Aftermarket Clutch Break-in Issues

[Ze_Nardo6]

Hey Guys,

I had the stage III clutch and lightweight flywheel below put in the car a few weeks back.

http://www.ecodetuning.com/store/aud...-3-0-4-2l.html

I have put about 300 miles on the car since install, about 70% of those are city miles. I understand the break-in is 500 city miles so I am about halfway there.

The stiffness is great, like stock, but every time I engage 1st gear from a stop, no matter how I engage it, the car shudders. When the car is cold, there is no shudder at all. As soon as the car warms up, the shudder gets much worse. Is this normal? The guy who installed my clutch has been a master mechanic at Audi for 20 years and has many aftermarket clutch systems under his belt.

Any insight on this? Will it go away after full break-in?

Thanks,
Mickey

[neverfastenough]

Likely not, with a little more RPM you should be able to avoid the shudder.

[Ze_Nardo6]

Likely not, with a little more RPM you should be able to avoid the shudder.

I've attempted engaging 1st gear at various RPM levels and they all have some form of shudder, obviously some more than others.

All these folks on here with aftermarket clutches and only one response?

[vwblackb5]

Did you replace the OEM pressure valve that eases engagement with SS line when you upgraded your clutch/fw? link http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...all-6MT-owners

I would also venture out to say it could be your lwfw, but when i had one on my B5, i would get chattering not shuddering, and it was mostly when the AC was on...

[DGVR6]

It should get better.. I still get shudder though, not as bad as when I was breaking it in.
I have to keep the revs a bit up if I want to avoid it.

But yes normal.

[awwturbo]

I notice this too on mine. I'm on my 2nd week with it in and I have about a little over 200 miles on it so far. It seems to shudder when I don't give it enough gas. I don't notice it when I give it more gas. But I know it should get a little better when its broken in.

[fitzydude]

I hate clutch chatter on engagement, I avoided buying the 1 piece lwfw because I didn't want to risk it. I can tell sometimes my stg 4 clutch shutters a little when I take off at low rpms, but the dmf does a good job of soaking it up. If it is as severe as you say, maybe your installer turned the test drive into a joy ride and was too hard on the clutch before breaking it in.. In either case just finish the break-in period and it should fade a little

[Chandler]

I have driven the stage 3 and stage 4 EuroCode kit. If the shuttering is... shuttering on engagement, and your engagement is just a little rough, that is not going to change without some new technique. If it is chatter, then it is not going away. Breaking the clutch in more is not going to solve this issue regardless. The LWF is likely the culprit. I chained my clutch line a few days ago removing the vibration dampening valve. It did make engagements more controlled by a little.

[DGVR6]

I agree with Chandler, it's going to take some finesse to drive it now but you're still in the break in process so focus on getting through that.

The breaking it in was rough, it shuddered so violently that I thought I made a mistake and turnt my car into a race car. After 300 miles it started to fade. Now I'm here, 1000 miles in. Engagement is still a bit harsh when warm and revs are low but no where near break in. So it does get better but you will also have to change your technique if you want to completely eliminate it.

[Ze_Nardo6]

Makes sense, thanks a lot for the insight gents.

I have attempted to engage at various RPMs and while shuttering is less pronounced when using higher revs, it is still there. Also, it makes me feel like I'm shredding the clutch when I engage at higher revs. This will take some getting used to I guess.

[Sceanzo]

My OEM clutch does this lol. Seems to be more noticeable in colder weather which makes no sense

[MrFunk]

Mine even does this sometimes and I have a stock clutch...

[xuandatou]

Hey Guys,

I had the stage III clutch and lightweight flywheel below put in the car a few weeks back.

http://www.ecodetuning.com/store/aud...-3-0-4-2l.html

I have put about 300 miles on the car since install, about 70% of those are city miles. I understand the break-in is 500 city miles so I am about halfway there.

The stiffness is great, like stock, but every time I engage 1st gear from a stop, no matter how I engage it, the car shudders. When the car is cold, there is no shudder at all. As soon as the car warms up, the shudder gets much worse. Is this normal? The guy who installed my clutch has been a master mechanic at Audi for 20 years and has many aftermarket clutch systems under his belt.

