Why is Audi not onboard with tunes? BMW Philosophy vs. Audi

[PBPhantom]

Having owned both BMW and Audi (this is my 1st Audi) I'm realizing how unwilling Audi's corporate culture is on performance modifications to their products. I would love to drive over to my local dealer and get stage 1, 2 or 3 upgrades installed by Audi techs and have it all covered under warranty without a second thought vs. having to "sneak around" and be at the mercy of a service tech's mood. How is it that BMW will offer (http://www.dinancars.com/) any number of performance mods without voiding warranties, yet a dumb air intake on an Audi platform runs the risk of TD1? I am aware of Audi's racing heritage, however, I'm sensing this company's targeted demographics are aimed at a different segment than driving enthusiast. I love both brands, but in a apple to apple user experience comparison, I'm not feeling the love with my silver rings.

thoughts?

[CanuckRS]

Having owned both BMW and Audi (this is my 1st Audi) I'm realizing how unwilling Audi's corporate culture is on performance modifications to their products. I would love to drive over to my local dealer and get stage 1, 2 or 3 upgrades installed by Audi techs and have it all covered under warranty without a second thought vs. having to "sneak around" and be at the mercy of a service tech's mood. How is it that BMW will offer (http://www.dinancars.com/) any number of performance mods without voiding warranties, yet a dumb air intake on an Audi platform runs the risk of TD1? I am aware of Audi's racing heritage, however, I'm sensing this company's targeted demographics are aimed at a different segment than driving enthusiast. I love both brands, but in a apple to apple user experience comparison, I'm not feeling the love with my silver rings.

thoughts?

IMHO Audi has not yet realized the potential business profits from the tuning side of things and are stuck in an old business model/mindset.

Punishing customers for loving their brand and wanting more out of it shouldn't be frowned upon, it should be viewed as just another revenue channel.

Audi would argue though that if you want more performance they have S models and RS models to suit your taste so they do cater to the performance-minded. Can't make everyone happy.

I believe this will change as they will be forced to do so with competition over time.

[DB22]

Audi builds these cars for the mass market and to gain a reputation of reliability. Modifications for more HP puts additional strain on components that may fail and Audi doesn't want to pick up the bill by allowing the warranty to be in force so they exempt themselves with a TD1.
My friends M5 V10 got up to 660 HP before the engine blew up. List replacement cost, including labor and warranty, for a new engine that is shipped tested from Germany is over $43K. BMW didn't cover it either because of the mods.

[Brooklyn]

Comes down to quality control, profit margins, and limiting warranty liability. Want more power - we've got a faster car for you at xxx price. Very little reason for them to do this, and a whole lot of reasons to avoid it.

[zcd2.7t]

... How is it that BMW will offer (http://www.dinancars.com/) any number of performance mods without voiding warranties...thoughts?

I think that you may be mistaken about how BMW and Dinan interact. Dinan offers its OWN warranty for Dinan items - BMW doesn't.

http://www.dinancars.com/warranty/

Notice that nowhere in that warranty statement does it say that anyone but Dinan backs the warranty.

[SunDevil]

Do some research on the failed relationship between Audi and Stasis. That will shed some light on the topic.

[name.goes.here]

Comes down to quality control, profit margins, and limiting warranty liability. Want more power - we've got a faster car for you at xxx price. Very little reason for them to do this, and a whole lot of reasons to avoid it.

^^This. X110%

[PBPhantom]

I think that you may be mistaken about how BMW and Dinan interact. Dinan offers its OWN warranty for Dinan items - BMW doesn't.

http://www.dinancars.com/warranty/

Notice that nowhere in that warranty statement does it say that anyone but Dinan backs the warranty.[/QUOTE]


I do understand this is covered by Dinan, and not BMW, however, the work is done at BMW and service is all in house... As for the "want more power? we have a fast car @ XXX price" I don't buy that. You can tune BMW 3, 4 or 5 without having to drop coin on the MSPORT versions of those. This is a cooperation between both companies. Admittedly, I have not done the Audi/Stasis research. In another thread...what really resonated was the fact that many do not experience the full potential of their C7 platform due to voided warranties that come w/ aftermarket tunes.

