Possible Oil Pump Failure

[Ori0n]

Hi guys,

Recently bought an 2007 2.0T and have been catching up on some maintenance items. Replaced the fuel filter, did some PCV work, and basically went over the whole car and figured things were in pretty good shape. Car has 171km on it. Went out to do some logging today, and everything was going well. Was doing my last log of requested vs. actual boost and took the car to redline for the first time, when I got to about 7k RPM on 3rd gear I felt a loss of power and a weird feeling in the steering. So I let off and braked fairly hard with the clutch engaged and once the RPM got down to 2k RPM I could really hear some frightening noises so I got it in neutral and stopped as fast as I could and shut it off.

I opened the hood and then started it up for no more than 10 seconds to see where the noise was coming from and it was definitely the head making a racket. It sounds like there's no oil pressure up there.

What's my next move? I'm thinking of hooking up an oil pressure gauge and turning the car over with the fuel/injectors cut off to see if it creates any pressure.

I should note since I got the car I've gotten an oil pressure warning on the dash twice now, once before changing the oil for the first time and finding the filter seemingly hadn't been changed in a while (My guess is 40,000km which was when the last SRI reset was performed and roughly when the previous owner got the car). The filter was quite deformed, never seen anything quite like it. A previous post of mine goes over this, if you want to see the filter: (Clicky). The second pressure warning happened today right before I did my logging. I have a new oil pressure switch which I've yet to install and I basically just ignored the warning. It only seemed to happen at idle. Both times it occurred I was idling in a parking lot.

Here's some tow truck porn for all you masochists...



Yeah, I'm missing a door blade. Anyone got one they'd like to sell me?

[martin0079]

If it is coming from the head check the cam follower and chain tensioner first if both are fine then go into oil pressure

[UberTeile]

...took the car to redline for the first time...about 7k RPM on 3rd gear...

In aeronautical terms, I believe they'd call that "war power"....those engines require a total rebuild immediately afterwards. From your description, I fear that you may be facing the same.

[Okedokey]

Having been in the airforce, I have never come across this. Mostly it has to do with the accelerometer readings, however engines are protected from damage...

[UberTeile]

(OT)

Having been in the airforce, I have never come across this. Mostly it has to do with the accelerometer readings, however engines are protected from damage...

I've heard it used in relation to large, commercial aircraft...could be an older term as well.

[Okedokey]

Overs-stressing commercial engines would only happen in extreme situations I would think

[Ori0n]

I never really use "war power" haha, but you know... I love to stress a new car before I feel I can trust it. :P

The more and more I think about this I feel the cam follower blew... Tomorrow I'll dig into it.

What's the best way to bleed the fuel pressure before taking it off seeing as how I am not able to turn the motor over right now?

EDIT: Not that I'm not able, but I don't want to.

[Okedokey]

Just remove it and avert your eyes ;)

[SteveA4B7]

If it is coming from the head check the cam follower and chain tensioner first if both are fine then go into oil pressure

As Martin said- start with those two and work your way down.

Also, check your oil strainer inside the oil pan. Getting the oil pan off... Well that's a whole different battle to fight.
Oil strainer on my 07 2.0T was clogged to the point where the cam chain snapped, and that before I had time to shut it off. Luckily no bent valves.

With a filter looking like the one you removed, there might be a possibility of debris clogging it.

[B7OrangeA4]

Id start with checking the cam follower, then removing the valve cover to check for possible damage. Also drain the oil and check for any metal in it. I had a failing balance shaft in my oil pump back in march. It wasnt fun. You can get a used one for between $250-450 on ebay

[67Twisty]

Id start with checking the cam follower, then removing the valve cover to check for possible damage. Also drain the oil and check for any metal in it. I had a failing balance shaft in my oil pump back in march. It wasnt fun. You can get a used one for between $250-450 on ebay

What were your symptoms? How did you know the balance shaft was failing

[Ori0n]

What were your symptoms? How did you know the balance shaft was failing

You're either going to have noise, or noise and no oil pressure. They've either failed or they haven't.


