Basic E85 Single Turbo Build

[Congratulati0ns]

Hey everyone. It’s another STK build, I know, I know. I’ve had my S4 since ’09 and pretty much stage 2 for the entire time. Started collecting parts for this build over the summer. It’s nothing flashy or crazy as I am on a tight budget due to flight school. I tried my best to buy good quality parts for the most part. I plan to run the car on E85 and only E85. The two things that I wish I had funds for are a girdle and fueling, unfortunately I don’t. For the time being I just want to enjoy the car and I’ll take whatever we can get out of this setup. All of the work is done by me, aside from machine work on the heads. The motor is put together for the most part. I am still waiting on a few parts here and there. Photos posted here are whatever I could find over the last couple of months, and I will update as the build progresses. The plan is to have this thing together and running by April-May, will see. Advice, opinions, questions and tips are all welcome guys. Thanks for looking!


Block: BF from a 2001
Pistons: Stock
Rods: RPM H-Beam
Heads: Fully refreshed stock 2.8 heads, Supertech exhaust valves
Headgaskets: Stock with ARP head studs
Intake Manifold + TB: Stock late Intake, stock TB
Injectors: EV14 Bosch 1000cc
MAF: VMP HPX 5000
Coils: TFSI Coil conversion with custom adapters
Exhaust: Open downpipe until broken in and tuned, then custom 3”
Clutch: Southbend Stage 3 Endurance with AWE Flywheel
Trans: 4:1 center diff
Manifolds: 2.8 V6
Catch Can: Mike Norris Motorsports Catch Can
Pump: Walbro 485 Drop In
A/R: AEM
Fuel Rails: Stock
Tune: Most likely Daz


Turbo kit: Full 034 STK
Turbo: Precision 6266 .82Ar (Journal)
Intercooler: Treadstone TR1235 w/ 3” IC piping
BOV: Tial 50mm
Intake: Cone/Mesh on turbo

Other Things:

Timing belt kit and all new seals/gaskets/etc
034 Motorsport track density engine mounts
034 Motorsport track density trans mounts
VW Coolant Tank

Already on car:

BBS CH 18x8.5 (245/40/18)
BFI Rear sway bar with Hotchkiss brackets
H&R Front sway bar
ST Coilovers
OEM B6 USP Steering Wheel
OEM B5 RS4 Shift Knob
B6/B7 S4 Front Brakes
JHM Short Shifter
Bolt in roll bar
Early A4 “Euro” trunk
Cupra Lip
AEM Boost gauge
Valentine 1

Some mods that I would like to do down the road, once the car is running and I enjoy it:

Most importantly – Fueling - 034 rails, lines, surge tank etc
Rear LSD
Better coilover setup
Seats and harnesses
17z brakes setup

































Not bad for POR-15 and a brush

[Dalers08]

Finally you made a build thread!

Clutch: Southbend Stage 3 Endurance with AWE Flywheel

That won't hold for long haha.

Turbo: Precision 6266 .82Ar (Journal)

You went with the 6266? I thought it was the 6262.


Too bad it will still get walked by an E85 K04 car...

[Congratulati0ns]

Finally you made a build thread!

Clutch: Southbend Stage 3 Endurance with AWE Flywheel

That won't hold for long haha.

Turbo: Precision 6266 .82Ar (Journal)

You went with the 6266? I thought it was the 6262.


Too bad it will still get walked by an E85 K04 car...

Yea finally got around to making one !

Hopefully it will hold through the summer lol.

I'm sure we will test that theory, multiple times =]

[S4 Big Head]

Oh hai Matt!

[Monty23]

That turbo is going to feel lazy with a 7200 rpm redline. You really need the extra 1000 rpm to keep from falling out of boost after shifts. Seriously consider doing valve springs too or move down to a 5858.

Good luck with everything and feel free to ask me any questions you have.

[Meow]

Looks slow.


+1 on doing valve springs, revving to 8k is silly amounts of fun.

[topquarkpc]

congratulations.
love it.

[bigern45]

basic?? thread title is misleading...

[julex]

haha, thought the same..... basic single eh?

[E36 Hater]

Finally a thread, can't wait for you to finish this build and we get some kills on film :)

sent from merica using f yeah!

[AudiTechS4]

? on the valve springs guys , so to run it out to 8k that all you need for valve train ?
I already had the whole bottom end balanced after rods went in

[Monty23]

The stock exhaust valves are hollow (sodium-filled) which can break at high rpm. You should really install aftermarket exhaust valves and then you will need a valve spring kit to keep from floating valves. I run my car up to 8250-8500 rpm.

