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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings eljay's Avatar
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    Water in spark plug wells? Plus a timing belt question

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    Well, I was hoping to change the valve cover gasket, but only got as far as removing the coils only to find them coated in what looks like dried water film. Then I looked inside the spark plug wells and they are all nasty. Not a single one is clean. :( There's no oil though.
    It appears to be water/corrosion type film. Before I remove the spark plugs, I'd like to clean the inside. Is there any recommended method? I guess I have to pick up some long picks or other narrow tools to get deep down there. Can I use a MAF cleaner? Or just shop towels until I get it all out?
    FYI, the car runs fine except for a small misfire on idle likely due to a vacuum leak. No codes.









    Also, when I removed the timing belt cover, I took a close look at the timing belt and found what appear to be two small tiny cracks. Should I be concerned about it? According to the previous owner, the timing belt service was done at 200k kms. The car now has 276k kms. I was hoping not having to do the timing belt job until 300k kms.




    p.s. I will be giving that valve cover a good scrub.
    Current: 2016 Audi A4 Allroad (in progress)
    Past: 2005 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Avant / 6-speed / Ultrasport - SOLD

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings egovreau's Avatar
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    Cracks in the timing belt are always a concern. It could be a less than good quality belt and is failing early. Why take the chance? I'd change it. I've had my near-miss with a failed TB on a 86 Celica. It jumped a tooth driving cross country. Had some serious detonation going on. Then sitting at idle it jumped another and quit. When I pulled the belt, it had split half way across the width of the belt. That was back when TBs ran only 60k miles and I had 66k on the car.

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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    I suspect that at some point the engine was steam cleaned. Thus the water in the spark plug wells.

    Change the timing belt. Don't wait.
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings eljay's Avatar
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    That's what I feared. :(
    It's the only family car in the winter, so it sucks that I just discovered it. I wish I checked a couple of months ago.
    Time to start reading those TB DIYs early.

    Yes, there are water spots on the valve cover too, so probably some cleaning took place and left moisture in the wells.

    Any clicky click tips on tools to use to clean this up around the spark plugs? And what type of a cleaner would work well?
    Current: 2016 Audi A4 Allroad (in progress)
    Past: 2005 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Avant / 6-speed / Ultrasport - SOLD

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings MacFady's Avatar
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    Where they/you having problems with your coils coming out? Just wondering why there looks to be RTV sealant in your pictures.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings eljay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacFady View Post
    Where they/you having problems with your coils coming out? Just wondering why there looks to be RTV sealant in your pictures.
    The red is just paint from the bottom of the red ECS coilpack boltdown cover. The coils came out just fine without issues.
    Current: 2016 Audi A4 Allroad (in progress)
    Past: 2005 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Avant / 6-speed / Ultrasport - SOLD

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings Seerlah's Avatar
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    Is that a Gates Racing belt?
    I hate it when my car acts like a little bitch, treating me like a bitch

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings walky_talky20's Avatar
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    ^It looks like it has a blue tinge, doesn't it?

    I will say that I just recently took my first Gates Racing belt out at 65k miles and it did not look very good. Some light cracking on the back side (like the photo) and more worrying, cracking at the base of the teeth. I could probably rip a tooth off. I plan to do a little report/thread about this. It may be related to using a manual tensioner. My new setup is another Gates Racing belt with the new "Litens" tensioner (automatic, but not hydro).
    ^Don't listen to this guy, he's not even a mechanic.
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  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings eljay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerlah View Post
    Is that a Gates Racing belt?
    Not sure, but it does have blue coating. The sides do not appear blue. On the part that is facing top now, I cannot see any markings, but those can be down below.

    The tensioner and water pump look quite shiny still and the accessory belt looks to be in perfect shape. No cracks whatsoever and good tension on it.
    How strong should the tension feel be on the timing belt? Should it have the same resistance feel as when you push down on a section of the accessory belt? The TB tension is certainly softer than my acc belt.

