Finally Doing Timing with 164k on the Clock!

[rsrider]

Hey guys - great informative thread. Have been reading with interest!

I am currently having this job done on my own vehicle. Mechanic and I are undecided on whether we need to replace the mechanical adjusters. I have attached photos of my current ones. The left hand side is Cylinder 1-4 and right and side 5-8. Note that I was getting misfire codes for cylinder 1-4, but had no cam related codes at all. These are not a cheap part for me, especially after converting to my currency and including import fees and freight charges.

Does anyone have a good 2nd hand pair of these they are willing to sell and ship to NZ?




Thanks in advance!

Rory

[SlickFix]

^^ The one on the left definitely needs to be replaced, while the one on the right doesn't look too bad.

[SlickFix]

Be sure to follow the Audi filling procedures when doing this. Pretty much you turn the car on and keep adding fluid. You'll know its full when the trans fluid temp is around 55˚C (VCDS required) and fluid keeps coming out of the drain plug.

You will need a hand pump.

Just wanted to correct some misinformation in this quote. The proper way to fill this is to fill it full until some fluid leaks out of the fill hole while the engine is cold. Then start the car up, and move through each gear, holding it there for 10 seconds. When the tip fluid reaches between 36-40C, remove the fill plug and top off the fluid until it trickles out the fill hole. Replace fill hole and then shut off engine.

If you wait until the fluid level is up to 55C, you will end up underfilling the transmission.

[FormulaElement]

Just wanted to correct some misinformation in this quote. The proper way to fill this is to fill it full until some fluid leaks out of the fill hole while the engine is cold. Then start the car up, and move through each gear, holding it there for 10 seconds. When the tip fluid reaches between 36-40C, remove the fill plug and top off the fluid until it trickles out the fill hole. Replace fill hole and then shut off engine.

If you wait until the fluid level is up to 55C, you will end up underfilling the transmission.

This is correct, not sure where i got 55.

Here is how the manufacturer says to fill it. Link Pages 3 and 4.

[BCsniper]

Does anyone have a good 2nd hand pair of these they are willing to sell and ship to NZ?

I would imagine that would be a cheap alternative if you didn't want to spring for the JHM ones. Plenty of people like me probably have a set that look damn near new.

These are the ones in my garage right now. PM me if you want them

[badger.]

How do you like the piggies so far?

Sounds just a bit more aggressive but not overly so. I'm not one for huge noise, I am ok with a "subtle rumble". Revs faster 1-3k or so. Throttle is a bit more responsive it seems. Or maybe I just am having fun driving the car again.

Cost me $20 to have the rear O2 bungs relocated at the exhaust shop and plugs in the old ones. (I don't have a welder). No CEL yet! (I am not tuned).
Cost me $15 for a 1/2" wood auger bit, which when coupled with a pry-bar I had both pre-cats gutted in probably 15-20 minutes. Worked like a dream and was a piece o' cake. Plus now I have a new drill bit :)

[badger.]

Haha I never did it and I have about 10k on it with no rattle.
JHM you should include some instructions where those gaskets go because I even made a post to this forum and no one had a clue at the time.

I have not had any rattle on any starts yet either. Doesn't seem to be very important in my limited run time. That said I would still replace it if I had it all apart for better peace of mind. It's still just a bit mentally unsettling knowing it's not 100% how it is supposed to be. Funny how a dime sized o-ring can cause so much stress

But I'm sure I will care less and less and I drive more with hopefully no issues from it.

[S4orgy]

best offer

[badger.]

Still no issues that I can tell while lacking that little o-ring. I briefly mentioned it to Jake and he said "That O-ring I believe you re-use the original one." So not sure what they actually do but it appears they just re-use it? I don't know.

Does anyone know the size/specs of the flex joints in the stock DPs?

[badger.]

Also if anyone is curious what the carbon build up on 164k mile motor looks like:

[gcoy]

AVA !!!

[TarlCabot]

yeah, we don't get a lot of CB on our engines, some chemtool and a couple of rags and a little elbow grease... and had all mine looking brand new on the B6 with over 100k on the clock

[jakeoboy67]

Also if anyone is curious what the carbon build up on 164k mile motor looks like:

with an injector cleaning those valves , I dont see how carbon could build up

most newer direct injection engines have CB problems because only air and oil fumes from pcv are going through the intake ports.

[badger.]

