Increasing the efficiency of a SMIC

[old guy]

I am currently running a TyrolSport SMIC. It's a well constructed intercooler and is actually quite large. The core is 324 in³ and if you include the mass of the end caps it's 360 in³. Unfortunately the location really doesn't take full advantage of its size. Right now I have the front bumper off for a respray and while the bumper is off I decided to see what I could do to increase the flow through the intercooler. For starters I modified the grille opening by using a Dremel to open up the area to the right of the fog light.



Then I did the same thing to the lower vent on the front bumper.



Next I'm going to add vents to the wheel well liner and see if I can also modify the OEM molded duct work to open up more of the intercooler face.

I have been closely monitoring the recovery rate of the intercooler so I should be able to tell if it makes a difference. I would think the modifications if effective would also help the efficiency of the stock SMIC.

Bumper gets sprayed tomorrow as soon as the temperature gets above 60°. I will be sure to post up the improvements (if any) so stay tuned....

[UofU_USP]

are you shooting the bumper yourself at home? mine needs a respray as well, but I am worried about the color matching. Alos how do you like the TyrolSport SMIC? Ive been thinking about swapping my stock one out eventually

[old guy]

Spraying the bumper in my garage. The TyrolSport SMIC is a nice piece but it ain't cheap and does require a few small modifications to install. It will easily handle a big injector file or a K04.

[icutrauma1]

I'll be watching & learning, going to put DSMIC in mine with a KO4.

[Pr1ce]

OG,

I just looked up that particular smic and wondering why go with it? The site lists it as 800$... For a smic that relative to stock why spend that much compared to a fmic.... Advantages/disadvantages of this? Just curious especially since you upgraded why not go fmic....


Thanks

[diagnosticator]

Compared to the DSMIC/SSMIC, the FMICs are difficult to fit, and reduce the cooling air flow to the radiator. Audi has never used a FMIC OE AFAIK. (Acronyms anyone?)

A boost controlled water spray onto the iC core is an effective way to increase the capacity of the SMIC. I have a kit to control a water spray setup that I have never used. The spray controller uses boost pressure interval duration, and IC core temp to vary the spray turn on and spray duration time. Another method involves increasing the cooling air flow pressure differential across the IC by creating a larger discharge flow path from the IC venting at a lower pressure location. This is what vents in the wheel well liner are supposed to do. An electric pull-through fan controlled by either the boost profile, or IC core temp helps a lot as well. The same control method used for the water spray, works with the cooling fan also. The water spray and the cooling fan methods are effective and don't require the forward motion of the car to cool the IC.

[old guy]

OG,

I just looked up that particular smic and wondering why go with it? The site lists it as 800$... For a smic that relative to stock why spend that much compared to a fmic.... Advantages/disadvantages of this? Just curious especially since you upgraded why not go fmic....


Thanks

I picked it up used for a really good price. Also the mass of the TyrolSport is actually more then a lot of the inexpensive FMIC's out there.

[diagnosticator]

I picked it up used for a really good price. Also the mass of the TyrolSport is actually more then a lot of the inexpensive FMIC's out there.

Yeah, the mass of the IC core is the key aspect of the heat sinking function of ICs operating with intermittent boost intervals occurring with street driving.

[gmudan]

Compared to the DSMIC/SSMIC, the FMICs are difficult to fit, and reduce the cooling air flow to the radiator. Audi has never used a FMIC OE AFAIK. (Acronyms anyone?)

A boost controlled water spray onto the iC core is an effective way to increase the capacity of the SMIC. I have a kit to control a water spray setup that I have never used. The spray controller uses boost pressure interval duration, and IC core temp to vary the spray turn on and spray duration time. Another method involves increasing the cooling air flow pressure differential across the IC by creating a larger discharge flow path from the IC venting at a lower pressure location. This is what vents in the wheel well liner are supposed to do. An electric pull-through fan controlled by either the boost profile, or IC core temp helps a lot as well. The same control method used for the water spray, works with the cooling fan also. The water spray and the cooling fan methods are effective and don't require the forward motion of the car to cool the IC.

I think the b8 has a fmic, no? I think I saw one in there on my brothers.

[diagnosticator]

I think the b8 has a fmic, no? I think I saw one in there on my brothers.

I don't know about the B8. Every turbocharged Audi historically, has been DSMICs or a SSMIC. Retrofitting a FMIC is practically always a hack job, and blocks the engine radiator more or less.