    So, am I really on borrowed time here with the belt or can I get a couple of weeks (a couple of hundred miles) on it, before I get everything organized for the service? I surely hope I don't discover anything else along the way or I might have as well bought a new engine! :)

    Here's another picture:

  10. #10
    Senior Member Three Rings crazyquik22023's Avatar
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    I'd change the belt ASAP if I was you. You probably could get a few hundred miles out of it but I wouldn't risk it. Also go OEM with the timing belt.

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings SJorge3442's Avatar
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    That belt is pretty worn. The fact that the blue coating is missing quite a bit scares me. Remember, lose the belt, lose the head. I'd handle this sooner than later.
    2017 A4 6 Speed - Sport Plus - Mythos Black
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  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings Charles.waite's Avatar
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    ^^ Agreed. And go OEM (Continental) with it. None of that Gates racing nonsense.
    -CP
    2008 2.0t S-Line Ti 6MT Avant
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  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings eljay's Avatar
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    Yeah, the answer is obvious here. I gotta do it. And I agree that the OEM is the way to go. Nw, I gotta go research the DIY and what parts I need and from where.
    Anything else I should be looking at replacing while I have the front apart?
    Should I do the thermostat too? I wish I had more time to do a proper cleanup of the bay and anything else that comes up.

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Three Rings chad99's Avatar
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    The belt tension on the right of the cam sprocket will always have more deflection than the left side due to the way it's designed, but like what everyone is saying, that belt is scary.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings eljay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad99 View Post
    The belt tension on the right of the cam sprocket will always have more deflection than the left side due to the way it's designed, but like what everyone is saying, that belt is scary.
    Thanks, that makes sense.
    And the money pit opens...

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings Seerlah's Avatar
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    I don't trust Continental. I am running a Gates belt now, and this has me about to inspect it. I don't trust Gates now either, if that is the case. Who to trust?
    I hate it when my car acts like a little bitch, treating me like a bitch

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings Charles.waite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerlah View Post
    I don't trust Continental. I am running a Gates belt now, and this has me about to inspect it. I don't trust Gates now either, if that is the case. Who to trust?
    Well we all know you can't trust Audi. Who does that leave?!
    -CP
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  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings Seerlah's Avatar
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    I don't know . But ask Keith what a continental belt did to his engine.
    I hate it when my car acts like a little bitch, treating me like a bitch

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings Charles.waite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diagnosticator View Post
    The entire valve cover looks like crap. Salt spray from no belly pan.
    That's a good point I missed that. Definitely looks like what salt corrosion does to aluminum.
    -CP
    2008 2.0t S-Line Ti 6MT Avant
    2017 Q7 3.0t
    SOLD -- 2012 Q5 2.0t - Stock Mommy Missile with new timing chains
    Former USP CLUB MEMBER #136
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  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings eljay's Avatar
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    Yeah, that cover needs a good cleaning/scrubbing. Any suggestions on what to use on it?
    I'll see if I can find a good used cover to minimize downtime.
    Current: 2016 Audi A4 Allroad (in progress)
    Past: 2005 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Avant / 6-speed / Ultrasport - SOLD

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings Charles.waite's Avatar
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    Water in spark plug wells? Plus a timing belt question

    I've used conti belts on my past two timing belt changes (both from Europa) and the quality has been good as far as I can tell. The b7 has been on that belt for 25k but I haven't bothered to check on it. I should give it a quick gander sometime.

    Also I always was under the assumption that Conti was the OEM manufacturer. Guess not?
    -CP
    2008 2.0t S-Line Ti 6MT Avant
    2017 Q7 3.0t
    SOLD -- 2012 Q5 2.0t - Stock Mommy Missile with new timing chains
    Former USP CLUB MEMBER #136
    2004 A4 1.8TQ 6MT USP - APR Stage 1+ - FSI Coils - BKR7EIX-11 - B6S4 Front + B7A4 Rear Brakes - 034 Street Trans Mount
    SOLD -- 2006 A4 2.0TQ Avant Tiptronic

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings diagnosticator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 348695;eljay
    So, am I really on borrowed time here with the belt or can I get a couple of weeks (a couple of hundred miles) on it, before I get everything organized for the service? I surely hope I don't discover anything else along the way or I might have as well bought a new engine! :)
    Replacing the existing timing belt is not an absolute emergency, but anytime there are any cracks in the belt requires replacement asap. The existing timing belt is not in a critical condition requiring immediate replacement. You should be alright running the current belt for a short time before replacement.

