2009 2.0T Cranks but wont start

[sadj2885]

Hey guys. The other night the car wouldn't start up, luckily it was in my street and not during my mini road trip I got back from the day before. I initially thought it might be the battery since it hasn't been replaced yet, but that has been ruled out. Fuel pump seems to be working fine. I have not yet had a chance to check the coils or spark plugs, but those were replaced within the past 10-15k miles along with the water pump and thermostat. Is there anything else I can check myself before getting it towed to a shop? I unfortunately don't have access to a VAG-COM to see if there's any error codes.

[The Infiltrator]

Why is the battery ruled out?

Invest in the VAG-COM, stop slacking.

[sadj2885]

Tried jumping it, still wouldn't start. I usually use my uncle's VAG-COM, but he wont let me borrow it for the day and wont take time out of his day to come by me.

[The Infiltrator]

Tried jumping it, still wouldn't start. I usually use my uncle's VAG-COM, but he wont let me borrow it for the day and wont take time out of his day to come by me.

So it won't hold a charge to start, I'm pretty sure it's your battery. Even if you bought one and it wasn't it, you can always return it but I'm sure that's the issue. Work on getting a VAG-COM though, it's very nice to have one for these cars.

[sadj2885]

Wouldn't jumping it get the car started at least? Everything lights up, engine cranks, fuel pump hums, etc. so i figured the battery is still good.

[The Infiltrator]

Wouldn't jumping it get the car started at least? Everything lights up, engine cranks, fuel pump hums, etc. so i figured the battery is still good.

Not if it's completely dead, jumping it will turn everything on but the car won't start. Do you know anyone with a battery tester?

[STA4]

Not if it's completely dead, jumping it will turn everything on but the car won't start. Do you know anyone with a battery tester?

I don't understand your logic. When you jump a battery, you're essentially using someone else's battery to start your car.

Does the car sputter at all? Have you tried flooring the gas pedal when starting?

[The Infiltrator]

I don't understand your logic. When you jump a battery, you're essentially using someone else's battery to start your car.

Does the car sputter at all? Have you tried flooring the gas pedal when starting?

lol, yeah I just read what I wrote and I didn't type it out right. Trying to type on here and type stuff out for work at the same time.



It's very unlikely you battery is completely dead but then again there is the small chance. Leave the cables connected for a few minutes before trying to start your car and have them rev it and keep it steady at about 3k rpm's. See if that works, it has for me in the past and when that didn't work it was always the battery. Not likely to be the starter or alternator.

[sadj2885]

It's not sputtering. I'll guess changing the battery is the best place to start. I'll try that tonight and see. At almost 80k miles it might be time to be replaced anyways.

[TCHUN003]

Change the battery.

[b6Hate4]

Once the battery is changed if that does not help:

1) Check all fuses. Fuse for a fuel pump could have blown
2) Check for spark
3) Seeing how you have a 2009 I would check compression.

[Sales@DriveAuto]

Where in NJ? We're happy to help if you need a shop!

[sadj2885]

Fuses all look good, I checked those first. I'll check for spark after changing battery, if it's still not working. Not sure how I'll be able to test compression myself though.

[Sales@DriveAuto]

Fuses all look good, I checked those first. I'll check for spark after changing battery, if it's still not working. Not sure how I'll be able to test compression myself though.

You'll need something like this: http://www.tooltopia.com/otc-tools-5606.aspx

[STA4]

Fuses all look good, I checked those first. I'll check for spark after changing battery, if it's still not working. Not sure how I'll be able to test compression myself though.

So the engine turns over, but doesn't start?

Did you try with the gas pedal floored?

[sadj2885]

Yes, engine turns over but doesn't start. I tried giving it gas, but that didn't help.

[B44]

does the fuel pump make the primming noise when you open the driver side door?

[sadj2885]

Sounds like it does.

[bluetori]

It really seems like a battery, also do you have MMI because once you get a VCDS you can enable the battery gauge to check life lime the oil meter.

