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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings dazed1's Avatar
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    RS 5 setup for track use

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    Many of the folks here use the car for track purposes. I wanted to create a thread and use it to gain & share knowledge for what people have done to the car to help.

    To start off, I'm not an expert. In fact, this is the first car I've ever tracked. I have approximately 20-25 track days in the last 1.5 years.

    I started the car off completely stock for my first track weekend. I found the brakes to be weak. They provided decent bite, but there was fade towards the end of the day. I went ahead and did the initial upgrade, went with Pagid RS29 pads, Motul 660 brake fluid.

    I soon found that the rotors would need replacement. The rotors are very soft. For my second set, I went with the OEM rotors again. In a span of 1 year, about 10k miles, I went through 3 sets of rotors.

    I had started keeping track of the temperatures of my rotors. I realized that the Pagid's were starting to crumble after about 4 track days. A lot of it seemed to be due to heat. The rotors would get up to anywhere between 700-900*f. I needed a solution. I did have to improve my driving style and get smoother, but I thought that parts needed replacements too. I thought about going to pads that could support higher heat (Hawk DTC 60). But decided a different route.

    I first went with the 2 piece ECS rotors as they are supposed to help cool the rotors more. It did help, but not a lot. I also got aggressive in my driving after 1 year being on track. So I cannot compare the exact improvements it may have given. They are cheaper than OEM, so that is extremely helpful. :)

    After talking to a few folks at the track who have had heat issues on brakes on their cars (TTRS, S4), I saw their solutions. For the TTRS, it was easier to go with ducting that is offered on the R8. Unfortunately, our A arms are not shaped correctly to support it.

    Other solution was to use the Phaeton ducts. This works and fits correctly for the S4 and the S5, but not the RS.

    I work with an independent shop pretty regularly here in the Bay Area - Griffin Motorwerke, who have been helping me with the car. They were kind enough to get me a set of the R8 ducts and the Phaeton ducts to try, with no cost.

    They decided to fabricate something that resembles the Phaeton ducts, as that seemed the best solution to air from the scoop behind the bumper, to the rotors. Our rotor dust shields already have cuts in them to allow additional air. This made it easier.

    The end result were these custom fabricated ducts. I dont remember if they're made from aluminium, or steel.




    Here they are mounted on the car after being painted black:




    Bonus - car :)


    After getting the backing plate put in, I did a track day at Sonoma. I had another AZ member who tracks his car as well. This was a good comparison for me to see how the temps are doing on our cars. He is a very similar driver, our times were within .5 seconds of each other.

    I went with softer pads this time as we could not get the Pagid's in time. He was running the Pagid. I was running StopTech pads (don't remember part number).

    We were measuring the rotor temps after every session.
    His: 700-750*f
    Mine: 350-400*f

    To say the least, I am extremely pleased with this setup of rotors. I do want to see if I can get pads that have more bite on them, but don't cost $600 for a set. I will try that out probably in January or March of next year. Current set should last me till then.

    The other major change I did was switch from the Pirelli's to R compound tires - Toyo Proxies R888. For me, these are strictly track use only. I put them on before I go to the track, and they come off right away.
    I had to get another set of wheels for this setup though. I really wanted a set of 18's as the tires would be cheaper.

    Off I went to TireRack. I found various 18" wheels that would clear our rotors. Unfortunately I wanted something that was light, and not too expensive (like the BBS CH-R's).
    I came across the Tire Rack Motorsport wheel which seemed to be light enough, 19lbs each, and relatively cheap - about $250 per wheel. I would have loved to get the OZ wheels which were light and affordable, but TR only had 2 wheels in stock.

    The only 18" size that was available was 18x8 35ET. I wish I could have had a 8.5" wheel to run a more stiffer sidewall tire.

    The tires I ended up with were Toyo Proxies R888 255/35/18.
    I love the grip of the tire. Due to the load rating of the tires + our cars heavy weight, I have to be careful on the temperatures of the tires and play around with pressure to get the optimal temperature rating so as not endanger myself or anyone else on the track.

    Here's a few pictures of the wheels. The 18"'s really look tiny on our cars. :)
    Edit: I also run spacers with track wheels only. I believe 12.5 H&R on all 4.