[VVG]

The point is that Audi should offer it's own "power packages" like Porsche and Mercedes. People will pay a premium for this with warranty coverage. History has shown that, at least at a stage 1 level, tunes do not hurt these cars. Longevity and reliability is really not impaired at all, so why not make some money and give customers peace of mind at the same time. Win-win situation in my mind.

[zcd2.7t]

The point is that Audi should offer it's own "power packages" like Porsche and Mercedes...

With all due respect, Porsche and MB offer either "de-tuned" standard versions of certain cars, or "higher-tuned" more expensive versions of certain cars, depending on how you look at it. Surely you don't think that "enthusiast" owners of those brands stop at the higher-tuned level? Many go tune their cars anyway, and where does this stop exactly?

Audi leaves headroom in their stock tunes - just like Porsche, MB and BMW sometimes do (witness the "PowerKit" that BMW belatedly started offering on the 335 after the B8 S4 summarily kicked the 335's a** when it was introduced).

In addition, stock-to-stock, virtually every Audi is now quicker than the competitive model from the other 2 companies. So really, as was said, what's their incentive? It doesn't matter how much faster/more powerful Audi would make any model - some would still complain. I suspect that in Audi's view, it's better to stick to what they do best, which is offer more-than-competitive performance at more-than-competitive pricing.

[zcd2.7t]

I do understand this is covered by Dinan, and not BMW, however, the work is done at BMW and service is all in house...

...as it once was with STaSIS and Audi dealers, but confusion about who would pay for what, with both sellers and buyers often not really understanding the nature of the relationship led to the END of the relationship and the demise of STaSIS.

BTW- not sure what Audi you own, but if it's an S6, then it's already quicker than the 550i or E550 you might have otherwise bought. You'd have to buy Dinan or other aftermarket tunes on the competitive cars to approach the S6's performance...

Same thing is true if you own a B8 S4 vs the competitive 335i or C350. (340i and C450 AMG are finally catching up to the B8 S4's performance, just in time for Audi to introduce the B9 S4, which is likely to raise the bar, AGAIN.)

[Kirks5oh]

How is it fair to modify a car beyond what the manufacturer has deemed safe, and expect them to cover damages when the car implodes??


Want a faster car, buy the s-version. Want a faster car yet, buy the rs version. Want a faster car yet, mod the rs version and take your chances. I've modded every car I've ever owned and been prepared to pay to fix it, should the car break. You have to pay to play. Everything I've ever read about Dinan indicates their warranties aren't shit.

[VVG]

How is it fair to modify a car beyond what the manufacturer has deemed safe, and expect them to cover damages when the car implodes??


Want a faster car, buy the s-version. Want a faster car yet, buy the rs version. Want a faster car yet, mod the rs version and take your chances. I've modded every car I've ever owned and been prepared to pay to fix it, should the car break. You have to pay to play. Everything I've ever read about Dinan indicates their warranties aren't shit.

I can't get an RS version of the car I want. Also, this has nothing to do with what the manufacturer considers safe. Look at what Audi did themselves in going from the C7 models to the C7.5 models. 30-40hp increase in hp from nothing more than changes in ECU programming.

I had a stage 3+ B5 S4 that ran flawlessly for the 66,000 miles that I owned it. The car then ran flawlessly for another 60,000 miles for the next owner. This is on a stock motor. Thousands upon thousands of ECU tunes have been done by people with no problems whatsoever in terms of reliability.

The issue is more that these engines need to be de-tuned so that people who abuse and/or don't properly maintain their car still won't have problems.

[DB22]

How is it fair to modify a car beyond what the manufacturer has deemed safe, and expect them to cover damages when the car implodes??


Want a faster car, buy the s-version. Want a faster car yet, buy the rs version. Want a faster car yet, mod the rs version and take your chances. I've modded every car I've ever owned and been prepared to pay to fix it, should the car break. You have to pay to play. Everything I've ever read about Dinan indicates their warranties aren't shit.

Excuse my English but if "they aren't shit", what are they, great?.

[DB22]

I can't get an RS version of the car I want. Also, this has nothing to do with what the manufacturer considers safe. Look at what Audi did themselves in going from the C7 models to the C7.5 models. 30-40hp increase in hp from nothing more than changes in ECU programming.

.

Doesn't the Q5 "S" version raise the bar again to 354HP? Yet another tweak to the 3.0T.

[SunDevil]

If the tunes are so safe .... why don't the aftermarket tuners WARRANTY their product? Answer: They would go out of business like Stasis.

