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  1. #1
    Active Member Two Rings Phaxmohdem's Avatar
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    B7 Audi A4 Timing Belt Change - A first timer's experience

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    I've just come back from what I would term a successful hour-long first drive after changing the timing belt on my 2008 A4. This was the first time I've ever attempted this on any vehicle, so I wanted to write up a little something to share with the world for future first-timers thinking about whether or not they want to do this and what to expect. Never hurts to have additional info and discussion on the topic.

    This is not a DIY, but more of a retrospective on what I encountered and things I ran into that weren't really mentioned in any of the DIY posts and videos I used during this maintenance.

    Phase 1: Should I do this? (Research)
    I have trust issues. I don't like other people (that I don't personally know) doing anything to my car. Even things as simple as filter and oil changes I do myself not for the cost savings, but for peace of mind. I need to know it was done right. Even in the many instances where I've screwed something up, I at least know deep down in my gut that something isn't quite right and where to look to fix it instead of waiting for it to blow up on me down the road.

    This mentality has only been reinforced time and time again over the years culminating at a Jiffy Lube (*shame* I know…) where I was in a bind and needed a quick oil change on my A4 and that was the only option. In addition to a "quality" oil change which threw a cam position sensor CEL 2,000 miles later, I also received my car's belly pan and mounting hardware gift-wrapped with a couple of plastic trash bags in my trunk, because… the teenager working the pit couldn't figure out how to use a flathead screwdriver? I'll never know the reason for that, and since that fateful day I've done all the service on my vehicle.

    Since then I've performed the following service items on my A4 and have become fairly familiar with the engine-bay layout: Cam follower, PCV valve, valve cover gasket, throttle body carbon cleanout, motor mounts, brake pads, and common things like light bulbs and air filters. The point of this is not to brag or show off, but to give you a baseline feel for where I'm coming from experience-wise. Prior to this I never really did much work on my cars beyond oil changes, brake pads, and a cold-air intake during the teenage years.

    Based on my above mechanical history and after reading several DIY documents and watching several YouTube videos of the process, I decided that I had the abilities to attempt this myself. This was not an easy decision to make, however. This is one of those jobs where the consequences of screwing up could mean the end of your motor… but the cost of having this done at a shop or dealership is so high that you have to at least consider DIY if you're not made of money.

    For reference, here are the primary documents and videos I consumed that helped give me confidence that I could do this:



    Phase 2: Shopping!
    I looked around various sites to try and find a kit that contained the most Genuine Audi parts. This is not an easy task. To get a truly 100% genuine timing hardware kit, you'd probably have to purchase all the parts separately. Online retail kits will sell you non-Audi "OEM" parts with the claim that they meet or exceed OEM specifications, but I can't tell you whether or not that's good, bad, or indifferent.

    I ended up purchasing a kit from Europaparts which ended up costing around $450 because I opted for extras like the Thermostat, accessory belt tensioner, and accessory belt idler pulley to replace while I was in there already.
    https://www.europaparts.com/timing-b...4-b7-2-0t.html

    I scoped out sites like ECSTuning as well, since they have been my go-to for all my other car parts to date, but I liked the way Europa sold their kit better, so that's the one I went with. While I expected OEM parts, the one thing I wasn't thrilled going OEM with was the water pump. The only kit option was a HEPU metal impeller model, with no option for Genuine Audi. I don't know anything about this brand of pump, but it doesn't make me feel as confident for some reason. I will probably end up changing the pump/timing hardware again after around 75K miles this time instead of 100K+ due this lack of confidence in non-genuine hardware.