So I checked the cam follower, it needs replacing, as well as my intake camshaft by the looks of it. I have no pictures of the cam follower lobes but there was one really rough spot on it which wasn't pretty at all.

Here's a pic of the cam follower:



The intake cam lobes for cylinders 3 and 4 look pitted:



Rollers look worn, not sure if they're bad enough to replace?



Bonus pic, sludge!



So I think either my oil pickup tube is clogged or the pump has failed, I believe the counter balances are fine by the sound of it...

[B7OrangeA4]

What were your symptoms? How did you know the balance shaft was failing

0 symptoms. Out of the blue low oil pressure dash warning. All maintenance up to date and no abnormal noise. shop hooked up a manual gauge and psi was fine at cold start but after the car warmed up it was low. The balance shaft became worn and had play

[Ori0n]

Welp.

Well my shop has gone over things. Motor is blown. Not sure about the turbo although I suspect it has bit of life left.

How would you spend 10k guys? My guy is telling me that's the high end of what it might cost me for him to find a used low k motor and swap it in.

I'm starting to question my enthusiasm for this platform but once it's on the road again I know I'll be happy...

I come from the B6 platform, is there an equivalent to the AEB head? Any other standout OEM parts I should be looking at in this situation? I guess I have some homework to do on the 2.0T.

[miA4]

go balls out and do the 2.7t swap if you're going to drop that kinda coin.

[iamshayan]

seems like we're in the same boat minus the cams.

check out my thread, did your motor sound anything like mine did in the videos?

I just got my motor out. going to tear it down soon and check the oil pump .

glad im not alone.

[Flotronux]

WOW I feel bad for you guys. Seems like these engines have nothing but problems. I've had my b7 for 30,000 miles now and i've stuck close to 6 grand into it just keeping it alive. It's getting to be pretty annoying. once you fix one thing another goes. I just don't understand why audi can't learn from there previous motors and make them better not worse. They had issues with the 1.8 oil pumps clogging so why not fix that issue? With all the newer advances it's just costing so much money to keep them running. I've always owned audis but i'm starting to think twice about it on my next car purchase which really pisses me off cause I like them so much but these new engines are nothing but problems. I just had a horrible experience with my a4. Had an issue where it would not start for the life of me and exhausted my efforts and had to take it to the dealership. cost me 1800$ and they got it started but still isn't running right and they could not figure out why so they forced me to pick it up saying I had to just live with the check engine light and rough running cause they can't figure out why with out just throwing parts at it. they wanted another $1800 but could not guarantee a fix. Unreal! After reading this post i'll be replacing the oil pump at 100K miles just to make sure this doesn't happen to mine.

[Kai@EliteMS]

1.8T Oil Pump Conversion Kit & Install Sale On 2.0T FSI Engines

1.8T Oil pump conversion kit gets rid of the problematic 2.0T assembly. We recommend this service to prevent any future oil starvation damages that may occur due to the failure of the balance shaft driven 2.0T OEM pump on your Audi/VW.

Removing the massive 2.0T pump not only reduces mechanical moving components but also expands room in the oil pan which equals an increase in oil capacity by 1 quart. To eliminate oil starvation and damaging upper components (cylinder head in this case) is key and by doing this conversion you achieve just that.

Can never go wrong with more lubrication and oil capacity especially in these engines.

For the first 5 conversions we are doing them for $1249 including parts & labor with new oil filter & 6 quarts synthetic oil. This is significantly cheaper than replacing a cylinder head and or in some cases entire long blocks and even cheaper than a 2.0T replacement pump.

Please call us to schedule your conversion today on your 2.0T engine. 631.775.6634 or email [email protected]

[Ori0n]

seems like we're in the same boat minus the cams.

check out my thread, did your motor sound anything like mine did in the videos?

I just got my motor out. going to tear it down soon and check the oil pump .

glad im not alone.

iamshayan i went through your thread last night actually. mine did not sound like yours. my head was getting no oil pressure so the noise i heard was far more "busy" (each lifter was clattering) where as yours only occurred when you revved, maybe you have a single stuck lifter?

