Sound System Upgrade in an 8V S3

[Sloth682]

Hi All, Thanks in advance for any input/help.

I just got an 8V S3. Really enjoying driving it, but the non-B&O (I think I saw it referred to as the Audi Sound System 9VD) is not impressive to me. I have enjoyed doing a little stereo work on my previous vehicles so I talked myself out of upgrading to the B&O. Sounds like this may have been a mistake from what I have read in the forums, but, the damage is done.

I would like to add an amplifier and upgrade (add to?) the front speakers and subwoofer. After combing through several of the Audi forums and google searches, I think I have a few options that may have their own pros and cons. Could any of you familiar with upgrading Audi's in this way help me decide which option would work best for me, and any options or pros/cons I didn't think of?


A few general questions....

1. Looking at the pinouts, it looks like the front speakers get a single full-range output from the control unit. Is this true? This makes me feel like I could do this without the need for any kind of DSP/Summing device.
2. Does the Audi require a reasonable speaker impedance load to be on the internal amp without throwing errors? (I had heard of this some Cadillac's. Worked around by having a high wattage resistor between the speaker outputs and the line output converter)
3. Does anyone know what impedance the 2-way ASS front speakers are together? Is there some passive crossover between the head unit and those speakers? (I'm guessing there would have to be since they are not amp'd individually?)


Options...

1. Use a MOST bridge (Mobridge) pre amplifier

a. Pros
1. Wiring is minimal
2. Sound Quality?
3. Full retention of MMI controls?
b. Cons
1. Expensive
2. Would require VCDS reprogramming to use the MOST bus? (Could the non-Ross Tech stuff do this?)

2. Use an line output converter (to go from the speaker level outputs to RCA) or amplifier that has high-level inputs

a. Pros
1. Cheaper
2. All Fader/Treble/Bass controls are retained since this is all at the speaker (high) level?
b. Cons
1. Sound Quality vs MOST?
2. More wiring
3. Will need to get a quad lock extension cable so I'm not cutting the factory harness (already done)


Thoughts on sound quality with MOST vs LOC: Even if it's true that MOST would provide the best sound quality, I'm not sure it matters enough for me to care. While not crazy about the idea, I'm getting more comfortable that I can make an LOC setup sound good. Thoughts?

The end goal I'm thinking about is a decent class D 4 channel amp (alpine pdx-f4, jl xd400), either replacing the front 2/3 way system with a mid level component set (focal 165as3, since there is already a spot for a ~4 inch mid?) or adding some nice tweeters and giving the stock speakers a try with some more power. For the subwoofer, I was thinking a JL 6w3 and making an enclosure that would drop into the existing opening in the deck.

Thanks for sticking with me through the long post. Any and all input is appreciated. Cheers.

[clerkpalmer]

Hi All, Thanks in advance for any input/help.

I just got an 8V S3. Really enjoying driving it, but the non-B&O (I think I saw it referred to as the Audi Sound System 9VD) is not impressive to me. I have enjoyed doing a little stereo work on my previous vehicles so I talked myself out of upgrading to the B&O. Sounds like this may have been a mistake from what I have read in the forums, but, the damage is done.

I would like to add an amplifier and upgrade (add to?) the front speakers and subwoofer. After combing through several of the Audi forums and google searches, I think I have a few options that may have their own pros and cons. Could any of you familiar with upgrading Audi's in this way help me decide which option would work best for me, and any options or pros/cons I didn't think of?


A few general questions....

1. Looking at the pinouts, it looks like the front speakers get a single full-range output from the control unit. Is this true? This makes me feel like I could do this without the need for any kind of DSP/Summing device.
2. Does the Audi require a reasonable speaker impedance load to be on the internal amp without throwing errors? (I had heard of this some Cadillac's. Worked around by having a high wattage resistor between the speaker outputs and the line output converter)
3. Does anyone know what impedance the 2-way ASS front speakers are together? Is there some passive crossover between the head unit and those speakers? (I'm guessing there would have to be since they are not amp'd individually?)


Options...

1. Use a MOST bridge (Mobridge) pre amplifier

a. Pros
1. Wiring is minimal
2. Sound Quality?
3. Full retention of MMI controls?
b. Cons
1. Expensive
2. Would require VCDS reprogramming to use the MOST bus? (Could the non-Ross Tech stuff do this?)

2. Use an line output converter (to go from the speaker level outputs to RCA) or amplifier that has high-level inputs

a. Pros
1. Cheaper
2. All Fader/Treble/Bass controls are retained since this is all at the speaker (high) level?
b. Cons
1. Sound Quality vs MOST?
2. More wiring
3. Will need to get a quad lock extension cable so I'm not cutting the factory harness (already done)


Thoughts on sound quality with MOST vs LOC: Even if it's true that MOST would provide the best sound quality, I'm not sure it matters enough for me to care. While not crazy about the idea, I'm getting more comfortable that I can make an LOC setup sound good. Thoughts?

The end goal I'm thinking about is a decent class D 4 channel amp (alpine pdx-f4, jl xd400), either replacing the front 2/3 way system with a mid level component set (focal 165as3, since there is already a spot for a ~4 inch mid?) or adding some nice tweeters and giving the stock speakers a try with some more power. For the subwoofer, I was thinking a JL 6w3 and making an enclosure that would drop into the existing opening in the deck.

Thanks for sticking with me through the long post. Any and all input is appreciated. Cheers.

Subscribed. Non b&o is horrible. Wish I had a do over. Would love some suggestions to improve the stock setup.

