Preparing my car for track... which mods?

[teylix]

Hi guys. I've had my car a month now and already stage 2+'d and slowly itching to learn how to track my car. There are a few nice HDPE events coming up in late April/May in Michigan:

http://usaudimi.org/wp-content/uploa...-2015-ver1.pdf
http://www.grid.life/tickets-registration/

I'm guessing $300 is pretty standard fare for a weekend.

I haven't been to a track before, so I would sign up as a newbie. One thing I am planning on doing is getting a set of 19" rims and S-04 wheels next month. These are the wheels I'm getting:



I think that looks sexy as hell, but I'm not sure yet about getting a BO grille, plastidipping, or simply not bothering.

Which mods in order of importance would you do in preparation for tracking a car? I can only put so much money into every month. :P

Alu Kreuz?
Transmission mount?
Short shifter?
Coilovers (vogtland gt? or h&r springs?)
AMS cooling kit that's on GB right now?
Sway/stabilizer bars?
End links?
Rotors?
Ceramic brakes? (Hawk?)
Something else?

I also have a modified Tiburon (coilovers, I/H/E, wheels, supercharger, etc.) and while it looks great low to the ground... driving around on michigan roads is CRAP. potholes + coilovers = unhappy driver. i must say i'm enjoying the civilized drive with the audi although it does feel a bit floaty during turns. Since the Audi is now my DD, I would like a good balance between drivability and track-ability.

[Waaazooo]

The first thing you should do is get a helmet. Then you should flush your brake fluid for a high temp (motul or awe). Go do your event, let your skills build up to the level of your car.

Later as your skill level improves and you have the driver mod done. Then worry about sways, brake pads, and tires. Most performance cars are out of the box better than 90% of their drivers.


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[AudiA4Style]

The first thing you should do is get a helmet. Then you should flush your brake fluid for a high temp (motul or awe). Go do your event, let your skills build up to the level of your car.

Later as your skill level improves and you have the driver mod done. Then worry about sways, brake pads, and tires. Most performance cars are out of the box better than 90% of their drivers.


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What tires are you planning on using? For your first track day, you don't need any of that and still have a blast. Then if you decide that it's something you really want to get into, you can get SS brake lines, performance pads and high temperature resistant fluid and a good set of tires.

Just remember to stay within your limits for your first time on a track and HAVE FUN!

[drob23]

Go check the Michigan thread for more info on that event. I went last year and had a blast.

[iceboss23]

Hi guys. I've had my car a month now and already stage 2+'d and slowly itching to learn how to track my car. There are a few nice HDPE events coming up in late April/May in Michigan:

http://usaudimi.org/wp-content/uploa...-2015-ver1.pdf
http://www.grid.life/tickets-registration/

I'm guessing $300 is pretty standard fare for a weekend.

I haven't been to a track before, so I would sign up as a newbie. One thing I am planning on doing is getting a set of 19" rims and S-04 wheels next month. These are the wheels I'm getting:



I think that looks sexy as hell, but I'm not sure yet about getting a BO grille, plastidipping, or simply not bothering.

Which mods in order of importance would you do in preparation for tracking a car? I can only put so much money into every month. :P

Alu Kreuz?
Transmission mount?
Short shifter?
Coilovers (vogtland gt? or h&r springs?)
AMS cooling kit that's on GB right now?
Sway/stabilizer bars?
End links?
Rotors?
Ceramic brakes? (Hawk?)
Something else?

I also have a modified Tiburon (coilovers, I/H/E, wheels, supercharger, etc.) and while it looks great low to the ground... driving around on michigan roads is CRAP. potholes + coilovers = unhappy driver. i must say i'm enjoying the civilized drive with the audi although it does feel a bit floaty during turns. Since the Audi is now my DD, I would like a good balance between drivability and track-ability.

Welcome to the addiction. From top to bottom according to my experience.

$300 for a full weekend (8+ sessions) is pretty darn good. Generally you get what you pay for though so be certain to stand up for yourself when it comes to your comfort level with your instructor. A good instructor-student relationship will make a weekend while the converse will easily ruin it.

As far as mods for tracking I fully agree with what Waaazooo said and you'll find that most experienced track enthusiasts will too. That said:

Alu Kreuz? Definite improvement over stock but really only noticeable at the limits. Probably worth the money.

Transmission mount? I havent noticed a significant difference but at the low cost probably worth it as well.

