Random Shake / Wobble?

**daad729** · 03-17-2015 05:53 AM

So occassionally when im cruising i get a fairly aggressive shake at almost any speed. Then it goes away. Other times, the shake doesnt start until i hit about 70MPH and then its not too bad but still noticeable. I thought maybe i had a wheel or two out of balance but im not sure where to start. Any help would be great.

B6 S4 2004

**AllroadCorbin** · 03-17-2015 05:55 AM

Do you feel it in the seat or does the wheel shake back and forth in your hand. Or both

**rjpiselli** · 03-17-2015 06:04 AM

a tire being out of balance will be consistent. it will not be occasional. It may happen only at certain speeds, but it will always happen and always at the same speed.

For example, if you have a tire out of balance, it may cause a vibration at 65mph. If so, it will always vibrate at 65. It will never not vibrate at 65, and it will never sometimes vibrate at 70. Balanced (or unbalanced) tires are a static thing, not dynamic. They do not change. The only way it will change, is if you rebalance it.

So when you say "occasionally when im cruising i get a shake" or "other times it doesn't start until i hit 70", this indicates to me that it is not a tire out of balance, but another issue.

Given that the scenario you described is accurate, and that the shake is not caused by the road itself, I do not know what would be coming and going that would cause a shake. Suspension maybe??? Most issues related to ride quality and shaking are going to be constant in my experience. But the one thing i can assure you, if the shaking is sometimes there, sometimes not, it is NOT your tires.

**daad729** · 03-17-2015 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by AllroadCorbin

Do you feel it in the seat or does the wheel shake back and forth in your hand. Or both

I feel it in both places.

**daad729** · 03-17-2015 06:09 AM

I thought maybe i had some ice-snow built up in there somewhere and it was throwing it out of balance or something. But now that theres not much on the ground right now its starting to concern me more. The reason behind thinking it was the wheels is because the rims on this car are in crap shape. I bought the car with them on it and was waiting until spring to put some better wheels on but these things are beat.

Originally Posted by rjpiselli

a tire being out of balance will be consistent. it will not be occasional. It may happen only at certain speeds, but it will always happen and always at the same speed.

For example, if you have a tire out of balance, it may cause a vibration at 65mph. If so, it will always vibrate at 65. It will never not vibrate at 65, and it will never sometimes vibrate at 70. Balanced (or unbalanced) tires are a static thing, not dynamic. They do not change. The only way it will change, is if you rebalance it.

So when you say "occasionally when im cruising i get a shake" or "other times it doesn't start until i hit 70", this indicates to me that it is not a tire out of balance, but another issue.

Given that the scenario you described is accurate, and that the shake is not caused by the road itself, I do not know what would be coming and going that would cause a shake. Suspension maybe??? Most issues related to ride quality and shaking are going to be constant in my experience. But the one thing i can assure you, if the shaking is sometimes there, sometimes not, it is NOT your tires.

**rjpiselli** · 03-17-2015 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by daad729

I thought maybe i had some ice-snow built up in there somewhere and it was throwing it out of balance or something. But now that theres not much on the ground right now its starting to concern me more. The reason behind thinking it was the wheels is because the rims on this car are in crap shape. I bought the car with them on it and was waiting until spring to put some better wheels on but these things are beat.

snow/ice is something that will affect the balance of the tires, and would obviously change as it melts. however, this is something that is going to have to be visually noticeable. If you see the spokes of your wheels packed with snow/ice, clean them out. If you don't visually see snow packed in, this is likely not the culprit. Also, just like wheel weights, a bad wheel is going to be consistent. One scenario could be that your tires were balanced, and the condition of the wheels was such that a wheel weight fell off. This would mean that the car rode smooth, and then got a shake. The only issue with that scenario is that the shake isn't going to go away. In regards to balanced or unbalanced tires, once you have a shake it will stay there and always be there everytime, until you get them rebalanced (or until you clean the snow/ice build up out of the wheels).