[949]

you may seen my post about the mobridge. i would like to see someone attempt that unit. it is supposed to be a pnp. the price should be well worth the integration it offers. the sound would still be better than a line ouput.

[gamegenie]

you may seen my post about the mobridge. i would like to see someone attempt that unit. it is supposed to be a pnp. the price should be well worth the integration it offers. the sound would still be better than a line ouput.

link?

[Sloth682]

I received this reply from a sales representative of the company that makes the Mobridge....

Hi Sloan,
Your car has MOST150 Bus which we don’t have any units at all for, and we’re unlikely to either! It’s a very complex system with lots of encryption built in, so I’m very sorry we can’t help.

Regards

Dave Williams
International Sales Manager


So this is kind of a bummer. I may be trying the line output converter route for now.

949, do you have a link to the post of yours regarding mobridge usage. Was it in an 8V?

Also, is there someone out there that can move this thread to the Car Audio and Integration section? Sorry I didn't realize it existed until after I posted.

[OSU S3]

I received this reply from a sales representative of the company that makes the Mobridge....

Hi Sloan,
Your car has MOST150 Bus which we don’t have any units at all for, and we’re unlikely to either! It’s a very complex system with lots of encryption built in, so I’m very sorry we can’t help.

Regards

Dave Williams
International Sales Manager


So this is kind of a bummer. I may be trying the line output converter route for now.

949, do you have a link to the post of yours regarding mobridge usage. Was it in an 8V?

Also, is there someone out there that can move this thread to the Car Audio and Integration section? Sorry I didn't realize it existed until after I posted.

Yep, Got the same response from mObridge. Definately a bummer as I was hoping to use the DA3. Guess I will use the bit ten I currently have and see how it sounds. Does anyone know how clean the signal will be coming from the stock amp to the bit ten?

[949]

there is another company that might have one that works. look for my link and you can read about it more. contact them and see what they have for our car.

[Sloth682]

there is another company that might have one that works. look for my link and you can read about it more. contact them and see what they have for our car.

Thanks 949, do you have a link or name of the company?

[photocycler]

Any updates on this, considering options to upgrade and would like to hear anyone's experience


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[OSU S3]

No one has anything to grab the signal before its amplified so I had to use a LOC. I have the b&o system and the sub and front midbass needed resistors to get output from them. I ended up replacing the front and rear speakers with Hybrid Audio Legatia series. 8in midbass in the doors sound amazing. I'm using an image dynamics idmax10 in an enclosure for the sub. I tried to reinforce the deck and run it IB but couldn't get it to sound good. The rear speakers and center channel are still powered by the factory b&o amp. I'm using a helix DSP six to power the fronts and also for DSP. It's pretty awesome. The sub is being powered by a Zapco z1kd. I was worried about getting a clean signal but it turned out amazing. I didn't lose any functionality of the head unit which is something I wanted. Especially being able to adjust the sub from the headunit. It's been a lot of work and research but it's been worth it. The factory system is no comparison.

Actually just replacing the speakers and running them off the factory b&o amp made a huge difference initially but when I switched to the helix everything sounded better especially the details in the highs. Most people would be completely satisfied with just replacing the speakers and adding a real sub though.

[Sloth682]

No one has anything to grab the signal before its amplified so I had to use a LOC. I have the b&o system and the sub and front midbass needed resistors to get output from them. I ended up replacing the front and rear speakers with Hybrid Audio Legatia series. 8in midbass in the doors sound amazing. I'm using an image dynamics idmax10 in an enclosure for the sub. I tried to reinforce the deck and run it IB but couldn't get it to sound good. The rear speakers and center channel are still powered by the factory b&o amp. I'm using a helix DSP six to power the fronts and also for DSP. It's pretty awesome. The sub is being powered by a Zapco z1kd. I was worried about getting a clean signal but it turned out amazing. I didn't lose any functionality of the head unit which is something I wanted. Especially being able to adjust the sub from the headunit. It's been a lot of work and research but it's been worth it. The factory system is no comparison.

Actually just replacing the speakers and running them off the factory b&o amp made a huge difference initially but when I switched to the helix everything sounded better especially the details in the highs. Most people would be completely satisfied with just replacing the speakers and adding a real sub though.

Thanks OSU S3. Can you give me the model numbers of the speakers you used? Was it a three way setup using all 6 channels of the amp? Do the speakers need that much power or do you think I'd get good results going smaller with an amp?

[Sloth682]

Also, did you use the high level signal to the sub to go into the Zapco amp? Or did you grab a low level out from the Helix?

[OSU S3]

I used hybrid legatia series, L8v2, L3v2, and L1v2. I always try to put as much clean power as I can but they ran pretty good off the stock b&o amp which I doubt puts out very much rms power. I'm using an audio control lc8i to convert to low level. I'm taking the front low, mid and high signals as well as the signal from both sub outputs from the b&o amp and feeding the lc8i. I'm summing the front signals into a 2ch signal and outputting them the helix and sending the sub signals separately into the helix as well. This lets me control sub volume through the factory head unit. The helix is setup so the front signals feed all six of its channels and I have the sub channels output to the zapco through rcas. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions or if this is confusing.

[Sloth682]

I followed you there. Thanks for being the guinea pig for this, so to speak. When I found out there was no way to do a MOST setup, I was worried about getting a clean signal for a LOC. Also good to hear you had good results with a lc8i.

I dont' have the B&O setup, just the internal amp audi sound system whatever. I'm guessing the door speakers are passively crossed over, so I wonder if I can get away without the summing step.

Anyway, great info.