Timing help!

[KittyJets]

Hi! So my cam gear broke (on my 2001 Audi A4 Quattro b5) due to the fact of being in a fender bender! so I need to replace it, but during the wreck the cover that goes in front of it shattered into pieces! Do I need to have the covers to time it correctly? Because I ordered a repair manual book and it stated that the timing marks are on the cover...? Is this true??? Please help! Any advice is well appreciated!

(Also If I do need the cover(s), what does it look like and how do I find it/them!?)

[KittyJets]

It's a 1.8t btw! Sorry forgot to put that in there!

[RagtagXMASTER]

the timing marks are on the cam gear itself and the valve cover not the plastic cover. the plastic cover is just a peice that prevents dirt and debriis or something that can run your belt off your car

[walky_talky20]

No. You can successfully time the engine without using the marks on the covers at all. However, the covers are VERY important for keeping foreign objects out of the timing belt area. Anything that falls into that area can cause the belt to jump and bend your valves.

[KittyJets]

Thank you for clearing that up! I was a little confused at first lol does anyone know what this cover looks like so I can replace it!? I've tried looking online, and eBay and Ecs tuning and every one I find looks completely different than the other. I would look at the one that came off my car but like I said, it's in pieces!

Also If you've timed a 1.8t before is there any tips you'd like to share?? I'm going to be timing it this weekend, hoping all is good with the engine *Fingers Crossed*

[walky_talky20]

This is the plastic (upper) cover:
https://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Sit..._108_C/ES5819/

This is the middle cover (metal):
https://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Sit...47_F/ES251388/

This is the lower cover (metal)
https://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Sit...75_B/ES279264/

The only timing mark on the cover is the crank mark on the lower cover. To get to TDC without that mark, you line up the top tooth with the "rib" on the aluminum front cover. It looks like this:



You can also stick a dowel or screwdriver down the #1 plug hole and then rotate to find TDC.

[KittyJets]

Thank you very much! I appreciate the help! I'll keep you posted on how it goes on Saturday when I get the chance to time it ☺️☺️

[KittyJets]

So got the car timed and the belt on, but as usual nothing can ever go as smooth as planned😞 The timing belt tensioner broke! Can I buy that all by itself or will I have to buy a kit to replace it???

[Bordom]

So got the car timed and the belt on, but as usual nothing can ever go as smooth as planned😞 The timing belt tensioner broke! Can I buy that all by itself or will I have to buy a kit to replace it???

You can buy it separately

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

[KittyJets]

Okay sooo we had a minor set back. I went to go start the car and it sounds like it's wanting to turn over but it won't. Could this be the timing? Or the fact that some sensors aren't plugged in? Or that we accidentally broke the n75 valve? We already ordered a new one (n75) but could that be the reason??

[nynoah]

was the car running when it was hit? Because by the sound of the severity of this whole thing, I question whether you bent valves. I also question whether you really got the timing right too.

[redline380]

Yeah, I'm surprised nobody cared to mention OP bent the valves on the head (if the car was running, and I presume it to be).

Hate to tell ya OP, but it looks like you will be needing to look for another cylinder head

[KittyJets]

Yes the car was running, but shut off immediately. We don't think the valves are messed up because the impact was at a slight down force because the car I hit was an suv so it was taller, therefore wasn't a direct straight hit on the motor.
The way the cam gear broke was it broke around the spokes. The circle part just snapped off the spokes. It was all still there and aligned (just spokes and bolt)
So we replaced the gear and timed it all. And also bought a new radiator. So The car cranks but it won't start. I'm just trying to find any other reason that could cause it to not start before jumping to the conclusion that the whole cylinder head has to be replaced.

[Rodgman15]

Doesn't matter the angle of the accident, you broke the cam gear you probably bent valves.

[KittyJets]

I would post pics but idk how

[KittyJets]

Not what I want to hear lol damn well I'm guessing to check that I'm gonna have to take the motor apart???

[redline380]

We don't think the valves are messed up because the impact was at a slight down force because the car I hit was an suv so it was taller, therefore wasn't a direct straight hit on the motor.

LOL got a good chuckle out of me!

Dude, the valves are bent. You don't have to take the motor apart, but you will need a new cylinder head, or to replace the bent (most likely exhaust valves) at the very least.

