RS5 Brakes

[RyanJon]

Has anyone fitted RS5 brakes to their S4?

I'm looking at a full set which includes the 8 pot fronts, wavey discs front and rear, rear calipers, 2 sets of pads, dust shields and pipes.

Will they be much of an upgrade from the standard brakes?

Will I need to upgrade anything else i.e mastercylinder or anything?

Is there anything else i need to consider?

Ryan

[ed@mtl]

Here, take look at ECS Tuning site. https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_S4...rmance/Front/2

[PsYkHoTiK]

Why not go with a Brembo/StopTech/etc?

The Brembo 8 piston isn't that great of a caliper. All of the pistons are the same size which leads to uneven wear, and brake pads are expensive (4 pads per caliper). And the flower rotors aren't very good either (ask other RS5 owners :) ).

[A4 Centaur]

^I don't know about Brembo for cars, but I have loved the reliability of the Stoptech 380mm kit. I had the 355mm on my B7 and liked it as well.

The pads are a breeze to replace as well. If I do another BB Kit it will not be a Brembo for the car. For the Panigale yes.

Stoptech is a great set-up and they have my loyalty. I think the AP Racing would be my other choice: http://apradical.stillen.com/

They look pretty nice and the price is comparable. AP was one time affiliated with Lockheed and they made calipers for aircraft?

[paul]

what is your intent for the brake upgrade? Looks or performance? If you're seriously tracking the car I would suggest that you pick up a kit made specifically for the car as any of the big companies (stoptech or brembo) will or should be designing the kit to use the proper caliper and pistons for the vehicle. If it's for looks then whatever floats your boat.

[Pyromatic177]

Why not go with a Brembo/StopTech/etc?

The Brembo 8 piston isn't that great of a caliper. All of the pistons are the same size which leads to uneven wear, and brake pads are expensive (4 pads per caliper).

Why does it lead to uneven wear?

[[email protected]]

The RS4/5 system is a good OE upgrade option. I recommend it for people who are looking to do an OE genuine upgrade and mainly are doing this for aggressive street performance and not track use.

If you are looking for something more track capable there are some great deals on Alcon based systems:

Brake Package | Revo 370x32mm Front- 25% Off While Supplies Last - Biggest Discount Ever Offered!

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...day-Sale-is-On!

If anyone has questions on these kits or needs more info don't hesitate to PM or email: [email protected]

Cheers,

[A4 Centaur]

^Alex those are a great OEM upgrade. Probably better to stay with OEM look if you don't track at all.

[PsYkHoTiK]

Why does it lead to uneven wear?

Short answer:
Pad Tapering

Long answer:
Properly set up fixed calipers with multiple pistons feature progressive sizing. Typically leading end has smaller pistons with the trailing (rear) end having larger piston. This ensures that pressure is applied consistently on the pad (and helps prevent/reduce pad tapering).

The RS caliper is an 8 piston fixed caliper with 4 pads per caliper (one pad per pair of brake pistons per side). The 'top' or 'leading' pair will wear out faster since the pistons are all the same size. So instead of rotating pads side to side within a caliper and then switching to the other side, I now have to do a 'cross' swap (lol same pattern as rotating tires) to try and get consistent pad wear - and the way I drive on the track, I do it during lunch time. I have a set of race pads sitting somewhere where 4 of the 8 is almost down to the backing plate, and the other 4 still has some material left.

More reading here (if you don't mind a bit of a marketing pitch):
http://stoptech.com/technical-suppor...alance-matters
http://www.wilwood.com/TechTip/TechCaliperTip.aspx

The caliper should be mounted so that the smaller piston end is closest to the rotor entrance, and the larger piston end toward the rotor exit. The larger piston end provides slightly greater clamping force to compensate for pad taper that can occur under extended severe use applications. An improperly mounted caliper (reverse rotation) will cause increased pad taper and reduce overall braking efficiency.

I have more info about these systems in another forum:
http://tinyurl.com/outglls
http://tinyurl.com/hxauxft

If for whatever reasons it gets removed, PM me and I'll send it to you (just sharing info, not participating in drama).

I'm of the opinion that if you're going to spend monies upgrading, get something really good. I don't think going to StopTech or Alcons are that much of a material difference (if any at all).

OEM Plus modding is great, but the '5' forums is littered with RS5 owners who has had to replace the silly 'wave' rotors under warranty - some even repeatedly.

To echo (and paraphrase) a comment I once saw, "RS5 owners tend to not like the stock brakes, but the S/A owners seem to love upgrading to them". Haha!

[RyanJon]

Cheers for the info guys, I don't intend to track my car tbh but it does get a fair bit of fast road use and hope to be at stage 2+ early next year so think the standard brakes may be a bit under powered. I'm looking to upgrade for looks reasons also and would like to upgrade all round which I don't think is an option with the likes of stoptec, ap, brembo etc?

What are the problems with the wave discs that people have?

I have the ecs cayenne kit on my B6 which will be coming off just after Christmas before I sell the car. I've been happy with the kit but it won't fit my B8 without special adaptors and the discs could also do with replacing.

