Looking at a 2013 S5 (selling my 2010 GTR)...Questions about certain packages

[sicem13]

Hey everyone, I purchased a 2010 GTR last fall and to be honest am just not satisfied with it. The understeer, lack of manual transmission, cheap interior, lackluster looks, and transmission noises are making it tiresome and unsatisfying.

That being said, I'm looking to purchase a 2013 S5 and sell the GTR.

I've studied and studied the options/packages on the 2013 S5.

I've decided that I want either of the following, in a 2013 S5 with manual transmission:

(1) Premium Plus + MMI package + sports differential package + advanced key + (B&O, carbon inlays, and 19" wheels would be nice too)
(2) Prestige (includes MMI, advanced key, and B&O) + sports differential package + (carbon inlays, 19" wheels, and the Driver Assist package would be nice too)

Since I can't find a VIN decoder online, I have a few questions:

(1) How can you tell if a Premium Plus has advanced key? Is it as simple as looking at the console and if it has the Push Button to Start, it has advanced key? If so, why are so many cars for sale pictured with the key in the dash?

(2) How can you tell if the car has the Driver Assist Package and/or the Sports Differential Package (I see on the 2013 order guide that either of these options have the "Drive Select" button as part of the package), but my question is how can I determine which (or both) of these packages are included if a car is pictured with the "Drive Select" button?

(3) Is the Drive Assist package worth having?

(4) Is the B&O sound system worth having?

(5) I've heard the Audi Adaptive Damping suspension increases oversteer (the exact opposite of what I want)...any reviews/comments on this?

(6) If there is a VIN decoder that can tell me what all the packages are that are included with the car (just like BMW has), what is the website? I'm not talking about those decoders where you can only see what trim, year, and model it is...

(7) Finally, on the off chance that you have a 2013 S5 with these requirements, and have interest in a 2010 GTR and want to trade with an extra $22,500 on your end, let me know.

Thanks guys. I look forward to your response.

[Nastybutler]

Not an expert on these things but I've answered what I can from what I've learned here. See notes after your questions below:

(1) How can you tell if a Premium Plus has advanced key? Is it as simple as looking at the console and if it has the Push Button to Start, it has advanced key? If so, why are so many cars for sale pictured with the key in the dash?

Yes, if it has the Push to Start/Stop is has the advanced key. Even having the advanced key it still has the slot and can be started with the key in the slot rather than the push button. Most dealerships just put the key in the slot when they take the photos, for whatever reason.

(2) How can you tell if the car has the Driver Assist Package and/or the Sports Differential Package (I see on the 2013 order guide that either of these options have the "Drive Select" button as part of the package), but my question is how can I determine which (or both) of these packages are included if a car is pictured with the "Drive Select" button?

I think (someone can correct me if I'm wrong) you can tell if it has the Driver Assist by looking for the round "radar eye" near the foglight in the front. Also the side mirrors will have the side assist sensor on it. The Sport Diff can be tricky as you might have to lay down and look under the car for it, and you'll have to know what you're looking for. There are pics on this forum somewhere that show the difference between the two. Either that or have the owner show you the dealer list of options.

(3) Is the Drive Assist package worth having?

(4) Is the B&O sound system worth having?

For the money, it was worth it to me. Depends on you and what you want out of a stock sound system. If you're willing to spend more money, you can have a custom system installed that will sound better than the B&O.

(5) I've heard the Audi Adaptive Damping suspension increases oversteer (the exact opposite of what I want)...any reviews/comments on this?

(6) If there is a VIN decoder that can tell me what all the packages are that are included with the car (just like BMW has), what is the website? I'm not talking about those decoders where you can only see what trim, year, and model it is...

(7) Finally, on the off chance that you have a 2013 S5 with these requirements, and have interest in a 2010 GTR and want to trade with an extra $22,500 on your end, let me know.

Thanks guys. I look forward to your response.

[B8 S FOR]

Advanced Key, Sports Diff and B&O are a MUST HAVE!!!!!!

[dseag2]

I've only had the Sport differerential on my S5's, and I haven't noticed oversteer, but it sure will kick you out of corner planted nicely.

The B&O system isn't "otherworldly", but it's decent, and it only costs $850 for the upgrade. Worth it.

[doug97gxe]

B&O is worth the upgrade but an aftermarket sub makes it perfect...