[AudiTechS4]

Ok thats kind of what i was wondering . I didnt know if the exhaust valves could handle it .

[Meow]

I run stock valves to 8k.

Sodium filled ones are nice for other reasons ... :)

[christianb5s4]

The stock exhaust valves are hollow (sodium-filled) which can break at high rpm. You should really install aftermarket exhaust valves and then you will need a valve spring kit to keep from floating valves. I run my car up to 8250-8500 rpm.

Holy cow, 8500rpm must sound epic.

[Congratulati0ns]

Oh hai Matt!

Hai buddy

That turbo is going to feel lazy with a 7200 rpm redline. You really need the extra 1000 rpm to keep from falling out of boost after shifts. Seriously consider doing valve springs too or move down to a 5858.

Good luck with everything and feel free to ask me any questions you have.

I wish I could but with the current budget I can't really spring it. I forgot to list it as a future mod but it is definitely on my list. I'll give this setup a shot and worse case ill drop it down to something smaller, like a 5858 (at least I won't have to pull the motor to do that haha). Thanks for the advice, ill definitely shoot you a message if I get stuck with anything. Love your build btw !

congratulations.
love it.

Appreciate it, thanks!

basic?? thread title is misleading...

haha, thought the same..... basic single eh?

Lol I guess what I meant by basic is that it isn't anything fancy or record breaking, just a 2.7 with rods, e85 and a STK. Comparing it to some of the builds on here, it isn't much but it's perfect for my needs.

Finally a thread, can't wait for you to finish this build and we get some kills on film :)

sent from merica using f yeah!

yeshh

[Jake@JHM]

Looks like a fun build!

[Monty23]

I run stock valves to 8k.

Sodium filled ones are nice for other reasons ... :)

Inconel>sodium filled

[Meow]

I would upgrade valve springs and retainers any time an oem 2.7t head is open, the stock springs are weal and crappy. Well worth the piece of mind for the cost of springs and retainers.

You are better off spending the money on springs and retainers than 2.8 heads and new valves. Since you need new valves anyway as you can not use 2.8 valves on a boosted 2.7 because of the different retainer location which reduces seating pressure which is really not advisable on any motor seeing boost pressure. I really think its a waste of time and money to rebuild heads with oem springs unless it's going on a stage 2 car, and even then it should be an easy "while im in there" even with k03s...

[julex]

Anybody has a real concrete example of stock sodium valve dropped strictly due to weakness of its stem and not due to massive float and piston collision? E.g. a valve that cleanly cracked in half and has straight stem/neck vs one that clearly had a bend neck/stem due to piston collision?

People think that stock valves are weak due to friction weld as they think that weld is somewhere on the bottom of valve, but they don't realize that the valve is one piece and drilled from top and only the very top hardened tip is welded on to close the cavity... coincidentally even solid valves also have this weld as they also need hardened tip

I guess I am asking as you rarely see people running stock valves + uprated springs (like me), it is usually upgraded springs+solid valves or folks revving/overrevving stock valvetrain on stock springs and bitching when valve floats and gets a kiss of death.

Anyway, revving on stock valves + ferrea exhaust springs and titanium retainers to 8.3k without any issues on 93oct, well maybe that I might occasionally see EGT enriching since it is hitting around 950C in there on extended pulls. Perhaps this is why I haven't killed my valves yet, people remove EGT sensors and wonder when their valves burn and fail...

[Meow]

Also pick up a pmas hpx maf, it is more linear than the vmp one.

[E36 Hater]

I would upgrade valve springs and retainers any time an oem 2.7t head is open, the stock springs are weal and crappy. Well worth the piece of mind for the cost of springs and retainers.

You are better off spending the money on springs and retainers than 2.8 heads and new valves. Since you need new valves anyway as you can not use 2.8 valves on a boosted 2.7 because of the different retainer location which reduces seating pressure which is really not advisable on any motor seeing boost pressure. I really think its a waste of time and money to rebuild heads with oem springs unless it's going on a stage 2 car, and even then it should be an easy "while im in there" even with k03s...

Plenty of people use fully stock heads making 600+, dont really see why you would build heads with k03's or k04's especially since the tq dropoff is massive, for the powerband he wanta and use that this car will be for his head setup will be more than adequate.

[Meow]

Plenty of people use fully stock heads making 600+, dont really see why you would build heads with k03's or k04's especially since the tq dropoff is massive, for the powerband he wanta and use that this car will be for his head setup will be more than adequate.

