Rear Sway Bar advise

[cjt671]

So my S4 has a neuspeed sway bar installed by a PO, but I noticed there are no reinforcement brackets installed... I do not believe the subframe has any cracks but am worried that the larger bar will eventually create some..

The options I am considering are inspecting the subframe more thoroughly and if no cracks found installing 034 brackets.. Or just going back to the stock sway. Is the neuspeed bar worth the cost of reinforcement brackets? Just looking for some input, I'm leaning toward just buying the brackets.

Hope I don't need a new subframe.. Lol

[Wagonholic]

You'll be fine

If no cracks are present, and/or if the bending is minor, run the 034 brackets and forget about it.

RSB is one of the best handling mods in this car, imho

[cjt671]

Will do, I'll check for damage then just order the brackets...

I can't tell between my stock A4 other than the S4 just overall being better.. Maybe I'll throw the stock A4 bar on the S4 and give it test..

[2000s4_m]

Ill buy that neuspeed sway bar from you and i have an extra stock sway bar i can give to u


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[killerkali]

You'll be fine

If no cracks are present, and/or if the bending is minor, run the 034 brackets and forget about it.

RSB is one of the best handling mods in this car, imho

Bad/unsafe advice IMHO. My subframe tabs literally tore off with a hotchkiss bar and no brackets. Not a rust or other issue, that thin metal is in no way strong enough to support a larger bar and hard driving. Be smart,safe and run some type of reinforcement.

[cjt671]

Yeah man. Turns out it has the neuspeed bracket on it, I was looking for some kind of billet reinforcement like 034's..

[killerkali]

Yeah man. Turns out it has the neuspeed bracket on it, I was looking for some kind of billet reinforcement like 034's..

I run the 034 brackets , they do the job fine I'm sure the neuspeed ones work just as well. Not much too that part to change

[cjt671]

I run the 034 brackets , they do the job fine I'm sure the neuspeed ones work just as well. Not much too that part to change

Yeah they look like they mount pretty much the same way, doubt it would make a difference to swap in the 034 one..

On the topic of Swaybars, any reason to upgrade front? And if so would rears need to be larger than 19mm?

[Wagonholic]

Bad/unsafe advice IMHO. My subframe tabs literally tore off with a hotchkiss bar and no brackets. Not a rust or other issue, that thin metal is in no way strong enough to support a larger bar and hard driving. Be smart,safe and run some type of reinforcement.

Never told him not to run the reinforcements. If there's no damage, then no harm no foul. If there was damage then obviously he should solve that first. I run the reinforcements (034). The reinforcements end up transferring the load anyway through the brackets which is good.

[Wagonholic]

Yeah man. Turns out it has the neuspeed bracket on it, I was looking for some kind of billet reinforcement like 034's..

Neuspeed brackets are fine. Run them, forget about it, and enjoy the car. Won't make any significant difference by switching to the 034. They do the job fine

[Wagonholic]

Yeah they look like they mount pretty much the same way, doubt it would make a difference to swap in the 034 one..

On the topic of Swaybars, any reason to upgrade front? And if so would rears need to be larger than 19mm?

Honestly don't even bother with the front. It'll just cause the front to push more and make our (very prevalent) understeer worse.

Obviously it's more complicated that this, but the basic rule for suspension/sway bars is the following

Stiffer rear: less grip in rear, more in front, front grips, rear rotates, leans towards oversteer
Softer rear: more grip in rear, less in front, rear grips, front pushes leans toward understeer
Stiffer front: less grip in front, more in rear, rear grips, front pushes, leans toward understeer
Softer front: more grip in front, less in rear, front grips, rear rotates, leans towards oversteer

If anything, you'd want a thinner/softer sway bar in the front lol

[christianb5s4]

I'm going to install a set of Hotchkis sway bar brackets on my car along with the H&R bar that's already there. The Neuspeed brackets as Justin said will be fine, another thing to consider adding are the metal rear sway bar end links and spherical front sway bar end links. Those two things make a tangible difference and don't change the balance of the car.

[cjt671]

I'm going to install a set of Hotchkis sway bar brackets on my car along with the H&R bar that's already there. The Neuspeed brackets as Justin said will be fine, another thing to consider adding are the metal rear sway bar end links and spherical front sway bar end links. Those two things make a tangible difference and don't change the balance of the car.

I'll put those on my list. Thanks man🏽

[cjt671]

Any specific ones for front? I know 034 makes em, but remember reading something about WRX endlinks

[christianb5s4]

You'll definitely appreciate how much more precise they make the car feel. The front spherical end links really tighten up steering response and feel as well.

[erykv1]

Do not upgrade the front sway. Do the rear as for reasons above. If there is enough people I'm sure 034 can be convinced to run a group-buy for us.

[cjt671]

Have the neuspeed bar already

[MetalMan]

Any specific ones for front? I know 034 makes em, but remember reading something about WRX endlinks

Yep, 2002+ WRX rear endlinks fit the front of our cars. I use Agency Power AP-GDA-210 spherical endlinks, and have been using them for 26k miles now (about 3.5 years), but also in SoCal where there's little rain.
They started squeaking a little maybe 4 months ago, but didn't really have any slop. About 3 months ago I sprayed some silicone lubricant (mostly just to make sure it was them which were squeaking) and they've been fine since.

034 sells spherical front end links which may fit better, but cost $144 + shipping. The spherical WRX end links can be had for ~$102.60 shipped here:
http://www.ultrarev.com/Agency-Power...FQISfgodv-0Jbg

[uponone nogaro]

I installed a nuespeed rear sway bar and I didn't feel any difference in handling I was thinking of getting the 034 rear sway bar is it true nuespeed made two different bars strength

[BITRBO]

Honestly don't even bother with the front. It'll just cause the front to push more and make our (very prevalent) understeer worse.