    The shopping didn't just end with the actual parts, however. I needed some tools! I owned many of the required tools already, but below is a list of all the tools I ended up using (as best as I can remember):
    • Standard 12pt metric socket set (make sure you have a 19mm socket in your collection… I had one in my emergency toolbox in my car thankfully, but all my other home (Kobalt) sets stopped at 17mm.)
    • Deep-well 10mm socket for getting front bumper off
    • Various length socket extensions
    • Socket adapters to convert sizes as needed (Sears sells a good set for $10 or so that will cover all your bases between 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 sizes)
    • Big-ass socket wrench for turning the crank. I bought an 18 inch wrench from an auto parts store for $30 that worked like a charm. A pipe on your regular socket handle might work too, but you'll need 2 wrenches anyway when removing the pulley bolts; one to hold the crank still and another to work the bolts.
    • Breaker bar – I used this instead of the big-ass socket wrench to hold the crank bolt steady while I loosened and tightened the pull bolts because it had a smaller head than the big-ass ratchet.
    • Torx socket set – T25, T30 were the most commonly used… but I'd just get a nice comprehensive set from a respectable brand.
    • Metric Allan socket set – M6, M10 and M5 were the most commonly used… but get a comprehensive set from a good brand as well. (Good brand is hyper-important for allan/hex sockets because they strip easily)
    • Metric Triple square socket set – M10 and M5 were the most commonly used… but get a full set. (I bought the Neiko 10056A XZN set on Amazon and they were awesome.)
    • Jack stands – I used two under the sub-frame in front for this job.
    • Jack
    • Power drill with 3/8 socket adapter bit. – (Impact driver would have been better, but my drill has different torque settings, so I just used that to rapidly remove and install bolts safely then hand-tightened after.)
    • 17mm crescent wrench for the accessory belt tensioner
    • Headlamp flashlight was extremely useful
    • Right angle pick tool – You'll need this for the stupid hose that cuts in front of the timing belt cover. I couldn't find one at my local hardware store, so I ended up purchasing a cheap long, thin screw driver instead and used a belt sander at tome to grind the tip down to a tapered dull point. Then I bent it as close to 90 degrees as I could using vice-grips and hammers.
    • Air tools (purely optional… but awesome): Impact gun for tire lugs, air ratchet for places drill driver wouldn't fit, and most importantly... the blow gun. Purchasing an air compressor is worth it just for the air gun to blow crap out of tight spaces. I have a relatively weak 1.0HP 4.6 gallon dual stack compressor, and skinny 1/4 inch hoses, but it has been one of the best purchases I've made. It's probably half paid for itself already not having to buy air duster cans.
    • Philips and flathead screwdrivers
    • Big-ass (18 inch) flathead screwdriver for prying off the crank pulley
    • Long needle-nose pliers (long right-angle pliers would have been better) for drain plug
    • Pliers for hose clamps
    • Torque wrench – I used a 3/8 Kobalt clicky wrench for tightening the timing belt tensioner to 17 ft/lbs
    • Hole tap tool… One of the thermostat coolant pipe M5 triple square holes stripped out on me so I had to re-tap it and use a different bolt.
    • Loc-tite (I used the blue stuff)
    • O-ring lube
    • Brake/parts cleaner
    • Safety glasses – saved me from a splash of coolant to the eyes
    • 1 gallon of distilled water for coolant mix.
    • Cellphone/small camera for seeing inaccessible places in the engine bay
    • Urban dictionary – for when regular curse words can't truly convey your frustration with a given component.


    That's a bigger list than I thought it'd be… but most everything can be accomplished with a couple socket wrenches and a well-rounded set of sockets, extensions, and adapters.


    Phase 3: Doing the damn thing.
    Performing the actual job was reasonably straight-forward. I brought my laptop into the garage and pulled up the Edge Motors timing belt video I linked above and just hit pause while I followed along with his steps.

    Here are a few tidbits about things I encountered along the way:

    • I noticed that the service position shown in the video didn't require the fancy M8 1.5 bolts/ service position tool mentioned in the DIY write-up. Indeed, I didn't have any trouble accessing all the parts I needed by simply sliding the front out a few inches without those special rods in place.
    • Whoever designed the position of the coolant drain plug needs to be thrown naked into a room full of pissed off wasps, while non-stop audio of toddlers cry-screaming is piped in over loud speakers. Why? Just, why?
    • My crank pulley bolts came off relatively easy. I was fortunate, though, and had triple square bolts from the factory. None of that allan/hex bullshit.
    • My timing belt cover had some sort of built-in rubber gasket around the edges that began to disintegrate into a gooey, sticky nasty mess. I noticed the goop after I hit it with a blast of parts cleaner to de-grease the case. I don't know if it was a reaction with the cleaner fluid or what, but I cleaned all the sticky crap off as best as I could (so it wouldn't get on the timing belt or pulleys) and reassembled it. I may have to end up getting new lower and upper covers, though, as the seal between the cover and block has small gaps now. I'm on the fence about whether or not to throw the designer of this built-in gasket into the room full of wasps too.
    • The original thermostat O-rings expanded and would not fit back into their holes. The new thermostat itself came with a new main O-ring, so no big deal, however the middle pipe going into the thermostat housing has a small (~20mm Inner Diameter) ring on it that had expanded to around 21mm and would no longer fit into the thermostat housing without bulging out. I had to bum a ride from a friend to the auto parts store to purchase a $2 O-ring which was the only thing preventing my car from going back together.
    • The M5 triple square bolts near the oil cooler that hold the metal coolant pipe are a pain in the ass, especially the one in back that you can't see and have to remove by touch. The front hole's threading stripped with almost no effort at all when re-installing the bolt… I'm not sure how it even happened. Luckily I had a 1/4 inch tap laying around and corresponding bolts that fit the tap's threading so I just re-threaded the hole and now have a goofy looking Philips head bolt securing the pipe. Be extra careful you're not cross threading when reinstalling these bolts.
    • Before removing the alternator (to get to the thermostat) take a Sharpie and draw a small up arrow on the exposed side. This will ensure you don't accidentally try to put it in backwards during re-install.
    • When I plugged the battery back in when I was done, none of my key fobs worked. Turns out nothing was broken, I just had to insert a key into the ignition, turn it to accessory mode and push a fob button on each to re-synch them.
    • When re-filling the coolant, there is a bleeder screw on the top of the metal coolant pipe that runs over the top of the intake manifold. Take this screw out, brim the reservoir, and massage the radiator hoses until a steady stream of coolant comes out of the bleed port.



    Phase 4: Turning the key for the first time.
    For me this process was emotionally like skydiving for the first time. Once you've decided to finally do it, there's a period of apprehension mixed with excitement until you arrive at the air field. While you're at the air field going through the instruction class it's pretty much all excitement, mixed with intense focus, mixed with the ‘America, Fuck Yeah' song going through your head as you learn the rules and practice the jump procedures. When class is over and you put on your gear and board the plane you're putting everything you've just learned back together in your brain and double checking everything.

    Then, the plane door opens and the jump master points at you.

    "Oh, fuck."

    God only knows what your heart-rate is at that point and your stomach feels like it just swapped places with your face.

    That's how I felt this afternoon the first time I turned the key after doing this. I expected to see gears and springs and pistons go flying around the room while fluid of every kind hosed down the garage walls and floor.

    But, it didn't happen. After the typical second or so of rough startup sounds passed, it was humming along as good as or better than before. I let it idle for a good 20 minutes or so checking coolant levels and inspecting every nook and cranny for coolant leaks before taking her out on the road.

    To finish the skydiving analogy, that was like touching down safely. I still had that adrenaline working its way through my system, but with no catastrophic sounding noises or leaks to be found I now feel that DIY sense of pride taking over instead. My feet are back on solid ground.

    It will still be a few weeks before I'm totally confident in all of this work, but that was a pretty solid test drive tonight and everything felt and sounded good. The coolant will probably take a little while to level off, but it's no problem to check on that and add as necessary.

    I read somewhere on these forums (need to find that comment and give them credit) that this job is a 5/10 difficulty level, but a 10/10 apprehension level. That pretty much sums it up perfectly for my experience.
    Daily Driver: 2008 A4 S-Line, FWD Multitronic, 110K mi -- Bone stock (Except for 034 Street Density motor mounts)
    Backup: Mountain bike

