EPC and Engine light on

**eurban** · 03-08-2015 12:00 PM

Hello,

This my first real post here . . .

I was driving my wife's 2009 A4 Avant (2.0T) on the highway last night and the EPC light came (staid on steady) on along with vibration and rough running. I got off the highway immediately and the car was idling very roughly and the engine light (yellow engine shaped light) came on as well. I wasn't far from home and was without a cell phone so I limped home and parked it. The car has about 80K miles BTW

This AM I connected an OBD code reader to it and pulled P0300 (multiple missfires) ,P0301(missfire cylinder1),P0302(miss cyl2),P03004(miss cyl4) codes from it. After a bit of reading a decided to purchase 4 new coil packs and 4 new spark plugs (import autoparts store, dealer is closed on Sunday) to hopefully solve the problem. New items installed and the engine is still idling/running roughly. I cleared the codes and drove it around the neighborhood and the EPC light came back on and there is now only a P0302 code showing.

I then decided to remove the new coil packs and plugs. Cylinder number 2 plug was wet and dark. To eliminate any issue with the new parts I moved #2 the spark plug to cylinder 3 and the #2 coil pack to cylinder 1. Upon restart, the engine still ran roughly and a second P0302 code showed up. Pulled the packs and the plugs again, and cylinder #2 is dark and wet. Basically, coil packs and plugs are OK, problem stays with #2 cylinder.

The #2 plug and cylinder doesn't smell particularly gassy so this really worries me that it is oil (major internal engine issue) rather than unburnt gas. Still, the car previously showed multiple misfires and replacing the coils seems to have shortened the list to just cylinder 2. Also the EPC light still comes on.

Anyone have any insight??

I will most likely be taking the car to the dealer tomorrow and it would be nice to have some ideas.

Thanks

Eric

PS: This car has oil consumption issues and has had the stage 1 work done. Improved for a while but now consuming again. Dealer started a consumption test about a month ago. Oil level didn't budge for a week or two and then started going down steadily. I strongly suspect they over filled and it just took a while to drop below max. . .Thought I would throw this info out there.

**o1turbo30v** · 03-08-2015 12:51 PM

It's very possible you have a bad/leaky fuel injector, pretty common on these cars, there was a warranty extension letter for those....

**eurban** · 03-08-2015 01:03 PM

Would that throw the P0300 etc codes?
Would that turn the EPC light on?

Thanks!

**B44** · 03-08-2015 01:03 PM

clean maf sometimes it happens to be maf.

**o1turbo30v** · 03-08-2015 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by eurban

Would that throw the P0300 etc codes?
Would that turn the EPC light on?

Thanks!

Yes it would, you also stated the cylinder #2 plug was wet even after moving it around...

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...4/P0300/000768

**Slick_B8** · 03-08-2015 01:21 PM

Nevermind, it definitely could be an injector if its only on one cylinder

**Yamazaki165** · 03-08-2015 04:58 PM

Also I would suggest checking for air leakage, 2 weeks ago I got a P0300 and P0301 and I also experienced the engine badly shaking. It turns out to be a leaking PCV valve, after replacement, no problem appears so far.

**eurban** · 03-08-2015 05:52 PM

Thanks for the info everyone! I will update after the dealer gets back to me with the diagnosis.

**eurban** · 03-09-2015 12:31 PM

Update:

The dealer called my wife and told her that there was no compression in the #2 cylinder. They wanted (and received) permission to take things apart to figure out what is wrong. . .Pretty much my worst fears have been realized! . . .

The car has about 75K miles on it, has been serviced regularly (almost always at this dealership). It also has a history of oil consumption. . . Is it unreasonable to push for at least some sort assistance ($) from AOA for what will most certainly be a very expensive repair? Can this be linked to the extended warranty provided by AOA as part of the oil consumption lawsuit settlement? Alternatively, is there any precedence here on this forum for out of warranty goodwill repair assistance?

I have done some searching and will continue but any thoughts would be welcome!

**eurban** · 03-10-2015 06:33 PM

Next Update:

Dealer says the the exhaust valves in #2 are not sealing properly. I have yet to get a full details but they say we need a new cylinder head, camshafts(s) and other top end parts. They also claim that Audi doesn't have their dealers rebuild cylinder heads (at least for this version of the 2.0T) engine but rather replace with new. Cost for the parts is $4200 with tax! Oddly, they are picking up all the labor costs.

