Severe surface rust/oxydation on rotors

[ak_siberian]

Just got off the phone with AoA concerning the severe oxidation I'm getting on my rotors. I understand that back in the day some oxidation was to be expected,, however for years rotors have now been coated to avoid this. In any case the severe level of (surface) rust which is causing brake squeal as the pads clean off this off is unusual. Has anyone experienced this? This is on the standard (non ceramic) brakes on an RS5. I'll keep you posted as I hear back from Audi.

Here are some pics:

Front driver's side and the worst:

Driver Front by alaska.siberian, on Flickr

Driver rear:

Driver Rear by alaska.siberian, on Flickr

Passenger front:

Passenger Front by alaska.siberian, on Flickr

Passenger rear:

Passenger Rear by alaska.siberian, on Flickr

Thanks for any comments/ideas

siberian

[JoshDub]

I have had it happen on cars that sit for a couple weeks at a time or longer (or washing the car and not driving for a while). The rotors are coated, on the hubs and the veins. The rotor surface gets scrubbed so it loses its coating. What you are seeing is pretty typical for a wet climate. All of that looks pretty light to moderate and should come off after a few hard stops.

[ak_siberian]

Well this is after a day of sitting; given it's around 0F I haven't washed the car since... October.

Also most of the new rotors since the late 2000s are coated with molybdenum or other alloy to prevent this. On this price car... not acceptable, just my opinion of course. No wonder folks are changing their rotors after 15k miles if they have to scrape off this crud every couple of days.

Will let you know more when I hear back from AoA.

siberian

[NoMojo31]

It's a performance car with performance brakes. It's acceptable and part of the trade off for a high performance brake system.

If you don't like it, don't ever buy a Porsche.

[Skyler@Achtuning]

You could also try a product such as this:
https://www.detailersdomain.com/prod...erum-rustopper
I have not used it personally so can't offer any feedback on it.

[ak_siberian]

Owned two of them, never had an issue. So your point is performance brakes have no coatings? That would explain why you change pads and rotors at 15k... insane. Guess I'll be looking for coated ones when the time comes.

siberian

PS Thanx Skyler. A bandaid, I'm afraid. I was looking for a reason an 80k car comes with performance brakes that rust if it sits more than a day without being driven.

[chitstick]

you are everything that is wrong with the world

[d1amund]

How do the stock toureg rotors compare in regards to this? That's the burning question

[superswiss]

Cast iron rotors rust if you park the car with wet brakes and even more if they are exposed to salt. Any coating on the part of the rotor that makes contact with the pads wears off after just a few brake applications. The coating is there to protect the parts of the rotor where the pads can't scrape off the rust. Only composite non metallic rotors don't ever rust, so I'm not sure what you are expecting.

Drive the car hard before you park it, so the hot rotors will evaporate the water and park indoors, so they don't get wet again.


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[ak_siberian]

We don't salt here - EVER.

Have had Brembos for years on various cars with no rust problem. My heavily modded Durango had them when I converted to discs all around and I never had an issue even when we lived in Hawaii with the salt air etc.

I have Brembos on my Touareg, off road, fording, snow - no rust; ever.

What was I expecting? The same; not something that sat for a day and looks like crap and squeals when you drive off...

siberian

[JamesRS5]

It looks absolutely normal to me Siberian. It does look like you've not got any heat in the rotors when you parked up, there's water spotting on the rotor surface.
I can understand not using brakes as much when driving in snow and ice but it may be worth giving them a little workout before parking.

Do you keep the car inside?

*edit

Which direction was the wind coming from when the car was outside, looks like the rain/snow has blown in from one side making one side worse.

**second edit

It may be worth you running the coding for ceramic brakes? The coding change is designed to keep heat in the rotor during cold weather by gently applying the brakes without you noticing.

[Jano4]

Looks normal to me. Every car I've owned has done this in midwest weather.

[superswiss]

Not sure what to tell you. Mine get orange immediately after a car wash. Pretty much every car has done that. My aftermarket rotors are no different. But it comes off immediately after driving it and I always have enough heat in the rotors to dry them off. I do keep the car garaged. They don't rust if I leave the car parked in the garage. Obviously I'm not living in a cold climate, but the air is salty around here.


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[JoshDub]

Well this is after a day of sitting; given it's around 0F I haven't washed the car since... October.

Also most of the new rotors since the late 2000s are coated with molybdenum or other alloy to prevent this. On this price car... not acceptable, just my opinion of course. No wonder folks are changing their rotors after 15k miles if they have to scrape off this crud every couple of days.

Will let you know more when I hear back from AoA.

siberian

It's clearly water that has been sitting on the rotors. Yes, I have rotors that do it too. On my S5, X5, or E30. It happens, and certainly can look like that the next day. They were simply put away/got wet at some point after you last used the brakes. It's really not a big deal. It goes away as use the brakes.

I don't know how this has never happened to any of your other brakes. Maybe you just never noticed?

[ak_siberian]

That's just it. Neither Touareg has EVER had ANY rust issues at all.

After fording streams, ice, snow whatever they never show anything even near this. All cars are kept in heated garages. As a matter of fact my snow thrower and bobcat were not available when we got 2 feet of snow this past week. I used my V8 Touareg to clear snow by doing 360s to clear an access to the garage doors so we could get out. No rust after bringing it inside and you couldn't even see the calipers let alone the rotors as the were solidly caked with snow.

Maybe that's why I tow 7,650 pounds on my Touareg and with 56k miles I'm still on my original pads and rotors and I hear here that you change your pads out at 15 to 20k.

Thanx for taking the time and your feedback

siberian

[JamesRS5]

Why not give the ceramics coding a try, you have vag-com to chang the code. It may work well for you in the icing conditions.