Because I have personally floated valves on my stock springs with k03s revving out to only 7200 or so. If the heads are off or coming apart, they should not go back together without upgraded springs. You might not need them for power, but to me, its a maintenance item. Springs fatigue and I would just hate to see someone go through all this work and then float a valve on stock springs when he starts to up the boost to 30psi. He will also feel the need to rev out to redline a lot because of the boost drop inbetween gears of larger turbos.

Lots of redline time + high boost + stock valve springs = recipe for valve float.

If he is spending the money for new oem valve springs, might as well get upgraded ones... putting new stock ones back is no bueno, and putting used stock ones in is even less bueno, and putting used 2.8 springs in is right out of the question! hahaha, but that is just my opinion on it.

I don't understand putting in upgraded valves and not upgraded springs.

[E36 Hater]

Because I have personally floated valves on my stock springs with k03s revving out to only 7200 or so. If the heads are off or coming apart, they should not go back together without upgraded springs. You might not need them for power, but to me, its a maintenance item. Springs fatigue and I would just hate to see someone go through all this work and then float a valve on stock springs when he starts to up the boost to 30psi. He will also feel the need to rev out to redline a lot because of the boost drop inbetween gears of larger turbos.

Lots of redline time + high boost + stock valve springs = recipe for valve float.

If he is spending the money for new oem valve springs, might as well get upgraded ones... putting new stock ones back is no bueno, and putting used stock ones in is even less bueno, and putting used 2.8 springs in is right out of the question! hahaha, but that is just my opinion on it.

I don't understand putting in upgraded valves and not upgraded springs.

The reason you floated valves is because you were reving k03's to 7k+ everyone knows the less torque you make in the rev range the longer you are in that period, now you are sitting at 6k for a longer duration and it shows the weakness, the more torque and hp you make 5k rpm plus the less time you soend in the rev range.

In the bmw forced induction community we see this issue 10 fold, stock naturally aspirated s50's valve float and drop valves all day, but when boosted the stock heads are much more reliable because the time spent in the "danger rpm zone" is much less.

[Meow]

The reason you floated valves is because you were reving k03's to 7k+ everyone knows the less torque you make in the rev range the longer you are in that period, now you are sitting at 6k for a longer duration and it shows the weakness, the more torque and hp you make 5k rpm plus the less time you soend in the rev range.

In the bmw forced induction community we see this issue 10 fold, stock naturally aspirated s50's valve float and drop valves all day, but when boosted the stock heads are much more reliable because the time spent in the "danger rpm zone" is much less.

Having a known weakness and a danger zone on a motor you just spent a lot of time and money rebuilding sounds like a terrible idea.

[E36 Hater]

Having a known weakness and a danger zone on a motor you just spent a lot of time and money rebuilding sounds like a terrible idea.

Beating on ko3's to 7200rpm is evidently a worse idea as you valve float because it makes 240wtq with long gearing.

[Meow]

Beating on ko3's to 7200rpm is evidently a worse idea as you valve float because it makes 240wtq with long gearing.

Stock valve springs ftl! Replace them and never have to worry!


15psi at redline - k03s
30psi at redline - big single

hmmm, if they floated at 15psi, would you really want to risk 30psi? Even if you are there for less time, I would not take that risk.

[E36 Hater]

Dont compare 30psi on 6266 to 15psi on a ko3 the reason you valve floated is because of the time spent in the upper rev range. Misinformation is never a great thing to spread. Maybe you should read up on valve float and why it happens.

[Hyphy]

Congratulations on your build! What flight school are you attending? Local 61 school or an accredited 141 program? What are you currently working on?

[UkuRiSh]

Good Luck! +1 for valve spring upgrade....

[E36 Hater]

Good Luck! +1 for valve spring upgrade....

your single turbo build is sick, love the vids on the tube man.

[Meow]

Dont compare 30psi on 6266 to 15psi on a ko3 the reason you valve floated is because of the time spent in the upper rev range. Misinformation is never a great thing to spread. Maybe you should read up on valve float and why it happens.

I think you should listen to yourself and learn a bit more about valve float. Manifold pressure is a factor in valve float. Simple balance of forces on the valve will make you realize this. 30psi of manifold pressure on any turbo is 30psi on the back of the valve holding it open.

your theory of "you spend less time there" does not really work here, because you get upgraded valves so that you can manage higher EGT's without destroying the valve, you get these higher EGT's by spending more time at higher RPM, so... whats the point of getting these valves to spend more time at higher rpm if you don't also get spirngs to spend more time at higher rpm? I really do not see the point.

