NEED ADVICE on transmission fluids/changing due to vibrations, Lots of info/research

[Markie93]

Hey Guys, 12/2/2015

Lots of information here for anyone hoping to do this in the near future. Along with some questions at the bottom for anyone experience in this matter. I know there is a lot of info, but I would greatly appreciate it if you could look through everything before commenting.


Vehicle Info
2005 Audi A6, 4.2L V8, Quattro, 111,000 miles
Transmission: ZF is the Brand, Model: 6HP-19 (although technically it is a 6hp-19a since it's for awd), 6 speed, 09L, Transmission Code: HLL


History/Problem
Lately my car has been giving me some issues when the engine is under load. RPM's will pulsate, fluctuating 100rpm+/- if its under 2000rpm. In sync with the RPM fluctuations, I also get a pretty bad pulsating vibration as well. At first it was just barely noticeable but lately it has gotten much worse. Seems to happen even at the slightest load. BUT if I am over 2000-2200 rpm, no issues.

I posted another thread on this a few weeks ago and have done some more research since, so I figured I would write up another thread.

After some research about 70% of people thought it was the torque converter. More specifically a seal that goes bad. This requires the transmission to be dropped and removed. Not to mention I have seen the torque converter range from $600-$1000+ (Although I haven't searched for the price a ton). Although I haven't read about anyone changing the TC and having it fix the problem. I have actually seen a couple instances where they changed it and it DID NOT fix the issue.
Other people say changing of the "lifetime" fluid (Which I think Audi considers the lifetime of there vehicles to only be 105,000 miles since that is the last maintenance interval.) HAS fixed the issue, but I have only seen a few occurrences of this.

I also noticed, what I think to be a slight Tranny leak around the pan. Since there isn't an easy way to check the level, this is one of the big reasons I am deciding to change the fluid. To get the old stuff out, check out what I can visually since I have to drop the pan, and top off the fluid so I know that isn't a factor/issue


Possible Solution
Long story short, I have decided to try and change the fluid, and filter for the transmission. But I have some questions and seeking some advice before doing so. I am a college student at Michigan Technological University and am on a very tight budget. So I am looking for the best option and most economical.


Research on Possible Solution
The transmission is made by a company called ZF. For the all wheel drive, 6 speed models of my car, they use the 6HP-19a. From what I have read, there are a few TSB for some transmissions. This makes it very confusing.

There are a ton of different fluids out there. Although ZF states only theirs will work, many other brands state theirs meet/exceeds all of the requirements of the ZF ATF. The Audi/ZF fluid runs about $35-$45/qt and requires 9.5 qts I beleive. The part numbers for the fluid are as follows (in order from oldest to newest revision)

Audi OEM Part numbers:
Tan fluid - G 055 005 A2
Blue fluid - G 055 162 A2 (either the tan or the blue fluid is AKA Lifeguard 6 by ZF i think)
Green fluid - G 060 162 A2 (AKA Lifeguard 8 by ZF)

So I don't know what fluid I currently have and it may or may not have had the TSB (that I cannot find but have heard of) done to it. Also I have read you need to have a transmission software update if you use the newer fluid

I am a big AMSOIL fan, although I have always used Mobil 1 0w-40 for my engine oil. Amsoil has a an ATF that states the following:
"AMSOIL OE Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid is recommended for transmissions and other applications that require any of the following specifications: VW/Audi G 055 005, G 055 162, G 060 162, G 052 540; ZF S671 090 255"
Which makes me think it would work with transmission. This fluid runs about $10/qt and I have the utmost confidence in their quality.

Filter is located inside the pan (Part Number: 09L325429) for the ZF filter, ECS=$105.91, Europaparts=$75
Gasket (Part Number: 09L321371) ECS=$55.96, Europaparts=$38
ESC has a kit with both the filter and gasket for $137.62

Transmission Mounts on subframe (Part Number: 4F0399419E) ECS= $58+/-


Questions and Advice for/from you
- Do you think the transmission fluid change is worth the money?
- Do you think Amsoil ATF will be alright?
- Has anyone had success/failures of their transmission using something other than ZF or OEM fluid?
- For anyone who has changed their tranny fluid, would you mind telling me about how it went, how it felt afterwards, etc...?
- Do you think I should replace my tranny mounts? Looked like some of the metal wore off/came off but the rubber was still intact.
- Do to the slight leak that I think is ATF around the pan, I feel like I should do the fluid change soon to check the level. Is this a common problem?
- Should I post this in the S4 forum as a lot of them have the same 4.2L Engine and probably the same 6 speed tranny?
- Is there any additional information I can/should provide to help you help me?
- Lastly, What would you guys suggest I do on my tight budget? Should I leave it be for a while? or should I change the fluid before my 1,000+ mile round trip back home for the holidays?


