Help! No clutch after installing projectb5 clutch

[S4tech2]

So I am trying to finish up my stage 3 build and I keep having problem after problem. I installed a new projectb5 clutch kit with a fidanza lightweight flywheel. I never disconnected the the slave cylinder line I just unbolted it and removed it. After I've put it all back together the clutch will not disengage. The pedal feels horrible almost like it has air in the system but I never opened the hydraulic system. Has anyone else had this issue?

[Jake@JHM]

Were the pressure plate bolts torqued properly?

[fixn2xlr8]

If its not too late the only regret I have stage 3 is the LWFW.

[S4tech2]

Pressure plates bolts torqued to 20nm per Elsa pro (Audi information).

[rguil]

If im not mistaken the project b5 clutch comes with a rs4 style pressure plate.
That pressure plate has a self adjusting mechanism, you need to ensure that it is properly aligned before bolting it on to your flywheel or you wont have a clutch. If you didnt do this you will have to pull the trans out. I made this mistake too, thats how you learn on audis nevertheless.

http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng86.shtml

[S4tech2]

I understand what you are saying but from what I remember and the pictures on the website this pressure plate is not self adjusting. Is there any way that air could have gotten into the system? I am a technician at an Audi dealer but I don't have much experience with these cars as no one brings theirs in. The special throw out bearing supplied by project b5 was installed properly and the pressure plate was installed and torqued by applying even pressure all the way around. I just cannot figure out why the clutch won't release. Ident project b5 an email describing my problem, hopefully they will reply soon.

[treysgreen]

If im not mistaken the project b5 clutch comes with a rs4 style pressure plate.
That pressure plate has a self adjusting mechanism, you need to ensure that it is properly aligned before bolting it on to your flywheel or you wont have a clutch. If you didnt do this you will have to pull the trans out. I made this mistake too, thats how you learn on audis nevertheless.

http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng86.shtml

Added to s4mods.com =)

[zillarob]

I think those are usually a knockoff of a cm fx400 with a non-sac sachs pp.
20nm is light and may be a prob down the road if they come loose. I do 30ftlb on steel fw and 25ftlb on alum. Loctite for all.

This type off pp also needs a special tob.

No clutch as in it just slips, or wont disengage?

[S4tech2]

It won't disengage, with the car on the rack you can get first gear but even with the clutch all the way to the floor the wheels are still spinning.

[zillarob]

Did you use oem bolts on the fidanza? The p:b5 clutch hub is flat and the springs can contact the heads and hang it up.

Other thing is too much angle while installing, or ramming the trans home with the belhousing bolts warping the disk and causing it to drag.

[Royal769sr]

No one mentioned you could have misaligned the rod when installing the slave?
Is it a stock slave? Those are a little weak at the c clip.
If not a sac, then that's all I can think of.

[zillarob]

Hed hava puddle under the car if something was wrong there.

[S4tech2]

I did not use oem flywheel bolts due to the fact I saw that it was hitting. The slave shouldn't be misaligned. It would push back out while installing.

[julex]

did you get tall TOB with that clutch?

[S4tech2]

Yes I used the tob that was supplied by project b5 which is much thicker than the oem one.

[Corradovolksb]

Did you try bleeding the clutch? I know you didn't disconnect the line but air could have got past the slave rod deal with it fully extended. Try bleeding it and see if it gets better. Otherwise you will need to pull the trans to inspect further.

[jballou]

Did you install the Clutch disc in backwards? Seen that before. People think they can only go in one way, but believe me, somehow people can and do install them in backwards. But then again, you said that the peddle is sloppy. I would try to bleed the slave first (even if you never cracked it open,) if that doesn't work, looks like you are pulling the motor/trans again.

[Jake@JHM]

I think those are usually a knockoff of a cm fx400 with a non-sac sachs pp.
20nm is light and may be a prob down the road if they come loose. I do 30ftlb on steel fw and 25ftlb on alum. Loctite for all.

This type off pp also needs a special tob.

No clutch as in it just slips, or wont disengage?

We do 23-25 ftlbs as well.

20nm is 15ftlbs, which is nowhere near correct torque


Edit* original converted to nano

[Monty23]

I do 30 ft-lbs and red loctite. My PP bolts loosened with the 22 nm Bentley spec.

[slow ride]

That has to be a mistake in Bentley.

[Jake@JHM]

That has to be a mistake in Bentley.

Bentley has an error on the 4.2l timing chain installation as well.

[Nollywood]

If you opt to install the clutch slave cylinder whilst it's under pressure - ie you left the hard line connected, you have to be really careful when feeding the plunger into the recess.

Whilst fighting against hydraulic pressure, it's all too easy for the plunger to miss the dimpled recess on the clutch release fork. If this happens, the plunger end will get jammed between the fork and the transmission case. You won't be able to disengage the clutch if this happens.

As for aluminium LWFW, that's material for another thread.

[S4tech2]

I have not bled the the slave yet even though that's the first thing I thought of when I felt the clutch pedal. With this clutch disc if I installed it backwards I should be shot, this disc will not go on but one way. I will try to bleed the clutch as its kind of pita to get to. And 20nm is around 15 ft lbs which does seem kind of wimpy but I went with the information that Audi has available.