    Edit:
    I also added a set of quick release harness with a custom made seat hoodie to hold the belt in place. Makes a great difference in keeping me well seated.


    Last edited by dazed1; 08-21-2015 at 07:41 AM.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Three Rings Steve_K's Avatar
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    Wow, this is an interesting read, keep the updates coming, I'll enjoy it.
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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings drob23's Avatar
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    Cool thread. There is a good track driving thread stickied in the b8 s4 section. Crazy how many rotors you have gone through. Psykotic went girodisc 2 piece in the front and it seems to be working for him.
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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings dazed1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
    Cool thread. There is a good track driving thread stickied in the b8 s4 section. Crazy how many rotors you have gone through. Psykotic went girodisc 2 piece in the front and it seems to be working for him.
    That is one of the reasons I put this up. I've seen that thread and it has a lot of useful information. Would be good to get others to contribute to it.

    I agree on the # of rotors I've been through. A lot has to do with learning how to drive the car correctly. And yes, curious to know what others are using, doing, and how it turns out for them.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings drob23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazed1 View Post
    That is one of the reasons I put this up. I've seen that thread and it has a lot of useful information. Would be good to get others to contribute to it.

    I agree on the # of rotors I've been through. A lot has to do with learning how to drive the car correctly. And yes, curious to know what others are using, doing, and how it turns out for them.
    I definitely look forward to reading this thread with contributions from you and your RS5 compatriots. For the record, that ducting work you did is incredible and fills in a massive void for all variants of this platform. I'm going to look into something similar.
    2013 S4 Monsoon Gray - S-Tronic - ADS
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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings dazed1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
    I definitely look forward to reading this thread with contributions from you and your RS5 compatriots. For the record, that ducting work you did is incredible and fills in a massive void for all variants of this platform. I'm going to look into something similar.
    For the S4, the phaeton ducts work. And surprisingly, being an original VW part, are relatively cheap at about $180 for the front set. Contact Alex @ Europrice.

  7. #7
    Stage 3 Forum Advertiser Four Rings ECS Tuning-Audi's Avatar
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    Glad to hear our rotors are holding up for you!

    I will say cooling makes a world of a difference on a track car, as you can clearly see from your test results. I would definitely recommend that anyone who tracks their car at least run something to help direct as much air as possible at the brakes.

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  8. #8
    Registered Member Four Rings Jimmy ny's Avatar
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    I wonder if a aftermarket brembo bbk would be better? In the front only of course.


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  9. #9
    Senior Member Three Rings musasabi's Avatar
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    Sub'd because documentation. =)
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Can you make another one of those air ducts

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings dazed1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy ny View Post
    I wonder if a aftermarket brembo bbk would be better? In the front only of course.


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    Maybe. But why spend 4k? We already get 8 piston calipers. The ECS rotors are cheaper than OEM, and better than OEM.

    If we can get better cooling with ducts, it does the job well.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings dazed1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AudiYes View Post
    Can you make another one of those air ducts
    Me, no. :) The shop, probably.

    Call Griffin Motorwerke and talk to Curly.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Where did they find the parts?

    Also, how do you remove the rear seat bottoms?
    SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings dazed1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by milesed View Post
    Where did they find the parts?

    Also, how do you remove the rear seat bottoms?
    Parts for the brake duct? They custom fabricated it after making a stencil.

    I dont know. It pops out, and you eventually end up breaking the tabs ;o

  15. #15
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Tommy@Nemesis's Avatar
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    Very nice write up! What kind of weight loss do you do for the track? Do you take the rear seats out? That will save you another 75 lbs(even though its in the rear)

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings dazed1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy@Nemesis View Post
    Very nice write up! What kind of weight loss do you do for the track? Do you take the rear seats out? That will save you another 75 lbs(even though its in the rear)
    Nope. Don't take the rear seats out.
    The wheels are lighter, 19lbs vs 27lbs (OEM). Take everything out from the trunk.

    But yes, weight loss would cause the biggest gain. This is one fat biatch :)

  17. #17
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Tommy@Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazed1 View Post
    Nope. Don't take the rear seats out.
    The wheels are lighter, 19lbs vs 27lbs (OEM). Take everything out from the trunk.