The rs5 kit I've seen is for all 4 corners which I like the idea of, it's an oem upgrade and the price looks fair for a complete solution.

[deadpool7777]

Why not go with a Brembo/StopTech/etc?

The Brembo 8 piston isn't that great of a caliper. All of the pistons are the same size which leads to uneven wear, and brake pads are expensive (4 pads per caliper). And the flower rotors aren't very good either (ask other RS5 owners :) ).

The pistons are not all the same size.

[PsYkHoTiK]

The pistons are not all the same size.

I stand corrected. Thanks!
https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_RS...iper/ES349297/

Uneven pad wear comment stands though.

Edit: Pic below (after 1 track day - Carbotech RP2 - which wasn't that great on the car, now I'm using XP24s and they work marvelously with the Girodisc 380mm rotors - with rotations :))


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[deadpool7777]

Wow! that is some extreme uneven wear. I don't track my car yet, so haven't had that problem. Thanks for the info.

[QuattroRocket]

The other thing to be aware of in the RS5 front swap is that these are about the physically largest calipers you can choose to swap to so your wheel choices become VERY limited. Having said that now that I have my winter and summer wheel setups all set I am very happy with my RS5 brake upgrade. The only "complaint" I have would be that when cold and wet the first pump on the pedal results in little braking force, the second pump however is as normal.

032214_2 by QuattroRocket, on Flickr

[ptper]

The other thing to be aware of in the RS5 front swap is that these are about the physically largest calipers you can choose to swap to so your wheel choices become VERY limited. Having said that now that I have my winter and summer wheel setups all set I am very happy with my RS5 brake upgrade. The only "complaint" I have would be that when cold and wet the first pump on the pedal results in little braking force, the second pump however is as normal.

032214_2 by QuattroRocket, on Flickr

Very nice. What color is that? Powder-coated?

[QuattroRocket]

Very nice. What color is that? Powder-coated?

Painted the VHT caliper paint gold

Thanks

[littleredwagen]

I have the RS5 front brakes on my Car, My track pads are very expensive but since I drive the car year round, I need not worry about pooptechs seizing like mine did on my B5. I have 9 events on the rotors and they are tired 8 before signs of being tired. I run Pagid RS29s which might help with rotor wear. One thing I did that helped a lot on the B8 swap the RS5 Brake Booster and Master into car. Makes the Brake work as they should(no soft pedal). The rear rotors are different offset The hubs are different. If am reading right you are in the UK so you would just use the RS4 rear. Calipers are almost the same minus spots where the RS Beauty plate goes. They are the same size though and use the same pad as the S4/S5. You technically don't need the calipers just the rotors. I think for a dual purpose setup they are great, obviously with some compromises.

[littleredwagen]

The other thing to be aware of in the RS5 front swap is that these are about the physically largest calipers you can choose to swap to so your wheel choices become VERY limited. Having said that now that I have my winter and summer wheel setups all set I am very happy with my RS5 brake upgrade. The only "complaint" I have would be that when cold and wet the first pump on the pedal results in little braking force, the second pump however is as normal.

That is most likely due to the S4 master and booster (same as the A4 sadly) being too small. I noticed a huge difference in pedal feel when I upgraded those parts to RS5 parts.

[rlfletch]

That is most likely due to the S4 master and booster (same as the A4 sadly) being too small. I noticed a huge difference in pedal feel when I upgraded those parts to RS5 parts.

This is my biggest beef with upgrading calipers. Without a bigger master cylinder the brake feel goes to shyt on these giant calipers. Any OE upgrade I do in the future will be based heavily on the MC's being common or very similar.

[littleredwagen]

This is my biggest beef with upgrading calipers. Without a bigger master cylinder the brake feel goes to shyt on these giant calipers. Any OE upgrade I do in the future will be based heavily on the MC's being common or very similar.

Luckily for me the price for the parts wasn't too bad so it was easier to swap the master and booster than sell and by another bbk

[FlyS4]

Luckily for me the price for the parts wasn't too bad so it was easier to swap the master and booster than sell and by another bbk

Do you happen to have part numbers for the Brake master and booster? Was it pretty straightforward to install?

[rubicant5x]

Do you happen to have part numbers for the Brake master and booster? Was it pretty straightforward to install?

ECS Tuning has the part numbers for both and have the cheapest price (I purchased the wave rotor kit as well, just need to get it installed).

Links below:

https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_RS...der/ES2557277/

https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_RS...der/ES2063958/

[FlyS4]

Damn, almost another grand.I wonder how easy it is to install. Looks like replacing that is the way to go. Pad tapering by underpowering those calipers isn't the route I want to take.

[saxon]

^I don't know about Brembo for cars, but I have loved the reliability of the Stoptech 380mm kit. I had the 355mm on my B7 and liked it as well.

The pads are a breeze to replace as well. If I do another BB Kit it will not be a Brembo for the car. For the Panigale yes.