Well I knew it couldn't go as well as it did... Threw the CEL twice in the last two days.

First was exactly 200 miles after the timing job. Light popped on about 20 minutes into the morning drive to work. I noted the codes then cleared them.
P0491
P0492

Second was this morning, again about 20 minutes into the drive to work. This is exactly 75 miles after I cleared the first ones above.
P0491
P0492

It throws both banks at once. Due to this fact, I am thinking it is not an individual valve/pump or any of the vacuum plumbing to or from a single unit. So what does that leave me?

1) I did piggy pipes. However I did relocate my rear O2 sensors, but maybe that is not enough?
2) My flex joints are in rough shape (these are just upstream of the main cats). I don't think they are leaking (not audibly anyway) but I haven't crawled under there to listen super close or do a soap test. Again, I would think it would only throw one side though because I doubt they leak (if they even do) at the exact same rate.


I will check the vac lines I can get to tonight. But in the meantime, any ideas?

[TarlCabot]

had this code on my B6 and turned out to be vacuum leak from the brittle plastic line that sits on top of the IM and goes to the front of the motor... hope this helps :/

[Jake@JHM]

We have an SAI delete tune

[bgc996]

^ works great. Took care of my problems with it. Mine was throwing the same 2 codes.

[kevinye77137]

Didn't know that they developed an APP for OBD! Thanks now I don't have to borrow my friends! Just bought the adapter for pretty cheap at amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005NLQAHS/...745480_TE_item

[TarlCabot]

Didn't know that they developed an APP for OBD! Thanks now I don't have to borrow my friends! Just bought the adapter for pretty cheap at amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005NLQAHS/...745480_TE_item

does this just give you codes are possibly more info, like engine timing retard, o2, etc. ?

ive got vcds, but dont like to log with it

[kevinye77137]

does this just give you codes are possibly more info, like engine timing retard, o2, etc. ?

ive got vcds, but dont like to log with it

I have been watching youtube videos about it and it shows a lot of information about the coolant temp, revs, MPG, boost, read codes, fuel pressure, mph, load, accel and 0-60 times. Its like a virtual gauge on your phone. Very interesting. Im not sure about engine timing retard or o2. I believe this is just basic readings. VCDS is probably more advance since that cost 10X more

[BCsniper]

Hey guys - great informative thread. Have been reading with interest!

I am currently having this job done on my own vehicle. Mechanic and I are undecided on whether we need to replace the mechanical adjusters. I have attached photos of my current ones. The left hand side is Cylinder 1-4 and right and side 5-8. Note that I was getting misfire codes for cylinder 1-4, but had no cam related codes at all. These are not a cheap part for me, especially after converting to my currency and including import fees and freight charges.

Does anyone have a good 2nd hand pair of these they are willing to sell and ship to NZ?




Thanks in advance!

Rory

I saw that my old sprockets have made it out to New Zealand now. You on the way to getting your car back together now?

[badger.]

I have been watching youtube videos about it and it shows a lot of information about the coolant temp, revs, MPG, boost, read codes, fuel pressure, mph, load, accel and 0-60 times. Its like a virtual gauge on your phone. Very interesting. Im not sure about engine timing retard or o2. I believe this is just basic readings. VCDS is probably more advance since that cost 10X more

It is very basic but you can get quite a bit. Ill try to get a list up tomorrow if you want. App is Torque Pro ($5), my adapter is some generic bluetooth thing from amazon was like $15. There are some additional add-on modules you can get for extra stuff.

I can view and clear CELs which is very nice.

[TarlCabot]

I saw that my old sprockets have made it out to New Zealand now. You on the way to getting your car back together now?

good thing...cause he would have continued to still get misfires on 1-4 :)

[TarlCabot]

Is this something extra i would have to buy other than what kevin listed above... looks like right on for what i was wanting to be able to record while at the track or on spirited drives, i realize it is limited to the app and what sensors our cars actually support...


With the BAFX Products Elm 327 bluetooth adapter you will be able to:


Read and clear diagnostic trouble codes (DTC)
display and read
engine data such as RPM
Vehicle Speed
Long Term Fuel Trim
Short Term Fuel Trim
Timing Advance
Intake Air Temp
Air Flow Rate
Oxygen Sensors
and so much more!

[rixonichard]

Is this something extra i would have to buy other than what kevin listed above... looks like right on for what i was wanting to be able to record while at the track or on spirited drives, i realize it is limited to the app and what sensors our cars actually support...