[DB22]

The aftermarket tuners do warranty their product, they just don't warranty the device their product is utilized in.

Adding torque and HP is not the answer to performance. Performance includes a balance of components, E.G. the S6 has more power so it therefore has more braking power. Muscle cars are a great example of a cheap solution: just add monstrous amounts of power, think 1969 Z28 but then forget that it cannot use it because of axle tramp and crap brakes.

Obviously the 3.0T can make 354HP but does anyone know what else has been changed to accommodate the additional HP?

[b6onboost]

The BMW-Dinan relationship ended just like the Audi-Stasis one did. Audi and BMW partnered with tuners to offer 'warrantied' tuning options sold through dealerships. The aftermarket parts were warrantied by the tuners and the OEM parts by the manufacturer. The problem was whenever there was an issue, they blamed each other's parts, not wanting to accept responsibility for the repair. There's validity in both sides. Tuners didn't want to pay for OEM part failures and manufactures figured the OEM parts failed due to the modification. Owners were stuck in the middle with a broken car, 2 warranties, yet neither would cover the repair.

If they did offer in-house, fully warrantied tuning...how much would you pay?

An APR tune for a 3.0T is like $1200. You willing to pay 2-3x for similar (or more conservative) yet maintain warranty? Would it be worth paying 2-3x aftermarket cost for an intake, exhaust, ect? You'd quickly be building your new A6 up to the cost of an S6, yet the S model still is better in many ways.

[zcd2.7t]

The BMW-Dinan relationship ended just like the Audi-Stasis one did. Audi and BMW partnered with tuners to offer 'warrantied' tuning options sold through dealerships. The aftermarket parts were warrantied by the tuners and the OEM parts by the manufacturer. The problem was whenever there was an issue, they blamed each other's parts, not wanting to accept responsibility for the repair. There's validity in both sides. Tuners didn't want to pay for OEM part failures and manufactures figured the OEM parts failed due to the modification. Owners were stuck in the middle with a broken car, 2 warranties, yet neither would cover the repair.

If they did offer in-house, fully warrantied tuning...how much would you pay?

An APR tune for a 3.0T is like $1200. You willing to pay 2-3x for similar (or more conservative) yet maintain warranty? Would it be worth paying 2-3x aftermarket cost for an intake, exhaust, ect? You'd quickly be building your new A6 up to the cost of an S6, yet the S model still is better in many ways.

Well said, and exactly correct.

[OmaHahn]

I don't get it either! Why is it that Ford offers Ford Racing parts, tunes, performance packages, etc then? There's other manufacturers out there that cater and welcome their customers to tune their cars (just can't remember which ones offer it) but I know I saw this on Velocity. Audi needs to stop putting starch in its underwear and let loose a little and if they don't want to relinquish control of their cars, then offer an Audi Racing option like Ford! And call it, "Audi A$$ Kickin' Plus"

[VVG]

If the tunes are so safe .... why don't the aftermarket tuners WARRANTY their product? Answer: They would go out of business like Stasis.

I am saying that tunes are safe based on actual historical evidence of the fact that thousands upon thousands of tuned cars have experienced no issues whatsoever. Tuners don't offer warranties because it is too expensive to do so. The cost of the product would go up significantly. Same is true for the price of your stock car. Part of the price is to provide warranty coverage. If there was no warranty requirement, the car would cost a lot less.

And how does a tuner know that if you did have some kind of failure, that it is not due to an inherently defective part in the car to begin with? From an OEM standpoint, an S car is a tuned A car. An RS car is a tuned S car.

If there is to be a partnership between private tuning companies and an auto manufacturer, there needs to be a clear delineation of who will handle what sort of problems under their respective warranties.

[bobamoo]

The point is that Audi should offer it's own "power packages" like Porsche and Mercedes. People will pay a premium for this with warranty coverage. History has shown that, at least at a stage 1 level, tunes do not hurt these cars. Longevity and reliability is really not impaired at all, so why not make some money and give customers peace of mind at the same time. Win-win situation in my mind.