[Ori0n]

In regards to the 2.0T Oil Pump with secondary balance shafts, I believe my pump failed due to lack of maintenance. I have reason to believe that the oil might not have been changed for 40k km.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, but as far as I can tell the shafts didn't snap. Once the motor is pulled apart I'll post pictures here.

[martin0079]

Welp.

Well my shop has gone over things. Motor is blown. Not sure about the turbo although I suspect it has bit of life left.

How would you spend 10k guys? My guy is telling me that's the high end of what it might cost me for him to find a used low k motor and swap it in.

I'm starting to question my enthusiasm for this platform but once it's on the road again I know I'll be happy...

I come from the B6 platform, is there an equivalent to the AEB head? Any other standout OEM parts I should be looking at in this situation? I guess I have some homework to do on the 2.0T.

You can drop a AEB head on the 2.0 bottom and use a B6 1.8 harness I thought about this option for a bit before deciding on the 2.7T swap. The best part about doing that is getting rid of the horrible fsi system.

[aluthman]

Welp.

Well my shop has gone over things. Motor is blown. Not sure about the turbo although I suspect it has bit of life left.

How would you spend 10k guys? My guy is telling me that's the high end of what it might cost me for him to find a used low k motor and swap it in.

I'm starting to question my enthusiasm for this platform but once it's on the road again I know I'll be happy...

I come from the B6 platform, is there an equivalent to the AEB head? Any other standout OEM parts I should be looking at in this situation? I guess I have some homework to do on the 2.0T.

That is absolutely insane. I'd be looking for a new shop. A used motor will run you about $2k-$2.5k with maybe another $1.5k for installation. $10k would buy you a brand new engine and installation at an Audi dealership with money left over.

[aluthman]

1.8T Oil Pump Conversion Kit & Install Sale On 2.0T FSI Engines

1.8T Oil pump conversion kit gets rid of the problematic 2.0T assembly. We recommend this service to prevent any future oil starvation damages that may occur due to the failure of the balance shaft driven 2.0T OEM pump on your Audi/VW.

Removing the massive 2.0T pump not only reduces mechanical moving components but also expands room in the oil pan which equals an increase in oil capacity by 1 quart. To eliminate oil starvation and damaging upper components (cylinder head in this case) is key and by doing this conversion you achieve just that.

Can never go wrong with more lubrication and oil capacity especially in these engines.

For the first 5 conversions we are doing them for $1249 including parts & labor with new oil filter & 6 quarts synthetic oil. This is significantly cheaper than replacing a cylinder head and or in some cases entire long blocks and even cheaper than a 2.0T replacement pump.

Please call us to schedule your conversion today on your 2.0T engine. 631.775.6634 or email [email protected]

How do you change the gear on the front of the crank with it still installed in the block? Also, do you replace the oil filter housing for the 1.8T version to avoid the super high oil pressures?

[Axis]

How do you change the gear on the front of the crank with it still installed in the block? Also, do you replace the oil filter housing for the 1.8T version to avoid the super high oil pressures?

I have two friends with euro indy shops and they both say you need the 1.8T oil filter housing to have the proper oil pressure. (My mechanic knowledge is null, I'm just doinv what they're telling me)

I bought the IE adapter plate

[martin0079]

How do you change the gear on the front of the crank with it still installed in the block? Also, do you replace the oil filter housing for the 1.8T version to avoid the super high oil pressures?

You pull off the front crank cover. The hardest part is doing the drilling unless you have a mag drill.

[aluthman]

You pull off the front crank cover. The hardest part is doing the drilling unless you a mag drill.

Drilling for what? The tensioner bolt?

[martin0079]

Drilling for what? The tensioner bolt?

see the install instructions.

http://www.uspmotorsports.com/Audi--...onversion.html

Direct link to pdf don't always work but here it is.

http://www.uspmotorsports.com/downloads/USPFSIOPK.pdf

[aluthman]

Luckily, my block is already drilled and tapped for the tensioner.

[borderline]

Let's face it: older Vw/Audi cars constantly need to be fixed all the time. We forget this when we drive them but I'm little bit tired of throwing cash on fixing anything on it. I didn't know about a possible oil pump issue, this is scaring! My next one will be a lexus I think, certainly not as fun to drive but certainly more reliable...