[Mops@Nemesis]

As mentioned, BO is not awesome, but I'd not do without. Worth the extra for sure IMO.

[alexb3210]

Let's see the GTR up for trade.

[zhclvn]

Drive Assist isnt necessary but nice to have if you are cruising and forget to check your lane before merging.

[DSC447]

B&O is worth the upgrade but an aftermarket sub makes it perfect...

+1 I did the same with the RS5 I bought last month and I really like the sound system.

To the OP, the 2015 GTR was on my short list. I really wanted to love the car b/c it is so fast, but the road noise on the highway was just too much to live with as a DD. Good luck on your search.

[Longwolf]

Driver Assist package is good if you don't know how to drive or check mirrors.

As for sport differential; I have it, and it is only noticeable when I take the car up to the mountains and flog it. With my warranty expiring in 1.5 years, I am starting to regret the sport diff. I don't get a chance to utilize it enough to warrant the potential repair cost of the complex differential. Now I actually haven't heard of any issues with the sport diff failing, but I just don't trust Audi to design it it last 150k without a $5000 rebuild somewhere along the way.

[BoostEasy]

Some other thoughts as others covered most of your points above:

If you live in TX, think about getting the seats with Alcantara vs full leather. I have the Alcantara and love it. Cooler in the summer, warmer feeling in winter. Keeps your butt in the seat where it should be vs sliding around a little more with full leather.

BO is nice for the $. I'm not sure if the std audio offers it vs not but with B&O you can direct the sound to focus more vs less on the driver with special audio processing logic (forget the name of it). I did this in my S5 and I think it did improve the sound for me. Also, you can tell if a car has B&O because the speaker grills should be surrounded by a matte silver trim ring (which actually says "B&O" on it).

I have driver assist and it wouldn't make or break a sale for me but if I had the choice I would opt for it. It is useful from time to time. The interior at the front of the side windows where the side mirrors are will have a little button with LED on it to enable/disable the side-assist. Easy way to spot it.

Carbon Atlas inlays all the way.

Sports diff is an unusual animal. You won't notice it in normal cruising but when you step on the gas in a turn, it's a unique and welcome feeling that the car just understeers less and rotates better than it should if you've ever driven an older AWD car that doesn't have such a gizmo. So it depends on how much you really want that feeling based on how you drive. Given you have a GTR, I'm guessing you enjoy your turns and freeway on/off ramps so I'd say definitely go for it. The only two ways to positively ID it would be to either look under the rear of the car at the rear diff and it should have visible hydraulic lines going into the sides of it that the std diff doesn't have or use the "Car" button on the MMI and you'll see the setting for the rear diff.

Wheels I wouldn't be overly concerned about because, other than 5-rotors, the other wheels IMO don't look all that hot and you can get a decent aftermarket setup for a little over $2k w/tires.

[Longwolf]

Definitely get the alcantara. I ordered mine with black/silver alcantara, but after some research, I changed the order to black leather/black alcantara. I read on several forums that the silver alcantara looks pretty dull after a couple years.

[jmaddr]

Everyone's advice about is good to get pretty close to certainty. I might add, before you purchase, call Audi of America with the VIN. They will tell you everything on the sticker. I did that when I purchased my 2013.

Also ask if they can tell you TD1 status and report back here. If they can, record that phone call (based on some one else thread that is currently having issues now). :)

[sicem13]

Thanks for the all the advice/info guys. I'm having a hard time finding a 2013 that fits all my criteria. I guess a manual with the Alcantara + Nav + Advanced key + sports diff + carbon inlays is hard to come by. Oh well, I'll keep the search going! For the user who asked, here's my 2010 GTR. Has a Speed By Design SBD700 kit on it as well. Here are some pics!

[salhiehm1]

I would never leave that thing. If i could go back to October, I would've taken the extra $10k loan and gotten a used GTR they had. You have a beautiful machine sir, but that interior does lack.

[S5xy]

Lol, what the...you're tired of understeer but want to get an S5? Just be prepared to lose out on a lot (and a lot) of performance when switching over.

[jawqn87]

How much for the GTR?

[TlMeLess]

Unless you tune your S5 stage 2, you will probably be shocked at how slow the stock S5 is... but then again, if you didn't drive your GTR hard, the downgrade may not be that bad. The interior on the GTR is too much like my old Integra.

