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  1. #761
    Active Member Two Rings mediapimp's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about the additional trouble some of you have had after getting the TSB done. All of these recent posts have convinced me to leave well enough alone and not get the TSB done.


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  2. #762
    Veteran Member Four Rings Johnnycash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AudiS4SD View Post
    For the sake of confirmation, this is exactly how my car sounds. The duration of the rattle, startup sequence of noises, etc. As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, I have not done the TSB yet and the noise has been around for about 20k miles. If multiple people are now getting the rattle after the TSB done, Audi has to chime in, right? Right?? Doubt it...

    Doing the TSB gives a high risk of consequential issues in timing, codes, etc. if the dealership is incompetent in conducting the work. But, even if perfectly done, the sound appears to come back within 5-8k miles (from the posts I"ve seen). I want to know what happened to the guy with 100k here his chain skipped (still waiting for details) -- did his EPL tune cause it? What was he doing at the time? Was he just parked idling?

    More reasons NOT to do the TSB. However, the question remains: is there a breaking point in the chain where bad things happens? Can you detect it or will codes appears beforehand?
    I was approaching a stop sign bringing my kid to volleyball practice on a wednesday afternoon. ( I remember the details well;)

    car stalled out on me at the stop sign, tried to restart it 2-3xs it would turn over initially and then die, then nothing. called a tow truck and thought this sucks to have to fix something but never suspected total failure.

    no noises, no codes, and the rattle on startup i had was barely a second or so.

    I do not think the tune had anything at all to do with it, but who knows for sure?
    2011 QGM w/black optics, EPL stg1, HRE p43sc w/pss, b-12pro-kit, 034 trans mount, cts intake, stoptech drilled/slotted, akebonos all around, vmr 710 w/nokian r2s, stock rotor wheels w michelin as3+, autostyle custom floormats, 3m paint protection on entire front.

  3. #763
    Active Member One Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by dowzer View Post
    I had the TSB done by the east end location last year. They had my car for a month, and after that the engine felt sluggish and I have a feeling they messed up a motor mount because the amount of vibration coming from the engine was unbelievable. The vibration has since calmed down but it's still not as smooth as it used to be. Of course the dealer tells me the vibration is normal. And sure enough the noise came back anyway after a few months, so I would have been better off leaving it as-is.
    Wow a month! I have a feeling the techs here just don't have the experience. They probably lost money on your car going way over billable time for this repair, no wonder they are so reluctant now haha

  4. #764
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnycash View Post
    I was approaching a stop sign bringing my kid to volleyball practice on a wednesday afternoon. ( I remember the details well;)

    car stalled out on me at the stop sign, tried to restart it 2-3xs it would turn over initially and then die, then nothing. called a tow truck and thought this sucks to have to fix something but never suspected total failure.

    no noises, no codes, and the rattle on startup i had was barely a second or so.

    I do not think the tune had anything at all to do with it, but who knows for sure?

    I also do not see how a tune could affect the timing chain and/or tensioners but admittedly I don't know a lot of the ins and outs of these engines in general. I posed the question in the EPL owners thread to see if anyone there has an (unbiased) opinion on the affect of ECU tunes in general, not specifically EPL, on the condition of the tensioners.
    2015 Daytona Gray S4
    6MT / Sport Diff / B&O / Tech Pkg / Carbon Atlas / Black Alcantara
    Mods: S5 Rotors, Xpel Ultimate, 3M Color Stable Tint 35%, H&R Street Performance Coilovers, Euro Code Alu Kreuz, Eurocode Sway Bars, Moog Endlinks, CR-15, Eurocode Meisterwerk ASTS, AWE Resonated Touring Exhaust, ECS Luft-Technik Intake, 034 Transmission Mount, HCX LED 3000k Fog Lights, Apikol Rear Diff Mount

  5. #765
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacegrau View Post
    Wow a month! I have a feeling the techs here just don't have the experience. They probably lost money on your car going way over billable time for this repair, no wonder they are so reluctant now haha
    Yeah for sure! Looking at the work order, I saw a couple of different tech IDs at the beginning, followed by a 3rd who is listed beside the bulk of the lines. The SA admitted they were really struggling with it, and that it would have been easier to just drop the engine to do the TSB.