**daad729** · 03-17-2015 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by rjpiselli

snow/ice is something that will affect the balance of the tires, and would obviously change as it melts. however, this is something that is going to have to be visually noticeable. If you see the spokes of your wheels packed with snow/ice, clean them out. If you don't visually see snow packed in, this is likely not the culprit. Also, just like wheel weights, a bad wheel is going to be consistent. One scenario could be that your tires were balanced, and the condition of the wheels was such that a wheel weight fell off. This would mean that the car rode smooth, and then got a shake. The only issue with that scenario is that the shake isn't going to go away. In regards to balanced or unbalanced tires, once you have a shake it will stay there and always be there everytime, until you get them rebalanced (or until you clean the snow/ice build up out of the wheels).

Yeah thats what i was thinking too. It always has a shake but sometimes seems to be worse than others so thats why it makes no sense. I did get an allignment done recently and they told me that my right front tierod adjustment was locked up and they couldnt adjust it.

**badger.** · 03-17-2015 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by daad729

Yeah thats what i was thinking too. It always has a shake but sometimes seems to be worse than others so thats why it makes no sense. I did get an allignment done recently and they told me that my right front tierod adjustment was locked up and they couldnt adjust it.

I have this issue. I've tried so much crap, new wheels, so many new tires, balances, road force balances, alignments, tie rod ends, front control arms, front axles.. Doesn't kick in at the same exact speed every time. Isn't dependent on engine load or RPM. Comes and goes, some days are worse than others. Sometimes the steering wheel shakes, almost always the seats are a bit. Dead steady until ~55mph+, often until about 65.

It isn't terrible and I just live with it now. Rotating/balancing, changing tire pressure, cleaning, etc all seem to have minimal effect.

I posted here before and in AR about it, never found resolution.

All that I can think is motor/trans/diff mounts. I am doing my motor mounts (already did snub) this spring. From what I can tell they aren't bad (no leaking fluid or resistor codes). Maybe that will help. I also read maybe the driveshaft carrier bearing can go out or start to wear, but I have no idea how to check this really.

Or maybe I'm just insane now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

**daad729** · 03-17-2015 08:17 AM

Well im glad im not the only one going through it. I've just been living with it too but i like to go fast and sometimes im wondering if my wheel is gonna come flying off or something. lol I also thought i read somewhere abou the driveshaft carrier bearing too. I wonder how much of a job that is to get done.

Originally Posted by badger.

I have this issue. I've tried so much crap, new wheels, so many new tires, balances, road force balances, alignments, tie rod ends, front control arms, front axles.. Doesn't kick in at the same exact speed every time. Isn't dependent on engine load or RPM. Comes and goes, some days are worse than others. Sometimes the steering wheel shakes, almost always the seats are a bit. Dead steady until ~55mph+, often until about 65.

It isn't terrible and I just live with it now. Rotating/balancing, changing tire pressure, cleaning, etc all seem to have minimal effect.

I posted here before and in AR about it, never found resolution.

All that I can think is motor/trans/diff mounts. I am doing my motor mounts (already did snub) this spring. From what I can tell they aren't bad (no leaking fluid or resistor codes). Maybe that will help. I also read maybe the driveshaft carrier bearing can go out or start to wear, but I have no idea how to check this really.

Or maybe I'm just insane now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

**JayDog747** · 03-17-2015 08:22 AM

How many miles are on the car?

Put the front end in the air and check the control arm bushings for splits or cracks. Check the ball joints and tie rods. Are the CV boots still intact? Check the motor mounts for any leaking. Lift up the rear and check the control arm bushings and outer hub bushing. Check the rear diff mount. Check the drive shaft for play. Are the brake rotors warped?

As you can see, it can be any number of things that can be causing the shakes. You can always start with having your tires balanced.

**daad729** · 03-17-2015 08:30 AM

Im gonna give the tires a balancing first despite knowing its most likely not the issue. Getting the car up in the air is the next step just not sure how im gonna get it done right now. I have no access to a lift or the place to do it at the moment. What a pain in the ass. Good thing i love my car!

Originally Posted by JayDog747

How many miles are on the car?