The dealer has reassured us that these repairs will in no way effect Audi's decisions about any oil consumption issues. We have pretty much decided to go ahead with the repairs and to then see what comes of a new oil consumption test. We are at 75kmiles now and are thus very close to the 80k milestone where it may be much more difficult to get Audi to cover the costs for stage 2 oil consumption repairs. I have serious concerns that if we don't get Audi to do the stage 2 repairs now that they will eventually be needed and we will be SOL. Basically if we don't qualify for the stage 2 work before 80K, we will most likely dump the car and move on; probably to a different manufacturer.

Overall pretty disappointed with this kind of failure at this mileage but Audi did show us at least some love . . .

**o1turbo30v** · 03-10-2015 06:37 PM

This is more likely carbon build up, very common on these cars and relatively easy and cheap to fix (usually caused by a leaking fuel injector). You don't need a new cylinder head you are being lied to.

**eurban** · 03-10-2015 06:56 PM

Thanks for the reply.
Carbon build up on the exhaust valves? Most of what I have read here has been about intake valve carbon build up which can be cleaned by removing the intake and using chemicals and elbow grease. I am planning on getting a more thorough explanation of the exact failure and will probably even go take a look at the parts myself. If it is just carbon then there will be trouble!

**bluetori** · 03-11-2015 06:44 AM

Yeah that seems to be the go to now for some of these dealers telling everyone it's the cylinder head, which it sounds like carbon buildup.

**eurban** · 03-11-2015 09:12 AM

I spoke with the dealer again today and they have backed off a bit on their assessment. $4200 will be worst case assuming it needs the cylinder head, camshaft(s) etc. They have currently only done a leakdown, pulled the valve cover and used a borascope to take a peak. They are going to order all the parts to have on hand and then start taking things apart later this week. I will make a trip up to take a look at things once they have the head off. If its merely carbon, which the adviser said it is not, then then material cost should be relatively small and the labor will be on them. If the valve seats and or valves are bad then we will have the head replaced per Audi's guidelines. In this case, hopefully the camshaft(s) ($1000 aprox!) can be reused as well as some of the other parts that don't come with the "complete" head assembly. I will keep updating . . .

**eurban** · 03-14-2015 02:28 PM

The dealer called me yesterday and gives me some updates. Head is off and the #2cylinder exhaust valves are burnt. They don't yet know the root cause. After discussing the situation with Audi, they want to replace the entire engine! All labor will be covered and half of the materials. . . .$4600ish including tax will be our responsibility. I have yet to speak to the shop foreman who is actually doing the work and the behind the desk service guys don't seem technical enough to explain why Audi thinks the whole engine should be replaced. Regardless we gave them the go ahead and the wife has a new Q5 as a loaner. BTW, I saw the disassembled engine and one of the exhaust valves in #2 has its entire side missing /crisped up. It may take a month for the repairs to be completed depending on how quickly the engine arrives. The new engine will have the updated pistons etc that should solve any oil consumption issues.

I noticed Consumer Reports gives the pre 2012 B8 A4s "black dots" for both engine major and engine minor problems. Our experience certainly reflects this but I suspect most of problems are related to oil consumption issues. We are still not sure whether we want an Audi anymore. Dealer and Audi are showing us some love which does help but nearly $5k for repairs at 75k is disappointing to say the least.

**bluetori** · 03-14-2015 03:23 PM

Unfortunately after stg 1 was performed on oil consumption it seems as though if you don't get the stg 2 performed you will have issues later on. Plus you say part of the exhaust valve was missing, if that's the case then the engine does need to be replaced because of loose metal. Hope everything works out for you guys.

**eurban** · 03-14-2015 04:45 PM

The exhaust valve essentially burned up. I looked at the #2 cylinder bore and it didn't appear to be damaged. I am not sure what Audi's thinking for the complete engine swap vs just replacing the head unless it is their way of getting around having to do more oil consumption work on our car without violating their policy guidelines for dealing with the oil consumption issue in more "typcial" situations. I will keep updating . . .