APR Stage 2 Pulley Upgrade With Stock Intake

[iant]

I'm probably being a bit thick, again, here but believe it or not despite much research I can't seem to find a definitive answer as to whether a Carbonio (or equivalent) is absolutely necessary with APR's Stage 2 or not and I mean absolutely necessary

Has anyone done this (retain the stock one that is). What are the real life disadvantages when keeping the stock intake with this particular tune.

Many thanks

[brianc21]

I just put in a high flow filter in the stock air box. Seems to be just fine....

[Docwyte]

Stock airbox and filter are fine

[EHesh14]

I have the eurocode intake tube paired with the stock filter. Although aftermarket filters give you more flow they are horrible at filtering particles.

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

[iant]

Many thanks all. Sounds like it's not absolutely necessary at all then

[infinkc]

Your fine, but I would take out the snow screen to let it breath better.

[WeeKenny]

Wow that article is still doing the rounds.

The particle filtration of K&N and many other aftermarket filters is more than adequate to filter particles of sufficient size to cause any damage or accelerated wear to your engine.

The part that says your stock filter will flow enough to produce all the HP your engine has to offer is nonsense and has been debunked time and again.

[Mr. Three]

I have GIAC Stage 2 on my S5...took the snow filter in the front of the intake tube out, and cut the plastic blocking portion off that is in front of the filter. Car absolutely rips...and of course the requisite increase in supercharger whine which is pretty cool in my book. Otherwise looks stock.

[Black S]

I have the eurocode intake tube paired with the stock filter. Although aftermarket filters give you more flow they are horrible at filtering particles.

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

Absolutely 100% correct!

Keep your stock filter! I have the Roc Euro intake with my stock filter, the paper filter is far superior at capturing particles over the oiled filters. I can back this up because I have been in a lab testing paper vs oiled filters. Paper OEM wins hands down for filtering, oiled wins just by a slight margin with flow.


I could care less what any other persons says because I have actually been in the lab and have seen it with my own eyes, I will ALWAYS run my OEM filter.

[Black S]

Wow that article is still doing the rounds.

The particle filtration of K&N and many other aftermarket filters is more than adequate to filter particles of sufficient size to cause any damage or accelerated wear to your engine.

The part that says your stock filter will flow enough to produce all the HP your engine has to offer is nonsense and has been debunked time and again.

What's nonsense here is your post. Sorry but you are wrong.!

Have you performed the tests yourself, or are you just believing what others say?

[EHesh14]

Absolutely 100% correct!

Keep your stock filter! I have the Roc Euro intake with my stock filter, the paper filter is far superior at capturing particles over the oiled filters. I can back this up because I have been in a lab testing paper vs oiled filters. Paper OEM wins hands down for filtering, oiled wins just by a slight margin with flow.


I could care less what any other persons says because I have actually been in the lab and have seen it with my own eyes, I will ALWAYS run my OEM filter.

That ah baby! Oem filters ftw

[skiptowncat]

What about dry flow intakes?

[WeeKenny]

What's nonsense here is your post. Sorry but you are wrong.!

Have you performed the tests yourself, or are you just believing what others say?

What's wrong about it? The particle filtration is adequate on K&N type filters, I dont dispute the paper is better but the K&N types are adequate.

The stock filter isn't large enough for all the HP an engine can make, also true. Intake restriction is often used by manufacturers to limit power.

[Vogz]

What's nonsense here is your post. Sorry but you are wrong.!

Have you performed the tests yourself, or are you just believing what others say?

He's completely correct. I've been sending oil samples to Blackstone for analysis on every oil change in my cars for the past 15 years. I've seen zero change in engine wear or silicon contamination by switching to K&N style filters in 4 different vehicles. I've also verified power gains with dyno runs and 1/4 mile passes on multiple vehicles.

I would say real world results are far more telling than what some uber expensive filter test machine spits out.

[blackfunk]

I have the eurocode intake tube paired with the stock filter. Although aftermarket filters give you more flow they are horrible at filtering particles.

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

Not looking for an argument - this is a serious question.

So why then do so many people sware by Roc Euro intakes? I've seen people state that its been proven that they increase HP. So are they saying just the filters are useless or are they implying that the intake + filter is useless.

[Vogz]

Not looking for an argument - this is a serious question.

So why then do so many people sware by Roc Euro intakes? I've seen people state that its been proven that they increase HP. So are they saying just the filters are useless or are they implying that the intake + filter is useless.

That article talks only about filters, not about high flow intake setups. Either way, that article has been soundly debunked with real world results.