Short shifter? DSG here so dunno.

Coilovers (vogtland gt? or h&r springs?) ADS here so cant speak intelligently to this but lowering for the sake of lowering isnt going to net you anything on track. Get a properly engineered set for the car and you may see some improvement in body roll and lap times.

AMS cooling kit that's on GB right now? In your neck of the woods probably less important but if you have a couple grand burning a hole in your pocket it will help on hot days and overall durability.

Sway/stabilizer bars? One of the most important mods for the track. EC USS is pretty sweet but any of the big names in suspension have good reviews. It will be hard to know which to get unless you figure out how YOU drive YOUR car the way it is.

End links? Part of the sway setup... get em

Rotors? Ceramic brakes? (Hawk?) Brakes are the single weakest part on this car. There are literally dozens of threads and hundreds of posts on this subject and I highly recommend doing proper research before making any decision. Long story short 4000Lb car with single piston caliper and no cooling whatsoever is a bad recipe.

Something else? There are many ways of improving this car but ultimately if you accept from the beginning that this is a great daily driver that is very competent on the track but nothing more you will be happy. The minute you think you can start competing with purpose built track cars is the moment you need to get a new car.

Bottom line is the single most important mod you can spend money on is right between your ears. Do some reading, Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley is one of the best I've read but there are tons of resources out there. Join your Audi club and associated forums and get to know people who run on your local tracks and learn from them. And get on track with a good instructor. Modding your car before you have a clue what it feels like at the limit will not be nearly as enjoyable as progressively feeling what each mod does when you know what you're doing.

Enjoy and welcome to the club

[Waaazooo]

I forgot that some of the s4's came with all seasons (conti dws are better than many uhp tires). A great set of inexpensive tires for track duty try the federal 595rsr


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[joewhy2k]

Go and get in on the group buy for the AMS Boost Cooler.

[teylix]

The first thing you should do is get a helmet. Then you should flush your brake fluid for a high temp (motul or awe). Go do your event, let your skills build up to the level of your car.

Later as your skill level improves and you have the driver mod done. Then worry about sways, brake pads, and tires. Most performance cars are out of the box better than 90% of their drivers.


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Yeah was definitely planning on a helmet especially since I saw rental fees at $40!

What tires are you planning on using? For your first track day, you don't need any of that and still have a blast. Then if you decide that it's something you really want to get into, you can get SS brake lines, performance pads and high temperature resistant fluid and a good set of tires.

Just remember to stay within your limits for your first time on a track and HAVE FUN!

Messed up the nomenclature. I plan on getting the 19" wheels in the pic and Bridgestone S-04 tires.

Go check the Michigan thread for more info on that event. I went last year and had a blast.

Yeah I read up. That's what got me interested!

Welcome to the addiction. From top to bottom according to my experience.

$300 for a full weekend (8+ sessions) is pretty darn good. Generally you get what you pay for though so be certain to stand up for yourself when it comes to your comfort level with your instructor. A good instructor-student relationship will make a weekend while the converse will easily ruin it.

As far as mods for tracking I fully agree with what Waaazooo said and you'll find that most experienced track enthusiasts will too. That said:

Alu Kreuz? Definite improvement over stock but really only noticeable at the limits. Probably worth the money.

Transmission mount? I havent noticed a significant difference but at the low cost probably worth it as well.

Short shifter? DSG here so dunno.

Coilovers (vogtland gt? or h&r springs?) ADS here so cant speak intelligently to this but lowering for the sake of lowering isnt going to net you anything on track. Get a properly engineered set for the car and you may see some improvement in body roll and lap times.

AMS cooling kit that's on GB right now? In your neck of the woods probably less important but if you have a couple grand burning a hole in your pocket it will help on hot days and overall durability.

Sway/stabilizer bars? One of the most important mods for the track. EC USS is pretty sweet but any of the big names in suspension have good reviews. It will be hard to know which to get unless you figure out how YOU drive YOUR car the way it is.

End links? Part of the sway setup... get em

Rotors? Ceramic brakes? (Hawk?) Brakes are the single weakest part on this car. There are literally dozens of threads and hundreds of posts on this subject and I highly recommend doing proper research before making any decision. Long story short 4000Lb car with single piston caliper and no cooling whatsoever is a bad recipe.

Something else? There are many ways of improving this car but ultimately if you accept from the beginning that this is a great daily driver that is very competent on the track but nothing more you will be happy. The minute you think you can start competing with purpose built track cars is the moment you need to get a new car.

