4.2 V8 conversion on A4 or Single turbo S4????

[mug23]

Hello:

I'm looking into a project and I was wondering. What would you guys preferred? A single big turbo S4 or a S8 4.2 V8 with 360hp conversion with the possibility of supercharging it later on down the road?

Of course just like everyone else, I'm looking for cost/performance, reliability and how easy the project would be? I'm looking to use if possible OEM parts for the conversion as much as I can and I like to avoid any custom fabrication as for ease of repair or parts replace later on.

If anyone have any experience on any of the project I'm looking at, please let me know the pros and con?

Thank you.

[getslideways]

if you are looking for low cost, and not having to custom fabricate anything, Neither is an ideal route. A single turbo is custom (yes you can buy the 034 setup but you still have to make custom intercooler runs, etc).

Sounds like if you are after more power, sell the A4 and buy an S4. Then the 2.7t is factory, zero fabrication involved, which sounds like what you are after.

Neither single or 4.2 are cheap, especially when you start adding up supporting mods, or considering a supercharger. Have you seen the price of a supercharger setup? Not exactly "bang for the buck" pricing you would find in chevys and fox bodies

[Mille Bornes]

I second just getting an S4; they're so cheap anymore. It's such a waste of time and money trying to convert. And I'd avoid a 4.2. Not sure if the S8 4.2 you're talking about is belt or chain but regardless, I think the 2.7 is better bang for your buck. If I were you I'd keep my eyes open for a nice stage 3 and call it a day.

[rollerton]

Paging Nollywood.

[Peter1.8t]

Just buy an s4. Idk why so many people think the single turbo is a cheap and viable option. Out of the many that started single projects only a handful of them are out on the road running. It's not as simple as a ko4 turbo swap on these cars.

[mug23]

I'm kind of just take the easy way out and get a used S4 but I really love the belt driven 4.2 V8 in a b5 chassis for the sound and the torque. If I were to pull off the V8 sway, would you guys think the belt driven 4.2 will be more reliable than the 2.7t?

[DieselElectric]

^ and a properly sorted out k04 car is faster than people realize.

[Nollywood]

A stock 077 series 40V is way more reliable than a stock 2.7T. The 2.7T motor itself is fine, the turbos less so. And their close proximity to the frame rails makes replacement a bitch. I have owned both a 2001 B5 S4 sedan and V8-powered B5's, as well as Audi's that left the factory with V8 motors.

The 077 series V8 is of course belt-driven. I'm currently working with one, and I have another in a shop for internal work, which is destined for a Time Attack B6.

It's all about choices.

[Audi_From_Hell]

I'm still trying to figure out where all this torque is that 4.2 guys talk about. My s6's certainly were not torquey motors. Also the 4.2 v8 is heavier than a 2.7t which these cars do not need anymore weight in front.

[Mille Bornes]

I'm still trying to figure out where all this torque is that 4.2 guys talk about. My s6's certainly were not torquey motors. Also the 4.2 v8 is heavier than a 2.7t which these cars do not need anymore weight in front.

x2
I'm not sure what a supercharged 4.2 will put out but the stock 077 in a C5 S6 is rated at 310 lb-ft at 3400 rpm. That's around where a k04 or f21 car will spool, maybe a little later, and my f21 2.7 put 420 lb-ft to the wheels. That's pretty torque-y if you ask me. Also, a lot cheaper...

Edit: Just double checked my graph and it was 430 ft-lb at 4500. Still, power comes on plenty fast and I know there are much better examples of a stage 3 than my own

[Nollywood]

I'm still trying to figure out where all this torque is that 4.2 guys talk about. My s6's certainly were not torquey motors. Also the 4.2 v8 is heavier than a 2.7t which these cars do not need anymore weight in front.

First of all...

The 4.2 V8 40V (077 series) weighs the same as the APR V6 30V, and LESS than the AGB / AZR 2.7T. Aluminium block Vs cast iron 2.7T, with the turbos, intercoolers up front and all it's associated pipework.

Secondly, you can't compare a C5 S6, which is the size of a bus, and fitted with a power-sapping ZF5HP24-A to a nimble B5 S4.

Have you actually driven a B5 V8 with a manual gearbox bolted behind it?

[Scotty@Advanced]

I'd vote the 4.2, for all the reasons Nollywood mentioned, and for the quickness it can be completed and cost.