[iamshayan]

iamshayan i went through your thread last night actually. mine did not sound like yours. my head was getting no oil pressure so the noise i heard was far more "busy" (each lifter was clattering) where as yours only occurred when you revved, maybe you have a single stuck lifter?

no

[vce1232000]

Let's face it: older Vw/Audi cars constantly need to be fixed all the time. We forget this when we drive them but I'm little bit tired of throwing cash on fixing anything on it. I didn't know about a possible oil pump issue, this is scaring! My next one will be a lexus I think, certainly not as fun to drive but certainly more reliable...

Yes, I totally agree on the reliability factor . But its most Asian cars are boring to . Even the high end asians cars leave something to be desired. IMO all german cars cost money to maintain. Just part of the beast including mods How fast you wanna go? How much cash you got in your wallet

[Ori0n]

That is absolutely insane. I'd be looking for a new shop. A used motor will run you about $2k-$2.5k with maybe another $1.5k for installation. $10k would buy you a brand new engine and installation at an Audi dealership with money left over.

I'm in the middle of nowhere, Canada. Things tend to be more expensive around here. Even to ship a $2k motor from the states would cost me $4.5k with shipping/conversion rate right now. If it was just a motor swap, I would do it. His estimate is on the high side, it possibly goes into putting in a new clutch, any other parts while he's doing the swap. I'm still unsure about the turbo. He said if we're lucky it would be $6k - $7k...

I'm leaning towards breaking this motor down myself and rebuilding it, I have my B6 still which I was planning on winter driving anyways so...

no

NEAT! I'll be keeping an eye on your thread

[Ori0n]

You can drop a AEB head on the 2.0 bottom and use a B6 1.8 harness I thought about this option for a bit before deciding on the 2.7T swap. The best part about doing that is getting rid of the horrible fsi system.

This is interesting. I was thinking of this possibility today. I don't like FSI. Do you need to swap the ECU as well?

[martin0079]

This is interesting. I was thinking of this possibility today. I don't like FSI. Do you need to swap the ECU as well?

Yes you will as well as doing something with the lp fuel pump controller. Currently I think people have just left the controller plugged in and ran a 12v relay for fuel pump operation. Also depending on your plans a return fuel system as well.

[Ori0n]

Here's my current plans for the motor. It's a BWT.

Bottom:
-IE Rods
-Mahle Pistons +0.5mm
-Balanced crank
-1.8T Oil Pump
-Fluidampr

Top:
-???

I don't want to go BAT, maybe a GT28... Most likely just an S3 conversion. Not sure If it's worth my money to build the valvetrain.

Thoughts?

[aluthman]

Valvetrain is a lot of money for little gain. I would stay stock unless you plan to rev higher than the stock limiter.

[Ori0n]

Valvetrain is a lot of money for little gain. I would stay stock unless you plan to rev higher than the stock limiter.

Do you think it's worth balancing the crank if I'm not going to be revving past the stock limiter? I have no idea what this might cost.

[audihere06]

Do you think it's worth balancing the crank if I'm not going to be revving past the stock limiter? I have no idea what this might cost.

If you are going to delete the balance shafts, definitely have the entire rotating assembly balanced. Especially if you are changing rods/pistons. I did this when I did the 1.8 pump and it made all the difference. It runs smoother now than before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[martin0079]

Here's my current plans for the motor. It's a BWT.

Bottom:
-IE Rods
-Mahle Pistons +0.5mm
-Balanced crank
-1.8T Oil Pump
-Fluidampr

Top:
-???

I don't want to go BAT, maybe a GT28... Most likely just an S3 conversion. Not sure If it's worth my money to build the valvetrain.

Thoughts?

2618 mahle pistons? May want to consider stock or the S3 pistons for your power goals.

[Ori0n]

2618 mahle pistons? May want to consider stock or the S3 pistons for your power goals.

As far as I can tell the S3 pistons are 82.5mm. I keep seeing stories of people having oil consumption issues until they bore the engine out. I wish I would have been able to drive the car more before it blew up so I would know if it had this issue...

I really want to just do this once and be done.