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Thread: B5 V8 Swap

  1. #1
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    B5 V8 Swap

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    I'm finally able to start my *slow* 32V ABZ(A8) V8 DBC build from a 97 12v 2.8 Qtr 5spd. Wish me luck. Any pointers specifically for the 32V, feel free to add on. I COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT THE 40V INFO. The goal is to bolt up to an 01A, try to keep AC, get custom mounts , redo most if not all gaskets and seals, timing belt change with associated assemblies, locate speed sensor, figure out wiring (easy for me), ECU tune with cluster tune for V8 reference, and then tackle the cooling system and its installation. It'll be slow, but I'm determined not to drive the Mazda 3 for the rest of this decade.


    As of now, I only need to unbolt a stubborn driver side down-pipe to get it out.





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    Last edited by king84; 06-07-2017 at 10:26 PM.

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    Veteran Member Four Rings Bordom's Avatar
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    Subbed. Please let us (me) know what you had to repin to get this motor to run electronically.

    You are retaining the 97 instrument cluster yeah?
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    Senior Member Three Rings crazyquik22023's Avatar
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    I've been seeing a lot of b5 v8 swaps lately. Can't wait to see another one come together.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bordom View Post
    Subbed. Please let us (me) know what you had to repin to get this motor to run electronically.

    You are retaining the 97 instrument cluster yeah?
    Sure no problem. I will definitely keep it updated. If I remember it right from all the research, V6 clusters have an option to be coded to reflect as V8.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyquik22023 View Post
    I've been seeing a lot of b5 v8 swaps lately. Can't wait to see another one come together.
    Yes, they're popping up in more places. Even if most of them are 40V A6/S6 swaps, it's awesome to see that growth and ingenuity in the B5 realm. For me personally, I prefer to work with the Drive-by Cable.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings redline380's Avatar
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    Good to see a 32v going in. Had one in my 97 a8 and it was a great engine. Your car wont be slow when its done, but it wont be particularly fast either.

    Enjoy the swap.
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  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings Nollywood's Avatar
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    I have carried out both 32 and 40V swaps.

    I am currently carrying out 2 swaps, both 32 and 40V.

    The D2 chassis plugs are completely different to any year of B5. The first one I carried out in 2008 I ran with after market ECU (VEMS). The second one I carried out in early 2009 I ran with the OEM Bosch Motronic ME5. I ended up cutting off the original 1.8T (AEB) chassis plugs, with a decent length of the harness, which I soldered to the D2 harness, after cutting off the redundant plugs.

    Some wires are the same colour and function, others are different colours, but same function, while some others are the same colour, but different function. 2 wiring schematics side by side, and a weekend had it all worked out. This base car was a FWD '97 model, with stock 01A.

    Cluster coding? I didn't do any. Tacho reading was accurate, according to VCDS live data.

    One important note: it is essential you connect the ABZ speedo pick up to your original VSS, on the left of your front differential, AND get the other end at the chassis plugs CORRECTLY mated to your B5's receiving connectors. Without this, not only will your speedo not function, but without a VSS input, your ECU will limit maximum rpm to 5400, as opposed to the correct 6700.

    It is all too easy to retain the VSS side of your B5 harness to keep your speedo happy (and it will). But...your ABZ ECU will be pissed off, and so will you.

    Any questions, just holla.

    Oh, I forgot to add...my previous 32V swaps were AHC motors from the European S8, and so is the one destined for my current B5, though the schematic for both engine codes are the same.

    My 32V is going into a B5 2.5 TDI V6 24V Quattro (DBW), while my 40V is going into a B5 2.8 30V Quattro (DBW).

    Both are facelift 2000 models.

    Oh - what are you using as your flywheel solution?
    Last edited by Nollywood; 09-01-2015 at 02:19 PM.
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  8. #8
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  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings Nollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king84 View Post
    Flywheel option: similar to post on


    http://theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1219


    1. use the 034 insert
    2. find a PT or ABH Dual Mass OEM Flywheel
    And/or 3. a Fidanza flywheel

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    Don't bother with the 034 insert, unless you intend to go stand alone. The trigger for TDC is in a different location in automatics and manuals. If you run the auto flexiplate with your OEM ABZ ECU, your car will NOT run.