[Mille Bornes]

I have not. Idk if it's apples-to-apples but I've driven plenty of b6/b7 s4's and have been pretty underwhelmed.

I just don't think it'd be worth it. Just my opinion, maybe if I drove a swapped b5 I'd think otherwise.

[Nollywood]

B6 shell is heavier than the B5's, so a B6 S4 won't really shine. The 079 series chain-driven 40V is also heavier than the much more robust 077 series chain-driven version.

All adds up to a fatter, heavier car. Better insulated though as a result, and more refined which does not give much sensation of speed. It's not a slug, but neither is it especially quick.

A B5 V8 on the other hand does shove a fair bit.

[getslideways]

The only thing that would make it even a consideration for me would be for the V8 sound:

[naudlee]

2.7 Single Turbo or bust... why even consider a brick-wall smashing 4.2 turd (yes, even belt driven turds considered too)

Your V8 may sound fast... but prove to be much slow.

[Nollywood]

I have owned both - and a stock 2.7T is nowhere near as quick as a stock 4.2 V8.

[naudlee]

I have owned both - and a stock 2.7T is nowhere near as quick as a stock 4.2 V8.

I never said stock 2.7(albeit an ecu flash away from dominating on the 4.2)... OP was asking STK 2.7 or 4.2 swap

[Nollywood]

I never said stock 2.7(albeit an ecu flash away from dominating on the 4.2)... OP was asking STK 2.7 or 4.2 swap

I'm aware of what the thread starter was asking. I responded based upon my experience on both engines, and also in response to your previous contribution.

[Peter1.8t]

Someone be a baller and swap in a BNS.

[getslideways]

/\ das trufh

[Zba]

BNS: If Honda built a V8...

[mug23]

Logically it's much easier to do a stage 3 K04's S4 but my heart is telling me to do the 4.2 conversion as I want to not use a A6 4.2 but a D2 S8 motor with 01E 6 speed trans. This is what I'm really want to do but just asking to see what other will say.

I found this S8 in a used recycled auto parts for good priced but the only trouble is getting the car to me as I'm like over 1,000 miles away. What you guys think as a donor for my project?

http://om.kellysautosalvage.com/om/f...asp?id=2891485

Nollywood,

If I were to use the facelift 30v V6 A4 as the base model for the S8 4.2 sway, would I need custom motor mounts? I also heard that I can use euro S8 ecu base map file for use of the manual trans? I want to use as much oem parts for the swap as much as possible of course so i want to see which model of the A4 is preferred?

Thanks,

[landfill]

What a waste of time and effort.

[Nollywood]

What a waste of time and effort.

A very non-civil comment to make.

Let me spell it out mate:

It is only a waste of time, money and effort, if the end product of your making is NOT what you wanted to achieve. If you spend $500 on your car, then discover that you don't like what your car has become, that is a waste. In the same way, if you spend $25,000 on a $10,000 car AND you're happy with the results, your efforts will NOT be considered a waste. And yeah, this applies even if the said car is a $500 basket.

There are B5 S4's out there that are dog rough, and cost their owners $6,000, yet have had well over $35,000 spent on them in the space of 3 years. A waste of time and effort? Nope. Impractical? Probably. We spend $$$,$$$ on our cars because we like them. Using your definition of waste, we might as well not have bothered, and bought cars that offered or exceeded the performance we're spending big bucks on to achieve in an ageing platform.

What do you do to your car? Follow your dream. An automobile is a liability, not an asset, whichever way you look at it.

[Nollywood]

Logically it's much easier to do a stage 3 K04's S4 but my heart is telling me to do the 4.2 conversion as I want to not use a A6 4.2 but a D2 S8 motor with 01E 6 speed trans. This is what I'm really want to do but just asking to see what other will say.

I found this S8 in a used recycled auto parts for good priced but the only trouble is getting the car to me as I'm like over 1,000 miles away. What you guys think as a donor for my project?

http://om.kellysautosalvage.com/om/f...asp?id=2891485

Nollywood,

If I were to use the facelift 30v V6 A4 as the base model for the S8 4.2 sway, would I need custom motor mounts? I also heard that I can use euro S8 ecu base map file for use of the manual trans? I want to use as much oem parts for the swap as much as possible of course so i want to see which model of the A4 is preferred?