Stoptech is a great set-up and they have my loyalty. I think the AP Racing would be my other choice: http://apradical.stillen.com/

They look pretty nice and the price is comparable. AP was one time affiliated with Lockheed and they made calipers for aircraft?

the stop tech caliper have issues, i would stay far away from what ive seen

[acsgp]

The one thing that put me off the RS5 brakes is that they're heavier than stock.

[abamfo]

Does anyone know what the maximum size rotor which can be used with the stock callipers (street use only)??

Need to replace my rotors and pads but want to use something which will work when I upgrade to big calipers

[-leman-]

Damn, almost another grand.I wonder how easy it is to install. Looks like replacing that is the way to go. Pad tapering by underpowering those calipers isn't the route I want to take.

You do not necessarily have to replace master cylinder and brake booster. On my S5 I kept them when going RS5 BBK and only swapped the brake lines to ECS stainless steel ones.

The only downside you may have when keeping OE master cylinder and brake booster is mushy pedal feel or having to put more force on the brake pedal, pad tapering has nothing to do with it. While I cannot vote for the feel with full RS5 system my personal impression of RS5 calipers on otherwise OE braking system is good. SS brake lines may or may not have helped with potential mushy feel issue in my case.

Pad tapering is in most cases due to wrong pad used for the driving style, bad caliper construction (e.g. same size pistons used in calipers with long brake pads) or lack of caliper maintenance. RS5 8-pot Brembos use 8 pads each (2 pads per each side and not one long pad) and different sized pistons (unlike stated above) so they are fine from pad tapering viewpoint.

[RyanJon]

I ended up going with AP racing setup in the end with 390mm j hooked discs, they performed flawlessly on the 1 track day I've been on so far

[rubicant5x]

The one thing that put me off the RS5 brakes is that they're heavier than stock.

The caliper might be heavier but I'm pretty sure the two piece scalloped rotor is lighter than the stock S4 rotor.

[blackfunk]

I ended up going with AP racing setup in the end with 390mm j hooked discs, they performed flawlessly on the 1 track day I've been on so far

Amazing feedback through the pedal too. A huge upgrade in terms of feel for me.

[FlyS4]

You do not necessarily have to replace master cylinder and brake booster. On my S5 I kept them when going RS5 BBK and only swapped the brake lines to ECS stainless steel ones.

The only downside you may have when keeping OE master cylinder and brake booster is mushy pedal feel or having to put more force on the brake pedal, pad tapering has nothing to do with it. While I cannot vote for the feel with full RS5 system my personal impression of RS5 calipers on otherwise OE braking system is good. SS brake lines may or may not have helped with potential mushy feel issue in my case.

Pad tapering is in most cases due to wrong pad used for the driving style, bad caliper construction (e.g. same size pistons used in calipers with long brake pads) or lack of caliper maintenance. RS5 8-pot Brembos use 8 pads each (2 pads per each side and not one long pad) and different sized pistons (unlike stated above) so they are fine from pad tapering viewpoint.

Thank you for the reply. I am debating on the SS braided hoses. I have the kit sitting at my office. Will probably do everything at once. I will not like any mushy feel.

The caliper might be heavier but I'm pretty sure the two piece scalloped rotor is lighter than the stock S4 rotor.

They are lighter. ECS tuning has posted numbers comparing their rotors to RS rotors and their rotors to stock rotors. You can compare the Data and indeed they are on par with any other 2 piece set up out there in weight. Although the weight of the caliper might be more, its sprung and mostly going to affect the suspension response. Good thing the rotor will compensate with less weight which is unsprung so you will still feel performance increase (acceleration).

[s4bw]

I have RS5 front brakes with ECS 2-piece rotors. I weighed the kit VS. the stock parts and the RS5's were about 3lbs per corner lighter. Also did the rear ECS 2-piece rotors, they saved about 3LBS each as well.

[rubicant5x]

I have RS5 front brakes with ECS 2-piece rotors. I weighed the kit VS. the stock parts and the RS5's were about 3lbs per corner lighter. Also did the rear ECS 2-piece rotors, they saved about 3LBS each as well.

You mean the non-Scalloped 380MM/330MM rotors respectively?

[FlyS4]

I am on the fence either I should sell this whole set up and just go with Girodisc front and back and powdercoated Q5 4 piston Brembos....

[s4bw]

Yes, non-scalloped 380/330 ecs 2-piece

[rubicant5x]

Yes, non-scalloped 380/330 ecs 2-piece

Thanks.

[s4bw]

Here is a pic of my setup. I run stock 18's in the winter as well. They fit with 10mm spacers


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[FlyS4]

Here is a pic of my setup. I run stock 18's in the winter as well. They fit with 10mm spacers


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How fast do these rust?

[s4bw]

Do you mean the surface of the rotors? They rust right away after washing the car, like all steel rotors. As soon as you drive the rust comes off.

[FlyS4]

Do you mean the surface of the rotors? They rust right away after washing the car, like all steel rotors. As soon as you drive the rust comes off.

Some rust more than others. I have new updated Audi rotors with black hats and comparing to GiroDisk they almost didnt rust after a wash. I wet them equally.