[iant]

Just wondering - is APR's stage 2 software designed specifically for an/their upgraded intake or not? (as well as the pulley obviously)

[Black S]

He's completely correct. I've been sending oil samples to Blackstone for analysis on every oil change in my cars for the past 15 years. I've seen zero change in engine wear or silicon contamination by switching to K&N style filters in 4 different vehicles. I've also verified power gains with dyno runs and 1/4 mile passes on multiple vehicles.

I would say real world results are far more telling than what some uber expensive filter test machine spits out.

Oh so I guess Blackstone uses "real world" testing when they test YOUR oil, and not some über test machine.? You sure about that.?

[Chandler]

Not looking for an argument - this is a serious question.

So why then do so many people sware by Roc Euro intakes? I've seen people state that its been proven that they increase HP. So are they saying just the filters are useless or are they implying that the intake + filter is useless.

My Roc-Euro has a nicer sound. I haven't noticed true performance increases anywhere. I am sure if you get a VERY aggressive tune, the intake and filter would show it flows better/ provides air more efficiently. It is nothing you would notice in real world driving I bet though.

[LINDW4LL]

Just wondering - is APR's stage 2 software designed specifically for an/their upgraded intake or not? (as well as the pulley obviously)

An intake is not required for APR Stage 2. You may see a very slight improvement in carefully monitored conditions, such as at the drag strip.

Most just buy an intake for the sound- I recommend the Roc-Euro as the whine is intoxicating. It has also shown to maybe gain a couple of horsepower, and some have logged improvements on the drag strip, but it's essentially negligible in almost all normal conditions.

[iant]

An intake is not required for APR Stage 2. You may see a very slight improvement in carefully monitored conditions, such as at the drag strip.

Most just buy an intake for the sound- I recommend the Roc-Euro as the whine is intoxicating. It has also shown to maybe gain a couple of horsepower, and some have logged improvements on the drag strip, but it's essentially negligible in almost all normal conditions.

Many thanks mate that's exactly what I wanted to know

[Vogz]

Oh so I guess Blackstone uses "real world" testing when they test YOUR oil, and not some über test machine.? You sure about that.?

Really? That's the best rebuttal you have? Blackstone's equipment tests the actual oil that comes out of the car after being "subjected" to an K&N filter. It shows how an engine is wearing and how much contamination is in the actual oil. The problem with the filter test is it tells you that the K&N filter lets X amount more dirt through. What it doesn't tell you is if that X amount more dirt is an issue. Based on oil analysis it's not because it's still a very small amount of dirt overall.

[WeeKenny]

He hasn't a better rebuttle as he hasn't got a leg to stand on. We agree that although the paper filters better the oiled flows better while still providing adequate filtering. He went on the attack half cocked and that's ok we all do sometimes.

Let's face it if K&N filters didn't filter and ruined engines they wouldn't still be going as a company and wouldn't be the OEM for some hand built sports car manufacturers.

Ok most of the butt dyno results may overstate the gains of a filter but the increase in flow and hence power is irrefutable. Regardless of if you'd actually notice it in real world driving situations.

[rs4dreams]

I went stage 2 with the stock intake and installed a Roc Euro intake about 2 months after that. I actually felt a noticeable improvement in throttle response rolling onto the throttle quickly in dynamic mode at mid-high RPM the response felt sharper and more immediate.

[bhvrdr]

Really? That's the best rebuttal you have? Blackstone's equipment tests the actual oil that comes out of the car after being "subjected" to an K&N filter. It shows how an engine is wearing and how much contamination is in the actual oil. The problem with the filter test is it tells you that the K&N filter lets X amount more dirt through. What it doesn't tell you is if that X amount more dirt is an issue. Based on oil analysis it's not because it's still a very small amount of dirt overall.

I would agree with this as well. In fact there are a lot of people who put on tons of miles per year who use K&N because of cost effectiveness. I have an SI for track duty and ran into this post of a guy who puts on about 100,000 miles per year. He has over 900,000 miles on his car. He uses the KN filter and he has gotten about 500,000 miles out of each engine he has had. He only swapped motors because of oil consumption.

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/garag...000-miles.html

Mike

[Arin@APR]

I'm probably being a bit thick, again, here but believe it or not despite much research I can't seem to find a definitive answer as to whether a Carbonio (or equivalent) is absolutely necessary with APR's Stage 2 or not and I mean absolutely necessary

Our software doesn't require the intake at stage 2, so it's not absolutely necessary. However, if you want more power, you'll see more with our upgraded intake vs stock so it's something to consider. Being this is a supercharged platform, everything you can do to help get air into the charger is a big plus.