I really appreciate any help/advice/input from anyone. Anything helps. i will also update this as I progress. I have a VAG COM and the service manual through Bentley if anyone needs me to pull more information.

Thanks again guys!!!!!!!

[Markie93]

Yes, I know. I also have a rear main seal leak

[Cabtruck1]

I have a B5 S4 2.7 L. Mine does the same thing and I have a new converter . I also have a stage 1 Daz tune along with a Daz TCU tune . I talked to him about it ....he says that it's from the converter not locking in fully he said they are variable . It can be somewhat bothersome when it does it . I know your thinking what's getting ready to go out . Something I do is at that low of speed I pull down a gear . I have read on here of a couple of B5 owners that do that I can't tell any difference in fuel mileage . Hope this helps or maybe someone else can jump in .

[skylinrcr01]

I've read that switching the solonoids since you have it apart would be a good idea.

[Markie93]

Thanks CabTruck. I agree with wat your saying. I do shift down and it get rid of the rpm pulsing and the vibrations. But it has gotten significantly more frequent over the last few weeks. Had it done that for a while I wouldn't be worried. The more frequent occurrences make me worried. Glad to know you felt the same thing. Have you noticed your getting worse?

Thanks skylinr. I haven't looked into these a ton but do know what your talking about. Not sure the priority of these based on the right budget, but you do make a good point. I'll have to look into those.

Any other suggestions?


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[sun_dance]

Hi Markie93,

Here's one of the best write-ups I've seen on changing the tranny fluid for our cars: http://www.audiworld.com/forums/a6-s6-c6-platform-discussion-58/so-you-want-change-your-trans-fluid-2816950/ and here's another by ECS: http://bd8ba3c866c8cbc330ab-7b26c6f3...tronic2013.pdf

As for the type of tranny fluid, when I did mine I went with the ZF fluid, which I got from here: http://www.thectsc.com/catalog/6-speed-audi-106.html

However, others have used Mercon, Shell, Redline as tranny fluid options.

http://www.audiworld.com/forums/a6-s...on-sp-2778513/

FWIW, when I did my diff fluid change, I used redline and it's been great.

[FormulaElement]

If the fluid has never been changed, that will help a lot. I suggest buying the newest fluid Lifeguard 8, it has better specs all around. Unfortunately it sounds like damage is occurring because of the vibration, your a engineering so I'm sure you understand. The torque converter seal is a problem with the ZF 5hp19 not the 6hp19. I highly doubt your transmission is leaking and its probably oil, or your power steering pump as they are both prone to leak and are right above it.

Back to the torque converter, theres three causes that could be going on. The torque converter clutch could just be worn, requiring a new torque converter. The solenoid that controls the torque converter clutch could be failing, causing it not to be able to engage fully at low rpm (low fluid pressure). The valve body could be leaking fluid, causing not enough fluid to get to the torque converter causing the same thing as before.

Unfortunately its near impossible to tell the cause. I would either just drive it until it fails completely, and buy a used transmission for 1000-1500$ for a decent one with under 100k miles. You can find them on car-part.com. Of course this doesn't fix the torque converter if it's the problem so maybe buying a used one would be beneficial, id sell you my old one, but it has the fluctuations or did i should say. I changed the solenoids and torque converter at the same time so i can't verify what actually fixed mine. All i know is mine doesn't do it anymore.

- Do you think the transmission fluid change is worth the money? If you do it yourself, then yes a $300 fix would be nice, just don't expect miracles
- Do you think Amsoil ATF will be alright? Absolutely not, stay with OEM and buy from theCTSC.com as mentioned above
- Has anyone had success/failures of their transmission using something other than ZF or OEM fluid? Many people have posted problems by not using the OEM fluid
- For anyone who has changed their tranny fluid, would you mind telling me about how it went, how it felt afterwards, etc...? After the fluid is changed, an adaptation is recommended, expect your car to shift a bit rough for the first 2000 miles
- Do you think I should replace my tranny mounts? Looked like some of the metal wore off/came off but the rubber was still intact. I recently replaced mine at 125k miles, the transmission mount was in great shape, and it really was a pain to change, i don't recommend it at all
- Do to the slight leak that I think is ATF around the pan, I feel like I should do the fluid change soon to check the level. Is this a common problem? Never heard of the problem and the gasket is paper, so it shouldn't go bad
- Should I post this in the S4 forum as a lot of them have the same 4.2L Engine and probably the same 6 speed tranny? They have the same transmission, just earlier revisions. They seem to be much more bulletproof on the early S4's, the late S4's (B7's) seem to have the same problems as us
- Is there any additional information I can/should provide to help you help me?
- Lastly, What would you guys suggest I do on my tight budget? Should I leave it be for a while? or should I change the fluid before my 1,000+ mile round trip back home for the holidays?