Obviously it's more complicated that this, but the basic rule for suspension/sway bars is the following

Stiffer rear: less grip in rear, more in front, front grips, rear rotates, leans towards oversteer
Softer rear: more grip in rear, less in front, rear grips, front pushes leans toward understeer
Stiffer front: less grip in front, more in rear, rear grips, front pushes, leans toward understeer
Softer front: more grip in front, less in rear, front grips, rear rotates, leans towards oversteer

If anything, you'd want a thinner/softer sway bar in the front lol

Do not upgrade the front sway. Do the rear as for reasons above. If there is enough people I'm sure 034 can be convinced to run a group-buy for us.

Eh, I respectfully disagree. If the rear bar is big enough then a larger front bar shouldn't make the car "push" any more than it did before, and in fact, it will actual help turn-in and body roll significantly. That's why Hotchkis sold them as a pair for the longest time... If you want to extenuate oversteer (at the cost of a sloppy front end), then run the rear bar only, but a front bar really makes the car so much more responsive IMO. I'd at least try it both ways to see what feels better.

Note: The "correct" solution is through appropriate spring rates, as sway bars are really just a bandaid, but nobody in their right mind would run 1000/1200 springs around town.

I installed a nuespeed rear sway bar and I didn't feel any difference in handling I was thinking of getting the 034 rear sway bar is it true nuespeed made two different bars strength

FWIW, some of the Neuspeed RSB's aren't much bigger than stock at 19mm, and even the 25mm ones are on the small end. That's about as big as my H-Sport FRONT bar, as the H-Sport rear is 35mm!

[cjt671]

That was more of my thinking, in my question about the front bar
Would a larger front bar coupled with a proportionally larger rear bar create a worthwhile improvement in the overall handling of car.

[BITRBO]

That was more of my thinking, in my question about the front bar
Would a larger front bar coupled with a proportionally larger rear bar create a worthwhile improvement in the overall handling of car.

I think so, especially if you only have a so-so suspension. Since the front end of these cars is so heavy it really helps keep things flat under cornering, and makes steering input noticeably sharper. But, to each their own... Try it both ways if you can find a cheap front bar somewhere, but definitely get some reinforcement brackets for the rear bar.

[cjt671]

I'm on H&R coils, I wouldn't say they are bad as I've definitely ridden in worse lol.
Maybe I'll just bite the bullet and buy a front/rear kit or look for a set used

[uponone nogaro]

Ya it looks that way I went from a pencil to a small sharpie

[Wagonholic]

Eh, I respectfully disagree. If the rear bar is big enough then a larger front bar shouldn't make the car "push" any more than it did before, and in fact, it will actual help turn-in and body roll significantly. That's why Hotchkis sold them as a pair for the longest time... If you want to extenuate oversteer (at the cost of a sloppy front end), then run the rear bar only, but a front bar really makes the car so much more responsive IMO. I'd at least try it both ways to see what feels better.

Note: The "correct" solution is through appropriate spring rates, as sway bars are really just a bandaid, but nobody in their right mind would run 1000/1200 springs around town.

You are 100% correct about the "correct" solution being running stiffer springs, because stiffer bars reduce suspension independence. That's why most of our cars with stiff rear bars love to become tripods on steep driveways.

I always thought our front bars were pretty massive stock already, and if you watch the video you can see my car does have fairly minimal roll and does corner pretty flat. But to each their own, never said it was a "bad" mod, just didn't feel it was worth it considering a larger front bar would require an larger rear bar.

Turn-in can be also addressed with a more aggressive alignment as well.

[christianb5s4]

You are 100% correct about the "correct" solution being running stiffer springs, because stiffer bars reduce suspension independence. That's why most of our cars with stiff rear bars love to become tripods on steep driveways.

I always thought our front bars were pretty massive stock already, and if you watch the video you can see my car does have fairly minimal roll and does corner pretty flat. But to each their own, never said it was a "bad" mod, just didn't feel it was worth it considering a larger front bar would require an larger rear bar.

Turn-in can be also addressed with a more aggressive alignment as well.

Agreed on alignment, after I got mine done post H&R coilovers, it was night and day. They did a mild street/sport alignment, gave them Stasis' guide to different alignment settings and told them to find a happy medium.

[BITRBO]

You are 100% correct about the "correct" solution being running stiffer springs, because stiffer bars reduce suspension independence. That's why most of our cars with stiff rear bars love to become tripods on steep driveways.

I always thought our front bars were pretty massive stock already, and if you watch the video you can see my car does have fairly minimal roll and does corner pretty flat. But to each their own, never said it was a "bad" mod, just didn't feel it was worth it considering a larger front bar would require an larger rear bar.

Turn-in can be also addressed with a more aggressive alignment as well.

The stock front bars are big on these cars cause the nose so heavy. Not sure if you ever drove your car hard while it was still on the stock suspension, but I did and I can't imagine how bad the roll would be with a smaller front bar.

So you're still going to feel a good bit of body roll even with a good alignment. I have a fairly aggressive alignment, 800lb springs up front AND the H-Sport FSB (22mm) and you can see how much body roll I still get:



(this is a FAST right-hander at Homestead that "feels" flat in the car, but you can see how much weight transfer there actually is)

I think you need at least 1000F/1200R springs to keep the car flat under hard corning (without a big front bar), but again, nobody in their right mind would run that on the street, so sway bars are the obvious solution.

[slow ride]

What tire are you running in the picture?

[BITRBO]

245/40/17 Hankook RS3's on 17x8 Kosei KS T1's. Fantastic tire for the money.