    But yes, weight loss would cause the biggest gain. This is one fat biatch :)
    Yea but I must say it feels so solid at speed. I drive the lighter more nimble Audis everyday and they are great on the small roads, but you can tell at higher speeds that they are not as "solid" feeling.

    My RS feels like a lot to toss around on small local roads, but once your moving and going hard, it points and executes very nicely.

    Other than the M4, a lot of cars similar to ours seem to fall in the 3800-4000 lb range...

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  18. #18
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Yeah imagine this car 600 pounds lighter!

  19. #19
    Senior Member Three Rings sshah's Avatar
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    Get an m4...
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  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings dazed1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sshah View Post
    Get an m4...
    Too bad that many members / friends / track folks who've gone from the RS5 to M3/4 don't really like the M on track as much as the RS.

    Yes, its lighter. Yes, it has more gizmos to help (HUD, Track timers, etc), but its just not enough fun from what I've heard.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Three Rings sshah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazed1 View Post
    Too bad that many members / friends / track folks who've gone from the RS5 to M3/4 don't really like the M on track as much as the RS.

    Yes, its lighter. Yes, it has more gizmos to help (HUD, Track timers, etc), but its just not enough fun from what I've heard.
    I have both and prefer the RS5 for my DD. but the track point is completely not even close to accurate.
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  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings LINDW4LL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sshah View Post
    I have both and prefer the RS5 for my DD. but the track point is completely not even close to accurate.
    +1, I don't understand that comment at all.

    I've not tracked a new M3/M4, but common sense would dictate that the M4 is far better and more fun on track. ~500lbs lighter, 70+hp advantage, less prone to understeer, etc...)
    -Hayden


  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings dazed1's Avatar
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    As I said, I've not driven the M3/M4 on track, and was surprised as well with that comment. I thought it would feel better too.
    SShah, have you tracked the M4?

  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings GotRS?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LINDW4LL View Post
    +1, I don't understand that comment at all.

    I've not tracked a new M3/M4, but common sense would dictate that the M4 is far better and more fun on track. ~500lbs lighter, 70+hp advantage, less prone to understeer, etc...)
    70+ advantage? The Gtronic warranty busting add-on? Whatever, the BMW would surely be track favorite.
    ...

  25. #25
    Senior Member Three Rings sshah's Avatar
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    Yeah I have an f80 m3 with ceramics. Tracks like a king with 18's on. I love the rs5 a ton but it could have easily been 300 lbs lighter.

    Like I said Rs5 is my daily driver and I love itttttt. But the m3 is very raw and outperforms the Rs5 in every which way.

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  26. #26
    Established Member Two Rings Dfw007's Avatar
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    Great thread. I'm taking the photo of your duct and giving it to my installer to fab. Any idea the height of the duct from the brake dust shield? Look about 2-3 inches...

    I notice you do have SS ECS brake lines, a must for the track as well, the heat and pressure on the lines is not something the oem rubber can handle. I also have the Alu kruez which seems to help a little with stability. Any changes to suspension such as shocks, struts, sways, arms, links? I am considering all of it, when the stock market recovers!
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  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings LINDW4LL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotRS? View Post
    70+ advantage? The Gtronic warranty busting add-on? Whatever, the BMW would surely be track favorite.
    Yeah, 70hp. RS makes ~350whp stock, M3 makes ~420.
    -Hayden


  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings dazed1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dfw007 View Post
    Great thread. I'm taking the photo of your duct and giving it to my installer to fab. Any idea the height of the duct from the brake dust shield? Look about 2-3 inches...

    I notice you do have SS ECS brake lines, a must for the track as well, the heat and pressure on the lines is not something the oem rubber can handle. I also have the Alu kruez which seems to help a little with stability. Any changes to suspension such as shocks, struts, sways, arms, links? I am considering all of it, when the stock market recovers!
    Good eye! Yes, those are the ECS SS lines as well.

    I don't have the exact measurements, but it is somewhere between 3-4". You should make a cardboard cutout and put it on the heatsheld with your track wheels. You want to make sure the offset of the wheels doesnt interfere with the duct.

    No other mods yet. I've been wanting to do the Alu Kruez, but one thing at a time. The whole purpose of getting brake ducts was to make parts longer and be able to enjoy the hobby without making it a total money pit.