Any insight on this? Will it go away after full break-in?

Thanks,
Mickey

I've been running the Eurocode Racing Clutch for half a year and I had the exact same issue.

I did expect there would be some shudders since its not OEM and designed for hard shifting. It was really PITA for daily driving especially when you get stuck in the heavy traffic.

Installation was performed by certified master Audi tech and I broke in the clutch properly and the shudders would never go away even after 1500 miles.

[infinkc]

dont think it will go away, when i i was trying to decide what clutch to go with, this was a common thread that i kept reading about with the ec setup regarding 1st gear engagement.

[Hofahome]

I hate clutch chatter on engagement, I avoided buying the 1 piece lwfw because I didn't want to risk it. I can tell sometimes my stg 4 clutch shutters a little when I take off at low rpms, but the dmf does a good job of soaking it up. If it is as severe as you say, maybe your installer turned the test drive into a joy ride and was too hard on the clutch before breaking it in.. In either case just finish the break-in period and it should fade a little

Not to hijack the thread but how do like the stg 4 clutch without upgraded flywheel? Any issues with resurfacing the stock flywheel? Does it launch well?

[Ze_Nardo6]

FWIW, I spoke to Dave from Eurocode at length on this issue. He said the majority reason for the shuddering is the LWFW. So for those that are scared of the shudder but want a stronger clutch, don't let the stage III scare you, just stick with OEM flywheel. He did say the shudder will never go away completely but will fade to some extent. But, like any car, once you become used to the application, you learn how to engage the car to minimize the shudder.

I will continue to check back in with this thread as the I rack up more miles on the car. Still only about 275 city miles on the car since install. The recommendation is 500 city miles for when you can hammer the throttle again, but full break-in takes about 750-1000 miles.

[Vogz]

FWIW, I spoke to Dave from Eurocode at length on this issue. He said the majority reason for the shuddering is the LWFW. So for those that are scared of the shudder but want a stronger clutch, don't let the stage III scare you, just stick with OEM flywheel. He did say the shudder will never go away completely but will fade to some extent. But, like any car, once you become used to the application, you learn how to engage the car to minimize the shudder.

I will continue to check back in with this thread as the I rack up more miles on the car. Still only about 275 city miles on the car since install. The recommendation is 500 city miles for when you can hammer the throttle again, but full break-in takes about 750-1000 miles.

My EuroCode stage 3 does the same thing. I have about 5k miles on it now. When it's cold, it's completely smooth, once it warms up which is usually over 20 minutes of "city" driving, it will shudder to varying degrees on from a stop engagement only. All gear changes are buttery smooth. I don't buy that the lightweight flywheel is the issue. I've had many light weight flywheels with aftermarket clutches over the years, and the friction material accounts for nearly all of the engagement feel. A stock dual mass may soak up a little shudder, but it won't get rid of it.

You bought a clutch with a full kevlar segmented disc. It will never be smooth on engagement like an OEM organic disc will.

[fitzydude]

Not to hijack the thread but how do like the stg 4 clutch without upgraded flywheel? Any issues with resurfacing the stock flywheel? Does it launch well?

The JHM stage 4 has been flawless, engagement and pedal feel similar to stock maybe slightly more aggressive. I purchased a new OEM flywheel to be safe, I couldn't find a shop that would resurface an OEM dmf.. It launches really well, in my mind you want a heavier flywheel with more momentum to get your heavy ass awd car moving off-the-line at the track as opposed to a lightweight fw.

[jimrobbington]

Yeah, but that shifting 1st to 2nd though. Takes forever for the revs to drop enough for a great shift there.

[Ze_Nardo6]

My EuroCode stage 3 does the same thing. I have about 5k miles on it now. When it's cold, it's completely smooth, once it warms up which is usually over 20 minutes of "city" driving, it will shudder to varying degrees on from a stop engagement only. All gear changes are buttery smooth. I don't buy that the lightweight flywheel is the issue. I've had many light weight flywheels with aftermarket clutches over the years, and the friction material accounts for nearly all of the engagement feel. A stock dual mass may soak up a little shudder, but it won't get rid of it.