Put the front end in the air and check the control arm bushings for splits or cracks. Check the ball joints and tie rods. Are the CV boots still intact? Check the motor mounts for any leaking. Lift up the rear and check the control arm bushings and outer hub bushing. Check the rear diff mount. Check the drive shaft for play. Are the brake rotors warped?

As you can see, it can be any number of things that can be causing the shakes. You can always start with having your tires balanced.

**Tinpusher** · 03-17-2015 08:40 AM

I washed my car last weekend for the first time this winter and there is a mild shake now at highway speed but I know from experience its because I washed off some of the 3 month accumulation of crap from the inside of the wheels leaving a little (behind the spokes) behind which is enough to unbalance the wheels. Unless I remove the wheels to clean behind the spokes I'll have to live with it until I do the tire swap in a month or so.

As to what might cause random shaking....what others have said could all be possible but it doesn't sound like a balancing issue as that is usually speed dependent. Oh, check all of your lug nuts too. A loose one can cause some shaking.

**jmcS4** · 03-17-2015 09:04 AM

I have the same issue. i've replaced upper control arms, both front wheel bearing, and cv axles and it's still there at highway speeds. all of the parts i listed needed to replaced. i'm starting to suspect motor mounts along with a improperly aligned snub mount. i also plan on getting the tires rebalanced but the vibration is still present when i swap wheels

**daad729** · 03-17-2015 09:34 AM

Snub mount is a fairly affordable project to do as a start. I was going to do it anyway. I still have a feeling it may be related to that center carrier bearing as stated above. Hopefully we get some more responses and someone who has actually fixed the issue!

Originally Posted by jmcS4

I have the same issue. i've replaced upper control arms, both front wheel bearing, and cv axles and it's still there at highway speeds. all of the parts i listed needed to replaced. i'm starting to suspect motor mounts along with a improperly aligned snub mount. i also plan on getting the tires rebalanced but the vibration is still present when i swap wheels

**FastEddie** · 03-17-2015 09:53 AM

Are you running spacers? had a similar issue from not running hub centric BUT if the surface of the spacer is not clean or on right it can cause this. Its very similar to an unbalanced wheel.

**daad729** · 03-17-2015 10:13 AM

Nope - no spacers but it did just make me think. The wheels that are on it now are some replica type. Im really not even sure what they are. Maybe ill throw a pic up so people can try and identify them but also makes me wonder if they are hubcentric themselves? Is it possible for a wheel to not be?

Originally Posted by FastEddie

Are you running spacers? had a similar issue from not running hub centric BUT if the surface of the spacer is not clean or on right it can cause this. Its very similar to an unbalanced wheel.

**s4avanter** · 03-17-2015 11:50 AM

did you check the lug nuts to make sure they are tight/not missing any? I just had this happen where my rear's got loose. Trashed one of the hub and bearings and had to replace it. Had similar simptoms where it woudl go away when you weighted the wheel and randomly worse at times. sounds simple but give'm a tug.

**rjpiselli** · 03-17-2015 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by daad729

Nope - no spacers but it did just make me think. The wheels that are on it now are some replica type. Im really not even sure what they are. Maybe ill throw a pic up so people can try and identify them but also makes me wonder if they are hubcentric themselves? Is it possible for a wheel to not be?

if your wheels are not stock they will often times come with hubcentric rings. These are plastic rings that fit in the center hole of the wheel to remove the gap between the wheel and the hub. not only will the absence of these rings cause vibrations, but it is also not recommended that you run wheels that should have them without them as it puts unnecessary stress on the lug bolts.

now personally, I do not know if I buy into any danger to the lug bolts due to a lack of these rings, but hubcentric rings are $5 for a set of 4 and I can tell you from experience they can cause vibration. To tell if your wheels should have them, simply look at the center hole and see if it fits snug around the hub of the car. if it does you do not need the rings. if there is a gap, order them.

**daad729** · 03-17-2015 12:18 PM

will be double checking these tonight!

Originally Posted by s4avanter

did you check the lug nuts to make sure they are tight/not missing any? I just had this happen where my rear's got loose. Trashed one of the hub and bearings and had to replace it. Had similar simptoms where it woudl go away when you weighted the wheel and randomly worse at times. sounds simple but give'm a tug.