Bottom line is the single most important mod you can spend money on is right between your ears. Do some reading, Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley is one of the best I've read but there are tons of resources out there. Join your Audi club and associated forums and get to know people who run on your local tracks and learn from them. And get on track with a good instructor. Modding your car before you have a clue what it feels like at the limit will not be nearly as enjoyable as progressively feeling what each mod does when you know what you're doing.

Enjoy and welcome to the club

Amazing reply. Thanks so much for the detailed response. I was kind of leaning towards either Alu Kreuz or the sway bar setup but seems like the sway bar setup takes precedent. Brakes might take high priority also because the ones I have now.. SQUEAK like a mofo in the cold.

I forgot that some of the s4's came with all seasons (conti dws are better than many uhp tires). A great set of inexpensive tires for track duty try the federal 595rsr


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I'm not sure I'm going to track enough where I start having a set of track tires. I'm already planning on running snow tires on my 18" oems and the bridgestone s-04 on the 19"s pictured above.

[bpang1]

To me, setting up for a track event is more about making sure your car survives then just making it go faster...if that makes any sense.

The parts that tend to get stressed the most on-track are tires and brakes.

Max Performance Summer tires are fine for a track day but they will start dieing a lot faster than a set of race rubber will. By dieing I mean they will start chunking or melting down sooner because they were meant more for spirited driving and less for prolonged abuse.

Brakes will also overheat quickly. Especially our cars being that they are heavy and have a pretty big front bias.

Here's my list:
1. Helmet (a nice comfy one with the newest possible Snell rating so you won't have to buy another for a while)
2. Race Rubber...your choice, check Tire Rack and other sources for best set in your price range.
3. Brake Fluid...I prefer Motul or Ate.

Everything else I would spend on more HPDEs or track days until you truly learn what you want. A lot of times, people find out that some mods are worthless or what forums have said to do their cars are very much wrong.

[Chandler]

Go and get in on the group buy for the AMS Boost Cooler.

Don't buy the cooler just to start off. You will not see much benifit until you learn the limits of your car and even then I would wait until you have have added a stage 2 tune/ kit.

best bang for your buck in order:
Seat time
Track Pads/ Big Brake Kit
Track tires/ Wheels
Maybe a stabilizer depending on the track and speeds.
Some sort of harness/ other safety features? I like being strapped in tight, I feel the car better and am more responsive.
Tinted windows (just kidding)
If you have ADS, don't buy coilovers. suspension would be a waste of money unless you REALLY know what you are doing.
Then get a stage 2 tune.

[s6sputnik]

ZERO mods, make sure you wheels are torqued, brake fluid and pads are new and the helmet is SA2010 or SA2015.

Listen, watch, learn...

You are no where near capable of your car yet, no need to push the car too much further out for you!

Mike Fisher is fantastic and you would learn a lot with that group at Grattan!! Skip the time attack for now IMHO!!!

[MYFASTA4]

The first thing you should do is get a helmet. Then you should flush your brake fluid for a high temp (motul or awe). Go do your event, let your skills build up to the level of your car.

Later as your skill level improves and you have the driver mod done. Then worry about sways, brake pads, and tires. Most performance cars are out of the box better than 90% of their drivers.


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I haven't been to the track in a while but I agree with waazoo. This is what I would do if you want to have something faster before going I would look at tires (maybe a dedicated set) , sways , springs or coils and brakes before a getting a tune. Always been scare of adding power and not having the tools to handle it.

[paul]

For your first track event... go with a mostly stock car. If you want some reassurance, then track pads, and full brake fluid flush with something like Motul RBF600.

Learn to drive the car as it is. Once you have a few events under your belt then upgrades will make more sense as you'll have a better sense of what works for you. Also it's good to see how much faster you're getting based on driving and not equipment. Always easy (although not cheap) to buy faster lap times to a point.

[paul]

ZERO mods, make sure you wheels are torqued, brake fluid and pads are new and the helmet is SA2010 or SA2015.

Listen, watch, learn...

You are no where near capable of your car yet, no need to push the car too much further out for you!

Mike Fisher is fantastic and you would learn a lot with that group at Grattan!! Skip the time attack for now IMHO!!!

Exactly! SA2015 helmets aren't available yet. 2010 are plentiful and some reasonably cheap. No worries about buying one and having to replace it in 5 years... if the liner doesn't come out you'll replace it due to age/use in 5 years anyway.