[EHesh14]

He hasn't a better rebuttle as he hasn't got a leg to stand on. We agree that although the paper filters better the oiled flows better while still providing adequate filtering. He went on the attack half cocked and that's ok we all do sometimes.

Let's face it if K&N filters didn't filter and ruined engines they wouldn't still be going as a company and wouldn't be the OEM for some hand built sports car manufacturers.

Ok most of the butt dyno results may overstate the gains of a filter but the increase in flow and hence power is irrefutable. Regardless of if you'd actually notice it in real world driving situations.

I do agree with oem=better filtration, but are more restrictive than the aftermarket filters. I do see that aftermarket intakes negligibly increase whp, but for my sake I would stick with oem and remove the snow screen since stage 2 isn't a gargantuan difference in power. Engineers get paid lots of doe to make oem filters perfect for a specific car.

[EHesh14]

Not looking for an argument - this is a serious question.

So why then do so many people sware by Roc Euro intakes? I've seen people state that its been proven that they increase HP. So are they saying just the filters are useless or are they implying that the intake + filter is useless.

Although aftermarket filters like k&n flow better they have horrible filtering capacity as you saw in the link I posted. The roc euro is good because it has a better flowing tube and less restrictive filter= more "cold" air. An intake tube will make the air flow more smoothly too. Thats why I combine ecode intake tube with the oem filter. Smoother flowing air into the supercharger with a filter that does its job the best out of all the aftermarket one's. (filtering particle wise)

[1bads4]

Here is what I found out. I just did stage II upgrade last night without installing any high flow intake filter or after market intake. I noticed I was really choked up at mid to top end, I installed the AWE intake without the top of the air box installed. There is a whine but now the car can breath. I wouldn't spend all that money for CF unless you like the look. As for performance just a filter on a stick, so to speak, is good enough.

[Vogz]

I do agree with oem=better filtration, but are more restrictive than the aftermarket filters. I do see that aftermarket intakes negligibly increase whp, but for my sake I would stick with oem and remove the snow screen since stage 2 isn't a gargantuan difference in power. Engineers get paid lots of doe to make oem filters perfect for a specific car.

Engineers get paid to make a filter fit in a specific space. As long as the engine still hit the power target, all is well. OEM filters are not designed with performance in mind and many of them are used in multiple applications to save $$.

[Jango3434]

Our software doesn't require the intake at stage 2, so it's not absolutely necessary. However, if you want more power, you'll see more with our upgraded intake vs stock so it's something to consider. Being this is a supercharged platform, everything you can do to help get air into the charger is a big plus.

Including holes in the hood


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Vogz]

Although aftermarket filters like k&n flow better they have horrible filtering capacity as you saw in the link I posted. The roc euro is good because it has a better flowing tube and less restrictive filter= more "cold" air. An intake tube will make the air flow more smoothly too. Thats why I combine ecode intake tube with the oem filter. Smoother flowing air into the supercharger with a filter that does its job the best out of all the aftermarket one's. (filtering particle wise)

Horrible filtering capacity is a stretch. They obviously do a good enough job to keep engines from wearing more quickly. IIRC, the K&N let through 3% more dirt than the best paper filter. THREE PERCENT!! HORRIBLE lol

[Vogz]

Including holes in the hood


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah, Skywagon....how we miss thee....

[iant]

Here is what I found out. I just did stage II upgrade last night without installing any high flow intake filter or after market intake. I noticed I was really choked up at mid to top end, I installed the AWE intake without the top of the air box installed. There is a whine but now the car can breath. I wouldn't spend all that money for CF unless you like the look. As for performance just a filter on a stick, so to speak, is good enough.

That's interesting.

Were you stage 1 previously or stock?

Did it feel it more choked up than before you got the stage 2 upgrade?

Was it an APR stage 2?

Many apologies for all the questions

[Rappydog]

One thing that always seems to get left out out of these intake discussions with regard to the stock intakes is noise pollution. Many countries have strict regulations that must be followed. The engineers are trying to balance power, gas mileage, sound reduction and room restrictions when designing an air intake. It ends up being a compromise of several considerations.

[Excelerate]

Our software doesn't require the intake at stage 2, so it's not absolutely necessary. However, if you want more power, you'll see more with our upgraded intake vs stock so it's something to consider. Being this is a supercharged platform, everything you can do to help get air into the charger is a big plus.

Exactly.