You bought a clutch with a full kevlar segmented disc. It will never be smooth on engagement like an OEM organic disc will.

My understanding is the stage III is not kevlar, the stage IV is kevlar.

[Vogz]

My understanding is the stage III is not kevlar, the stage IV is kevlar.

The stage 3 is most definitely kevlar fiber. The stage 4 is a 6-puck ceramic.

http://www.ecodetuning.com/store/aud...-3-0-4-2l.html

[Ze_Nardo6]

The stage 3 is most definitely kevlar fiber. The stage 4 is a 6-puck ceramic.

http://www.ecodetuning.com/store/aud...-3-0-4-2l.html

Thanks for the info. Since you've had this clutch for a bit, have you learned to drive it to minimize shudder?

[Vogz]

Thanks for the info. Since you've had this clutch for a bit, have you learned to drive it to minimize shudder?

The best ways I've found to minimize shudder is quicker engagement or engaging just until it starts to shudder and then pushing the pedal back in and re-engage while the car is already rolling. It's not ideal, but if you want the holding power, heat resistance and life that the stage 3 will give you then you have to give something up.

[Thurston]

Yeah, but that shifting 1st to 2nd though. Takes forever for the revs to drop enough for a great shift there.

this. i presume that's the main benefit of the lwfw? Free'er quicker revs rising up and falling down? that 1st to 2nd shift is frustrating at times actually most all the time for me.

[jimrobbington]

this. i presume that's the main benefit of the lwfw? Free'er quicker revs rising up and falling down? that 1st to 2nd shift is frustrating at times actually most all the time for me.

Yup, and 2nd to 3rd can be almost as bad. I an getting JHM LWFW installed, I'll have a full review in a few weeks, this will be my first ever LWFW on any car. This is the first car where I've felt like it was needed.

[Vogz]

Guys, the revs "hanging" on some 1-2 shifts is NOT the flywheel. An aftermarket LWFW will NOT eliminate it. It's in the engine tuning. My car does it just the same as it did before my LWFW install.

[fitzydude]

Guys, the revs "hanging" on some 1-2 shifts is NOT the flywheel. An aftermarket LWFW will NOT eliminate it. It's in the engine tuning. My car does it just the same as it did before my LWFW install.

I've always wondered what that is, could be excess boost that's built up when you immediately let off the throttle for a shift. Then the rpms hang to bleed it off?

[Vogz]

I've always wondered what that is, could be excess boost that's built up when you immediately let off the throttle for a shift. Then the rpms hang to bleed it off?

It's probably something emissions related in the engine software.

[MrFunk]

Guys, the revs "hanging" on some 1-2 shifts is NOT the flywheel. An aftermarket LWFW will NOT eliminate it. It's in the engine tuning. My car does it just the same as it did before my LWFW install.

+1
It's designed that way... I was reading somewhere that it's supposedly to make for smoother shifts to let the rev hang. Also smooths out on/off throttle at higher RPM and just about eliminates engine braking....

[Thurston]

Guys, the revs "hanging" on some 1-2 shifts is NOT the flywheel. An aftermarket LWFW will NOT eliminate it. It's in the engine tuning. My car does it just the same as it did before my LWFW install.

is it that delay valve in the slave line or w/e? so what does the lwfw benefit you in the s4 besides weight savings, sir? clutch feel and ease?

[Vogz]

is it that delay valve in the slave line or w/e? so what does the lwfw benefit you in the s4 besides weight savings, sir? clutch feel and ease?

No, the delay valve has nothing to do with the revs hanging. The LWFW in theory removes rotational mass from the drivetrain freeing up HP to make the car faster in a straight line. Who knows if it really makes a measurable difference. The reason I bought a LWFW is because dual mass flywheels have a tendency to fail when abused and also because the friction surface can be replaced very easily. Thus, it will be the last flywheel I ever buy for the car.

[Ze_Nardo6]

Just wanted to give everyone an update on this:

I have around 600-800 city miles on this new clutch and flywheel now and the car drives MUCH better. The shudder has gone down drastically. I believe this to be a combination of the clutch being fully broken in as well as learning to drive with the new setup.