[Waaazooo]

Oh crap... Something we ALL forgot... As many times I've been to the track;duh, You need (seriously) is an accurate tire pressure gauge.


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[drob23]

I just re-read the OP, and you definitely want to go to the Audi club event at Grattan. You will be instructed by top notch instructors who take safety very seriously, and Mike Fisher's group in particular is very organized. They will deal quickly with ego issues and keep things safe.

I can't say the same thing for gridlife, a car show/drift show/hpde doesn't sound like where I'd want to take my 50k car for the first HPDE. It's up to you of course, the demograph will obviously be different. Gingerman is a much less technical track, very flat and very harsh on tires. Turns 2 and 10 are pretty much tire killers. Grattan has much more interesting sections, and a bigger straight away. I also killed my brake pads at Gingerman. I like how open Gingerman feels with run offs, but Grattan is pretty much a better track in every other sense. Grattan is where Ford tuned the Boss 302 FWIW.

Regarding mods, I think you absolutely should flush your brake fluid with high temp fluid like rbf600, and put on some aftermarket pads. I would recommend you go all out and get some carbotech pads, at the very least xp12's up front (ideally xp20's). If you are still on stock rubber, they likely won't hold up. PSS or better tires are ideal. But not worth it to start buying new tires if your old ones are still OK.

I'm pretty much 90% going to the grattan event, so hope to see you there!

[drob23]

The first thing you should do is get a helmet. Then you should flush your brake fluid for a high temp (motul or awe). Go do your event, let your skills build up to the level of your car.

Later as your skill level improves and you have the driver mod done. Then worry about sways, brake pads, and tires. Most performance cars are out of the box better than 90% of their drivers.


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I would normally agree with you, but with this car, I think the brakes are a serious safety issue, even at the beginner level HPDE. I went off track during my second event, and would have crashed the car if not for a gravel pit. This is with EBC yellow stuff and fresh motul DOT 5.1. Pads were on fire and had to be replaced right after this.

[Waaazooo]

I would normally agree with you, but with this car, I think the brakes are a serious safety issue, even at the beginner level HPDE. I went off track during my second event, and would have crashed the car if not for a gravel pit. This is with EBC yellow stuff and fresh motul DOT 5.1. Pads were on fire and had to be replaced right after this.

Thank you for the correction. Glad you made it out without injury... I've never used ebc pads only Carbotech and hawk mostly.



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[Waaazooo]

You handled that with ease and grace.


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[Maitre Absolut]

Forget the S04s. You will learn much more with your stock tires.

You won't get near the limits of adhesion with some ultra sticky S04s and they will hide your mistakes.

Damp conditions are even better to learn on

[drob23]

Thank you for the correction. Glad you made it out without injury... I've never used ebc pads only Carbotech and hawk mostly.

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Thanks for the kind words. Yea, I was pretty lucky, pretty unbelievable when I think about it. Didn't even have track insurance at the time

Keep in mind that this is an example of what *could* happen, not what necessarily *will*. This track (Waterford Hills) is extremely hard on brakes, and low speeds do not lend to good airflow to cool rotors. There are plenty of people here who have done fine with stock brake fluid/pads. But after experiencing what I did, I will always tell people with this car to invest in proper fluid and track pads. Car is just too large, and beginners like me are probably over braking and not braking hard enough (since light braking injects more heat into the brake system).

[anerbe]

Thanks for the kind words. Yea, I was pretty lucky, pretty unbelievable when I think about it. Didn't even have track insurance at the time

Keep in mind that this is an example of what *could* happen, not what necessarily *will*. This track (Waterford Hills) is extremely hard on brakes, and low speeds do not lend to good airflow to cool rotors. There are plenty of people here who have done fine with stock brake fluid/pads. But after experiencing what I did, I will always tell people with this car to invest in proper fluid and track pads. Car is just too large, and beginners like me are probably over braking and not braking hard enough (since light braking injects more heat into the brake system).

I was about to post after seeing that sound wall - the Waterford Hills end of the straight!

In my track prepped e46M, I was battling it out with a 98 Viper GTS there. He held me up in the technical areas, then pulled away just enough on the straight where I would catch up and stick on his bumper 2 turns later for another lap. He never allowed me to pass even after getting flagged. Normally, I take it easy on the turn before the straight, as I've been a witness to multiple wall crashes. I got aggravated and decided to carry more speed into the right hander before the straight, where I was right on his ass going down the straight with no pass by. He completely missed his brake point, locked up all 4, and went into a smokey spin before flying off into that gravel. The memories....