    The PT or ABH flywheels may work, though I have no idea if the crank trigger will line up with the crank sender location in an 01A. Dual mass? I doubt it was back in 1989. Even the European S8 manual has a single mass flywheel. So did the European S6 Plus.

    Fidanza, as in aluminium, with a steel insert? Umm, no.
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  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings Seerlah's Avatar
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Three Rings wolfe2118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nollywood View Post
    Don't bother with the 034 insert, unless you intend to go stand alone. The trigger for TDC is in a different location in automatics and manuals. If you run the auto flexiplate with your OEM ABZ ECU, your car will NOT run.
    I disagree. I have the 034 insert(unfortunately) and I'm running the stock 99 ABZ Ecu. I've put over 20K miles on mine with no ecu related issues. It's been very well documented on how to mark, drill, and mount the crank sensor pickup.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings Nollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfe2118 View Post
    I disagree. I have the 034 insert(unfortunately) and I'm running the stock 99 ABZ Ecu. I've put over 20K miles on mine with no ecu related issues. It's been very well documented on how to mark, drill, and mount the crank sensor pickup.
    Exactly pal. Marking, drilling and getting the location right.

    With the correct flywheel, you bolt it on, job done. When doing a swap, it's best to avoid any aspects that are likely to cause a non-start situation, or running, albeit poorly. Otherwise you're giving yourself more to troubleshoot.

    When carrying out swaps, if the motor will not run, you have to think what the cause could be - something you've not done in terms of wiring? Or poor triggering due to incorrect crank sensor location in relation to TDC on the flywheel? Or incorrect air gap? Heck, perhaps a combination of all the above.

    I understand where you're coming from, when you use the term "unfortunately".
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Three Rings wolfe2118's Avatar
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    I totally agree with having the correct flywheel but why throw out a bunch of "possibilities" when the 034 insert and crank sensor relocation has been already mastered.

    http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.p...&view=previous
    About halfway down the page you will find the easiest way to find the proper location.

    As much as I HATE 034, their insert is the cheapest and most reliable route.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Three Rings wolfe2118's Avatar
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    Here is the wiring schematic that I keep rolled up in my car.
    [IMG][/IMG]
    [IMG][/IMG]
    [IMG][/IMG]
    Feel free to ask any questions and I'll try to answer them but I'm not online too often so it may be awhile.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings Nollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfe2118 View Post
    I totally agree with having the correct flywheel but why throw out a bunch of "possibilities" when the 034 insert and crank sensor relocation has been already mastered.

    http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.p...&view=previous
    About halfway down the page you will find the easiest way to find the proper location.

    As much as I HATE 034, their insert is the cheapest and most reliable route.
    Wow. I've just seen what the 034 insert costs. Much more than it would cost me to get a genuine D2 S8 32V over to North America.
    2007 Audi RS4 Avant B7 - Misano Red Pearl Effect
    2007 Audi RS4 Saloon B7 - Sprint Blue
    2013 SEAT Exeo ST - Project 3R9 400-R
    2010 SEAT Exeo ST - Project 3R9 420-S
    1986 Type 85 Audi 90 quattro

  16. #16
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    What was your choice of clutch used to handle your ABZ?


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  17. #17
    Registered User Four Rings ModdedEuros's Avatar
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    Awesome to see another one of these done. Local guy around here has one and it is such a sleeper in that body

  18. #18
    Senior Member Three Rings wolfe2118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nollywood View Post
    Wow. I've just seen what the 034 insert costs. Much more than it would cost me to get a genuine D2 S8 32V over to North America.
    I see they went up $100 in the past year and a half...one more reason I hate 034 on top of the shitty customer service.
    How much for one shipped to 46845?

    I'm using the Southbend clutch that they recommend(apparently, it's gone up in price as well since I purchased it).

  19. #19
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfe2118 View Post
    I see they went up $100 in the past year and a half...one more reason I hate 034 on top of the shitty customer service.
    How much for one shipped to 46845?

    I'm using the Southbend clutch that they recommend(apparently, it's gone up in price as well since I purchased it).

    Yeah, I noticed that. The ABZ's in a nearby yard in Seattle were selling for $400 with the full harness, then jumped up to 500 within a year.