  6. #766
    Senior Member Three Rings 303 Spartan's Avatar
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    Count me in as another person who had the timing chain rattle return, 6 months after getting the TSB done.

    January, 2018 - Original TSB performed
    February, 2018 - additional work performed related to the TSB after I got CELs
    March - April, 2018 - Multiple return visits for constant new CELs related to the TSB
    May - June, 2018 - Car finally back to where it was prior to January, less the rattle

    July, 2018 - One of every 3-4 cold starts, I'm starting to hear the rattle again. It's not as obnoxious as it was before the initial TSB was performed, but it has definitely started to return. Oh, and since getting the TSB, my car is burning through enough oil to go from F to just above E with 5k mile change intervals. Prior to getting the TSB, the car would barely burn any noticeable amount of oil between changes.

    I'm no longer convinced that the "updated" tensioners are any better than the originals. That or the techs who worked on my car installed the previous version tensioners. Regardless, after the headache this TSB was for me for the first 5 months of this year, I'm done worrying about it. At least for now it's much less frequent and much less obnoxious sounding than before.

    If the rattle gets back to the point that it occurs on every cold start and/or gets as loud as it did previously, I'll just trade the car in and move on. That new M2 competition is looking pretty nice....
    '14 Estoril Blue S4 / EPL Stage 2 ECU & TCU
    DSG | ADS | Sport Diff | B&O | Tech Pkg | H&R OE Springs | VMR V710 19x8.5 et35 | 5mm ECS Spacers | PSS 255/35/19

  7. #767
    Veteran Member Four Rings Johnnycash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveYem View Post
    I also do not see how a tune could affect the timing chain and/or tensioners but admittedly I don't know a lot of the ins and outs of these engines in general. I posed the question in the EPL owners thread to see if anyone there has an (unbiased) opinion on the affect of ECU tunes in general, not specifically EPL, on the condition of the tensioners.
    its a known issue, hence the tsb. audi has had issues on other models/variants, its clear they compromise on a critical component. the ecu flashes are safe there are plenty of anecdotes and testimony to that. the car and its internals are otherwise stout.
    2011 QGM w/black optics, EPL stg1, HRE p43sc w/pss, b-12pro-kit, 034 trans mount, cts intake, stoptech drilled/slotted, akebonos all around, vmr 710 w/nokian r2s, stock rotor wheels w michelin as3+, autostyle custom floormats, 3m paint protection on entire front.

  8. #768
    Senior Member Four Rings jygesq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303 Spartan View Post
    Count me in as another person who had the timing chain rattle return, 6 months after getting the TSB done.

    January, 2018 - Original TSB performed
    February, 2018 - additional work performed related to the TSB after I got CELs
    March - April, 2018 - Multiple return visits for constant new CELs related to the TSB
    May - June, 2018 - Car finally back to where it was prior to January, less the rattle

    July, 2018 - One of every 3-4 cold starts, I'm starting to hear the rattle again. It's not as obnoxious as it was before the initial TSB was performed, but it has definitely started to return. Oh, and since getting the TSB, my car is burning through enough oil to go from F to just above E with 5k mile change intervals. Prior to getting the TSB, the car would barely burn any noticeable amount of oil between changes.

    I'm no longer convinced that the "updated" tensioners are any better than the originals. That or the techs who worked on my car installed the previous version tensioners. Regardless, after the headache this TSB was for me for the first 5 months of this year, I'm done worrying about it. At least for now it's much less frequent and much less obnoxious sounding than before.