[bknewtype]

[iBleedOrange]

Just trade the RS5 for another Touareg and call it a day. All your problems will be remediated.


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[Atmmac]

Why are people defending Audi. Whats depicted in the pictures is total crap. That level or rust is NOT normal at all. I live in Boston (where we gets lots of snow and salt.) and have owned several performance cars. I understand sometimes you get rust after a wash or rain and it will wear off after a few stops (especially noticed this with my corvette). What is depicted here is 100x worse than I have ever seen. It baffles me when people come online and defend a brand for an obvious defect. Hope you get it fixed.

[ak_siberian]

Why not give the ceramics coding a try, you have vag-com to chang the code. It may work well for you in the icing conditions.

Won't that cause even more premature brake wear or wobble/shudder as mentioned by some folks?

Do you happen to have the code?

siberian

[ak_siberian]

Why are people defending Audi. Whats depicted in the pictures is total crap. That level or rust is NOT normal at all. I live in Boston (where we gets lots of snow and salt.) and have owned several performance cars. I understand sometimes you get rust after a wash or rain and it will wear off after a few stops (especially noticed this with my corvette). What is depicted here is 100x worse than I have ever seen. It baffles me when people come online and defend a brand for an obvious defect. Hope you get it fixed.

Thanx for adding some objectivity. What I have, given where the car was driven and after a day and a half parked, to show this level of rust is not "normal". Well for me anyway.

Must clarify one item, the wife's car rotors are Zimmermans (mine are Brembos) and neither ever showed any sign of rust. Oh yeah, I forget, they're not "performance" cars nor Audis. But if folks find this normal, cool, I don't.

siberian

[Leavinu]

That driver-front is the only one that really looks abnormal to me. The others definitely fall within, what I'd call, normal post-wash or something like that. Seems that single rotor might not have the best coating from after being manufactured.

[ak_siberian]

Could be the flash on the camera isn't rendering the picture "correctly". But, you're right, the driver's side is definitely the worst whilst the passenger front is the cleanest.

siberian

[PEM]

Your driver's side looks worse than anything I've gotten. Usually mine looks like your passenger side after some rain and sitting a little bit.

[ak_siberian]

Issue is the car was neither in the rain nor did it get any (major) snow deposit inside the rims or on the rotors. Given the discrepancy between the rotors (driver's side to passenger front for example) something is not right.

I've sent the pics to Audi so we'll see what they reply.

siberian

[JoshDub]

Why are people defending Audi. Whats depicted in the pictures is total crap. That level or rust is NOT normal at all. I live in Boston (where we gets lots of snow and salt.) and have owned several performance cars. I understand sometimes you get rust after a wash or rain and it will wear off after a few stops (especially noticed this with my corvette). What is depicted here is 100x worse than I have ever seen. It baffles me when people come online and defend a brand for an obvious defect. Hope you get it fixed.

No one is fan-boying. We are saying that this has happened to most of us and and other makes as well.

You can even see the waterspots for Christ's sake.

[PEM]

Issue is the car was neither in the rain nor did it get any (major) snow deposit inside the rims or on the rotors. Given the discrepancy between the rotors (driver's side to passenger front for example) something is not right.

I've sent the pics to Audi so we'll see what they reply.

siberian

You're sure it wasn't in the rain/snow after you last used it? James and Josh made a good point as it looks like your driver's side has signs of evaporated water droplets, making that side way worse. Nevertheless, let us know what Audi says!

[superswiss]

Why are people defending Audi. Whats depicted in the pictures is total crap. That level or rust is NOT normal at all. I live in Boston (where we gets lots of snow and salt.) and have owned several performance cars. I understand sometimes you get rust after a wash or rain and it will wear off after a few stops (especially noticed this with my corvette). What is depicted here is 100x worse than I have ever seen. It baffles me when people come online and defend a brand for an obvious defect. Hope you get it fixed.

Hmmm..., I think the point is getting lost in this thread. The abrasive nature of brakes scrapes off any coating put on the rotor surface over time. Do you not understand that? The time it takes to scrape it off depends on the softness of the rotor and the hardness of the pads. Not only that, but the pads themselves contain metal in case of the semi-metallic pads used on the RS5. The rust here may not even be the rotors, but the pad material deposits on the rotor. These deposits contain metal shavings from the pad material. The only way to avoid rust like that over the lifetime of the brakes is to make the rotor out of an alloy that is more corrosion resistant and use non-metallic pads. However, cast iron rotors are used on a car like the RS5, because of its tremendous heat sink properties. These brakes are supposed to cope with the kind of heat that is generated when driving the car on the track. The reason his other cars don't have this issue could be because the rotors are not cast iron, after all a touareg is not designed to see the kind of heat in the brakes that you would see on a track, or he is using non-metallic pads or a combination of both. Another option is to go completely non-metallic such as with the carbon-ceramic brakes. They cope even better with heat and don't rust at all.

[Beast]

it's normal.

[PEM]

Superswiss with the knowledge bomb

[ak_siberian]

Audi is replacing the rotors in the new year. So as far as they and me are concerned it ain't normal.

siberian

[namvar]

Way to stick to your Guns Siberian!!!!!!!!! Share a tech bulletin number if they give you one please

[ak_siberian]

Will do. I tentatively have a pick up date to flat bed it down to Anchorage January 18 AFTER I have confirmation that they have the parts in house. I warned them about waiting until the car gets there to order anything... all on a (bi-sync) recorded line . Trust but verify as Ronnie used to say.

I'll post with any details after I get the car back.

siberian

PS I also gave them a heads up for my "courtesy" service sometime in May/June when I do my Costco run to make sure they have 0-40w full syntec oil. Accept no substitute :)