    Nollywood or wolfe2118, were either of you guys able to reuse all or some of the associated assemblies such as the Power Steering Pump, Amp, and condenser? If so, what was the difficulty level of routing hoses/wires and space?

  20. #20
    Senior Member Three Rings wolfe2118's Avatar
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    Compressor, alternator, and power steering pump are all used from the 4.2 I initially used the 1.8 alternator but alignment was off and it threw the belt off. I went a different route with my cooling system but the 1.8 radiator WILL work with some modifications. I ground off the grooves of the inlet and outlet to accept a regular hose and clamp at first then decided to upgrade to a custom radiator although I never seen a difference in cooling by upgrading. The power steering lines need some splicing if I'm not mistaken but there wasn't anything difficult about it that I can recall.

    The original condensor can be used but you will need either a very slim fan or you can hack your bumper reinforcement bar to fit a fan in. Currently I'm using my custom radiator from a TT, a universal condensor(because the hood latch hit on the stock condensor), two 12" fans, a universal fan switch wired to the high speed input of the stock fan relay, and a metal upper coolant pipe that I made. The A/c lines are pretty easy to fab up as long as you can solder with a propane torch. Actually my old 1.8 A4 is still rolling around with a barbed fitting and hose clamps where a high side line split four years ago so it's very possible to just cut off the crimped on collars and use hose clamps to put together your own ac lines.



    Here you can see how my hood stays closed. I simply fastened a steel plate across the bottom side of the hood lock carrier. Once you cut the plastic out to fit the engine under the hood lock carrier(radiator support), your hood will not have much support unless you reinforce the bottom side of it. Also you can see how the upper hose makes an immediate right turn when it comes out of the radiator.


    The lower hose comes straight out, goes up and behind the A/C compressor, then back forward and takes another 90 degree across the front of the engine. I have since built a metal pipe with all of these bends but until recently, these were all pieced together using hose, scrap 1.5" electrical conduit, and clamps.


    This was my first coolant setup using P trap pipe(the kind that's under sinks(it's all I had at the time)). This never failed, it was just replaced when I got the new aluminum radiator.



    Belt routing. I have since gotten rid of the idler pulley next to the alternator. The tensioner is from a 2000 A6 4.2. I had to make an aluminum spacer for it then just one bolt holds it to the A/C /P/S bracket. The belt you need is a 685k6. You could go a tad shorter but this belt works.



    My exhaust is an Ebay B5 S4 dual 2.5 but if you can weld(which you will have to when you make your engine mounts), you are better off just building your own. 3 bolt header collectors from summit work fine without any gaskets although I do plan on adding doughnut gaskets the next time I'm in there because I do get a exhaust tic occasionally. 2.5" mandrel bends and some flex joints and you are set.
    Here are my downpipes.


    Also, I am no longer using any OEM engine mounts. I am using all custom Engine mounts and bushings. http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...-isolators.asp
    Because of this, I do not have a "front" snub mount. I have two engine mounts and two transmission mounts. My engine pulleys are about 1/4" from my radiator so if there was any movement, my radiator would be toast by now.

    I hope this helped you and remember that this is NOT rocket science. It doesn't matter what parts you use or what the end result looks like. All that matters is that it runs, drives, and puts a smile on your face. BTW, this is my daily driver. This car sees 100 MPH almost daily, then once I'm home from work it is the family hauler. I estimate almost 30k miles has been put on this swap(my speedometer sender was melted for the first few months) and it has been pretty trouble free in relation to the swap itself. I am still in the process of adding an external oil cooler but that hasn't been a priority because this summer has been relatively mild here.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfe2118 View Post
    Compressor, alternator, and power steering pump are all used from the 4.2 I initially used the 1.8 alternator but alignment was off and it threw the belt off. I went a different route with my cooling system but the 1.8 radiator WILL work with some modifications. I ground off the grooves of the inlet and outlet to accept a regular hose and clamp at first then decided to upgrade to a custom radiator although I never seen a difference in cooling by upgrading. The power steering lines need some splicing if I'm not mistaken but there wasn't anything difficult about it that I can recall.