    Quote Originally Posted by 348695;eljay
    How strong should the tension feel be on the timing belt? Should it have the same resistance feel as when you push down on a section of the accessory belt? The TB tension is certainly softer than my acc belt.
    The timing belt is not supposed to be drum tight. A synchronous belt like the timing belt self tensions as load and speed increase, so the static tension will seem to be to low, but a small amount of free play (~ 1/8", 4 > 6 mm,) or capable of being twisted at least 45 degrees and no more than 90 degrees in the midpoint of the longest run between pulleys, is correctly tensioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by 77478;Charles-waite
    ^^ Agreed. And go OEM (Continental) with it. None of that Gates racing nonsense....

    I've used conti belts on my past two timing belt changes (both from Europa) and the quality has been good as far as I can tell. The b7 has been on that belt for 25k but I haven't bothered to check on it. I should give it a quick gander sometime.

    Also I always was under the assumption that Conti was the OEM manufacturer. Guess not?
    Continental and Gates are both OEM (not the blue Gates "racing" belt,) for Audi. Conti is a larger volume OE supplier compared to Gates for European manufacturers.

    The blue Gates Racing belt is manufactured using more expensive premium materials and lower production volume compared to the OE Gates timing belt.

    I have seen Continental timing belts that look really roughly finished out of the box, with questionable manufacturing precision and quality due to appearance, (could have been counterfeit,) sold by reputable vendors.

    IMO, Gates timing belts are the best belts available.


    The entire valve cover looks like crap, resulting from road salt spray due to missing engine bay lower cover/belly pan. Replacing the existing corroded valve cover with a good condition used cover, cleaned then painted is the prefered solution, considering the time involved and the likely less than satisfactory results of a scrub of the existing VC since the post scrub valve cover surface will still be rough and pitted.

    Only a cosmetic problem, but the VC appearance characterizes the condition of the engine, and by extension, the entire car, so it's worth addressing.

    A missing belly pan/engine bay lower cover should be reinstalled to minimize/prevent damage to the engine bay equipment and systems due to salty road water spray, dirt and mud. The belly pan also increases fuel economy on the highway, by streamlining the front of the underbody minimizing air flow drag on the car caused by turbulent air flow under the engine bay when the lower cover in not installed. An installed belly pan/cover minimizes exposure of the engine bay components to contamination from road dirt and dust, snow, mud and salty road water spray from the front tires, and functionally extends the operating life and reliability of the moving and somewhat exposed parts like the engine accessory drive belt and idler pulley bearings, timing belt and belt guide/tensioning parts, alternator, and other engine bay components.
    Last edited by diagnosticator; 12-20-2015 at 01:47 PM.
    Vorsprung durch Technik

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings eljay's Avatar
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    Thank you diagnosticator and charles.

    Yes, the belly pan was missing and for the reasons above I ordered a new one (just the front portion for now). I am just waiting for the hardware to arrive.

    I haven't driven the car yet. I will need to refill the coolant after the flange replacement and I'm just checking out the various TB kit options.
    Current: 2016 Audi A4 Allroad (in progress)
    Past: 2005 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Avant / 6-speed / Ultrasport - SOLD

  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings eljay's Avatar
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    This one seems like what I need and seems like a good price for us Canucks:
    http://germanoem.ca/parts/engine-mec...1-8t-late.html

    I'll add a thermostat to that.

    Any opinions on Opti belt brand? Seems like an OEM supplier too. Or should I pay an extra $35 for the Conti?
    Current: 2016 Audi A4 Allroad (in progress)
    Past: 2005 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Avant / 6-speed / Ultrasport - SOLD

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