Volvo has Polestar, tunes for many models, and high performance special edition models of the S60/V60. Three years ago when I decided to start modding my C30, I looked at aftermarket versus Polestar (which had just been launched). The aftermarket tune available at the time was from Elevate. An excellent product, but I went with Polestar, as it was Volvo (Polestar was Volvo's racing partner in Sweden). Even though it wasn't as aggressive as the Elevate tune, and it cost more, it was Volvo. Installed by the dealer and covered by my 5 year Safe & Sound warranty. A win-win for sure.

I really don't understand Audi's stance on tuning. They are leaving money on the table, and creating ill will for many owners. If there was an Audi tune available, I would have gladly bought it instead of APR for many reasons. Oh well, Audi's loss.

[VeryBadman]

In Europe many Audi dealerships offer ABT tune and performance parts but believe me, you guys will never want to pay extra money for ABT's stuffs even though they would keep your warranty intact.

[yas]

What really perplexes me about this is Audi's firm stance. How much money do they realistically lose from warranty work on tuned vehicles?

A hell of a lot less than they're going to end up paying the US government, that's certain.

[Kirks5oh]

I can't get an RS version of the car I want. Also, this has nothing to do with what the manufacturer considers safe. Look at what Audi did themselves in going from the C7 models to the C7.5 models. 30-40hp increase in hp from nothing more than changes in ECU programming.

I had a stage 3+ B5 S4 that ran flawlessly for the 66,000 miles that I owned it. The car then ran flawlessly for another 60,000 miles for the next owner. This is on a stock motor. Thousands upon thousands of ECU tunes have been done by people with no problems whatsoever in terms of reliability.

The issue is more that these engines need to be de-tuned so that people who abuse and/or don't properly maintain their car still won't have problems.

Then tune the car and don't worry about it. if what you say is true---thousands upon thousands of tunes done, never with an issue---tuners would be dumb not to warranty their product. Do you have any idea how many more people would pull the trigger on a tune if there was a full warranty should something go wrong---even though nothing would ever go wrong (your words).

You're claiming that engines are de-tuned from the factory to avoid abuse? You mean like launching the car, or racing it, or running it wide open to 130mph repeatedly? Why the hell else would you get the car tuned?

[Kirks5oh]

I don't get it either! Why is it that Ford offers Ford Racing parts, tunes, performance packages, etc then? There's other manufacturers out there that cater and welcome their customers to tune their cars (just can't remember which ones offer it) but I know I saw this on Velocity. Audi needs to stop putting starch in its underwear and let loose a little and if they don't want to relinquish control of their cars, then offer an Audi Racing option like Ford! And call it, "Audi A$$ Kickin' Plus"

Because the percentage of people who are looking to modify their mustangs is much higher than the number of people looking to throw headers and a cutout on their a6. It is what it is. I'm secretly glad there's not a huge aftermarket for my rs7. It avoids modding the piss out of my daily driver.

[Sean@APR]

If the tunes are so safe .... why don't the aftermarket tuners WARRANTY their product? Answer: They would go out of business like Stasis.

Stasis had other issues. The real reason why is that these are expensive cars and people expect a warranty to cover everything (even abuse). Beyond that, it would raise the price significantly. Check out the price of Dinan stuff, it's quite a bit higher than every Audi tuner. Most of that difference is the warranty.

In Europe many Audi dealerships offer ABT tune and performance parts but believe me, you guys will never want to pay extra money for ABT's stuffs even though they would keep your warranty intact.

This.. exactly.

[OmaHahn]

Because the percentage of people who are looking to modify their mustangs is much higher than the number of people looking to throw headers and a cutout on their a6. It is what it is. I'm secretly glad there's not a huge aftermarket for my rs7. It avoids modding the piss out of my daily driver.

Yes - when you catch the, "mod bug," it's incurable!!!

[VVG]

Then tune the car and don't worry about it. if what you say is true---thousands upon thousands of tunes done, never with an issue---tuners would be dumb not to warranty their product. Do you have any idea how many more people would pull the trigger on a tune if there was a full warranty should something go wrong---even though nothing would ever go wrong (your words).

You're claiming that engines are de-tuned from the factory to avoid abuse? You mean like launching the car, or racing it, or running it wide open to 130mph repeatedly? Why the hell else would you get the car tuned?

1. The reasons tuners don't offer a warranty is because these are basically small companies, and even a few claims made could have a significant impact on their business through both direct costs and bad publicity. They simply can not afford it unless they significantly raise their prices. There is always the issue of a part failing because it was inherently defective, but now the tune gets blamed. Who is responsible? It can become a legal mess.