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings vce1232000's Avatar
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    job on your ride..... To be honest concerning the water pump. The metal impeller is prefered over the plastic. Theory about it is that metal impeller will not spin out fail on the shaft compared to the plastic
    APR KO4, APR HPFP,RS4 LPFP Cntr,145 bar PRV, APR TP, TT DP, GFB DV+, AWE FMIC, BFI CC, AWE Exhaust, RS4 Exh tips, ST CO, 034 RSB,034 St Dnsty Mtr Mts, New Sth West Bst guage, B7 RS4 8 pot Calipers.Goodridge SS brake lines frt & rr. Hawk HPS frt & rr. RS4 PS rack, RS4 Servotronic Relay,RS4 rims. S4 mirror caps,DTM frt bmpr and rs4 fogs,LED tail lites
    S4 Recaro Front & Rear seats. Led Interior Kit,United LED's fog lites
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  3. #3
    Active Member Two Rings Phaxmohdem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vce1232000 View Post
    job on your ride..... To be honest concerning the water pump. The metal impeller is prefered over the plastic. Theory about it is that metal impeller will not spin out fail on the shaft compared to the plastic
    Thanks :)

    That theory makes sense and is probably true provided the metal is of decent quality and affixed to the shaft well. The factory plastic impeller design looked pretty sturdy to me. My concern is more about the bearings being used in the non-genuine pump than the impeller, though.
    Daily Driver: 2008 A4 S-Line, FWD Multitronic, 110K mi -- Bone stock (Except for 034 Street Density motor mounts)
    Backup: Mountain bike

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings vce1232000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaxmohdem View Post
    My concern is more about the bearings being used in the non-genuine pump than the impeller, though.
    Gotcha.... Alot of us buy from Europaparts with little to no issue's on their parts. They do alot of research on the quality of the parts they sell us. Feel confident of the parts you purchased from them. I for one also ed the metal impeller pump and have been running it with no issues. I ran the 1st to 75k before I it recently with the same style pump. When I removed it and at it. I felt confident it would have lasted another 75k
    APR KO4, APR HPFP,RS4 LPFP Cntr,145 bar PRV, APR TP, TT DP, GFB DV+, AWE FMIC, BFI CC, AWE Exhaust, RS4 Exh tips, ST CO, 034 RSB,034 St Dnsty Mtr Mts, New Sth West Bst guage, B7 RS4 8 pot Calipers.Goodridge SS brake lines frt & rr. Hawk HPS frt & rr. RS4 PS rack, RS4 Servotronic Relay,RS4 rims. S4 mirror caps,DTM frt bmpr and rs4 fogs,LED tail lites
    S4 Recaro Front & Rear seats. Led Interior Kit,United LED's fog lites
    2007 A4 Avant 2.0T Tiptronic 6spd

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings z_wrecker's Avatar
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    Thank you for your input. I will be attempting this shortly and while I do have experience working on engines this will be my first German.
    2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio
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  6. #6
    Active Member One Ring askin's Avatar
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    Thanks for this post! Was the motivation I needed to get it done and save some $$. The difficulty and apprehension ratings were true to form. But all is good now!

  7. #7
    Active Member Two Rings saoniel's Avatar
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    Appreciate the skydiving comments. First jump in 1976. About 2000 jumps later and taught lots of 1st jump courses. I am going through this right now with a front crank shaft seal replacement. Timing belt change plus.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Two Rings megarex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vce1232000 View Post
    job on your ride..... To be honest concerning the water pump. The metal impeller is prefered over the plastic. Theory about it is that metal impeller will not spin out fail on the shaft compared to the plastic
    I have seen a metal pump fail sending shards everywhere. Plastic is better imo, doesn’t react with the fluids to create deposits on the impeller.
    AKA: mj109

  9. #9
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by vce1232000 View Post
    job on your ride..... To be honest concerning the water pump. The metal impeller is prefered over the plastic. Theory about it is that metal impeller will not spin out fail on the shaft compared to the plastic
    My recent experience doing this same job + more showed that there's a Door #3 when it comes to impeller construction, which is a composite. I didn't know this even at the time the part was in my hand (here's the whole job but timed to pump comparison: https://youtu.be/HN6ajyLviaE?t=2218) but you can hear that there's a metallic feel/sound to the impeller while I'm touching it. This pump was installed by Audi in 2014 and the closest reference I can quickly spot online for this part is https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/06F121011.

    Ultimately, I don't know which impeller type is truly "the best". Proper maintenance is the best.

    Anyways, nice writeup Phaxmohdem - appreciate the entertaining commentary.
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