15 Engine rattling noises at cold start - V6 3.0 TFSI

[UberBrute]

A few months ago my car started making a rattle for 2-3 seconds on cold starts (usually in the morning). I looked around and didn't find much in terms of tsb's or anything really. Earlier today "Race Shooter" posted a link to a website that will show you tsb's. I checked there and found one for engine rattle on cold start. Here is a link to the post from "Race Shooter".

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post10900711

and here is a link to what it sounds like, not my video but same issue and found through another audi forum during my searching, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS8k3Saet7Q

Long story short, the upper chain tensioners need to be replaced with a newer design. This TSB is new as of March 2015. It states in the tsb that no damage can happen, but who knows given audi's track record with cam chain tensioners..

Any have this done yet?

















Technical Service Bulletin
15 Engine rattling noises at cold start - V6 3.0 TFSI
15 15 26 2039995/1 March 3, 2015.
Model(s) Year VIN Range Vehicle-Specific Equipment
All 2011 - 2014 All V6 3.0 TFSI

Condition
Rattling noises are heard from the timing chain drive for about 1-3 seconds after the first engine start of theday.

Technical Background
The noises are caused by one of the upper chain tensioners. The noises do not lead to damage.

Production Solution
Improved chain tensioner.

Service
1. Verify condition by observing engine sound during cold start.
2. If the rattling noise comes from the area of the timing chains (back of the engine) for 1-3 seconds after the first start of the day, replace both upper chain tensioners of bank 1 and bank 2 with the optimized chain tensioners.

Technical Service Bulletin Warranty
Claim Type: Use applicable claim type. If vehicle is outside any warranty, this Technical Service Bulletin is informational only.

Service Number: 1536

Damage Code: 0010

Labor Operations: Chain tensioner remove+reinstall (See Elsa for SRT specific to model) 1536 20XX XX TU

Diagnostic Time: GFF No allowance 0 TU

Road test prior to service procedure 0121 0002 10 TU

Road test after service procedure 0121 0004 10 TU

Technical diagnosis at dealer’s discretion
(Refer to Section 2.2.1.2 and Audi Warranty Online for DADP allowance details)

Claim Comment: As per TSB #2039995/1
All warranty claims submitted for payment must be in accordance with the Audi Warranty Policies and Procedures Manual. Claims are subject to review or audit by Audi Warranty.

Required Parts and Tools

Part Number Part Description Quantity
06E109217AH Chain tensioner bank 2 1
06E109218AJ Chain tensioner bank 1 1

Additional Information
All parts and service references provided in this TSB (2039995) are subject to change and/or removal. Always check with your Parts Department and service manuals for the latest information.

[cchase231]

looking for more info on this as my car has been doing this more frequently as of late. Has anyone had to do this? Is there really no concern about damage? The noise is embarrassing and definitely doesn't sound harmless.

[cjw]

I have it. Seems very common. I have a little bit of concern and I'm curious how receptive dealers have been to fixing this.

I also wonder if the other 3.0T powered vehicles have the same issue.

[cchase231]

how often is happening for you? When did it start? I am not finding a whole lot of experiences with this issue on the web.

[levigarrett]

My 14 has been doing that for some time. Only on cold starts. The car behaves normally otherwise but I makes the exact same sound. I never thought much of it. 34000 miles.

[Burmonster]

I think have it a little bit. Almost like a vibration that lasts ~1 sec on cold start first thing in the morning. It does not seem to be as pronounced on the afternoon start when getting ready to leave work.

I was just planning on having the dealer look at it during my 45k oil change. Will provide them with the TSB for reference.

[QuattroRocket]

I did it, its a BIG job and they will only do it after keeping the car for a night to verify the symptoms as a result of the labor required.

[dyl0n]

I've had it done. Took them a few days (parts and stuff) but I had a loaner. I could not believe how quiet the car was actually supposed to be when it started. Even when the rattle didn't happen, it was still louder than it is now on starts.

I definitely recommend getting it done.

[Burmonster]

I did it, its a BIG job and they will only do it after keeping the car for a night to verify the symptoms as a result of the labor required.

It's not an engine out repair, correct?

[AudiTFSI3o3]

'14 here, definitely started about a month ago. from the TSB it's only audible and no damage correct? so even if the upper tensioners aren't replaced it won't affect anything?

[cchase231]

'14 here, definitely started about a month ago. from the TSB it's only audible and no damage correct? so even if the upper tensioners aren't replaced it won't affect anything?

This is what I would really like to know. My car is out of warranty and I'm looking at close to 3k to do it. The indy and dealer said it the noise is cause for concern, but this tsb says otherwise. The all of sudden increased frequency that it has been happening for me has me a little concerned.