2. The reason OEMs don't want honor a warranty on modified car is simple. They want to avoid paying for anything that they don't have to. Do you think any manufacturer would even offer a warranty if they didn't have to? If a car is modified, it is too easy to blame a failure on the modification.

3. As for Audi in particular, in their minds, and legitimately so, they do offer "tuned" cars. The S and RS cars are their tuned cars.

4. If people do "street level" mods (ECU, suspension, etc) and then think that they can repeatedly hammer their car at the drag strip or race track, they are fooling themselves. This furthers the reason why tuners don't offer a warranty. To reliably build a race car or drag monster requires big-time mods. Most people who mod their passenger car are looking to have a little added performance fun from time to time as well as to change subjective driving qualities.

[yas]

I kind of disagree with point 3 there, @VVG. S cars are a higher-performance engine option. To my knowledge, they've never shared an engine with their corresponding A car (ignoring some of the crazy options that exist in the EU now). Up until the C7, the RS cars have largely had completely different engines as well.

Point being, it's more than just software tunes that differentiate the product lines. It's a higher-performance product.

I've long believed that Audi should offer a "plus" model across the spectrum. A slightly higher performance option, achieved with software or minor hardware upgrades alone.

Splitting hairs, but when you're stuck in traffic on I-70 as a passenger, these are the things you start thinking about…

[AudiA6A5]

I kind of disagree with point 3 there, @VVG. S cars are a higher-performance engine option. To my knowledge, they've never shared an engine with their corresponding A car (ignoring some of the crazy options that exist in the EU now). Up until the C7, the RS cars have largely had completely different engines as well.

Point being, it's more than just software tunes that differentiate the product lines. It's a higher-performance product.

I've long believed that Audi should offer a "plus" model across the spectrum. A slightly higher performance option, achieved with software or minor hardware upgrades alone.

Splitting hairs, but when you're stuck in traffic on I-70 as a passenger, these are the things you start thinking about…

I thought A4/5 has a 3.0T option....S4/5 comes w/ the 3.0T. Same for Q5 and SQ5

[zcd2.7t]

I thought A4/5 has a 3.0T option....S4/5 comes w/ the 3.0T. Same for Q5 and SQ5

A 4/5: In other parts of the world, yes, not in the US.

[SPONGE]

I love Audi's but to say they don't come under powered, is a lie. The 3.0T was the base engine (A6) until 2012. No the A6 shares the same engine as the A3 & A4? Come on...
I Know the BMW has a 4 cylinder in the 5 Series line however they has a boosted 6 and boosted 8 options as well; with a crowded after market.
Audi we have the household names of APR & GIAC (name becoming less popular) Revo, Unitronics... There are others rounding up the rear which are probably equally as good but name isn't as big: JHM, Eurocharged (heavy in benz), ABT...
I remember back in the days it was PES (GIAC) vs APR only... Everyone scared to try something new...

Sorry went on a rant...

Companies only like to warranty things that will not break during the warranty period. LOL. More power equals higher chance of failure, more failures more trips to the stealership, more trips to the stealership more unhappy customers, unhappy customers are not loyal customers. Audi does not want that.



Audi is comfortable in it's lane. It provides a perfect blend of everything...

[dgszweda]

Back to the OP, he is misplaced in his understanding. First, BMW does not authorize tuning to their cars. People will have the exact same warranty issues with BMW as you do with Audi. I have been there already on a number of BMW products. Second, BMW dealerships do not install Dinan parts. Dealerships that have a relationship with Dinan install parts on cars. These are not the same thing and was exactly how STassis worked. Third, BMW doesn't warranty any Dinan part, nor do they warranty any items that failed as a result of Dinan work. In most ways, Audi and BMW are the same in this regard. They are building higher and higher performance vehicles and tuners are pushing the envelope more and more. Heck we have 1,000 hp RS7's floating around. Warranty work cuts deep into the pockets of car companies and they are continually working to reduce the costs and frequency of warranty work in order to drive profits up and reduce costs. In addition, most tuners spend a pittance on R&D compared to the car manufacturers. APR, Dinan, GIAC spend peanuts compared to what BMW M-division spends on their R&D or BMW spends on their motorsports endeavors. They in no way are going to pay for damage to their vehicle by every mom and pop tuning shop, or worse yet, by homemade tuning by consumers.

