go for at least a 3071r.

[Seerlah]

It depends on goals. T25 spools faster, but won't flow as much on top as a T3 would. You pick and choose just as you would your turbine housing A/R. Same thing with manifolds. Log manifolds spool faster than tubular manifolds, but tubular manifolds outflow log style manifolds up top.

Example of why someone explained to me before, and it all has to do with velocity and then a choke point. Using a sipping straw and empty paper towel roll to make it simple. Blow through the straw and you feel that velocity on the other end. That is the example of the t25 and that velocity hitting the turbine wheel, spooling your turbo. Now blow through an empty paper towel roll and that velocity is no longer there, using the same amount of breath. That is the t3. Pretty extreme going from a sipping straw to empty paper towel, but point was understood using these two.

With that being said, I currently run a t3 logger right now. T3 tubular will be placed on soon (sitting at Poopies house). But I say t25 "efr". Big difference. That turbo is in a different league.

[vrmm]

There's a point where you need rods and that's when you start to get a decent amount of lag. You honestly don't need to replace anything besides the rods themselves. Reuse the bearings if they're within limits. My eagles were 250$ shipped. Then you have the 600bhp(due to pistons and.... fuel rail bore?) restraint to work with aside from tuning, injectors, fuel pump, and intercooler. All of which I bought twice. My only point is to think twice before you shell out the $$. I guess that's all the 'go bigger' talk you need, so carry on with your k04 stuff :)

[redline380]

I like where this thread is going. From k04, to t25/3 setups, to rods. Love it.

Also, please don't reuse engine bearings. ISIS loves reusing bearings. You want to be a terrorist? I didnt think so.

[vrmm]

Haha heyyyyy I have been reusing bearings for ages and have never spun one or had any repercussions :p They have a limit for a reason!

[redline380]

Haha heyyyyy I have been reusing bearings for ages and have never spun one or had any repercussions :p They have a limit for a reason!

When it is basically the most difficult part to replace on a car, and considering their relative "cheapness" I would replace them, within spec or not.

On the other hand, if you are opening up your motor so often that you inspect the bearings before any chance of wear, you need to build a more reliable engine!

[vrmm]

I don't disagree with replacing them. It is preventative but definitely not required. My original bearings were well away from being out of limits. I suspect without overrevving my engine via maestro @7650 with a stock head I would have never needed new bearings(which were technically good afterward :p, it was just 'preventative'). I don't think anyone one i've read on here has ever mentioned checking them. It's always replace. My point stands that if they're within limits they will be fine for a decent amount of time. You could sell the car before it was ever even a concern. Like 80k+-190k. You don't know unless you check. Have you pulled them and had them be out of limits? My current engine with 123k is barely outside of new.
Bearing issues i've seen on audizine are due to improper rod torque, inadequate oiling, or xxx human factor. I don't disagree that if you're there you shouldn't do it(which I personally don't), but i'm trying to make the possibility of a big'ish turbo 'cheap' for the OP. Which he didn't ask for, but he also didn't search too hard, so perhaps I am simplifying his future questions and expense.

[nynoah]

There's a point where you need rods and that's when you start to get a decent amount of lag. You honestly don't need to replace anything besides the rods themselves. Reuse the bearings if they're within limits. My eagles were 250$ shipped. Then you have the 600bhp(due to pistons and.... fuel rail bore?) restraint to work with aside from tuning, injectors, fuel pump, and intercooler. All of which I bought twice. My only point is to think twice before you shell out the $$. I guess that's all the 'go bigger' talk you need, so carry on with your k04 stuff :)

I would avoid reusing any form of rod bearings from two different sets of rods. While the bearings may still be inspec, they were broken in on a totally different set of rods before. So whats good on one set is not necessary the same for another.

[OverSpun]

Oil/coolant lines are direct plug and play w/ the turbo right? As long as it's a k04-15 since my motor is longitudinal? If I need a bigger IC I'd rather just get a beefier SMIC and not go FMIC like you also did. What are the injectors called, so I can start researching them?

Replace the oil lines with a new turbo. I did.

I have the following:

Frankenturbo F21
Bosch 440cc Green Giants
Modded stock intake box w/ 3" MAF
034's HFC
Milltek Exhaust (2.75")
Racetec FMIC
GIAC tuned.
Forge 007PA

edit: plan on a new clutch. My stock clutch hasn't died yet. I don't launch the car or beat on it but it's on its way out.

[vrmm]

Nynoah does have a point! I have used which ever bearings were both visually good and were within spec. I have always tried to keep them with the rod I pulled, but I know it hasn't always happened. That said I still haven't had issues with my 47 willys truck or my audi. Obviously it's best to get new bearings, but I know there are people out there who don't use new and don't run into issues. I'm guessing there are some who do have issues, but I haven't read anything about it.

[czum09]

Where's the like button for this thread??

I plan to go F21 on my A4.

[volkswagensRus]

Awesome replies guys. You've given me a lot to look into.

Just one thing; this FTG k04-15xl appears better than a standard k04-15, right? So while it may only give a little more whp than the k04-15, I'm sure spool characteristics would be better, better top end pull, and potentially better/similar mileage than stock when driving like grandma?

[GOODBYNAAIR]

well this thread is getting off little track. what is his budget? EFR T25 is sweet but not the same price/work as F21/ k04 car. this goes with doing rods ect do we know if he can do the work or does he need a shops help ect $$$$.

yes if we could all do it again we would have waited and skipped stg 2 tuning or a k04 and just went to a gt30 or whatever, but if wants a fun car right now and needs to drive it as DD. He will not have the down time for motor work ect.

this is mostly speculation on my part thats just what im getting from his point of view?

OP please confirm what you really want to do and what you really can do ect.

But good turbo talk !

edit

I have gotten 28 mpg on the highway on my GT28 when driving easy on a trip to NY