DL501 S4 vs. S6

[Atzek333]

Hey guys, in germany many of the tuners are saying that 550nm is the max. torque for the DL501 Stronik
some tuners have tuned there s4 over 520hp and 620nm with stronic whats really high

but today i saw accidentally that the currently s6 with the v8t also had the dl501 ... and the s6 with software goes up to
800nm of torgue

so had the s6 the same dl501 than the s4 or will be something different ?


best regards

tim :)

[Frinkferta]

I want to see the 520 HP S4! That's impressive...

[bizzy]

Yea seriously, do you have any links or videos about these tuned 520+ hp S4's?

[MrFunk]

huh?

[Atzek333]

https://youtu.be/ADhJjYSE6oA

sure i have ... its made by the Netherland Company JDEngineering

Audi S4 3.0 TFSI S-tronic
- Compressorpully upgrade
- Front mounted intercoolerset incl. upgrade waterpomp en reservoir
- Carbon airbox met carbon aanzuigbuis.
- Supersprint downpipes
- KW Suspension
- Chiptuning stage 6 520pk & 625Nm

[jran76]

Yea seriously, do you have any links or videos about these tuned 520+ hp S4's?

While there's no exact way to measure a cars horsepower short of an engine dyno, there are DSG cars running 11.45 1/4-mile times at 121+ MPH. That would typically take a car with more than 520 HP. So, even if they are not at that exact number, there are some that are close on race gas.

[Dippy]

Hey guys, in germany many of the tuners are saying that 550nm is the max. torque for the DL501 Stronik
some tuners have tuned there s4 over 520hp and 620nm with stronic whats really high

The spec of the DL501-7Q 0B5 is 550Nm at 9000rpm. Now in my mind that should mean that at lower revs it should be able to handle more torque? Maybe someone with some proper mechanical knowledge could confirm or contradict?
However isn't it also true that the maximum torque is limited in the ECU?

In the UK a company called MRC gets the best results. On their test mule they got 500PS and 600Nm and that was with a manual gearbox. On customer s-tronic cars they regularly measure around 470-480PS and 590-600Nm. That's with pulley, remap and the usual air intake improvements, and of course the best fuel which is nominally 99 RON (although its almost impossible to be 100% sure of octane in the UK as we only regulate for 95 RON and 97 RON).

Anyway there are enough stage 2 S4s and S5s about to suggest that the s-tronic can take 600Nm. It does seem that s-tronic failures are predominantly in the earliest cars, with unturned cars failing as well as tuned cars.

[skiptowncat]

485 bhp and 437lbft (593 nm) on my MRC tune, measured independently.

[hodrosS42001]

Hey guys, in germany many of the tuners are saying that 550nm is the max. torque for the DL501 Stronik
some tuners have tuned there s4 over 520hp and 620nm with stronic whats really high

but today i saw accidentally that the currently s6 with the v8t also had the dl501 ... and the s6 with software goes up to
800nm of torgue

so had the s6 the same dl501 than the s4 or will be something different ?


best regards

tim :)

They are different transmissions with different identification codes. The DL501 has a published torque input rating but the DL511 or S6 transmission does not. There has been no engine diagnostic or document I have seen that has cited the difference although it it mentioned the S6/S7 have a 'beefed' up 7 Speed Dual Clutch. There are actually numerous version, the 7 Speed DCT in the RS3 for an example is different still, in name and torque capacity.

Since these transmissions are quite beefy to begin with I wouldn't see much derivation in the drivetrain components outside of the clutch pack design, the S6/S7 most likely have additional clutches that will support more torque but that is just a guess.

Again there is no cited information on this.

[bizzy]

While there's no exact way to measure a cars horsepower short of an engine dyno, there are DSG cars running 11.45 1/4-mile times at 121+ MPH. That would typically take a car with more than 520 HP. So, even if they are not at that exact number, there are some that are close on race gas.

Ah, thought he meant whp.

[wwhan]

The A8 4.0TT has a slightly higher torque than S6 (600nm vs 550nm), it uses the AL551-8Q (ZF 8HP55AF) with a max. 700 Nm torque.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...:Transmissions

From Audi Self-Study Program 920223;

[sirsycott]

The A8 4.0TT has a slightly higher torque than S6 (600nm vs 550nm), it uses the AL551-8Q (ZF 8HP55AF) with a max. 700 Nm torque.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...:Transmissions

From Audi Self-Study Program 920223;

yeah those zf transmissions are pretty stout and reliable from what i've heard, which is no suprise as to why it's on an a8 and s8, unfortunately though the drawback is that zf transmissions don't really launch as well as the DSG cars



the dual clutch on the s6/s7 from when i've driven "feels" a little less peppy compared to the s4/s5 , but then again it could just be the weight difference

[wwhan]

This infers Audi backing away from the DSG 511/501 series for new development. Also, if the numbering system is consistant, then the same 406 ft-lb limit (550nm) as the DQ511 would apply to the DL511.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/vw-shelves-plans-for-10-speed-dsg-transmission-89725.html
"Officially announced in 2013 and detailed again last year. the 'DQ511' transmission was designed to work with VW Group's modular transverse matrix (MQB) platform for the Passat and Golf. It would have been capable of handling up to 406 lb-ft of torque.

