Anyone used european tuning specialsts tunes?

[S4gasm2.7t]

Hey guys pretty straight forward question, I've searched a bit but all I come across is talk about their 3 bar map sensor lol. Just wanna know if anyone has used their tunes at all.

Website would be etspec.com

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[S4gasm2.7t]

Really no one even has any input? Or is there just less people using audizine nowadays...

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[LightningLou]

Never heard of them and I'm probably not the only one... I would just stick with one of the more reputable tuners in the community.

[aysix]

It's Blake Beadle. He tunes a bunch of B5 S4 guys.

https://www.youtube.com/user/MrSpeigels

[Wagonholic]

It's Blake Beadle. He tunes a bunch of B5 S4 guys.

https://www.youtube.com/user/MrSpeigels

That's Jon's channel, I believe he is "Shmaudi" on here or something like that. Running Blake's tune.

I'd recommend him, Blake's a great guy and his car was fastest euro at SoCal Euro this year.

Both of their cars are pretty damn fast and run quite well.

[S4gasm2.7t]

Ok thanks guys. I wasn't sure just passed on price, his stage 3 fueling setup with a tune and revisions is $850 or so,and I was like wow, just wanted to make sure it's not too good to be true.

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[Gotwake424]

Ok thanks guys. I wasn't sure just passed on price, his stage 3 fueling setup with a tune and revisions is $850 or so,and I was like wow, just wanted to make sure it's not too good to be true.

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You're only getting 550cc injectors an rs4 maf and a tune.
It's really not that great of a deal

EV14 550cc are like 295 new
A daz tune is like 350
thats only 650
an rs4 maf can't be 200$

[01audia4]

You're only getting 550cc injectors an rs4 maf and a tune.
It's really not that great of a deal

EV14 550cc are like 295 new
A daz tune is like 350
thats only 650
an rs4 maf can't be 200$

You're getting a FP too - so I would say for $50 more it's all about the convenience of buying it in one place.

[erykv1]

a daz tune is $350? I must be missing something... maybe for a stage 2 tune.

[mikay1814]

a daz tune is $350? I must be missing something... maybe for a stage 2 tune.

Nope, for stage 3.

[erykv1]

Nope, for stage 3.

How long ago was this? As of last year all stage 3 tunes have been $450.

[Gotwake424]

You're getting a FP too - so I would say for $50 more it's all about the convenience of buying it in one place.

Right forgot the FP, but even those can be found a little cheaper then 134$
I get that it's "all in one place"
but its not like this is some crazy good deal

How long ago was this? As of last year all stage 3 tunes have been $450.

I don't got mine maybe 2 years ago?

[mikay1814]

How long ago was this? As of last year all stage 3 tunes have been $450.

Maybe a year and half ago.

[Wagonholic]

Ok thanks guys. I wasn't sure just passed on price, his stage 3 fueling setup with a tune and revisions is $850 or so,and I was like wow, just wanted to make sure it's not too good to be true.

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Yep, it's correct. It's just because companies like APR/GIAC charge stupidly outrageous amounts for their off the shelf fueling kits that don't put out much power.

[Wagonholic]

How long ago was this? As of last year all stage 3 tunes have been $450.

Daz quoted me $300 over a year ago when I was looking for a tuner. I believe they changed their pricing structure since.

[S4gasm2.7t]

I believe he also includes a 3 bar map sensor as well

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[Wagonholic]

I believe he also includes a 3 bar map sensor as well

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yup

[SavageS4]

Let me break this down for you guys:

This is what is included in my package:
- Walbro genuine 450 LPH E85 Pump. (Cheapest $120 on ebay)
- 3 Bar Map Sensor Genuine Bosch (Cheapest $60 if you really get a genuine one)
- Genuine Bosch Ev14 52lb injectors with clips ($225 cheapest, again if you are getting real stuff)
- Genuine Bosch RS4 MAF Sensor brand new ($150 cheapest even on ebay)
- Custom Stage 3 Tune 3 BAR tune with Logging and Revisions (At least $400 value however you look at it)
- 5 Years of development on my own car and other cars in my area (Priceless), including a vast amount of E85 tuning experience with many different turbo setups.
So that alone totals $955 without monetizing the experience and time that has gone into the process behind all of this.

My price: $799

Also, if the injectors aren't big enough we offer upgrade options on the page for little additional money $.

Cheers!

[Peter Griffin]

I dont think anyone said it was a rip off, good job at coming across as a dick tho.

[S4gasm2.7t]

I don't think he was coming across as a dick at all. Some people were saying it's a crappy deal and saying you're only getting this and this... well he's telling you exactly what's going into his kit to end the back and forth with it. End of story, it's definitely a good price and I wanted to double check things is all.

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[Peter Griffin]

Now that he edited it he doesnt come across as dick.

[FlyboyS4]

Yep, it's correct. It's just because companies like APR/GIAC charge stupidly outrageous amounts for their off the shelf fueling kits that don't put out much power.

We're into the fourth generation of tuners, comparing them with those that pioneered the product line and have since left the platform is a poor comparison.