    If the rattle gets back to the point that it occurs on every cold start and/or gets as loud as it did previously, I'll just trade the car in and move on. That new M2 competition is looking pretty nice....
    do you have a copy of repair order listing revised part? Both tensioners start with 06 see my post # 727 in this chain ( sorry for word play on chain)
    2015 S4, P+, Florett Silver,black /silver nappa leather, S-tronic ,sport diff,B&O ,tech package ,supercharged badges. All season tires ,cargo net, factory dip stick

  9. #769
    Senior Member Four Rings jygesq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveYem View Post
    I had the TSB work done in late 2017 and have been hearing the chain rattle at startup again recently. Here is a video I took this morning when I started up the car on my way to drop it off at the dealer. Hood is open so the sound is very easy to hear. Currently 46700 miles on the car, was probably around 39000 miles when I had the issue addressed the first time:
    https://youtu.be/ugfF0x3U3KI
    the mimi shows oil level is down a bit, do you think that may have something to due with the problem?
    2015 S4, P+, Florett Silver,black /silver nappa leather, S-tronic ,sport diff,B&O ,tech package ,supercharged badges. All season tires ,cargo net, factory dip stick

  10. #770
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by jygesq View Post
    the mimi shows oil level is down a bit, do you think that may have something to due with the problem?
    Good catch haha, I figured someone might notice that. I changed my oil a few weeks ago and I intentionally sneak up on the fill to avoid over-filling, in case all of the oil has not drained down yet by the time I check the dip stick. I go back later and top up the oil level but I havenít had the chance to do it yet. Will do so today though...thanks for the reminder!
    2015 Daytona Gray S4
    6MT / Sport Diff / B&O / Tech Pkg / Carbon Atlas / Black Alcantara
    Mods: S5 Rotors, Xpel Ultimate, 3M Color Stable Tint 35%, H&R Street Performance Coilovers, Euro Code Alu Kreuz, Eurocode Sway Bars, Moog Endlinks, CR-15, Eurocode Meisterwerk ASTS, AWE Resonated Touring Exhaust, ECS Luft-Technik Intake, 034 Transmission Mount, HCX LED 3000k Fog Lights, Apikol Rear Diff Mount

  11. #771
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Update: I took my car to the dealer to have them address the recurring timing chain noise on startup, as well as the cycling / rough / stumbling idle issue that is chronic. The service advisor acknowledged both symptoms but said the car is operating within its normal parameters, so no further action warranted at this time. I told him my concerns of having 3k miles / 3 months remaining on my factory warranty and he mentioned that all of this will be documented as having been reported while still under warranty. When I pick the car up today I will be requesting all of that in writing, because I know it's just not right. In the meantime I'll flash back to the latest EPL Stage 1 tune and see if that doesn't at least take care of the rough idle issue. I'm a bit disappointed, but not surprised. I'll at least be happy to get my car back....the 2018 A4 loaner they gave me, while decently equipped, is underwhelming....but at least it idles smoothly.

    I'm with 303 Spartan on this one.....at this point I'm not going to let it stress me out and will focus on just enjoying the car. I'll keep an ear out for progression of the issue but I'll try not to make it my daily stress. There still isn't any other car I'd rather be in at the moment given 6MT and AWD and the price point. Life would be easier if I could settle on an automatic transmission.
    Last edited by SteveYem; 07-31-2018 at 09:12 AM.
    2015 Daytona Gray S4
    6MT / Sport Diff / B&O / Tech Pkg / Carbon Atlas / Black Alcantara
    Mods: S5 Rotors, Xpel Ultimate, 3M Color Stable Tint 35%, H&R Street Performance Coilovers, Euro Code Alu Kreuz, Eurocode Sway Bars, Moog Endlinks, CR-15, Eurocode Meisterwerk ASTS, AWE Resonated Touring Exhaust, ECS Luft-Technik Intake, 034 Transmission Mount, HCX LED 3000k Fog Lights, Apikol Rear Diff Mount