[icutrauma1]

What if you installed a larger SMIC on the driver's side and the factory OE SMIC on the passenger side. Would that be too much mass for an environment like south Florida where temps rarely enter the 60s.

[A4SoftWalker]

What if you installed a larger SMIC on the driver's side and the factory OE SMIC on the passenger side. Would that be too much mass for an environment like south Florida where temps rarely enter the 60s.

I've done that. It works good but u need an intercooler designed to fit the passenger side and the hose to route to it. Better than OEM DSMIC. At some point if you are boosting over 10 psi the OEM ic will pop it's plastic end tank.

[Pr1ce]

Too much in here to quote to reply but I see what you're saying. Also being in Florida as icutrauma I have similar questions... So what you're saying diagnosticator is that a smic because it doesn't inpeed radiator air and stays in the stock locations it's "better than the evolution raceworks or racetec(I just bought) fmic. To fit my fmic I just had to remove my fog lights....

Just kind of wondering the thought behind this.... So the radiator air that is "blocked" is greater than the advantage therefore makes the Tyrol smic better?

[CardFan]

I picked it up used for a really good price. Also the mass of the TyrolSport is actually more then a lot of the inexpensive FMIC's out there.

What are your thoughts on the Apikol SMIC? Looks like its $350 cheaper, but is it worth it? Much larger core for the TyrolSport, correct? That new price for the TyrolSport is hard to stomach lol. Looking forward to seeing your results.

[old guy]

The Apikol is a well made piece but compared to the TyrolSport it has a lot less mass at 227 in³ versus 324 in³ (360 in³ including the end caps) for the TyrolSport. The Apikol would certainly be a big improvement over the OEM SMIC which is only 163 in³.

[old guy]

A quick update. My bumper is back on from the respray. Isn't she purdy??



After I put the bumper back on I went for a drive with the grille vent and bumper modifications. I didn't log anything but I could tell right away that the IAT's were running about 5°f hotter than usual. What the hell?? After thinking about it I realized that I hadn't put the belly pan back on yet so I speculated that it may have changed the flow somewhat and caused the higher than expected temperatures.

I have ordered a TT225 drivers side vented wheel well liner so I can cut out the vents and graft them onto my current liner. But being the impatient guy that I am I went ahead with a little Home Depot mod with some parts I had in the garage. Once the TT liner comes in I will enlarge the opening for the TT vents.



I went out for another drive with the belly pan and Home Depot Racing mod and once again monitored the IAT's. From a quick romp the mods appear to be somewhat effective. The IAT's are now about 5°f lower than I would typically expect to see. So far this is all "seat of the pants" stuff. I plan to do some serious logging as soon as I get my drivers side axle replacement and TT vents installed. I will update this thread as soon as I have some hard data to review.

[Mad Cow]

I did something similar to my b5 and with pretty much the same results. No hard data but I could feel the power difference on hot days, especially when I wasn't running an IC shroud.

[Kevin C]

OG,

Have you considered adding a temp sensor and a small electric fan? For that matter, it could even be activated once you hit a certain boost pressure and kept on for a short interval after with a timer. All the other heat exchangers have fans; why not the side mount intercoolers?

[old guy]

OG,

Have you considered adding a temp sensor and a small electric fan? For that matter, it could even be activated once you hit a certain boost pressure and kept on for a short interval after with a timer. All the other heat exchangers have fans; why not the side mount intercoolers?

I rarely drive in stop and go traffic. Most of my driving is on byways or the Interstate so I don't spend much time on the road where I don't have at least a little bit of flow through the intercooler. Consequently the benefit of an electric fan would be mitigated.

[forevraudi]

This is an interesting topic. I wonder why the engineers wouldn't have made these grille/bumper cutouts in the first place?

I think having an electric fan would actually hurt airflow while car is at speed due to turbulence and blockage. Fan would have to be moving air faster than the natural air would be flowing in

[old guy]

This is an interesting topic. I wonder why the engineers wouldn't have made these grille/bumper cutouts in the first place?

I think having an electric fan would actually hurt airflow while car is at speed due to turbulence and blockage. Fan would have to be moving air faster than the natural air would be flowing in

Good question. The B5 S4 came with dual intercoolers with both sides vented. So did the TT-225. Curious as to why the A4 doesn't have a vented liner. The windshield washer reservoir partially blocks the intercooler for a straight through flow but there is still a section that is approximately 4" x 9" that is open. That's where I plan to add the TT vents.