[Gotwake424]

I don't think he was coming across as a dick at all. Some people were saying it's a crappy deal and saying you're only getting this and this... well he's telling you exactly what's going into his kit to end the back and forth with it. End of story, it's definitely a good price and I wanted to double check things is all.

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woah never said it was a crap deal. I was pointing out that this isn't as OP put it "too good to be true"

[Wagonholic]

We're into the fourth generation of tuners, comparing them with those that pioneered the product line and have since left the platform is a poor comparison.

Yes, but they still offer their tunes, and people still buy them. So since they're still on the market, they can be compared. Their just offering an inferior product and that's their problem. I used to run giac software so I'm speaking from experience.


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[Quattro_The_Dog]

Take it from a decade plus owner here, all of these new options are a great deal. A short time ago a custom tune on this platform and a fueling kit to match was treated like secret and cost you easily $2500. I have been tuned custom or of the shelf by giac, apr, vast, epl, maestro, vlmspec, jhm and daz. All of them accomplished the goals at each interval in the cars life. I wouldn't hesitate to try the Blake guys file out too because all of these so called new tuners are coming from nef and the tunes are pretty good. I have paid anywhere from $450 more recently to $1200 for just tunes and had probably 5 different fueling kits on my car from k03s to rs6s. I wish the tunes had always been around $400! Those prices above on parts seem good too. My last package was $1050 but for different injectors and maf.

[FlyboyS4]

Yes, but they still offer their tunes, and people still buy them. So since they're still on the market, they can be compared. Their just offering an inferior product and that's their problem. I used to run giac software so I'm speaking from experience.

APR doesn't sell their OTS kit any longer. If you want to change the subject from what you said before to now talk about tunes that's ok, but it is a different subject.

The GIAC and APR tunes are experiencing the same situation as the hardware products, the companies have moved on and last updated those tunes about a decade ago. It's easy enough to flash an ecu, so it makes sense to continue to offer something that doesn't require maintaining an inventory of. I do agree that in strict terms they are 'inferior', but I don't think by much. How much of a performance gain did you see when switching from the GIAC tune? What changed with the tune, did you see better results on the same boost?

[Wagonholic]

APR doesn't sell their OTS kit any longer. If you want to change the subject from what you said before to now talk about tunes that's ok, but it is a different subject.

The GIAC and APR tunes are experiencing the same situation as the hardware products, the companies have moved on and last updated those tunes about a decade ago. It's easy enough to flash an ecu, so it makes sense to continue to offer something that doesn't require maintaining an inventory of. I do agree that in strict terms they are 'inferior', but I don't think by much. How much of a performance gain did you see when switching from the GIAC tune? What changed with the tune, did you see better results on the same boost?

I don't want to thread jack, but I'm more than happy to either discuss this somewhere else.

I would like to mention though that the GIAC tune/fueling kit wasn't BAD for what it is. It was still fast. But at the same boost levels, I was getting much better throttle response, MUCH better fuel economy, and the car just felt more lively. It was definitely noticeable in terms of power and speed, for the plain and simple fact that the OTS tunes are just that: off the shelf. They are made to be compatible with all cars, and therefore leave a lot on the table in terms of potential. Yes, in the long run it may be more reliable, but at the price point that they are currently offered at ($2k + for the entire kit, tune and components) is it even worth it?

Tuners such as Blake (etspec) can offer the same or similar hardware at a fraction at a price, which is the first plus. Secondly, these tunes are revised for each individual car, tailored for an owner's desires. This means the tune can take into account variations in hardware that may differ between cars. This allows a car to be run closer to its fullest potential. With all the benefits in terms of performance and price, it should be a no-brainer lol

[oppositelock]

We're into the fourth generation of tuners, comparing them with those that pioneered the product line and have since left the platform is a poor comparison.

Why? Lower price + better performance == win.

The fact that guys like Daz are making money doing custom tunes for $400 shows that there's demand and money to be made. APR and GIAC could have lowered prices and kept revising tunes to compete, but that's not their business model. They get in early, charge top dollar, and leave when their monopoly evaporates/lower cost options are available.

[Gotwake424]

Why? Lower price + better performance == win.

The fact that guys like Daz are making money doing custom tunes for $400 shows that there's demand and money to be made. APR and GIAC could have lowered prices and kept revising tunes to compete, but that's not their business model. They get in early, charge top dollar, and leave when their monopoly evaporates/lower cost options are available.

And not to mention most of the tunes from APR GIAC etc are "box" tunes and aren't tailored to your engine. Hence the need for logging with all the other guys

[FlyboyS4]

I don't want to thread jack, but I'm more than happy to either discuss this somewhere else.

I would like to mention though that the GIAC tune/fueling kit wasn't BAD for what it is. It was still fast. But at the same boost levels, I was getting much better throttle response, MUCH better fuel economy, and the car just felt more lively. It was definitely noticeable in terms of power and speed, for the plain and simple fact that the OTS tunes are just that: off the shelf. They are made to be compatible with all cars, and therefore leave a lot on the table in terms of potential. Yes, in the long run it may be more reliable, but at the price point that they are currently offered at ($2k + for the entire kit, tune and components) is it even worth it?