  12. #772
    Senior Member Four Rings jygesq's Avatar
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    AUDI DEALER response," We can not replicate or car is normal "
    2015 S4, P+, Florett Silver,black /silver nappa leather, S-tronic ,sport diff,B&O ,tech package ,supercharged badges. All season tires ,cargo net, factory dip stick

  13. #773
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by jygesq View Post
    AUDI DEALER response," We can not replicate or car is normal "
    Yep, essentially. It seems very political to me. My guess is that if they went back to Audi Corporate to recoup the repair costs for this second go-round, Audi would tell them it's not covered because they already paid them to do the job ~8 months ago. So, Audi tells them to go pound sand, which they pass on to the customer. I may follow up with this dealer, as well as the other one in my area, before my warranty expires.
    2015 Daytona Gray S4
    6MT / Sport Diff / B&O / Tech Pkg / Carbon Atlas / Black Alcantara
    Mods: S5 Rotors, Xpel Ultimate, 3M Color Stable Tint 35%, H&R Street Performance Coilovers, Euro Code Alu Kreuz, Eurocode Sway Bars, Moog Endlinks, CR-15, Eurocode Meisterwerk ASTS, AWE Resonated Touring Exhaust, ECS Luft-Technik Intake, 034 Transmission Mount, HCX LED 3000k Fog Lights, Apikol Rear Diff Mount

  14. #774
    Senior Member Three Rings Corradobrit's Avatar
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    I would not be happy with their response. The work for the TSB is waranteed for another 12 months/12K miles, even if out of factory warranty. This is not a dealer warranty but AoA. If the problem returns within that time frame or miles you have a legitimate claim. Talk to AoA and see what they say
    2014 S4 Premium Plus, Glacier White Metallic, Black Optics, DSG, sport diff, Nappa, B&O, AWE Touring/Res DP, GIAC ECU/TCU Stage 1, ECS CF rear diffuser, CR15

  15. #775
    Established Member Two Rings
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    I have to say after having the car back for a few days now it sounds and feels one thousand percent better. No rattle on startup, no chain clatter at ~1000rpm, the whole thing feels a hell of a lot tighter and quieter than before by all counts.


    Having the cam chains permanently loose due to the worn tensioners cannot be healthy or safe for the engine long term and Audi knows it. Unfortunately with the stories of it coming back it seems like they've got a fundamentally flawed design that's probably just going to slip by their responsibility as these cars age and they embrace their boring new turbo 6.


    I drive my car hard so I'll be keeping a close ear to the issue if it ever comes back. This is all making me weary to go Stage 1 - I've got CPO for another 2 years.
    2014 Audi S5 DSG - Gray / Alcantara interior / Black Optics / Sport Differential
    SOLD: 2009 BMW 135i M-Sport / Alpine White / Coral Red Interior / 6 Speed Manual

  16. #776
    Senior Member Three Rings 303 Spartan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jygesq View Post
    do you have a copy of repair order listing revised part? Both tensioners start with 06 see my post # 727 in this chain ( sorry for word play on chain)
    Quote Originally Posted by jygesq View Post
    updated chain tensioner 06E1091217AH bank 2 06E109218AJ bank 1 according to TSB
    Just checked my repair order and confirmed that the replacement tensioners match what you have. See pic below...

    '14 Estoril Blue S4 / EPL Stage 2 ECU & TCU
    DSG | ADS | Sport Diff | B&O | Tech Pkg | H&R OE Springs | VMR V710 19x8.5 et35 | 5mm ECS Spacers | PSS 255/35/19

  17. #777
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by fs454 View Post
    I have to say after having the car back for a few days now it sounds and feels one thousand percent better. No rattle on startup, no chain clatter at ~1000rpm, the whole thing feels a hell of a lot tighter and quieter than before by all counts.


    Having the cam chains permanently loose due to the worn tensioners cannot be healthy or safe for the engine long term and Audi knows it. Unfortunately with the stories of it coming back it seems like they've got a fundamentally flawed design that's probably just going to slip by their responsibility as these cars age and they embrace their boring new turbo 6.