[STA4]

Sounds like it does.

There's also a high pressure fuel pump on the engine

[sadj2885]

Replaced the battery and still no good. My neighbor helped me check it out today and thinks its the high pressure fuel pump. Took spark plugs out and they were bone dry after trying to crank it a few times. I also checked if there was any pending fault codes and had P052A and P2294. P2294 indicates Fuel Pressure Regulator 2 Control Circuit and P025A didn't have much data other than something with the camshaft being in wrong position or something like that. I'm hoping the camshaft hasn't been damaged. I'm going to take the pump out and check it and the cam follower. Not happy about it.

[van462]

This cars high pressure fuel pump uses a roller cam follower. Not much chance of damage there. The pump is ecu controlled to vary its output. Basically the pump is being mechanically actuated by the cam but a solenoid controls when the pump chamber fills to vary its output pressure. If you loosen the fuel input and fuel comes out then likely your low pressure pump in the tank is working.

[sadj2885]

Yeah, we tried taking the fuel inlet hose off and fuel started squirting out as soon as we squeezed the clamp on it, so the low pressure pump is definitely working. Is it safe to say that I should just replace the high pressure fuel pump and cam follower? Or is it possible that the solenoid is defective and I can just replace that? I thought the connector was for a pressure sensor, not a solenoid, though.

[van462]

The pressure sensor is a stand alone sensor on the fuel rail. The solenoid is the fuel pressure regulator, built into the fuel pump. The cam roller usually doesn't wear out (unlike the cam follower on the previous FSI motor).

Being that 2009 was a crossover year, you do have a b8 sedan and not a b7 convertible correct?

[sadj2885]

Yeah, B8 sedan. Cam follower is 20 bucks so i might as well replace that while i have the fuel pump off.

[sadj2885]

I took the high pressure fuel pump off last night and examined it but im not really sure what to be looking for. The cam follower looked to be in perfect condition and the camshaft itself seemed ok through the opening. I gave the pump a few good squeezes with my hands and fuel started spilling out of the outlet port, so it seems to be building pressure.

I have been reading up on the P052A code and there's a bunch of forum posts from VW owners who had this and it ended up being a failed timing chain tensioner. If that's the case, engine might be f**ked.

[m73m95]

I take it you checked the cam position sensor? Without that sensor, it likely won't even fire the injectors.

Bent valves are extremely easily determined by just cranking it (You said it cranks). Does the engine sound like it has compression, or does it sound like the starter has zero trouble turning the engine? Can you crab the crank pulley and turn the engine by hand with little effort.

[Sales@DriveAuto]

I took the high pressure fuel pump off last night and examined it but im not really sure what to be looking for. The cam follower looked to be in perfect condition and the camshaft itself seemed ok through the opening. I gave the pump a few good squeezes with my hands and fuel started spilling out of the outlet port, so it seems to be building pressure.

I have been reading up on the P052A code and there's a bunch of forum posts from VW owners who had this and it ended up being a failed timing chain tensioner. If that's the case, engine might be f**ked.

Did you have any symptoms of a failing tensioner in the last couple of miles? You may want to get it checked out by a shop before you keep throwing parts at it.

[sadj2885]

The car seemed to be running fine prior to it not starting. I drove it about 300 miles the day before it happened without any hiccups.

[sadj2885]

Any idea what the voltage should be for the solenoid on the fuel pump? My father thought it was low when he checked it, but I'm not sure what it supposed to be.

[van462]

I'm not sure a voltage reading will work other to validate the ECU is sending a signal to it. The document I have just shows its controlled by either a pulse or a frequency. I believe the ECU changes the switching to it to meet a parameter read by the fuel pressure sensor. With an OBD scanner and torque app or even better a VAGCOM cable you could read the measurement off the fuel rail pressure sensor and see if its pressurizing. Its not one I would try to remove while under pressure. Even at idle the fuel rail is at 500psi and can go up to 1100+ on demand.