[Dubious]

My car has done this since I have owned it starting at 11,000 miles.
Now I have to weigh the risk/benefit of them breaking my car while applyig this fix.

[AudiTFSI3o3]

This is what I would really like to know. My car is out of warranty and I'm looking at close to 3k to do it. The indy and dealer said it the noise is cause for concern, but this tsb says otherwise. The all of sudden increased frequency that it has been happening for me has me a little concerned.

TSB's and recalls can be performed outside warranty so shouldn't be a problem going to Audi either way.

speaking of which, just broke 40k on my '14 lol

[cchase231]

TSB's and recalls can be performed outside warranty so shouldn't be a problem going to Audi either way.

speaking of which, just broke 40k on my '14 lol

I don't think TSBs are covered out of warranty. If you look at the TSB it says outside of warranty it's for informational purposes only. From what I gather after a few conversations a TSB is not an admission that there is a flaw in operation, just a guide for the tech. A recall on the other hand is always covered since they are admitting something is faulty.

[dyl0n]

I don't think TSBs are covered out of warranty. If you look at the TSB it says outside of warranty it's for informational purposes only. From what I gather after a few conversations a TSB is not an admission that there is a flaw in operation, just a guide for the tech. A recall on the other hand is always covered since they are admitting something is faulty.

Correct. Try to get all the TSBs done you can under warranty. This was a $1800 job if not under warranty.

[cjw]

Part of the reason I haven't done this is the TSB says it's not damaging, and I don't want to drop the car off for a few days and/or have the dealer say they couldn't replicate or find a way to void my warranty anyways.

[JWreck]

Dealer has my car for a transmission replacement; I'm asking them to look into this as I have the same annoying noise.

[S4'ed]

And I thought the 2.0T (EA888 Gen-1 and Gen-2) was a timebomb with its timing chain tensioner issues......now I have to worry about my S4 and the wife's 2.0T VW CC.......I just bought the tensioner update kit for that last week.....what's with VAG and bad tensioner designs ????????

[cchase231]

Part of the reason I haven't done this is the TSB says it's not damaging, and I don't want to drop the car off for a few days and/or have the dealer say they couldn't replicate or find a way to void my warranty anyways.

Based on my recent experience that is exactly what they will do.

[Burmonster]

And I thought the 2.0T (EA888 Gen-1 and Gen-2) was a timebomb with its timing chain tensioner issues......now I have to worry about my S4 and the wife's 2.0T VW CC.......I just bought the tensioner update kit for that last week.....what's with VAG and bad tensioner designs ????????

"timebomb" is a bit strongly worded. Most cars have a bit of chain rattle on cold starts.

[Trent212]

I wondered about the little bit of rattle on cold start. Guess I can get it looked at.

[cchase231]

Correct. Try to get all the TSBs done you can under warranty. This was a $1800 job if not under warranty.

Just got a quote from a dealer, $3200 with possible overages. Both the dealer and the indy said it should be addressed, but the tsb states no damage is done? Not sure what to think here.

[dyl0n]

They did say on the A7 they had to pull the motor out to fix it. However on my S5 they said they did not have to.

[LINDW4LL]

And I thought the 2.0T (EA888 Gen-1 and Gen-2) was a timebomb with its timing chain tensioner issues......now I have to worry about my S4 and the wife's 2.0T VW CC.......I just bought the tensioner update kit for that last week.....what's with VAG and bad tensioner designs ????????

There are over 100,000 3.0Ts running around. I get there was a TSB for it, but it is not a common issue by any means.

[levigarrett]

I have it. Seems very common. I have a little bit of concern and I'm curious how receptive dealers have been to fixing this.

I also wonder if the other 3.0T powered vehicles have the same issue.

I took my car in for the 35k service yesterday. I am confident my car makes that noise on occasion. I mentioned it to my SA. He was receptive to looking at it and put it in the notes but mentioned that he believes the noise is somewhat normal. He said they'd look into it but I didn't get the impression that it would be taken very seriously. Well this morning he called to say that they agreed and would be replacing the tensioner. He also mentioned that its a big job and would take a couple days to finish. I'm leaving town for work for the next 5 days there's no real issue for me. I'll update this thread when I return but I'd suggest you mention this to your SA and have it looked at.

When my cars are under warranty, I don't let anything slide. If theres a noise or I have a complaint, I put it in writing.

[wangshuo1989]

My car definitely made the same noise. I mentioned it to my SA at 45K service, they verified and fixed it, tensioners as well as camshaft sensor. It took a few days mainly due to waiting for parts arrival. And it didn't have to pull the engine out. Car now starts with 0 noise, and runs smoother as well. If you are under warranty definitely get it fixed ASAP.