    The original condensor can be used but you will need either a very slim fan or you can hack your bumper reinforcement bar to fit a fan in. Currently I'm using my custom radiator from a TT, a universal condensor(because the hood latch hit on the stock condensor), two 12" fans, a universal fan switch wired to the high speed input of the stock fan relay, and a metal upper coolant pipe that I made. The A/c lines are pretty easy to fab up as long as you can solder with a propane torch. Actually my old 1.8 A4 is still rolling around with a barbed fitting and hose clamps where a high side line split four years ago so it's very possible to just cut off the crimped on collars and use hose clamps to put together your own ac lines.



    Here you can see how my hood stays closed. I simply fastened a steel plate across the bottom side of the hood lock carrier. Once you cut the plastic out to fit the engine under the hood lock carrier(radiator support), your hood will not have much support unless you reinforce the bottom side of it. Also you can see how the upper hose makes an immediate right turn when it comes out of the radiator.


    The lower hose comes straight out, goes up and behind the A/C compressor, then back forward and takes another 90 degree across the front of the engine. I have since built a metal pipe with all of these bends but until recently, these were all pieced together using hose, scrap 1.5" electrical conduit, and clamps.


    This was my first coolant setup using P trap pipe(the kind that's under sinks(it's all I had at the time)). This never failed, it was just replaced when I got the new aluminum radiator.



    Belt routing. I have since gotten rid of the idler pulley next to the alternator. The tensioner is from a 2000 A6 4.2. I had to make an aluminum spacer for it then just one bolt holds it to the A/C /P/S bracket. The belt you need is a 685k6. You could go a tad shorter but this belt works.



    My exhaust is an Ebay B5 S4 dual 2.5 but if you can weld(which you will have to when you make your engine mounts), you are better off just building your own. 3 bolt header collectors from summit work fine without any gaskets although I do plan on adding doughnut gaskets the next time I'm in there because I do get a exhaust tic occasionally. 2.5" mandrel bends and some flex joints and you are set.
    Here are my downpipes.


    Also, I am no longer using any OEM engine mounts. I am using all custom Engine mounts and bushings. http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...-isolators.asp
    Because of this, I do not have a "front" snub mount. I have two engine mounts and two transmission mounts. My engine pulleys are about 1/4" from my radiator so if there was any movement, my radiator would be toast by now.

    I hope this helped you and remember that this is NOT rocket science. It doesn't matter what parts you use or what the end result looks like. All that matters is that it runs, drives, and puts a smile on your face. BTW, this is my daily driver. This car sees 100 MPH almost daily, then once I'm home from work it is the family hauler. I estimate almost 30k miles has been put on this swap(my speedometer sender was melted for the first few months) and it has been pretty trouble free in relation to the swap itself. I am still in the process of adding an external oil cooler but that hasn't been a priority because this summer has been relatively mild here.


    LOL.... I guess I'll be getting off a little early today. I wasn't expecting that much information, but it is very much appreciated.. If I come across a different way of putting it together, I'll make sure to update it here. Thanks.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    I was just checking out the differences between the 32v and 40v V8. I really don't like how close the idler is to thermostat.


    32v on top, 40v on the bottom.




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  23. #23
    Senior Member Three Rings wolfe2118's Avatar
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    I rarely drink but when I do, I spend two hours replying to a comment. I hope this info helps. The wiring is really easy as long as you understand what the ecu needs to run the engine.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Three Rings wolfe2118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king84 View Post
    I was just checking out the differences between the 32v and 40v V8. I really don't like how close the idler is to thermostat.


    32v on top, 40v on the bottom.




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    See that aluminum tab at the bottom of the oil pan on the 32V? cut that off as close to the block as possible if you plan to route the serpentine belt without an idler.

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings redline380's Avatar
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  26. #26
    Senior Member Three Rings wolfe2118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redline380 View Post
    Why? It's not needed.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Went through a bit of hell trying to unbolt the down-pipe and/or exhaust manifold.




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  28. #28
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Four hours later and many explicit gestures and emotions..... This B5 is no longer a V6 and it's finally out!!! Next on the list: deep cleaning and prepping to remove the 01A.




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  29. #29
    Senior Member Three Rings wolfe2118's Avatar
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    Are you going to use the 5spd? I've had good success with it so far. I had planned to do a 6spd swap but i havent found any good reason to do it yet. My car began life as an automatic....its happier with gears!