[B6a418t]

I noticed my buddies B7 A4 has dual side mounts. I wonder if anyone has retrofitted to the B6 with any success.

[B6a418t]

I noticed my buddies B7 A4 has dual side mounts. I wonder if anyone has retrofitted to the B6 with any success.

Took my own advice and searched. Doesn't look like there is much that will work from the B7

[Rogue A4]

Took my own advice and searched. Doesn't look like there is much that will work from the B7

This was in the classifies awhile back, clicky click

[diagnosticator]

Too much in here to quote to reply but I see what you're saying. Also being in Florida as icutrauma I have similar questions... So what you're saying diagnosticator is that a smic because it doesn't inpeed radiator air and stays in the stock locations it's "better than the evolution raceworks or racetec(I just bought) fmic. To fit my fmic I just had to remove my fog lights....

Just kind of wondering the thought behind this.... So the radiator air that is "blocked" is greater than the advantage therefore makes the Tyrol smic better?

Blocking the air flow to the radiator has implications compromising the cooling capacity of the radiator. Audi uses side mount intercoolers for good reason, it is not an arbitrary choice.

Depending on the size of the fmic, more or less hacking is required to fit. Larger cores require a lot of chopping to get installed. The more recent FMICs are size optimized to reduce the cutting needed to fit.

[icutrauma1]

I purchased the B7 oem DSMIC setup with venting from Twenty and plan to adapt it to my B6, adding a larger SMIC to the driver side as there are more chances I can get a used one for that side for a K04 tune. I don't track.

[LINDW4LL]

B5 A4s only have ONE side mount intercooler?

Compared to the DSMIC/SSMIC, the FMICs are difficult to fit, and reduce the cooling air flow to the radiator. Audi has never used a FMIC OE AFAIK. (Acronyms anyone?)

B8 A4, mk2 TT, old A3, TTS 2.0T, TT RS, RS3, new A3/S3, and the newer TDIs all have OEM FMIC.

[icutrauma1]

FMJKMN. Front Mount Just Kill Me Now
Respectfully to the FMIC I just didn't want to cut into my bumpers and I realize there are pros and cons to everything. I myself almost went with EW Black FMIC this past year's black Monday.

[Seerlah]

I used to run a side mounted intercooler (boost factory). What i did was cut off the outlet, welded on a 2.5" outlet, then made a custom 2.5" aluminum throttle inlet with iat sensor bung for my in cabin gauge to the ~2.5" throttle body. For better flow, I did the diy rs4 lower grill mesh. I have a b5, so I then used a b5 s4 vented fender liner.

If you want to mod your fender liner, the vent slits on the b5 s4 are slanted downwards to keep stuff kicked by the tires inside the wheel well. So, I suggest you go a similar route in your design.

[A4SoftWalker]

B5 A4s only have ONE side mount intercooler?


B8 A4, mk2 TT, old A3, TTS 2.0T, TT RS, RS3, new A3/S3, and the newer TDIs all have OEM FMIC.

Yeah I was gonna mention that as well same thing with the VW turbo products FMIC. I actually have logs from 6 years ago with FMIC and water temps. SURPRISE surprise radiator temp difference is negligible with the ER racing max size FMIC. AC worked fine. On the dyno my hp/tq curve was smoother due to less resistance compared to DSMIC and a shorter intake path.

The problem is all of the turns the air path takes to go under the radiator. 2x 90deg turns are not the best set up for flow.

I did a lot of research as I was planning to set up a business in this area but then "shovel ready jobs" forced me to dial back my aspirations.

I came to the conclusion the current well-designed FMIC that allows fog lights to fit are more acceptable and cost effective for performance than current DSMIC setups.

AND yes I did logging with huge fender liner vents in BOTH left and right fenders.

[old guy]

So just for the hell of it I decided to blow some air through the grille opening to see if any exhausted through the wheel well vent. I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of air that came out. I realize that this is totally unscientific and could change completely under road conditions but at least it appears on the surface to be beneficial. I drove about 50 miles on the Interstate this morning and my impressions are still good.



And what do you think about the color match? I'm pleased.

[UofU_USP]

Ive heard silver is hard to match, and so is red. It looks great in the pics. Especially for what all was used and I'm assuming you aren't a painter. Im going to have to try this out sometime, I want a new ultra sport lower and what better piece to try it out on?

[CardFan]

Looks like the color matches well from the pic.

[evo_ski]

What paint did you use.