Thanks,

If you use a D2 S8 motor in a 30V facelift B5 (both are ME7.1) all you would need would be the motor mounts off any C5 4.2, as well as the wiring harness. The harness will have to come from an S6 though, as there are subtle differences between the engine harnesses from the S6 and regular 4.2 models.

You might as well continue this in the B5 A4 section, so you don't upset my good B5 S4 folk here. I'm also in the middle of my 5th B5 V8 swap, using the 4.2 V8 40V (BFM 340hp) from my old 2005 D3 A8. I'm also looking for a B6 3.0 Quattro as a base car for one of my spare V8 set-ups, which is to be built to RS6 spec, B6 will be a gutted, Time Attack car.

[landfill]

The 2.7t is a tried and proven platform with a decent amount of aftermarket support.
Your going to swap in an old timing belt v8 that is slow as dog shit and you would
have a pretty hard time making over 400whp when on the 2.7t all you have to do
is bolt on ko4's and supporting mods. The torque you speak of from the precious v8
is made exactly the same from a stage 2 ko3 car lol. So I stand by my statement a
waste of time and effort. Buy a b5 s4, mod it , and call it a day.

[landfill]

I've owned 3 b5 s4's and I currently own a urs6. Which both have better power plants than
the v8. I'm not going to be working backwards for something that will yield less gains lol.
I try to go after which option has the most potential. Being different is for high school.

[Nollywood]

The 2.7t is a tried and proven platform with a decent amount of aftermarket support.

So I stand by my statement a
waste of time and effort. Buy a b5 s4, mod it , and call it a day.

The 077 series V8 is also a proven motor. After the original inline 5, it is the only other engine that was campaigned successfully in Motorsport. So believe me, this engine was really put through the mill. How many 077 engines have you seen blown up? I worked for an Audi dealership for 13 years, Volkswagen for 8 and Volkswagen Commercial for 3. I have never seen an 077 motor suffer catastrophic damage, apart from timing belt failure, which is more down to the user running the car way beyond the belt's replacement interval.

Until you have driven a B5 V8 with a manual gearbox, your opinion in all hearsay pal. I have driven B5 V8's, both in 32 and 40V guise. I have also owned a 2001 B5 S4, as well as a 2004 B6 S4 Cabriolet. So I speak from experience both as an end user, as well as 24 years of technical experience gained as an ex Audi Master Technician.

All the above cars are very different in character. My B5 S4 was the slowest, to be expected - it was stock. The B6 S4 was a bit quicker, but was also the heaviest car, being a Cabriolet. My B5 V8 was the lightest AND quickest of the bunch.

The 2.7T motor is an awesome motor in its own right, and can be modified to 600 awhp and beyond. So can a 1.8T, which will actually be quicker, due to less weight. These engines are not for everyone, they are certainly not for me, though if I had to choose, I would go with the 2.7T, as I'm a great believer in there's no replacement for displacement. This is NOT my opinion, it's a scientific fact. Just the same way I would pick the 4.2 V8 over the 2.7T.

Just so you're aware, the 1997 D2 S8 6-speed manual has a 0-60mph time of 5.4 secs, so just .5 of a second slower than the much more powerful B5 RS4. Pretty respectable for a full-size luxury sedan that tips the scales at 1,850 kgs. A B5 V8 is much lighter.

May I ask how much you've poured into your car since you bought it? And for those who have injected 6 times the purchase price into their B5 S4's, would you consider this a waste?

I repeat...in this context, waste is defined as an exercise performed by, or on behalf of the end user that did NOT satisfy, or meet expectations. If their expectations are met or exceeded, then no one, including yourself can declare the said exercise a waste, regardless of how much was spent. We live in a diverse world, and have diverse tastes.

[Nollywood]

I've owned 3 b5 s4's and I currently own a urs6. Which both have better power plants than
the v8. I'm not going to be working backwards for something that will yield less gains lol.
I try to go after which option has the most potential. Being different is for high school.

How would you define better, in this context? And how will you determine the V8 will yield less gains? I'm not being picky here, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from.

[naudlee]

What a waste of time and effort.

This is true.

[mug23]

A very non-civil comment to make.

Let me spell it out mate:

It is only a waste of time, money and effort, if the end product of your making is NOT what you wanted to achieve. If you spend $500 on your car, then discover that you don't like what your car has become, that is a waste. In the same way, if you spend $25,000 on a $10,000 car AND you're happy with the results, your efforts will NOT be considered a waste. And yeah, this applies even if the said car is a $500 basket.