My last solution to you is to sell the car. I almost wish i had sold mine stead of dumping so much money into it. I love the car but damn, the problems never end. I won't even go into what more i have to do my car because i don't want to scare you away, just be warned!

[Markie93]

Thank you Sundance for all of the great links, I appreciate the time you spent into getting those. When you did the ZF fluid change, did you use lifeguard 6 or 8? Did you have to get anything done with the tranny software? Did your ID tag look like mine? (Green, 6HP-19)

[Markie93]

Formula Element, Thank you so much for the time you spent in your post and answering every question you could. I really appreciate that.

If I go with the lifeguard 8, Do you know of any transmission software update I would need? I have read about that in a few instances, some of the dealers even stop and think as they are unsure, so maybe it isnt a big deal. The biggest reason I am wanting to try the AMSOIL is simply because, I know they make good quality stuff, it "says" it is compatible, and I know a owner of the dealer here and can get it fro around $6.25/qt (which is the price he buys it for) so for 10 quarts, I am looking at $65 with tax give or take. vs 230 for 10 qts of Lifeguard 8 from the website Sundance recommended (which is the lowest price I have seen). So if the difference between amsoil and lifeguard 8 is simply one works a little better, I would rather try the amsoil. BUT obviously if the AMSOIL will destroy the $1000 min transmission, it would be stupid not to spend the extra $180. But $180 is quite a bit for me right now until after the holidays. Should I wait until afterwards when I'm not so tight on money?

Maybe Ill give AMSOIL a call and ask if they can guarentee it will work. idk. Thats the biggest question about this post really. I wish I had a difinitive YES or NO as to whether or not I can use the AMSOIL. AMSOIL seems to think its compatible, ZF says only use their fluid. WIll a different oil really ruin the transmission? From an engineering standpoint, I would say probably not, but then I remember I'm not driving a Chevy truck. Its a sophisticated and very expensive Audi... Not to mention, this may not even fix anything, but I guess it is a necessary start.


Very cool website btw... car-parts.com, I have never seen that before!

What problems have people found when using the NON OEM fluid? If it destroys the tranny then maybe Ill just suck it up, and try to scrounge up the extra $180 from somewhere to get the good stuff... Anyone else agree/disagree with using only OEM fluid vs AMSOIL tranny fluid?

Here is a link to the AMSOIL Tranny Fluid, what do you guys think? It lists it is compatible with both ZF part numbers and all three Audi Part Numbers:
http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...?code=OTLQT-EA

Sorry if I seem stubborn. I really appreciate everyone's help haha

[FormulaElement]

Only the earlier Zf 6hp19's need the software update, no C6 needs new software to use newer fluid.

If you're not going to buy Lifeguard, get Mercon SP. It's Ford's Lifeguard knockoff for their ZF 6hp26 transmission (almost identical, just can handle more torque). Its much cheaper at around 8$/quart and many people have used it without problems. Regardless when switching transmission fluid types form Lifeguard 6 to 8 or Lifeguard to Mercon SP, always flush the transmission or try to get the most old fluid as possible. I don't recommend flushing any transmissions so if you change types, either change the fluid twice or let the car sit a day with the drain plug open so the fluid gets out of the torque converter. Maybe even pull the fuel pump fuse and turn the car over a couple times to get the most fluid out of the transmission as possible.

These fluids are made for very specific viscosities and certain mineral content. Changing fluids won't necessarily destroy the transmission if the software can adapt or is programable to that new fluid. All auto transmission fluids are very similar (manual transmission fluid is very different), but the small differences the computer is programmed for causes it to delay shifts by not having enough oil pressure at correct times or can even cause slippage by not having the correct friction coefficient, and a bunch of other random problems.

I would change the fluid before driving home.

[Markie93]

In this post, people are using Amsoil ATF with no issues. Except they are saying they should flushi it out as to not mix the fluid:

http://www.audiworld.com/forums/a6-s...fluid-2820286/

But, ForumlaElement, you have helped me out a TON in the past. I think almost every one of my posts has a comment from you in it and you have never steered me in the wrong direction (Thank you). So I definitely have trust in you over a random user on a different forum. I just need to do some more research I guess. I like your idea of letting it sit and not flushing. That seems a lot safer.

A few other people told me NOT to flush it as it losens all the grit and basically contaminates the fluid quick. You make some very good points in your post...

