Advice requested - my S4 at Audi for > 1 month needing 2 replacement cyclinder heads!

[guestlinger]

Guys

I have a 2012 B8.5 S4 with 25000 miles and totally stock (no mods - ever!) and Full Main Dealer Service History.

Over it's lifetime it's had 3 misfiring episodes; approx once each year. The issue was "resolved" by Audi on the first and second occasion by changing an ignition coil.

On the third occasion (about 6 weeks ago) the problem started again; misfiring under WOT then EPC light would come on. Turning the ignition on / off twice would clear the issue for a while but quickly the problem returned. So back it went to Audi. This time they concluded the cylinder head was cracked (had it always been?). Had to wait 10days for a back order cylinder head to arrive. When changing the head they found another part needing replacing (some hose or other) - another 10 day back order. Finally they put the car back together and find it has an oil leak and have to order a seal. OK a bit frustrating but then things took a BIG turn for the worse. Whilst test driving the car before returning it to me, they claim that the camshaft in the new cylinder head seized, resulting in the new cyclinder head becoming distorted. WTF. So they now need to put another cylinder head in. Another 10d wait! So it's been at Audi over a month now.

So thing is I'm no mechanic. I need to know what questions to ask and things to check before taking the car back. Could they have damaged other parts of the engine / car when the camshaft seized? What causes a camshaft to seize? Anyone experienced a cracked cylinder head or seized camshaft before? Any insights or suggestions here massively appreciated - I'm feeling well out of my depth. The only plus is it does have a 4 year Audi warranty.

Looking forward to receiving your advice - thanks

[bhvrdr]

I'm guessing they said/meant the camshaft seized. It could have been someone put things back together wrong or another part failed.

Mike

[o1turbo30v]

trade it in, you don't want that thing or want to deal with that thing long term, there are plenty of other s4's out there with no issues.

[RudyH]

who is doing the work? Audi? I assume from the posting
Take it to a different dealer

[guestlinger]

thanks Mike - Ive made the corrections

[fitzydude]

I seized and snapped the camshaft on one of my old Mazda heads by reusing the cams cap from the old head on the new head. Turns out the cam caps are uniquely machined for each head. But who knows what happened with yours. Even accidently switching one of the cam caps to a different position could cause this issue.

-Alex

[The Fat Kid]

trade it in, you don't want that thing or want to deal with that thing long term, there are plenty of other s4's out there with no issues.

That is actually not a terrible idea. Audi is known to give really high trade-in values when something major (e.g. DSG) fails.

[guestlinger]

all done at Audi main dealer.

who is doing the work? Audi? I assume from the posting
Take it to a different dealer

[guestlinger]

the new cylinder head apparently inclded all new components ie camshaft valves etc). I dont think they used old parts from the cracked cylinder head if thats what youre thinking??

I seized and snapped the camshaft on one of my old Mazda heads by reusing the cams cap from the old head on the new head. Turns out the cam caps are uniquely machined for each head. But who knows what happened with yours. Even accidently switching one of the cam caps to a different position could cause this issue.

-Alex

[b6onboost]

As long as they're fixing it, there's not much you can do but sit and wait however inconvenient it is. When they're done make sure everything was documented in detail, including the fact that they 'fixed' it yet it failed on internal test drive and had to be fixed again. This detail will be helpful if the car continues to have problems and you end up talking to Audi Corporate about a buyback or other remedy.

Otherwise just drive the crap out of it to uncover any other issues and to make sure its solid before your warranty expires. If it does have more problems, I'd look to trade it and see if the dealer or Audi can hook you up considering how unreliable your particular car has been.

[LINDW4LL]

trade it in, you don't want that thing or want to deal with that thing long term, there are plenty of other s4's out there with no issues.

This makes no sense. The head is the issue, and is being replaced.

Why would he not want the car?

[JoshDub]

This makes no sense. The head is the issue, and is being replaced.

Why would he not want the car?

Because he has no idea what anything under the hood is and just gets scared.

OP, you'll be fine. If anything the cam was probably improperly installed or they started it dry.