From my point of view, the brakes do suck on this car for track, but as a first time, he'll be just fine as long as everything is done in moderation. I recommend to save the brakes by not hammering down the full length of the straight for a panic stop at the end. The most fun part of the track are the turns, especially the bowl and off camber right turn immediately following at Grattan. As long at the OP doesn't get his ego in the way and decides to race other vehicles (temptation is greatest when trying to prevent a lesser car from passing), he should have a lot of fun in stock form with smooth inputs. Being conservative on the speed/brakes allows more setup time for a turn and understanding of proper turn in lines. If a novice is focusing all on slowing down the vehicle after the straight to avoid going off, they miss the proper turn in almost all the time.

Once the driver feels comfortable with the overall fell of driving on the track, I totally agree that the brakes should be upgraded to push it a bit harder on the straights while having more consistent brake performance. Your video does prove that even basic brake upgrades are not enough for this car.

[drob23]

I was about to post after seeing that sound wall - the Waterford Hills end of the straight!

In my track prepped e46M, I was battling it out with a 98 Viper GTS there. He held me up in the technical areas, then pulled away just enough on the straight where I would catch up and stick on his bumper 2 turns later for another lap. He never allowed me to pass even after getting flagged. Normally, I take it easy on the turn before the straight, as I've been a witness to multiple wall crashes. I got aggravated and decided to carry more speed into the right hander before the straight, where I was right on his ass going down the straight with no pass by. He completely missed his brake point, locked up all 4, and went into a smokey spin before flying off into that gravel. The memories....

From my point of view, the brakes do suck on this car for track, but as a first time, he'll be just fine as long as everything is done in moderation. I recommend to save the brakes by not hammering down the full length of the straight for a panic stop at the end. The most fun part of the track are the turns, especially the bowl and off camber right turn immediately following at Grattan. As long at the OP doesn't get his ego in the way and decides to race other vehicles (temptation is greatest when trying to prevent a lesser car from passing), he should have a lot of fun in stock form with smooth inputs. Being conservative on the speed/brakes allows more setup time for a turn and understanding of proper turn in lines. If a novice is focusing all on slowing down the vehicle after the straight to avoid going off, they miss the proper turn in almost all the time.

Waterford just seems like a dangerous track. In addition to me going off, a C6 gran sport went off into gravel at turn 1 during the same session. Then when I watched the final intermediate run group, a 370Z did 3 spins getting onto the front straight after some nasty lift throttle oversteer. No cars were damaged The event organizer (BMW Motor City) was almost shaking by that point.

Agreed that it can be done on stock brakes. I have some driving experience at work, and in general push my car pretty hard. Grattan is a more forgiving track for sure, especially while trying to connect all the technical sections. You can easily lift on the straight to be nice on your brake system. Also, can brake going into the hill before the technical section at turn 6, while the fast approach is to brake after weight settles once you're over the hill.

But getting your fluid flushed is usually required by car clubs, and can be part of any tech inspection, which you should do regardless of whether it's required (BMWCCA + Porsche CCA seem to require it, Audi ACNA not so much). I'd say race fluid is necessary. But that's my opinion which is clearly dictated by my unfortunate experience

[Shimmy]

buy my Alcon bbk

[Sales@DriveAuto]

$300 is a great price for a weekend of running with instruction.

If it's your first time on the track, buy a good (Longacre or similar) tire pressure gauge, a good torque wrench, and a helmet sock (primarily if you're renting, some of them can be on the smelly side). If you envision yourself doing this more frequently, a good helmet might be worth it. GO TO/BUY FROM A STORE WHERE YOU CAN TRY THEM ON. You would be surprised at the different fits and field of vision some of them have.

Car wise: Assuming you at least have all season tires (not snows), they will be fine for your first event. Summer tires would be a good upgrade at some point; most track events will not allow novices to use R-comps or Hoosiers from the beginning. Flush your brake fluid with a good, track specific fluid (RBF600; I personally use Wilwood EXP600). If your stock pads have good life on them, they will be fine for the first time - you can upgrade to something better later on. I've seen ceramic/low dust pads glaze at the track; you're better off with a stock set. You need nothing else.