To be honest, these guys are putting into place very good business practices. Tuning is fun, and I enjoy doing it, but if you want to go that route be prepared to pay if needed. a 100hp increase is not just the $1,500 tuning that you are paying for, but also potential warranty work. Many consumers have very short sighted views on this. They expect to pay someone like APR, $1,500 and view that as a good deal, but then expect the car company to pay for any damages. I guess the good news is that in most cases the reputable tunes are holding up better and better every year.

[jaws12audi]

This is an interesting discussion divided into 2 camps: enthusiasts vs sound business people.

As a business person thinking like a car manufacturer, you are driven by profit and pushed to fight against eroding margins. The manufacturers already make their profit when the cars are sold to the dealers. It is predetermined. Warranty work is factored into all price modeling, as are incentives and dealer spiffs. For them to cover a car that was tuned or modified away from approved specs the variable costs of potential repairs would blow up financial modeling and profit pojections.

The dealers are really the party that would benefit most financially being able to offer tunes just like any aftermarket program they sell (tire &a wheel insurance, extended warranties, padded financing, etc...).

But, as a point of fact, before AMG was part of MB, they were just a 3rd party "tuner". The M division was the 1st real in-house performance division.

And BMW does authorize tuners with warranty coverage. Think Alpina

[dgszweda]

And BMW does authorize tuners with warranty coverage. Think Alpina

Alpina is not a tuner. It is actually a car manufacturer. The cars are not BMW's, but Alpina's. The warranty and all work is covered by Alpina, but certain BMW dealerships are authorized to carry out the work. The closest one that came to a tuner with warranty coverage was JCW and Mini Cooper.

[akh23456]

I think the problem with Audi is or at least the shitty dealership near me is they hate any mods. The dealership tried to blame my aftermarket exhaust install for a broken prop staff. When i owned my e90 m3 with a aftermarket supercharger i had a common issue with the m3s come up. The Bmw dealership did it under good will and they didn't even say anything about my supercharger. If i had that happen to my Audi they would flag me td1 and make me pay for everything.

[jaws12audi]

Let me ask the question this way.

If you decided to sell your home to me, and I bought it after having the proper inspections done, your responsibility for that house is over once we close the transaction.

Well, if I decide to do an addition on the house, and, if during its construction, the roof collapses, should I be able to make you pay for the new roof?

[dgszweda]

I think the problem with Audi is or at least the shitty dealership near me is they hate any mods. The dealership tried to blame my aftermarket exhaust install for a broken prop staff. When i owned my e90 m3 with a aftermarket supercharger i had a common issue with the m3s come up. The Bmw dealership did it under good will and they didn't even say anything about my supercharger. If i had that happen to my Audi they would flag me td1 and make me pay for everything.

I think part of it is the dealership and part of it is the time that has passed. It wasn't that long ago that dealers and the manufacturer didn't really care that much about mods. But when people are now getting to the point that we are at with the S6, where we can swap out the turbos with RS6 turbos, new ECU, updates to the transmission and we are taking a car into the mid 10 seconds, we are really engineering some extreme elements, way outside of what the manufacturer wants to deal with. Sol for them the safe line is just no mods. You can definitely understand out of the 100's of thousands of cars they sell worldwide, and the fact that they already provide tuned cars (such as the RS, M, AMG...) that it is just easier to draw the safe line, instead of dealing with the thousands of exceptions. I also agree that some dealers are playing it safe as well. They don't want to do the work, only to get denied later on by the manufacturer for reimbursement. All three of the car companies tuners are really pushing out some great cars. Your RS7 was doing 11.4 second 1/4 miles. That was unheard of from a factory car just a few years ago. Your RS7 is significantly faster than a Porsche 959 and just about as quick as a McLaren F1.

[akh23456]

Let me ask the question this way.

If you decided to sell your home to me, and I bought it after having the proper inspections done, your responsibility for that house is over once we close the transaction.

Well, if I decide to do an addition on the house, and, if during its construction, the roof collapses, should I be able to make you pay for the new roof?

No but i get where your going with this. If i blew the engine or something exhaust related i would pay it out of my own pocket. "You gotta Pay to Play" i wouldn't make try and make Audi cover it under warranty. The biggest thing is Bmw is mod friendly and Audi isn't.