Citing development costs and complexities, an unnamed insider has told Australia's Motoring that the project has been put on hold indefinitely.

"In the end, we had to balance what our priorities were with our transmissions and other things are more important and more urgent," the source added.

The DQ511 gearbox would have served as an drop-in alternative to VW's seven-speed DSG, adding extra gears for improved drive-off performance and better fuel efficiency at highway speeds. Fuel consumption is further reduced via engine decoupling while coasting, along with low-friction bearings and special coatings on the gearwheels.

It is unclear if the company is already refocusing its development resources into a different dual-clutch gearbox with more gears than its current offerings. "

http://articles.sae.org/13750/
"New 10-speed DSG

The new 10-speed is aimed specifically at transverse powertrain configurations via the VW Group’s increasingly ubiquitous modular MQB platform. Although still not officially confirmed, a variant may also be applied to longitudinal powertrains such as ones used by Audi. The new DSG’s torque limit is currently 550 N·m (406 lb·ft) but this may need to be increased as diesel engine power and torque levels rise. Even the latest 2.0-L bi-turbo with electric compressor already achieves 176 kW (236 hp) output and 500 N·m (367 lb·ft). (See http://articles.sae.org/13421/.)

Designated internally as DQ511, the 10-speed is closely based on the current 7-speed DSG (DQ500), which also has a 550-N·m peak torque capability."

[anerbe]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...a4-the-savior/

"The latest version of Audi's seven-speed dual-clutch transmission, specially calibrated for U.S. cars to provide smoother transitions and launches, replaces the eight-speed torque-converter automatic"

It's good news that the next gen a4 gets a DSG, which replaced the 8 speed automatic - hopefully development continues, and not everything goes to the full automatic. I wish that the S4 also keeps the DSG, but other sources state differently.

The 8-speeds are definitely nice, but there's something more raw / finicky with the DSG that still makes me a bit excited about a car. It's slots between a manual trans and an automatic torque converter car. All I know is that the only car I'd drive that isn't a manual is a Dual Clutch.

[sirsycott]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...a4-the-savior/

"The latest version of Audi's seven-speed dual-clutch transmission, specially calibrated for U.S. cars to provide smoother transitions and launches, replaces the eight-speed torque-converter automatic"

It's good news that the next gen a4 gets a DSG, which replaced the 8 speed automatic - hopefully development continues, and not everything goes to the full automatic. I wish that the S4 also keeps the DSG, but other sources state differently.

The 8-speeds are definitely nice, but there's something more raw / finicky with the DSG that still makes me a bit excited about a car. It's slots between a manual trans and an automatic torque converter car. All I know is that the only car I'd drive that isn't a manual is a Dual Clutch.

yeah i drove in a a4 with the 8 speed zf , when you row down from say 4th gear to 3rd gear , it doesnt' rev match, so the entire car lurches forward while braking compared to dsg , kinda felt unnatural , you can definately tell that the transmission trys to shift as quick as possible , but the dsg beats it hands down, also to note, the new b8.5 a4's and mqb 3's have gotten updated needle response rates in the tach, which mislead many to think that the s3's are shifting alot faster than the s4's , in actuallity it's the needle response rake setting that allows the needle to "settle" into the next engaged gear "faster" it's very apparent when you look at the needle shift and compare it to the exhaust note and engine noise when you play them side by side

[anerbe]

also to note, the new b8.5 a4's and mqb 3's have gotten updated needle response rates in the tach, which mislead many to think that the s3's are shifting alot faster than the s4's , in actuallity it's the needle response rake setting that allows the needle to "settle" into the next engaged gear "faster" it's very apparent when you look at the needle shift and compare it to the exhaust note and engine noise when you play them side by side

Good to know! I had a GLI DSG prior, and it always seemed like the needle itself dropped faster than the S4, but obviously due to the shift harshness in this car, I knew the shifting was faster. Also, at high RPM, the DSG of the GLI seemed much softer in shifting vs. the S4's.

Part of me always thought that the 4 cylinders had less rotational inertia, thus were able to drop in RPM faster when no load is applied.

[wwhan]

Good to know! I had a GLI DSG prior, and it always seemed like the needle itself dropped faster than the S4, but obviously due to the shift harshness in this car, I knew the shifting was faster. Also, at high RPM, the DSG of the GLI seemed much softer in shifting vs. the S4's.

Part of me always thought that the 4 cylinders had less rotational inertia, thus were able to drop in RPM faster when no load is applied.

The S4 tach is not too accurate/responsive under peak acceleration. If I WOT downshift at 5mph, then accelerate to 70mph, the tach pegs at 8k RPM for the 1-2 shift.