    Friend of mine does have adjustable end links + AK from eurotag (or whatever the vendor is). He runs a negative camber of -2 with a proper track alignment. Running 19's with the R888.

  29. #29
    Established Member Two Rings drematic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AudiYes View Post
    Yeah imagine this car 600 pounds lighter!
    Weight is easily the RS5's biggest flaw when it comes to tracking it. The ongoing cost of maintenance makes it almost not worth it. I've been doing it for three years and I am itching to get something significantly lighter.

    Weight means increased wear and tear on brake components. Figure at least $1500 for fresh rotors and pads every 12 months. It also limits the selection of good track tires. With a hefty load index of 97/98 you're stuck with XLs and expensive Trofeos or Sport Cup 2s - independent of wheel diameter. No R888 or NTs available for that load and tire width. So figure another $1700-$2000 a year. Everything is more expensive at 4000 lbs.

    If you add it all up with labor and regular brake fluid flushes, you're easily looking at ~$5k annually for the privilege of moderately tracking your understeer-prone RS5.
    2013 []RS 5 | Daytona Gray on Black | MMI+ | Driver Assist | E-Codes | ROW Tail Lights | HRE P43SC | AK | ÜSS Sways and Links | Control Arms | XPEL | Euro Delivery

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings PsYkHoTiK's Avatar
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    Hmm...

    I somehow missed this thread.

    I'm a fellow destroyer of brakes:

    Stock rotors glowing red in bright daylight. :)

    And I'm not a fan of the stock rotors:


    I have actually been running custom made scoops as well. It has helped keep temps down with my aggressive pad choice - Carbotech XP24 for fronts XP12 for rears (Harry's laptimer showed 0.7G of braking lol - on street tires too)

    I've modified my suspension and am still in the process of experimenting with alignment settings. Will get track rubber at some point but for now, still using street tires (Michelin PSS). Mainly due to difficulties in finding sizes.

    I love my Girodisc front rotors. Really have been taking the abuse well.
    Current: 2013 Audi RS5 | Sepang Blue | Eurocode Alu Kreuz | 034 Transmission & Rear Diff Mount | Apikol Diff Mount | Girodisc 380mm Rotors | H&R RSS+ | SPC Upper Control Arms | H&R sways | AWE Track Extreme exhaust

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  31. #31
    Established Member Two Rings drematic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsYkHoTiK View Post
    And I'm not a fan of the stock rotors.
    That looks awfully familiar... :)

    Quote Originally Posted by PsYkHoTiK View Post
    I've modified my suspension and am still in the process of experimenting with alignment settings. Will get track rubber at some point but for now, still using street tires (Michelin PSS). Mainly due to difficulties in finding sizes.
    You're on 20" OEMs, right? I think Michelin Sport Cups at 265 are your only viable R option.

    I use my 19" OEMs on the track and can fit Trofeo R and Sport Cups. For a while I ran R888s, but it's somewhat dicey with a load index of 94 (3 under OEM). I was perfectly comfortable with it, but some clubs may not tech your car if the load index is under spec. FWIW, I once tracked my 20" street wheels on Pilot Super Sports and didn't like it at all. I think you can do definitely better even if you don't go full R.

    Btw, my alignment is a good compromise between track and street and works great on both. Ping me if you're interested in my detailed setup for comparison.
    2013 []RS 5 | Daytona Gray on Black | MMI+ | Driver Assist | E-Codes | ROW Tail Lights | HRE P43SC | AK | ÜSS Sways and Links | Control Arms | XPEL | Euro Delivery

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings PsYkHoTiK's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm running a fairly aggressive alignment setup as is and looking to go a bit more aggressive.

    Need to dig it up later when I'm off work and I'll post it here.

    Glad to know there's another owner tracking their RS5!


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    Old: 2011 Audi B8 S4 | Ice Silver | DSG | Sport Diff | APR 93 stage II+ V2

  33. #33
    Established Member Two Rings drematic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsYkHoTiK View Post
    Glad to know there's another owner tracking their RS5!
    What tracks do you do? Dazed1 (who started this thread) and I are regularly doing Sonoma, Thunderhill, Laguna Seca and Buttonwillow.


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  34. #34
    Veteran Member Four Rings PsYkHoTiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drematic View Post
    What tracks do you do? Dazed1 (who started this thread) and I are regularly doing Sonoma, Thunderhill, Laguna Seca and Buttonwillow.