    I drive my car hard so I'll be keeping a close ear to the issue if it ever comes back. This is all making me weary to go Stage 1 - I've got CPO for another 2 years.
    Agreed, but although I have a little less than 2 years left on my CPO and don't plan to be going Stage 1 until the CPO expires, it is not due to the chain rattle but rather waiting to get the car paid off and seeing how much my son's education may cost. BTW, consider EPL for your tune. Although I had originally shied away from them because they did not have a website, after spending much time on their Audizine thread, I am convinced they provide a great product at a good price and back it up with great customer service ... and they seem committed to supporting the B8.5 S4 platform.
    2014 Monsoon Gray S4 Prem+ | S-Tronic | LH Magma Nappa leather interior | Carbon Atlas inlays | Sports Diff | Adaptive Damping suspension | 19Ē peelers | MMI Nav | Bang & Olufsen | tints | VAG COM mods via OBDeleven | Autostyle Mats

  18. #778
    Active Member One Ring
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    Just had the TSB done on my stock 15 S4 with 29K . Dealer didn't question it and it was the first one they had done. They had the car for about a week and it is back to normal so far

  19. #779
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Has anyone seen this? Could a spring loaded rubber stopper in the oil filter housing be the actual culprit of this noise?

    pic I am too lazy to host:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bo...MKqcv0e1j9SLhd

  20. #780
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    I recently bought a 2013 s4. Long story, won't bore you guys with the details. I noticed the rattle, did some searching around and come up on this thread.

    I picked my car up on Friday July 6th, order EPL stg 1 the same night. Side note EPL is amazing been emailing Chris back and forth amazing customer service would definitely recommend.

    My tune arrived tuesday, flashed it from my home. My previous car was 13 gli had stg 2 apr with fbo on it.

    The dealership that I bought it from wasn't an audi dealer said there is no CPO warranty on it.

    I noticed the rattle the day after I bought it did not think nothing of it.

    Call aoa to see what I can do if they can offfer any insight on the tsb. The lady i spoke with said that I still have warranty and it expires at the end of July. Made arrangements with my local Audi dealership, tune the car back to stock, and all said and done it was covered under the CPO warennty. Just got my car back last Wednesday.

    Tuned it back to EPL stg1 put 3.5g of e85, topped it off with 93.

    And I am loving my s4.

  21. #781
    Senior Member Three Rings 303 Spartan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sb_gli View Post
    Has anyone seen this? Could a spring loaded rubber stopper in the oil filter housing be the actual culprit of this noise?

    pic I am too lazy to host:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bo...MKqcv0e1j9SLhd
    That's the first Ive heard of this. But the big TSB job is fixing the rattle, so I find it hard to believe it's that simple of a solution. But, who knows anymore...
    '14 Estoril Blue S4 / EPL Stage 2 ECU & TCU
    DSG | ADS | Sport Diff | B&O | Tech Pkg | H&R OE Springs | VMR V710 19x8.5 et35 | 5mm ECS Spacers | PSS 255/35/19

  22. #782
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303 Spartan View Post
    That's the first Ive heard of this. But the big TSB job is fixing the rattle, so I find it hard to believe it's that simple of a solution. But, who knows anymore...
    I don't know the entire TSB part list, but perhaps this rubber stopper is included, which in turn "fixes" the problem (i.e., are they replacing that part anyway as part of the TSB). Since multiple people are now getting the rattle back after 10-15k miles, is it logical to say (and unusual) that the tensioners would already be loose (a second time) after so few miles? If so, where are the reports of people getting rattles on cars with less than 15k miles TOTAL? Lots of the rattle issues have come after 25k miles or so.