[DGVR6]

Used to have the same problem back with the old 3.6 VRs on start up due to oil starvation.

Sooner or later that tensioner will just grenade. I wonder what's the difference between the revised tensioner and the superseded one

[brianc21]

Bringing mine in for this next week. I suppose will also be testing TD1 since I'm pretty sure they will hook it up to the machine.

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[AudiTFSI3o3]

welp, dropped the car off Wednesday morning to diagnose some fueling issues as well as the TSB for the tensioner rattling. They gave the car back to me this morning saying "it's normal." Lazy much?

[wangshuo1989]

welp, dropped the car off Wednesday morning to diagnose some fueling issues as well as the TSB for the tensioner rattling. They gave the car back to me this morning saying "it's normal." Lazy much?

That is BS, find another dealer

[VeNoMS4]

Agreed. I could not replicate this noise when i was at the dealership and this noise only started after i did my 55k mile service at the dealership. Finally i found a video that i can show and will see what my dealership says.

[levigarrett]

Update,

My car is going back to the dealer for a CEL. Long story short...they replaced the tensioner and fuked the car up. They kept it for a week because of CEL. Tonight, I got another CEL with less than 30 miles on the odometer since I picket it up. This repair is a big one and I think my dealership was frankly caught off guard by it. The original repair took almost a week and then during the test drive the CEL happened. After an additional 4 days to clear up the CEL I was told the car was ready. Tonight I got the CEL again. I'll take it in Monday and leave it.

If I could do this over again, I'd live with the rattle. Now that I'm going down this path and still under warranty I'm going to be very far up my dealerships ass until they get this right.

[A4Ultrasport]

When you say cold start, do you mean only in a cold environment? Just curious if folks are seeing this in warmer climates as well, such as starting your car first thing in the morning in California or Florida?

[VeNoMS4]

When you say cold start, do you mean only in a cold environment? Just curious if folks are seeing this in warmer climates as well, such as starting your car first thing in the morning in California or Florida?

I'm in Arizona and I get this.. Although a lot less now that it's really hot here but I still get it here and there. Contacted dealership

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[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

is this a pretty serious surgery we are talking about? Things seem like theyre never the same after an audi mechanic works on my car; i can't imagine with a serious operation but maybe i'm just feeling the glass half empty this morning.

It's an engine out of the car sort of thing I believe. It's too tight to get to the back of the engine where the timing chain is with it so close to the firewall and they need to take the trans off anyway.

[LINDW4LL]

I don't think that's the case for the upper guides/tensioners described in this TSB.

Several people have commented that their engine didn't need to come out.

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[Oloung1]

When you say cold start, do you mean only in a cold environment? Just curious if folks are seeing this in warmer climates as well, such as starting your car first thing in the morning in California or Florida?

i doubt its cold weather related, mine does this on the first start every time in florida.

[trevor51590]

Definitely have this in my car. It's after the pressure in the engine has normalized following engine shutdown (not sure exactly, haven't timed it yet). I have this with mine as well, going to ask the dealer about it along with some other TSBs.


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[KnewJack]

This sound like the hydraulic tensioners just need time to pump up and provide proper timing chain tension on cold starts. Like hydraulic lifters in the valve train. Car sits, lifters deflate then takes 2-3 second on cold start for them to pump up and do their thing. Should be pretty harmless unless it does for any extended period of time, just annoying. They need a better lifter design. On my motorcycles I used to install manual tensioners for this issue. For the guy getting check engine lights, the tech probably messed up cam timing trying to fix the tensioner. All that time he was probably trying to get it right, taking it apart, putting it back together seeing its still off a tooth, rinse and repeat. This is precisely why I do all my own work. Pull the code yourself and see what it is. My bet is a P0011 or some variation of it.

[Vdubz]

I get this in mine as well. '14 with 24k on it. Bought it a few moths ago. Still has warranty and Audi care. Brought it in to stealership for the rattle and bc of vibration in slow speed turns. I was told the vibration was normal and all Quattro systems do that. The noise from the engine was said to be normal and he had an S5 that had 15k on it and it did the same thing. His was sitting since he drove it in and sat for the day. He started it and claimed all the 3.0T's do that. I hate when they. Low smoke up the customers ass. The link for the tsb brings me to a site to search for tsb's and I don't see that one come up. Does anyone have a direct link? I traded in a trailblazer ss because of a similar noise and it drove me crazy. That was piston slap and it lasted slightly longer Than this but it is a little embarrassing to hear.


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