There are B5 S4's out there that are dog rough, and cost their owners $6,000, yet have had well over $35,000 spent on them in the space of 3 years. A waste of time and effort? Nope. Impractical? Probably. We spend $$$,$$$ on our cars because we like them. Using your definition of waste, we might as well not have bothered, and bought cars that offered or exceeded the performance we're spending big bucks on to achieve in an ageing platform.

What do you do to your car? Follow your dream. An automobile is a liability, not an asset, whichever way you look at it.

He's what we called, "Hardcore" and true man of his passion and I truly appreciate his effort and time he put into this types of projects. Swapping different motor into a different chassis that the factory never intended to is as old as we all start the love of the automobile. I would never call anyone a waste of time as people like to explore.

Everyone has certain wants and needs and you cannot argue that fact. I myself have a family and kids and looking into starting my own business but my other friend that I know for 20 years does not have a GF, kids and works in a 9-5 job that does not require any constant learning but would he call me a waste of time for trying to start a business? It's the wants and needs of everyone that's different but you cannot call someone out for that.

[Nollywood]

He's what we called, "Hardcore" and true man of his passion and I truly appreciate his effort and time he put into this types of projects. Sway different motor into a different chassis that the factory never intended to is as old as we all start the love of the automobile. I would never call anyone a waste of time as people like to explore.

Everyone has certain wants and needs and you cannot argue that fact. I myself have a family and kids and looking into starting my own business but my other friend that I know for 20 years does not have a GF, kids and works in a 9-5 job that does not require any constant learning but would he call me a waste of time for trying to start a business? It's the wants and needs of everyone that's different but you cannot call someone out for that.

Thanks for understanding where I'm coming from.

[mug23]

Thanks for understanding where I'm coming from.

No problem, I'm also looking into this project as well:

http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/project-818/

I have a 2005 Subaru STi track/time attack car as well with a fully build motor that I'm looking into swapping all the parts into the Factory Five 818C. The 818C with a gross weight of around 2000 lbs, mid engine with the Subaru STI 2.5 motor pushing around 500whp will be a beast.

Here's my STI:

[Nollywood]

No problem, I'm also looking into this project as well:

http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/project-818/

I have a 2005 Subaru STi track/time attack car as well with a fully build motor that I'm looking into swapping all the parts into the Factory Five 818C. The 818C with a gross weight of around 2000 lbs, mid engine with the Subaru STI 2.5 motor pushing around 500whp will be a beast.

Here's my STI:

[IMG]]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4009/4322185989_6f9b019ebb_z.jpg[/IMG]

Wow. Looks like you're going to be real busy.

[mug23]

Wow. Looks like you're going to be real busy.

Can you imagine the feeling of a 2000 lbs car with 500whp to the rear wheel at full throttle once it gets traction? It's almost the same feeling as a 1,000hp Supra.

[getslideways]

...I myself have a family and kids and looking into starting my own business....

It sounds like the last thing you need right now is an engine swapped project car lol

[mug23]

It sounds like the last thing you need right now is an engine swapped project car lol

Very true but I still need something to my mind away from the reality of life. This is project will happen during the night hours as I usually sleep like few hours a night anyways.

[Audi_From_Hell]

First of all...

The 4.2 V8 40V (077 series) weighs the same as the APR V6 30V, and LESS than the AGB / AZR 2.7T. Aluminium block Vs cast iron 2.7T, with the turbos, intercoolers up front and all it's associated pipework.

Secondly, you can't compare a C5 S6, which is the size of a bus, and fitted with a power-sapping ZF5HP24-A to a nimble B5 S4.

Have you actually driven a B5 V8 with a manual gearbox bolted behind it?

Considering the motor is even longer then a 2.7t I'd say you're moving weight forward even if you aren't adding more weight, which if I could remember my pallet weight on the last 4.2 I pulled and shipped I'd say that the 4.2 is still about 50 lbs heavier then a 2.7t if I remember correctly.

I agree, the zf5hp24 is junk and audi generally only takes the junk that nobody else will buy from zf.

No, I haven't driven a b5 v8, although I have driven a c4 v8. If I'm going to do any swapping of motors it's for something much lighter up front that can actually make power...like a 07k. 077 series v8 or not, it's an anemic motor and lacking down low any way you'd like to cut it. Slap a BNS in there and you have a different story but that motor still doesn't make tons of torque, it likes to be revved out.