Very interesting stuff on the intercooler. Nicely done!

[old guy]

What paint did you use.

Very interesting stuff on the intercooler. Nicely done!

I used Akzo Nobel color matched paint mixed ready to spray and Transtar Quick Gloss Acrylic Urethane catalyzed topcoat. The key is the topcoat. It flows really well and sets up fast which is critical when you are spraying outside without a spray booth.

[diagnosticator]

B5 A4s only have ONE side mount intercooler?


B8 A4, mk2 TT, old A3, TTS 2.0T, TT RS, RS3, new A3/S3, and the newer TDIs all have OEM FMIC.

I have to backtrack and say that my comment was from the historical aspect. I did not consider newer than 2004 models. Also, it is relevant to note that the FMICs used OE, are not very high, and don't block the radiator like aftermarket FMICs do.

[diagnosticator]

This is an interesting topic. I wonder why the engineers wouldn't have made these grille/bumper cutouts in the first place?

I think having an electric fan would actually hurt airflow while car is at speed due to turbulence and blockage. Fan would have to be moving air faster than the natural air would be flowing in

A correctly sized pull through fan should not be running at highway speeds. The fan with ducting incorporating rubber bypass flaps reduces to nil the effect of the fan on the free air flow through the IC at road speed. The most important benefit of a pull through cooling fan, is at lower road speeds, where forward motion is insufficient to adequately cool the IC after boosted intervals preventing heat soak, maintaining the heat sinking capacity of the IC core.

[diagnosticator]

The best setup is a water cooled IC, side mounted, with a remote radiator including a dedicated pull through cooling fan, located behind the lower grill, forward of the A/C evaporator/radiator using a cooling water circulating pump. The size of the remote IC cooling radiator is small enough to be mounted easily, without blocking the evaporator and radiator enough to effect engine cooling.
Since the IC on our cars functions mainly as a heat sink absorbing heat from the hot charge air from the turbo compressor, a water cooled IC has many times the heat absorption capacity compared to the mass of an air cooled IC. Water has the unique property of being able to absorb the most heat before the bulk temperature of the cooling water starts to increase. A water cooled IC with plenty of cooling capacity can be very efficient and compact size.

[old guy]

A Few Updates: After driving around for 5 days and watching the IAT's I am seeing about a 4°F drop when steady state driving. When I first start the engine and drive until everything is up to temperature the IAT's will typically be around 6°→8°F above the ambient temperature. Once I stop a few times in traffic and things start to heat soak a little the IAT's will climb to 14°→15°F above ambient and remain pretty steady. Previous to the minor airflow mods the IAT's would stabilize around 18°→19°F above ambient. I am getting the ambient temperature from the display and the IAT's using Torque Pro.

Today I did some data logging. According to the display the ambient was 89°F. I logged the IAT's using the Motoza data logger. Unfortunately I had a few issues with my Bluetooth adapter when switching between the Torque Pro and Motoza logger and consequently I was sitting at idle on the side of the road for at least 5 minutes trying to get everything to connect. This heat soaked the intercooler by about 10°F more than I typically see. I did a 2nd gear pull from 2500→6300 RPM followed immediately by a 3rd gear pull from 4400→5800 RPM. On to the results:

In 2nd gear the IAT started at 114°F. By mid pull the IAT dropped to 111°F. At 6300 the IAT had returned to 114°F. The TyrolSport intercooler essentially held the IAT's steady.

The 3rd gear pull obviously started at 114°F. The IAT's continued to climb through the pull and maxed out at 129°F at 5800 PM for a total gain 15°F.

The Good: A 15°F gain in IAT's through a 2nd and 3rd gear pull in 89°F ambient temperatures is way beyond the capability of an OEM intercooler.

The Bad: When you are sitting still the SMIC doesn't have any airflow and consequently is probably more susceptible to heat soak than a FMIC.

For comparison here is some info on an Apikol SMIC versus the OEM SMIC. The tests were performed with the APR 1+ tuning on a B6 1.8T. There is no information on the ambient temperature for the comparison but the OEM IAT's went from 130°F→190°F whereas the Apikol went from 97°→170°F. Clicky click®

Bottom line: For my driving needs I am happy with the performance of the TyrolSport SMIC.

[my1stturbo]

Thanks for the update old guy. Have been debating the Tyrolsport vs Apikol (the newer/bigger style one they made) for a while. Glad to hear the upgraded smic is doing the trick as I hope to go with the FT this summer.