**daad729** · 03-17-2015 12:19 PM

I have a feeling they are in need of the rings! Ill take a closer look at them this evening. Hopefully the fix is that easy, if not at least i can check it off the list of possible causes.

How do i know what size rings to buy?

Originally Posted by rjpiselli

if your wheels are not stock they will often times come with hubcentric rings. These are plastic rings that fit in the center hole of the wheel to remove the gap between the wheel and the hub. not only will the absence of these rings cause vibrations, but it is also not recommended that you run wheels that should have them without them as it puts unnecessary stress on the lug bolts.

now personally, I do not know if I buy into any danger to the lug bolts due to a lack of these rings, but hubcentric rings are $5 for a set of 4 and I can tell you from experience they can cause vibration. To tell if your wheels should have them, simply look at the center hole and see if it fits snug around the hub of the car. if it does you do not need the rings. if there is a gap, order them.

**rjpiselli** · 03-17-2015 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by daad729

I have a feeling they are in need of the rings! Ill take a closer look at them this evening. Hopefully the fix is that easy, if not at least i can check it off the list of possible causes.

How do i know what size rings to buy?

you can measure the diameter of the inner wheel hole, and the hub, but the measurements are very small and need to be precise. I would recommend finding a dealer for whatever brand wheel you have, and utilizing them. When I was employed by a tire shop, we would tell the wheel vendor which wheel we had, and the year/make/model of vehicle, and they would ship us the right ring. That's your best bet. Having the wrong ring on there that is sloppy will defeat the purpose of it being there.

Find out what brand your wheels are.
Find a dealer for that brand (actual store or online)
Tell them the wheel brand/style and your car year/make/model

**daad729** · 03-17-2015 12:46 PM

Thanks for the help. Ill try to find the time this week to take a wheel off and get a good look. I have no idea what the hell is on there. I do know that i cant stand them. lol

Originally Posted by rjpiselli

you can measure the diameter of the inner wheel hole, and the hub, but the measurements are very small and need to be precise. I would recommend finding a dealer for whatever brand wheel you have, and utilizing them. When I was employed by a tire shop, we would tell the wheel vendor which wheel we had, and the year/make/model of vehicle, and they would ship us the right ring. That's your best bet. Having the wrong ring on there that is sloppy will defeat the purpose of it being there.

Find out what brand your wheels are.
Find a dealer for that brand (actual store or online)
Tell them the wheel brand/style and your car year/make/model

**rjpiselli** · 03-17-2015 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by daad729

Thanks for the help. Ill try to find the time this week to take a wheel off and get a good look. I have no idea what the hell is on there. I do know that i cant stand them. lol

on a side note, I am looking to sell my o.z. wheels if your interested in scratching the current wheels and picking up a new to you set

**daad729** · 03-17-2015 01:33 PM

LOLOL - thanks for the offer! I do have something in mind for some new wheels in the works but i need to get some money up!

Originally Posted by rjpiselli

on a side note, I am looking to sell my o.z. wheels if your interested in scratching the current wheels and picking up a new to you set

**GameBreaker** · 03-18-2015 11:41 AM

FYI, I had the same problem and it was only noticeable above 75. It ended up that 2 wheels were slightly bent and also needed balancing. It took a while for me to notice as I don't do a lot of highway driving, but one trip to the dealer fixed it right up.

**daad729** · 03-18-2015 11:51 AM

Thanks GameBreaker - I hope its that simple a fix. I wont be able check any of these ideas yet until the weekend. Hopefully the weather holds up!

Originally Posted by GameBreaker

FYI, I had the same problem and it was only noticeable above 75. It ended up that 2 wheels were slightly bent and also needed balancing. It took a while for me to notice as I don't do a lot of highway driving, but one trip to the dealer fixed it right up.

**daad729** · 03-19-2015 06:30 AM

UPDATE - turns out one of my wheels is super bent. Havent decided if i should fix it or look for another winter set since im going to need them anyway. Once i figure it out i will update about the ride quality.