Take the stock car there, see what it will do, and remember that track events are about making YOU a better driver, not making the car a better performer. Have fun, be safe, and listen to your instructor.

TL;DR: Tire pressure gauge, torque wrench, helmet sock/helmet, high-temp brake fluid, open mind.

[drob23]

$300 is a great price for a weekend of running with instruction.

If it's your first time on the track, buy a good (Longacre or similar) tire pressure gauge, a good torque wrench, and a helmet sock (primarily if you're renting, some of them can be on the smelly side). If you envision yourself doing this more frequently, a good helmet might be worth it. GO TO/BUY FROM A STORE WHERE YOU CAN TRY THEM ON. You would be surprised at the different fits and field of vision some of them have.

I was surprised with how hard it was to do this. None of the stores local to me stock helmets anymore. Said people were coming in, trying on, and then ordering for better prices online. With that said, the basic helmets aren't priced very high. Good to own one, useful for autoX etc.

The amount of money you throw down for these events starts to grow quickly - 300 reg, 200 hotel, 200 gas, brake pads/tires, ~250 Lockton hpde insurance, 60 in gas to get there/back, 60 tech inspection. So not really a good penny pinching hobby

[ptper]

Said people were coming in, trying on, and then ordering for better prices online.

Yeah, I could have gone that route too, but decided to reward/incentivize the local shop for stocking and allowing me to try on. Paid a little more, but it's ok.

The amount of money you throw down for these events starts to grow quickly - 300 reg, 200 hotel, 200 gas, brake pads/tires, ~250 Lockton hpde insurance, 60 in gas to get there/back, 60 tech inspection. So not really a good penny pinching hobby

This. Will be my first time, so I hope it'll be worth it (or not, so I can save some money in the future!)

[Waaazooo]

I bought my helmet from a motorcycle store (not a HD store)


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[littleredwagen]

As others have said, pads and fluid at most, leave the rest alone. I have tracked the car on the stock suspension and it felt surprisingly good. much better than B5, and B6 I had before this. Go learn and mod yourself and then mod the car.

[A4 Centaur]

^ Good info and the changes in this respect will allow you to use the car safely and remain in control. This would be the minimum besides a good helmet.

[AudiA4Style]

I pay $150-190 for track days plus $20 for a transponder. But no instructor.

I'm not familiar with that track but I'll doubt you'll be able to drive the car to its limits. Even the stock brakes. On my first track day, I could've been driving a Toyota Camry and the results would've probably been the same. Once you get the hang of things, you'd be surprised with how capable our be can be at the track stock with just a good set of tires. At ACS a couple of weekends ago I was on pace or just a few seconds behind friends with full track cars.

For your first event. Don't worry about the car and don't get caught up with lap times. Just try to learn the lines, braking points, etc. Just try to be as smooth as possible. Speed and fast lap times will come as a result. Remember. Slow in, fast out.

Do recommend getting a tire pressure gauge if you already have one and check your hot tire pressure as soon as you get off the track. I like to keep mine at 37psi hot.

[ENV²]

-High temp brake fluid
-Stainless lines
-Full tank of gas
-Helmet
-Good tire depth
-Good brake pads and rotors.


I pushed the hell out of my car at first track event and learned that it def needs lines and high temp brake fluid. Everytime I came off the track after a 20 min run and drove around the corral, brake pedal was hitting the floor.

[BillyG]

Another vote for high temp brake fluid. On my first outing in my S4 last year I boiled my brake fluid on day two (stock rotors and pads), and missed a couple of sessions while my instructor and I bled them.

Eurocode sways and end links are an amazing upgrade, when I get my new car that's the first thing I'll do.

Enjoy, track days are a blast! And yes, expensive but worth it.

[paul]

-High temp brake fluid
-Stainless lines
-Full tank of gas
-Helmet
-Good tire depth
-Good brake pads and rotors.


I pushed the hell out of my car at first track event and learned that it def needs lines and high temp brake fluid. Everytime I came off the track after a 20 min run and drove around the corral, brake pedal was hitting the floor.

That's fluid cooking not lines. People often equate pedal feel to lines and although it may provide some improvement, it's overcooked fluid that causes the pedal feel to really suffer. Most people go "omg the pedal feels so much better" after swapping lines, but most of those people who swap lines also flush the fluid at the same time. Fresh good fluid will provide the biggest change in pedal feel.