Tuners such as Blake (etspec) can offer the same or similar hardware at a fraction at a price, which is the first plus. Secondly, these tunes are revised for each individual car, tailored for an owner's desires. This means the tune can take into account variations in hardware that may differ between cars. This allows a car to be run closer to its fullest potential. With all the benefits in terms of performance and price, it should be a no-brainer lol

Is the discussion now going back to talking about a software/hardware product that APR no longer sells?

I'm not claiming that 10 years after APR left the platform that there aren't better options now available, my criticism was with comparing a 2015 product offering to one that was last revised in 2005 and is no longer offered.

Why? Lower price + better performance == win.

The fact that guys like Daz are making money doing custom tunes for $400 shows that there's demand and money to be made. APR and GIAC could have lowered prices and kept revising tunes to compete, but that's not their business model. They get in early, charge top dollar, and leave when their monopoly evaporates/lower cost options are available.

I believe there is a marginal performance gain from the 'custom' tunes outside of upping boost levels. What's the business model of the current, lower cost option, generation of tuners?

And not to mention most of the tunes from APR GIAC etc are "box" tunes and aren't tailored to your engine. Hence the need for logging with all the other guys

The K03 tunes that are built around stock injectors, stock maf, aftermarket DP's, such as what the APR/GIAC stage 2 tunes are designed for, how much more performance does the 'tailoring' get you at an equivalent boost profile level?

[Gotwake424]

Is the discussion now going back to talking about a software/hardware product that APR no longer sells?

I'm not claiming that 10 years after APR left the platform that there aren't better options now available, my criticism was with comparing a 2015 product offering to one that was last revised in 2005 and is no longer offered.



I believe there is a marginal performance gain from the 'custom' tunes outside of upping boost levels. What's the business model of the current, lower cost option, generation of tuners?



The K03 tunes that are built around stock injectors, stock maf, aftermarket DP's, such as what the APR/GIAC stage 2 tunes are designed for, how much more performance does the 'tailoring' get you at an equivalent boost profile level?

Not so much on K03's but on K04's I'd imagine you see a noticeable difference from engine to engine

[S4gasm2.7t]

Not so much on K03's but on K04's I'd imagine you see a noticeable difference from engine to engine

Also as the OP on this thread I will say that I did say that I was looking at the stage 3 fueling kit... so as ypu said considering k04 framed turbos probably quite a noticeable difference.

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[Drehmoment]

GIAC did release a E85/KO4 file a couple of years ago after some extensive testing/developing and it did put out impressive logs and 60-130 numbers. So not 300-400 bucks but it certainly maxed out a stock block car and then some and I have not seen a remote or Nef offspring tuners be as fast as that shop car was. I believe it was later marketed under "Emanuel design" or something like that.

[Drehmoment]

Found it, never ran GIAC but here it is http://www.emmanueledesign.com/colle...conversion-kit, not for the usual shoe string budget crowd .

[S4gasm2.7t]

GIAC did release a E85/KO4 file a couple of years ago after some extensive testing/developing and it did put out impressive logs and 60-130 numbers. So not 300-400 bucks but it certainly maxed out a stock block car and then some and I have not seen a remote or Nef offspring tuners be as fast as that shop car was. I believe it was later marketed under "Emanuel design" or something like that.

Not saying those aren't good numbers or that there is someone beating it that is a nef offspring tuner... but the main reason it's able to get that much power is the e85... basically like running race gas because of the octane rating equivalent. The downside is you require much more e85 to burn than gasoline so gas milage will go down, however if you live near an e85 pump, usually much cheaper than 91 or 93oct

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[Drehmoment]

^
I was addressing the "slow" claims of the so called one for all box tuners by some posters in this thread and that GIAC box one for all tune is certainly not slow on any fuel but it is $$ uncompetitive

[S4gasm2.7t]

Agreed definitely not slow but custom tuning could always be better.

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[Gotwake424]

^
I was addressing the "slow" claims of the so called one for all box tuners by some posters in this thread and that GIAC box one for all tune is certainly not slow on any fuel but it is $$ uncompetitive

Right so why would you ever play 1200$ for an e85 tune when the nef crowded has already proved they can lay a tune down just as good if not better for a third of the cost


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[Drehmoment]

Lol as usual it comes to the bean counters.....please provide a faster 60-130 time on a stock block E85 car......you can't ....the GIAC file is about as maxed out as they come , one step above is block windowing. The only argument you have is $$$.Fact.

[mikay1814]

Lol as usual it comes to the bean counters.....please provide a faster 60-130 time on a stock block E85 car......you can't ....the GIAC file is about as maxed out as they come , one step above is block windowing. The only argument you have is $$$.Fact.

I don't believe that 60-130 time is with a stock block. Sorry.

The giac car in the videos in this link has rods...
http://www.emmanueledesign.com/colle...conversion-kit

Why would they use a different car without rods to try and set a PJ k04 record...