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    I hit the tracks up here (The Ridge Motorsports Park, Oregon Raceway Park, Portland International Raceway). We went to Laguna Seca last year. Planning a trip out next year (waiting for HOD to release their calendar).
    Current: 2013 Audi RS5 | Sepang Blue | Eurocode Alu Kreuz | 034 Transmission & Rear Diff Mount | Apikol Diff Mount | Girodisc 380mm Rotors | H&R RSS+ | SPC Upper Control Arms | H&R sways | AWE Track Extreme exhaust

    Old: 2011 Audi B8 S4 | Ice Silver | DSG | Sport Diff | APR 93 stage II+ V2

  35. #35
    Veteran Member Four Rings dazed1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsYkHoTiK View Post
    I hit the tracks up here (The Ridge Motorsports Park, Oregon Raceway Park, Portland International Raceway). We went to Laguna Seca last year. Planning a trip out next year (waiting for HOD to release their calendar).
    Do a few with Audi Club. We have the nationals this year @ Sonoma in October.
    Its usually:
    January - ThunderHill
    March - Laguna Seca
    May - ThunderHill
    October - Sonoma
    November - Buttonwillow

    We end up doing Sonoma 1-2 times more with HOD. Its close enough (30-45 mins) to do 1 day events.

  36. #36
    Veteran Member Four Rings PsYkHoTiK's Avatar
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    Ooh, that's awesome. I run with Audi Club NW (almost all of the track days up here). When is the Nationals?

    I like running with HOD in group C with point bys.


    Sent from my Fruit Phone using Tapatalk
    Current: 2013 Audi RS5 | Sepang Blue | Eurocode Alu Kreuz | 034 Transmission & Rear Diff Mount | Apikol Diff Mount | Girodisc 380mm Rotors | H&R RSS+ | SPC Upper Control Arms | H&R sways | AWE Track Extreme exhaust

    Old: 2011 Audi B8 S4 | Ice Silver | DSG | Sport Diff | APR 93 stage II+ V2

  37. #37
    Veteran Member Four Rings dazed1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 18 2013
    AZ Member #
    107758
    Location
    SF Bay Area


  38. #38
    Senior Member Three Rings jamin_00's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 14 2014
    AZ Member #
    282633
    Location
    Essex, UK

    Another interesting read.

    I have now destroyed 2 sets of rotors in less than 6 months tracking. First found out the stock pads were as good as a chocolate teacup. then the stock rotors were about as much use as one too. Got my first set off rotors replaced under warranty believe it or not and went to Ferrodo DS2500 pads so not a too hard compound and they lasted better. 2 trackdays and 2 high speed runway days.

    Now have ordered some RS4-2 pads for road use only and some ECS Tuning rotors. Will add some RS29 pads for track use only but pads I expect to burn every 3 or 4 trackdays as track pads are not meant to be long lasting.

    Also going to do some mods to have increased airflow to them as i have nothing right now, the S doesn't come with anything so Im going to do what Scott did with the naca duct and place the outlet of the pipe in the best position for air to hit the rotor. Will also fabricate something on the the plate to help grab the air and send it to the rotors.

    Cant keep spending after every few trackdays lol as my car outperforms most others on track but my brakes are my biggest downfall!
    Audi S5 V6T 3.0 - Black Edition - Stage 2 MRC Tuning - 480bhp 580nm

  39. #39
    Veteran Member Three Rings ak_siberian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 30 2015
    AZ Member #
    312171
    My Garage
    T2 Touareg V8 & V6, RS5 & Gehl turbo bobcat
    Location
    20 miles NW Fairbanks, Alaska

    You could probably make a set of those air dams from a 3D printer.

    siberian
    The best long distance runners eat raw meat, run naked and sleep in the snow

  40. #40
    Senior Member Four Rings paul.karroum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 06 2015
    AZ Member #
    325304
    Location
    New York City

    Very interesting read..Glad I ran across it. Looking forward to the updates.


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    Paul J. Karroum

    Brilliant Red 08 S5 6spd
    NY
    ST Coilovers, LED Interior lights, Extreme Spoiler lip spoiler, Stoptech BBK
    Engineer | Chemist | First Year Med Student

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