Unfortunately when I hit around the 500 mile break-in period, my car, like many others here, wouldn't start. The "depress clutch pedal to start car" label came on and my car wouldn't start for 20 minutes sometimes. I immediately thought it to be the clutch fork but after further reading the symptoms were more indicative of the master clutch cylinder needing replaced. Seeing as that was the much cheaper option as well, I opted to go that route. Problem completely gone, for now.

Hope this helped scare fewer people away from these aftermarket clutches.

On a lighter note, I launched my car for the first time ever. I was honestly scared that the clutch would slip like it did when stock but it gripped and ripped like crazy. I had to do it a few more times and couldn't wipe the grin from my face. AWD burnouts > RWD burnouts

[DGVR6]

Hmm .. I'll try changing out the master and see if that works.. Thanks for the tip !

Yea this thing grabs
Enjoy the clutch

[Chandler]

Just wanted to give everyone an update on this:

I have around 600-800 city miles on this new clutch and flywheel now and the car drives MUCH better. The shudder has gone down drastically. I believe this to be a combination of the clutch being fully broken in as well as learning to drive with the new setup.

Unfortunately when I hit around the 500 mile break-in period, my car, like many others here, wouldn't start. The "depress clutch pedal to start car" label came on and my car wouldn't start for 20 minutes sometimes. I immediately thought it to be the clutch fork but after further reading the symptoms were more indicative of the master clutch cylinder needing replaced. Seeing as that was the much cheaper option as well, I opted to go that route. Problem completely gone, for now.

Hope this helped scare fewer people away from these aftermarket clutches.

On a lighter note, I launched my car for the first time ever. I was honestly scared that the clutch would slip like it did when stock but it gripped and ripped like crazy. I had to do it a few more times and couldn't wipe the grin from my face. AWD burnouts > RWD burnouts

I see you are using the SMS tune - good to see. Are you liking the E85 tune?

Where did you get your master cylinder at?

[Ze_Nardo6]

I see you are using the SMS tune - good to see. Are you liking the E85 tune?

Where did you get your master cylinder at?

Bought it directly from Audi, I get a discount at my dealer through a buddy.

The car is FAST with the e85 tune. It needed a few tanks to run smoothly and spark plugs needed replaced (hit 40k miles). But I'm telling you, the difference from stage II 93 to stage II e85 is substantial. It pulls much harder.

[netimebut4]

I threw a stage 4 clutch on my car last year from eurocode, jeez was that a horrible idea lol. You have to rev the car up to almost 3k to take off and in between shifting fast the pedal sticks to the floor lol.Pretty sure the clutch is going now as well, I should have went with a stage 2.

[Thurston]

Bought it directly from Audi, I get a discount at my dealer through a buddy.

The car is FAST with the e85 tune. It needed a few tanks to run smoothly and spark plugs needed replaced (hit 40k miles). But I'm telling you, the difference from stage II 93 to stage II e85 is substantial. It pulls much harder.

I bet it does, the numbers they posted regarding the e85 stg II sure seemed substantial. Sleek ride s4b8.

[Thurston]

I threw a stage 4 clutch on my car last year from eurocode, jeez was that a horrible idea lol. You have to rev the car up to almost 3k to take off and in between shifting fast the pedal sticks to the floor lol.Pretty sure the clutch is going now as well, I should have went with a stage 2.

That's awful man absolutely awful... what is the benefit of stage 4, just for monster power cars?

[netimebut4]

Tell me about it lol. Yes, I don't even know why its available. My intentions were to go stage 3 eventually or something to equivalent power. I got a good deal on a GTR and things changed lol. Now the car is basically stock with a very unforgiving clutch lol. eventually I will get the OEM clutch re-surfaced and sell the car as is.

[Thurston]

Tell me about it lol. Yes, I don't even know why its available. My intentions were to go stage 3 eventually or something to equivalent power. I got a good deal on a GTR and things changed lol. Now the car is basically stock with a very unforgiving clutch lol. eventually I will get the OEM clutch re-surfaced and sell the car as is.

Well speaking of monster power cars.. nice.