[sadj2885]

I take it you checked the cam position sensor? Without that sensor, it likely won't even fire the injectors.

Bent valves are extremely easily determined by just cranking it (You said it cranks). Does the engine sound like it has compression, or does it sound like the starter has zero trouble turning the engine? Can you crab the crank pulley and turn the engine by hand with little effort.

How would i test for a bad cam position sensor? Wouldnt I get a code saying it was bad? The starter seems to be cranking the engine fine, just doesn't start up. Nothing seems out of the ordinary.

What do I need to do to turn the engine by hand? Never did that before, Im really not good with troubleshooting engine problems, I can just swap parts here and there.

FYI, i received the new pump on Saturday, take it out of the box, and the guy sent me the pump for a B7. I was furious.

[van462]

[/QUOTE]FYI, i received the new pump on Saturday, take it out of the box, and the guy sent me the pump for a B7. I was furious.[/QUOTE]

For 2009's it much safer to look up parts using 2010 as your model year. About the only part that changed was the side view mirrors and they dropped the 3.2 from the engine lineup. This helps keep those convertible parts from showing up in searches.

M73m95 likely mentions turning the motor by hand to verify a timing problem. if it turns extremely easy your timing is so far off that the valves are open during the compression stoke and there would be little to no compression or if they were hitting the pistons you may feel that as well.

A completely failing cam position sensor should generate a fault code.

[sadj2885]

I ordered it by part number not by car model and they sent me the one for the B7 with a completely different part number. They acknowledged its their fault and im hoping that they will overnight the right one this time.

I actually just got done switching out the cam position sensor since it was a 20$ part at my local auto parts store, but it didnt solve the issue.

Ill see if i can get to the crank at some point in the next hour or two.

[m73m95]

Do you have a VAGCOM cable? Voltages of the cam sensor could be checked when the engine is cranking. I've seen cars not know the cam sensor was bad, they only showed the cam was in the wrong position, or not moving at all...so it shuts off the injectors. It's merely a hunch.

This seems like a problem with a (relatively) easy solution that's just being overlooked. I highly doubt a mechanical problem.

When you open the drivers door, can you hear the low pressure pump run for a few seconds to prime the system?
The HPFPs in these cars are pretty stout. I've never seen one just instantly fail.
You're positive there is spark?
To me, it almost has to be a sensor of some kind. If there is no fuel, its because the ECU isn't firing them for some reason.

[sadj2885]

I just got done looking at it with my dad and hes 90% sure its the fuel pressure sensor. I removed the HPFP maybe 30 minutes after trying to start the car and there was no pressure in the outlet port.

According to him from what hes researched, he thinks the fuel pressure sensor is bad and telling the computer that the fuel rail has pressure, even though it doesn't. In turn the ecu is keeping the fuel pump closed constantly. It makes sense, but who knows if its accurate. I also have no idea how to remove that sensor without taking the manifold off. Need to do some research.

And to answer your questions, low pressure fuel pump is verified to be working. HPFP is still in question. It is sparking.

[sadj2885]

I'm really worried about the P052A code it has. Camshaft position timing over advanced...

[sadj2885]

I talked to a service tech that works at an Audi dealership and he said it might just be the high pressure fuel pump but if its not its probably that the timing belt jumped. I will be replacing the pump tonight finally to see if that is it. If it still doent work, I will most likely be taking it to the dealer and making a call to AoA. Should it need to be rebuilt on my dime, I will most likely be looking for a new car.

[sadj2885]

Changing high pressure fuel pump and fuel pressure sensor didnt work. Im taking it to Audi next week. They said they saw some sort of warranty extension for my car from January, but they aren't sure of what it covers. Hopefully Audi of America extended the warranty on the entire engine when they swapped the turbo or did the pistons and rings. Ill know more next week, but I'm thinking timing chain might have slipped. At least I'll have a loaner car in the meantime instead of borrowing cars to get to work for 2 weeks now.

[m73m95]

Keep us updated.... We'd like to know what actually happened.