[diirk]

PM Sent

[sicem13]

I would never leave that thing. If i could go back to October, I would've taken the extra $10k loan and gotten a used GTR they had. You have a beautiful machine sir, but that interior does lack.

Maybe my problem is always seeing cars as the grass is always greener... However, I really have a hope that the S5 will satisfy my desire for a F/I luxury sports car that comes in manual and can be tuned for over 400hp (don't even mention an M4, I'm not interested)! Haha.

Lol, what the...you're tired of understeer but want to get an S5? Just be prepared to lose out on a lot (and a lot) of performance when switching over.

Yeah, and see, that's why I posted on here. I've read that the S5 has mild understeer, but I was hoping to hear inputs that with the sports diff, the understeer is eliminated. And perhaps with a tune adding more power, in conjunction with the Sports Diff, there might be a tad bit of oversteer??

How much for the GTR?

$64k. Or $22k on top of a 2013 manual S5 with sports diff package.

Unless you tune your S5 stage 2, you will probably be shocked at how slow the stock S5 is... but then again, if you didn't drive your GTR hard, the downgrade may not be that bad. The interior on the GTR is too much like my old Integra.

I drove the crap out of the GTR. It's got the Speed By Design SBD700 kit on it. 580 to the wheels. It screams in a straight line. Just another worry that I won't be satisfied with any other car in a straight line...but that's not what I'm going for. My goal is to get a manual F/I sports car that has a good amount of luxury. I really just have the S5, 435i, M4, and 6 series to choose from. The S5 blows the 435i away in a road test, the M4 is just too much money for the amount of car you get, and I dislike the 6 series...leaving me with the S5 as my only option.

PM Sent

Replied!

[superswiss]

Yeah, and see, that's why I posted on here. I've read that the S5 has mild understeer, but I was hoping to hear inputs that with the sports diff, the understeer is eliminated. And perhaps with a tune adding more power, in conjunction with the Sports Diff, there might be a tad bit of oversteer??

The amount of understeer/oversteer and how controllable it is depends on how you configure the S5.

Adaptive suspension has more understeer than the non-adaptive suspension, one reason being the smaller rear sway bar.

The manual transmission drivetrain has more understeer than the DSG drivetrain due to the generational differences between the two. The DSG drivetrain is the latest generation quattro system from the RS5, with the self-locking more rear biased crown gear center differential and torque vectoring on both front and rear axles with or without sport differential. The sport differential adds the ability to actively overdrive the rear outer wheel, but even w/o the SD, it uses the brakes to send more torque to the outer front and rear wheels to introduce an additional yaw moment. The manual transmission drivetrain is the older generation quattro system with torsen center differential and no torque vectoring, unless you add the sport differential and then only on the rear axle.

Lastly, the optional dynamic steering that comes with the driver assist package further reduces understeer. It works hand in hand with the sport differential by making minor changes to the steering ratio at the handling limit to help the front tires hook up and put the sport differential in a better position to rotate the rear.

So, with all that said, the least understeering/most oversteering S5 is one with standard suspension, S-tronic, sport differential and dynamic steering.

[teky929rr]

Used R8?

[sicem13]

The amount of understeer/oversteer and how controllable it is depends on how you configure the S5.

Adaptive suspension has more understeer than the non-adaptive suspension, one reason being the smaller rear sway bar.

The manual transmission drivetrain has more understeer than the DSG drivetrain due to the generational differences between the two. The DSG drivetrain is the latest generation quattro system from the RS5, with the self-locking more rear biased crown gear center differential and torque vectoring on both front and rear axles with or without sport differential. The sport differential adds the ability to actively overdrive the rear outer wheel, but even w/o the SD, it uses the brakes to send more torque to the outer front and rear wheels to introduce an additional yaw moment. The manual transmission drivetrain is the older generation quattro system with torsen center differential and no torque vectoring, unless you add the sport differential and then only on the rear axle.

Lastly, the optional dynamic steering that comes with the driver assist package further reduces understeer. It works hand in hand with the sport differential by making minor changes to the steering ratio at the handling limit to help the front tires hook up and put the sport differential in a better position to rotate the rear.

So, with all that said, the least understeering/most oversteering S5 is one with standard suspension, S-tronic, sport differential and dynamic steering.

Thanks for the advice! Appreciate it!

Used R8?

Eh, only if someone wants to trade me straight-up :)

[Patrick_S5]

pm'd