In all my years of audi-ing, which isn't even that many, I have personally seen a good number of heads with bent valves. What I simply can't wrap my mind around is why it is usually only the exhaust valves that bend.

Interested to see pics once you can figure out how to get them up. From the way it sounds, the engine took a pretty good hit. Surprised nothing else is bent/cracked. Still trying to figure out what "circle part just snapped off the spokes" means. Was it in two pieces completely? As in, the exhaust cam and the timing belt were spinning at different rates? If that is the case, the valves are bent.

[Davdraco1]

I sheared the the timing gear at 7k rpm. Took the plugs out and put a camera down into the cylinder and it looks like only the middle intake valve it.

[walky_talky20]

Verify your timing is correct (we can help if you show us some photos), and then check compression. Bent valves will give zero compression. You really don't need a compression tester to figure out if you have zero compression or not, it's quite obvious. It will sound like this. Or this.

There are other things that can cause low compression other than bent valves, so if you want to confirm 100%, you can pull the spark plugs out and shine a flashlight down the plug holes to look at the top of the pistons. Rolling the engine so the pistons are at a better height will help. But all you really need is to confirm that you have at least one nice gouge in one piston. Then you know the head has to come off. You can look at pictures of 1.8T pistons that hit valves to see what the typical marks look like. There are cameras and such that are made for this inspection, but the marks are usually quite visible by eye on the 1.8T.

[nynoah]

You can also check your compression too

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[KittyJets]

That's where the cam gear broke off, it only left that middle piece in tact

[KittyJets]

This was the damage to my car when I wrecked it

[Corrado_Guy]

If the motor will not turn over then remove the plugs and see how they look, they typically get damaged if the valves bend and is an easy check. If this fails to find anything then use a flashlight and see if you can see any damage or bent valves. If you have access to a bore scope where you can look into the cylinder then you may see more damage. These are interference motors and if the belt breaks the valves will kiss the pistons and typically automatics do better in failures than manuals but they both will do damage. If the motor is binding when turning over then either you were lucky and the valves did not get bent but you did the timing wrong or you have bent valves and they are stopping the valves from hitting TDC. Do not try turning it over because toy will only make things work. Go over all of your work and if it is lined up perfectly then look for bent valves. You can also damage or score con-rod bearings if the engine was under a lot of load but this is less common.

[KittyJets]

This was us replacing the cam gear, and stuff.

[walky_talky20]

Dude...you have Diverter Valve hooked to your PCV system.



just FYI

[KittyJets]

What is the proper way to hook it up?? We didn't mess with it at all lol so it must have been like that when we bought it. I haven't owned the car very long so we never messed with anything up until now

[Rodgman15]

Dude...you have Diverter Valve hooked to your PCV system.



just FYI

Oh good lawd.

[Davdraco1]

The car ran okay like that?

[nynoah]

the mystery.... what is located where the DV should be?

[Rodgman15]

Pancake valve? Switched around? Who knows lol.

OP - http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?t=7376353

[walky_talky20]

I will bet this car has 2 Diverter valves, so it goes twice as fast.

What is most troubling is this:
- Under boost conditions the "secondary" diverter valve is closed. It's a piston type, so we can assume it is actually closing pretty tight.
- The PCV (bleeder) valve is also closed under boost.
- Car makes a lot of blow-by during boost.
- Where does it all go?

My guess is the PCV system is completely exploded anyway, so it's just venting to atmosphere and the fuel trims are totally whack. That, or it already blew out the rear main seal. lolz

OP: We is gonna help you get this sorted. We *may* have a chuckle first, though. No worries.

Also, this PCV/DV issue is quite small compared to your bent valves. It's like a $50 problem compared to a $2000 problem.

[redline380]

Somebody must have thought the pancake valve was the DV. Too cute!

As walky said, don't even worry about that yet. Confirm the valves are bent and remove the head. Because you have an 01, you can find a used head on many cars. Literally any 1.8t 20v head besides an AEB will work. If you find an ATW, you will have to switch over the CCT though. Besides that, look at jetta's and passat's even.

Or, you could replace the valves. Get a new cct, some valves and seals, and have someone put them in, or do it yourself. Everything should run around $500 to get the head back into shape. Props if you replace guides too. Once you have a working cylinder head, we can help guide you the rest of the way.