    Perhaps a long shot, but it would be great if this is a solution.
    2014 S4 | Glacier White | Premium + | DSG

  23. #783
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by sb_gli View Post
    Has anyone seen this? Could a spring loaded rubber stopper in the oil filter housing be the actual culprit of this noise?

    pic I am too lazy to host:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bo...MKqcv0e1j9SLhd
    I mean, that could explain why the dealer couldnít replicate the rattle in their shop when I brought it in despite it happening multiple times a day for me. They had just done a fresh oil change. Could just be coincidental though. I got them to do the TSB after showing them 5 different videos I took of my car cold starting.

    I canít imagine that this one independent shop cracked the code on such a potential high dollar massive issue for Audi, but it sure would be incredible. Iíll have to check if my oil filter housing was replaced and if any stoppers were on the parts list. Does anyone know the part number for that rubber stopper?
    2014 Audi S5 DSG - Gray / Alcantara interior / Black Optics / Sport Differential
    SOLD: 2009 BMW 135i M-Sport / Alpine White / Coral Red Interior / 6 Speed Manual

  24. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by fs454 View Post
    Does anyone know the part number for that rubber stopper?
    From what the mechanic wrote, "I tore it apart", it sounded like it was part of the oil filter housing.

  25. #785
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    Page 15 shows a diagram of the oil system.

    http://www.vaglinks.com/vaglinks_com...FSI_Engine.pdf

    You would think a spring loaded plug in the oil filter housing would prevent all of the oil passages in the whole engine from draining back into the pan the the engine is off. Maybe because the tensioners are at the highest point of the engine, and they are prone to leaking down first when this passage is not plugged.

  26. #786
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    I personally think this issue is related to oil pressure. After a fresh oil change I am rattle free for a couple months and then it slowly gets louder and louder over time. I tested this recently by adding a half quart of oil ( been about 3 months since last oil change)after the sound came back, and it did help quiet the rattle. Added another half quart the next day and it went away.

    Iím going to try Motul for my next oil change and see if a better oil helps prevent the sound from returning.

    I do plan on returning to the dealership to have them look at this rattle again, but I donít want to lose my car for another month during the summer driving months.

    Will update after my dealer visit.

  27. #787
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    My 15 has the rattle too. Has there been any update to the TSB from the very first post of this thread. I want to make sure i am going to my dealer with the most updated copy l

  28. #788
    Senior Member Four Rings jygesq's Avatar
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    Dealer has the revised TSB, it was extended to 2015 model year, rattle for one to three seconds on initial start up .first version required more than three seconds of noise. Suggest you read that noise has returned aftervvTSB was done of several posters cars.In addition the TSB completion had not been wiith out many complications. There might be a new train of thought it might be caused by a check valve in the oil filter housing. Stay tuned for the next chapter in this saga
    2015 S4, P+, Florett Silver,black /silver nappa leather, S-tronic ,sport diff,B&O ,tech package ,supercharged badges. All season tires ,cargo net, factory dip stick

  29. #789
    Active Member Two Rings
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    The noise makes way more sense with that oil circuit! I've noticed if parked level the noise is pretty random, downhill it is guaranteed after just a few hours, and then parked uphill it never seems to occur.

    I also agree that the noise goes away for a while after an oil change.



    The oil filter housing with the check valve is PN 06E-115-405-K. I did not see anyone's repair sheet listing this part.

    However, it sounds and looks like there are several other valves in the oil circuit....so this leak could be anywhere in those too?. Would Audi really not have thought to try replacing those before trying to redesign/replace the tensioners?

  30. #790
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    Location
    Nj

    14 s4 with this issue. I agree that its highly dependent on the ground incline. It will not do it if car is parked slightly uphill, will def do it parked downhill, and 50% chance to do it parked level. Stranglely my car also developed a noise which seems to be coming from the oil filter housing when at full operating temp. Its a clicking noise almost like a solenoid or actuator, best way to describe is it sounds like a spark plug firing. Goes away with any application of throttle. I really want to get this issue sorted before going stage2 and beyond. Anyone have any experience with Bell audi in nj doing the tsb and how was the experience?

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Audizine mobile app

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