Do you think there is anything wrong with just driving it until next year? and buying the right fluid the ZF fluid then?

[Markie93]

When you drian the fluid, Audi states it takes 9.5 qts for anew fill, or like 3-4 quarts for a change... Does this mean I would only need 3-4 qts? If so, I could probably do the ZF Fluid and not need to worry so much about mixing it. I guess I don't understand what they mean. How many quarts did you guys use?

**For anyone reading the chart below, on the #3 note, it states to use Part # G 055 005, when in fact, ZF and two Audi dealerships said to use Part Number G 060 162 (Life Guard 8, newest revision)**

[Markie93]

Looking at SunDance's Link, check out these Transmission Related TSB for my 2005 A6, 4.2L, 09L Trans:

ATF Pan Leak: http://uberlame.com/a6_tsb/Transmiss...an%20leaks.pdf
Vibrations: http://uberlame.com/a6_tsb/Transmiss...ween%203-4.pdf
Torque Converter:http://uberlame.com/a6_tsb/Transmiss...tuck%20off.pdf

All other C6 TSB's:http://www.uberlame.com/a6_tsb/Audi%...TSB%20List.htm

[sun_dance]

Thank you Sundance for all of the great links, I appreciate the time you spent into getting those. When you did the ZF fluid change, did you use lifeguard 6 or 8? Did you have to get anything done with the tranny software? Did your ID tag look like mine? (Green, 6HP-19)

Hi Markie,

I did the ZF LG8...I actually called the dealer and they had the correct make of my tranny and also advised me that the ZF8 was the right one, since the s/w was the latest for it. I did take a pic of the sticker, but honestly can't recall where it is. However, on Saturday I'm getting my tires changed out, so when I've got the car on the lift, I'll take a look at the tranny and get back to you. Cheers!

[sun_dance]

Markie,

When I changed the tranny fluid on my 4.2 C6, exactly 5 qts went in. I had actually purchased the 6 qt kit and never needed to add the final qt, since it was full at 5qts...yes I did get it to operational temp and monitored via vag-com, etc... ;)

So you are correct that a dry tranny holds 9.5 qt, but you will only get 5qt out when you drop the pan. As FomulaElement stated, you can drive it for a day, extract the fluid again (no need to drop the pan) and fill it up and you'll get a more 'clean' fluid into the tranny...but you'll never actually get 100% clean fluid in there without a flush. BTW, I only replaced the 5 qts a couple of years ago and this summer just plan on changing out the fluid again. When I dropped the pan, there was hardly any metal and the fluid itself didn't smell too bad. For those of you who have changed tranny fluid on other vehicles, you'll know the stench burned out fluid makes :(

[Markie93]

That is really good to know. 5 quarts of LG8 will only run me $150 bucks or so. Which is a lot better than $250. Maybe I will do that. Get the ZF fluid and just do the 6 quarts or so just to be safe. That way I am not mixing fluids

[sun_dance]

That is really good to know. 5 quarts of LG8 will only run me $150 bucks or so. Which is a lot better than $250. Maybe I will do that. Get the ZF fluid and just do the 6 quarts or so just to be safe. That way I am not mixing fluids

+1 on this...just get the kit from CTC and you'll be happy with things. Hopefully that'll improve things for you.

[Markie93]

Thanks guys,

I have read that if you pull off the mechatronics thing inside you can get more fluid out. Has anyone done this? Formula mentioned I might be able to pull the fuel pump fuse and try to turn it over a few times. Is there anything wrong with letting it run a little bit while not in gear? Maybe the pump would pump more fluid out? I've never had to do anything tranny related in my life so I don't really know how good or bad this would be. Any suggestions?

[SFI]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I’m wondering if the OP ever fixed this rpms fluctuations issue? My 2007 A6 Allroad 3.2 with ZF 6HP19A transmission is doing exactly the same. In low revs (around 1400rpm) in 5th or 6th gear the rpms bounce up and down and VCDS will record “TC reg” (not torque converter open or closed) with clutch slip alternating 32/64/96 rpms.

It’s significantly worse in cold weather and only noticeable in the first 20 mins of driving, so definitely temperature related somehow. Although there are many threads referring to this across multiple forums, firm conclusions on a working fix seem impossible to find. I understand the torque converter lockup clutch is slipping, I just don’t know why.

I’ve seen it stated that a fluid and filter change will fix it, or a Torque converter replacement is required, or TCM software update, or maybe new rubber seals between the valve body and transmission casing. Further up in this thread someone suggests a new solenoid.

Lots of suggestions, potential reasons, but I’m looking for clarity please, if there is someone who successfully fixed this on their car? Thanks.