[zillarob]

I have used 22nm and loctite quite a few times with no prob.
It finally caught up with me though, and 25/30ftlb ever since.

The bolts that hold the driveshaft on are the same size so not quite sure why they would go so light on the pp.
I think spark plugs are spec'd at 22nm

[rguil]

Like a guy above said, ensure your slave is properly installed as well. you could remove the slave and install with the bleeder open to ensure proper install. Gravity bleed with the rear jacked up should be fine for a decent clutch feel

[Mille Bornes]

Yeah, I learned the hard way on the pressure plate bolts too. Did my clutch at 22nm, no loctite and not very long later I was doing it again lol.

If the slave missed the fork you should have fluid everywhere... but it also seems exceptionally unlikely that air would somehow introduce itself into the system. But it never hurts to start simple. Pull the slave, be certain it's in properly, bleed it for good measure and see what happens. Otherwise, take it all back apart and hope you see something obvious lol.

Practice makes perfect, it's like flat rate practice lol

[Nollywood]

It is possible for the slave plunger to miss the fork, yet NOT lose any fluid, if the plunger is trapped between the fork and transmission case. In which case the piston won't over extend to the point of the seal popping out of the cylinder bore.

It'll still cause a lousy pedal feel, and a clutch that will NOT disengage.

[Scotty@Advanced]

I do 30 ft-lbs and red loctite. My PP bolts loosened with the 22 nm Bentley spec.

We do 20 ft/lbs with blue locktite, never had a problem.

[S4tech2]

I bled the clutch with no help, noticed where there had been a puddle under the car and it was coming from the bell housing. Pain in the ass as it is I guess I'll be putting in another slave. Where does everyone get the medal slave cylinder from?

[Peter Griffin]

http://www.uspmotorsports.com/Drivet...onversion.html

[Mr. Merk]

It is possible for the slave plunger to miss the fork, yet NOT lose any fluid, if the plunger is trapped between the fork and transmission case. In which case the piston won't over extend to the point of the seal popping out of the cylinder bore.

It'll still cause a lousy pedal feel, and a clutch that will NOT disengage.

THIS^

[julex]

THIS^

Well, he already reported a puddle so obviously it is a typical rod miss with ensuing ejection taking place.

[S4tech2]

Hate to bring it up again but I have found why my clutch metal is lousy. After blowing out the second slave cylinder I removed it and inspected the hole. Turns out I can use a pick and move the clutch fork the approximate distance of the slave cylinder travel. With the clutch for against the pressure plate the slave cylinder is almost fully extended resulting in me either missing the fork or the slave to just not have enough travel to do it's job. Now the question is do I have an issue with the clutch or the flywheel. I have not yet removed the trans due to work load and I can not contact the person I bought the flywheel from or nick audlee at project b5. Could I have possibly gotten a flywheel from an a4? Or does this clutch not even work with a lightweight flywheel?

[zillarob]

You prob just going to have to bite the bullet and pull it out. Good excuse to retorque the pp bolts.
Take lots of pics for us.

If the little black plastic wedge thing at the other end of the throw out lever is broke/missing, can allow the slave to overtravel and blow.

[rani_aridi]

Forgive me if you said this before, but what throw out bearing are you using? It seems like that's the issue here.

[S4tech2]

The throw out bearing is the "special" one supplied by project b5 specifically for this clutch. Does any one know the difference in an a4 and s4 flywheel? I would imagine I would get crank sensor faults cuz I would imagine the the tone ring would be different but that's just me. If work allows I will try to pull the trans today.

[zillarob]

Forget about the fw, that would be tough to do.

[naudlee]

The clutch works with dual mass or lightweight flywheels alike
-The only issue I have EVER seen someone report is the flywheel bolts hitting the disc's hub... fixed by chamfering or countersinking the flywheel bolts pending your flywheel of choice.

Think about it, the aftermarket flywheels for the 2.7 are designed to use a factory clutch kit if you desired. Be it TTV, Fidanza, Clutchmasters, etc. The flywheel is not your issue unless whomever you bought it from sent you something we haven't seen or a damaged/inferior item, who truly knows

The X-kit from PB5 comes with a spacer style TOB that Southbend MFG's. Its not cheap & they are specific to the clutch kit. A factory TOB wont suffice & will cause you a headache.

You've already reported a big no-no with your install:
1: (failed alignment of the slave = rod shot & puddle) QUOTE" I bled the clutch with no help, noticed where there had been a puddle under the car and it was coming from the bell housing. Pain in the ass as it is I guess I'll be putting in another slave. Where does everyone get the medal slave cylinder from?"/QUOTE

I'd pull the transmission and inspect the fork/the pivot for it/etc. Shooting a slave rod missile /binding it and mashing the pedal / etc could all have fubarred something.

I hope you figure out your issue, this clutch kit is well proven to work fine.

[julex]

" Turns out I can use a pick and move the clutch fork the approximate distance of the slave cylinder travel."

Sounds like a fork problem. You need to pull the tranny now and inspect all the parts to see if anything detached, especially the fork and its pivot.

[S4tech2]

Pulled the tranny and found no issue with the clutch fork, tob, or flywheel. I compared the flywheel to the dual mass and measures identical. I did find a problem with the pressure plate, the fingers on the pressure plate are way to far in. I emailed nick audlee again with the update. I'll post pictures after alittle while.