With the BAFX Products Elm 327 bluetooth adapter you will be able to:


Read and clear diagnostic trouble codes (DTC)
display and read
engine data such as RPM
Vehicle Speed
Long Term Fuel Trim
Short Term Fuel Trim
Timing Advance
Intake Air Temp
Air Flow Rate
Oxygen Sensors
and so much more!

How about oil temp?

[rsrider]

Yip - adjusters were given to the mechanic on Tuesday (Monday your time) - they were the last piece of the puzzle, so now just waiting for it to all be put back together! Will let you know how it all goes.

He has already replaced the valley gaskets and oil jets/valve and also fitted the ECS engine mounts and APR snub mount. Getting a few other seals and things done while the motor is out, and I also had the Valve Covers re-coated as well due to them corroding and flaking. Turns out the early valve covers are made of magnesium, not even alloy....how cheap is Audi? lol

[kevinye77137]

Torque Pro app does include oil temperature but not sure if it reads it. I am waiting for adapter to come on Friday. Can't wait!

[Ritt]

Great thread and awesome and congrats on a job well done.

[Quadfreak]

Torque Pro app does include oil temperature but not sure if it reads it. I am waiting for adapter to come on Friday. Can't wait!

If it's monitored by the ECU, it should read it. I have had torque pro with the ELM adapter for awhile now, I'll check if it monitors the oil temp in the morning. I'm pretty sure it does though.

[badger.]

It does not monitor the oil temp. The module is there but it doesn't receive/display any data.

Here are some screenshots I took the other day. I have my units in metric but there is a setting in the options to swap to English. The HP/MPG type measurements are not really accurate unless you really detail out the specifics of the car in the settings which I did not do.

[Quadfreak]

Yeah I just checked that. Guess I was mistaken. Although I did find a ton of stuff I didn't know I can do with it in the the process.

[rsrider]

Ok, so got the car back today. Was so excited picking it up. Been almost 2 months without her! Problem is I don't think its running 100%. There is no misfire anymore but there is a noticeable flat spot of power around the 3000 to 5000rpm mark or thereabouts. I called him after driving it home and is happy for me to take it back to have look. He did suggest he is confident the timing is set up correctly but suggested due to the timing and misfire that maybe the some of the intake flaps may have been damaged. Any ideas?

[dsmclark40v]

Ok, so got the car back today. Was so excited picking it up. Been almost 2 months without her! Problem is I don't think its running 100%. There is no misfire anymore but there is a noticeable flat spot of power around the 3000 to 5000rpm mark or thereabouts. I called him after driving it home and is happy for me to take it back to have look. He did suggest he is confident the timing is set up correctly but suggested due to the timing and misfire that maybe the some of the intake flaps may have been damaged. Any ideas?

When mine was done they wouldn't give it back to me as they said it wasn't running right and then they discovered the exhaust valves had slightly touched on one bank. So I should think a compression test would reveal all.

[rsrider]

Well i sure as hell hope that's not the case. I asked him from the get go what the likelihood of valve damage was and he was confident it wouldn't be an issue. He reckoned a compression test while the timing was out wouldn't reveal much anyway?

[TarlCabot]

most likely a vacuum leak, but could very well be a bent valve

[rsrider]

I assume he should have done a leak down test due to the timing issue to see if there was a valve problem?

[TarlCabot]

I assume he should have done a leak down test due to the timing issue to see if there was a valve problem?

i would assume bent valve/s would be a consistent power loss throughout the entire RPM range, however... slow4 had a bent valve on every cylinder on bank 1 and i don't think he noticed any considerable power loss...

i guess now would be a good time to do a compression and leakdown, scope, etc.

[rsrider]

I think before I spent close to $7k doing the timing job would have been a better time to do the leakdown and compressing testing. I'll certainly be taking it further if this turns out to be the issue!

[rsrider]

Just did a quick scan for codes and got 16716 Knock sensor and 16497 air intake temp........

[badger.]

Just did a quick scan for codes and got 16716 Knock sensor and 16497 air intake temp........

That other thread http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...om-2-4K-no-CEL his issue turned out to be a bad knock sensor wire. Same symptoms almost, he said between 2-4k was flat power. Sounds like it might be a bad knock sensor for you too. Hopefully that is all it is, much less $$ to fix than bent valves!