  30. #30
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfe2118 View Post
    Are you going to use the 5spd? I've had good success with it so far. I had planned to do a 6spd swap but i havent found any good reason to do it yet. My car began life as an automatic....its happier with gears!
    Yes, I'm keeping the 5-speed. I want to do the 6-speed, but I still need parts and its only 300 horses i'm working with........ for now.

  31. #31
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    So far.....

    I didn't cut any part of the engine harness or associated hoses (including the two sitting over the trans that goes into the back end of the engine). The hoses I disconnected either had fittings, clamps, or retainer clips.

    I did refer to the old school B5 S4 engine pull tutorial on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFm4utgahZM).

    Video says to unbolt the crank sensor off the bell housing to avoid ripping it out, but IMO its a PAIN to even attempt to access with a 12V engine from the top. I just disconnected the sensor and moved its sleeved wire over to where it's mounted. I kinda avoided going under the car for anything during most of the disassembly unless it was the bottom end of the trans. For access and maneuverability, it helps to remove the oil cooler before the condenser, and also the alternator.

    To unbolt the trany, I started with the starter bolts first then worked my way around. This is probably the only time i had to go under the car, aside from dealing with the rusted down-pipe bolts.

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings Bordom's Avatar
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    But, the crank sensor is right there underneath the car...

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    IG: 24_et

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    2010 Deep Sea Blue S4 6-spd

    RIP:
    2001.5 Brilliant Black S4 6-spd

  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings Nollywood's Avatar
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    I've never had any issues getting to the crank sensor, and removing it. Even on a B5 S4, with its much more cramped engine bay.

    Access is via the left hand side wheel arch.
    2007 Audi RS4 Avant B7 - Misano Red Pearl Effect
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  34. #34
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Are you referring to this easy accessible sensor??? Because it looks like a pain just to gain access to it. The other plug comes from the plug location forward of the engine where I would usually insert the pin tool to lock the crank during a TB change. Surprisingly, the sensor was not attached to the trans. Instead it was attached to the engine. It was easier to disconnect the connector located up top, then move and tuck the wiring near its mounting location. I didn't need to be underneath the car unless i had to gain access to the lower bolts of the trans.





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  35. #35
    Veteran Member Four Rings Bordom's Avatar
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    That's the one. Underneath my 96 its right there and easily accessible. I don't understand how is a complicated process.

    Book time to replace one is 2.5hrs though. But its easily done in less than 1/4 that time

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  36. #36
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bordom View Post
    That's the one. Underneath my 96 its right there and easily accessible. I don't understand how is a complicated process.

    Book time to replace one is 2.5hrs though. But its easily done in less than 1/4 that time

    Everything graciously mispelled by Android
    Yes you have a point, it is accessible from below. I have 97 12v Quattro. I should of said it required more time to take it out. Its location is different versus an S4 video. I just didn't feel the need to unbolt anything when i can just move the wiring. That's less bolts to worry about and I can deal with its orientation later anyway. The only part that was a pain was the downpipes/exhaust...... in my case.

  37. #37
    Veteran Member Four Rings Nollywood's Avatar
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    I forgot your car is a 12V.

    Man, trash that sensor. It's a Hitachi unit, and not the best to run Bosch Motronic with. It won't bolt to your transmission, neither will it be any good to mount to your ABZ block.

    I had the same on my old B5 2.6 V6 12V Quattro, and the best thing I did when I threw an S8 32V motor in was bin it.
    2007 Audi RS4 Avant B7 - Misano Red Pearl Effect
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  38. #38
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    01A trans is out. Simple process.




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  39. #39
    Veteran Member Four Rings Nollywood's Avatar
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    Good job!

    Just out of curiosity - what did you do with your aircon gas?
    2007 Audi RS4 Avant B7 - Misano Red Pearl Effect
    2007 Audi RS4 Saloon B7 - Sprint Blue
    2013 SEAT Exeo ST - Project 3R9 400-R
    2010 SEAT Exeo ST - Project 3R9 420-S
    1986 Type 85 Audi 90 quattro

  40. #40
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nollywood View Post
    Good job!

    Just out of curiosity - what did you do with your aircon gas?
    :) For the moment, the aircon assembly is still all intact. After unbolting the condenser from the engine, I just swung it over to the passenger side so it's out of the way. Haven't disconnected the system itself in terms of draining it. i'll drain it later. Its late (3:30am).

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