Let them fix it. When you go to pick it up I'd check for hose and electrical fittings. But really if you aren't familiar with this kind of stuff you aren't really going to be able to find anything. Just drive it home and bring it back if there are problems. It's just a head swap.

[S4'ed]

You don't want to keep this car.....what's the chance that the dealership mechanic is doing as good a job as the Audi engine factory........the evidence tells me they do not know what they are doing.......

[chaos2984]

First off. You should look into your country's lemon law's if there are any and how they are written to possible help you. If this car was in my state this would fully qualify for lemon law and theirs nothing they could really do about it. Audi would have to buy the car back according to my states law. I would look into and start to question this and possible pursue buyback

[GTItoS4]

If I had to guess -- they didn't get the timing chain/cam gear timed properly and bent valves or cracked the new head. I'd be inclined to trade it in for a new S4.

[doug97gxe]

i had something similar happen on a bike motor.. it was user install error .. bike was never right after.. motor eventually grenaded

[guestlinger]

Thanks all for your suggestions. It seem there's 2 schools of thought .... either a) it's just a cylinder head - it should be ok to fix or b) don't risk it - there maybe other issues following a double cylinder head failure.

I have loved this car - spec'd it out just perfect for me and was hoping to have a few lease free years ahead of me

If I trade it will Audi value it as a "normal" 25000 mile, 3 year old car or are they likely to offer me less because of the cylinder head issues? What do you guys think?

[JoshDub]

You don't want to keep this car.....what's the chance that the dealership mechanic is doing as good a job as the Audi engine factory........the evidence tells me they do not know what they are doing.......

Are you serious? You act like a cylinder head requires an assembly of world class neuro surgeons

[Thurston]

Are you serious? You act like a cylinder head requires an assembly of world class neuro surgeons

haha that's pretty funny. to be fair, he makes an unusually unique point that I never would have thought of and although extreme after re-reading the o.g. post I think he may need to have the car repaired provided audi is covering under warranty and sell it - or ride out the warranty and see if they finally got it right this time. I wish I could give some technical advice but it's beyond me, sure would be nice if they replaced the motor but I doubt that's even a consideration unless the cam shaft seizing is a catastrophic metastasizing issue.

[o1turbo30v]

Are you serious? You act like a cylinder head requires an assembly of world class neuro surgeons

It's not that it requires a lot of skill it's wether you would feel comfortable having 50% of the engine replaced on a relatively new car. Why keep it would be a better question. It's a 2012 with 25k on it, not acceptable to me by any standard. There are plenty of higher mileage s4's with no issues clearly this engine was built at 4:59 on a Friday.

[guestlinger]

so do you guys think it's more likely that a) the second cylinder head was faulty and that's why the camshaft seized or b) the repair was bodged by Audi and that's why the camshaft seized?

[skiptowncat]

so do you guys think it's more likely that a) the second cylinder head was faulty and that's why the camshaft seized or b) the repair was bodged by Audi and that's why the camshaft seized?

Bodged repair.

[schirm]

I have been out of my car for 2 months and still waiting, all for a bad CAT. Should never of taken it to Audi for the repair....

[doug97gxe]

i would say keep it till your warranty runs out.. as long as audi is footing the bill then don't worry about it

[The Fat Kid]

Thanks all for your suggestions. It seem there's 2 schools of thought .... either a) it's just a cylinder head - it should be ok to fix or b) don't risk it - there maybe other issues following a double cylinder head failure.

I have loved this car - spec'd it out just perfect for me and was hoping to have a few lease free years ahead of me

If I trade it will Audi value it as a "normal" 25000 mile, 3 year old car or are they likely to offer me less because of the cylinder head issues? What do you guys think?

It depends on the issue, but Audi usually gives ridiculously good trade-in values on cars with major problems; the best example is DSGs crapping out.

The car could certainly be fine, but I would probably try to a great deal on a new car if I were in your boots.

[S4'ed]

You paid for a premium product, and now you have some guy, with unknown skill, repairing your almost new engine, and they botched the job already once.....do you really think they sent a defective head assembly from the factory?????