[E36 Hater]

I think you should listen to yourself and learn a bit more about valve float. Manifold pressure is a factor in valve float. Simple balance of forces on the valve will make you realize this. 30psi of manifold pressure on any turbo is 30psi on the back of the valve holding it open.

your theory of "you spend less time there" does not really work here, because you get upgraded valves so that you can manage higher EGT's without destroying the valve, you get these higher EGT's by spending more time at higher RPM, so... whats the point of getting these valves to spend more time at higher rpm if you don't also get spirngs to spend more time at higher rpm? I really do not see the point.

The main reason for not changing the springs is because as it sits it not need more than 7200-7500 rpm, it will be fun on the street. Gonna run out of fuel by 650ish for the time being.

you might have missed that this is a budget build, and OP has stated that he will upgrade to better valvesprings and other things in the future.

[Meow]

The main reason for not changing the springs is because as it sits it not need more than 7200-7500 rpm, it will be fun on the street. Gonna run out of fuel by 650ish for the time being.

you might have missed that this is a budget build, and OP has stated that he will upgrade to better valvesprings and other things in the future.

Hence why I am questiong doing this : "Heads: Fully refreshed stock 2.8 heads, Supertech exhaust valves" instead of valve springs. I am glad I mentioned not using 2.8 intake valves though! That could have been bad... lol

Side note, you are going to run out of fuel before 650 on stock fuel rails and lines on e85.

[viceprp]

BAT only hangs at high RPM for a very short period unless your are red lining 5/6th gears. EGT Temps will be higher on a screaming k03 that takes forever to hit 7200. That is a lot of hot air and is stupid for anyone to do.

I Rev my stock head to 7800 but I see a loss around 7k due to cams. No problems. This also has a lot to do with your tune as well. E85 will be much safer to run than 93.

[Meow]

Quick picture for reference, 2.7 vs 2.8 keeper height.

Dont use 2.8 valves when you put on the 2.8 head!

[christianb5s4]

BAT only hangs at high RPM for a very short period unless your are red lining 5/6th gears. EGT Temps will be higher on a screaming k03 that takes forever to hit 7200. That is a lot of hot air and is stupid for anyone to do.

I Rev my stock head to 7800 but I see a loss around 7k due to cams. No problems. This also has a lot to do with your tune as well. E85 will be much safer to run than 93.

So for those of us at stage 2 or 2+ on K03s, most tunes have the red-line set at 7K. Is this not advisable to rev it out then?

[viceprp]

K03'S die off well before 7k, you should b3 shifting in your powerband. Otherwise you will have a 7k shift drop down to 5000 and already be out of your powerband. I would shift at 6k at most. It just a bunch of hot air anyways.

[E36 Hater]

you are going to run out of fuel before 650 on stock fuel rails and lines on e85.

Quotes like this are why i love building cars.

BAT only hangs at high RPM for a very short period unless your are red lining 5/6th gears. EGT Temps will be higher on a screaming k03 that takes forever to hit 7200. That is a lot of hot air and is stupid for anyone to do.

I Rev my stock head to 7800 but I see a loss around 7k due to cams. No problems. This also has a lot to do with your tune as well. E85 will be much safer to run than 93.

This is what he doesnt want to understand, long 4th-5th pulls with k03's generate tons of heat, the heat fatigues the stock valve springs, as a mechanical engineer i figured meow would understand that more than anybody.

So for those of us at stage 2 or 2+ on K03s, most tunes have the red-line set at 7K. Is this not advisable to rev it out then?

No the problem is doing repeated long pulls in 4th-6th with high iats on pump gas. Romping on a turbo car with stock intercoolers and a hot day is not healthy.

Regardless, im pretty sure the OP will do his thing this spring, the tri state is looking like a gladiator arena this season with all the 600-700whp cars coming together.

[christianb5s4]

K03'S die off well before 7k, you should b3 shifting in your powerband. Otherwise you will have a 7k shift drop down to 5000 and already be out of your powerband. I would shift at 6k at most. It just a bunch of hot air anyways.

Definitely agree with you there, that's the issue I have with doing 3rd and 4th gear pulls. Running third to the limiter means I feel like I have no power once in 4th, obviously thanks to K03s not flowing up there.

This is what he doesnt want to understand, long 4th-5th pulls with k03's generate tons of heat, the heat fatigues the stock valve springs, as a mechanical engineer i figured meow would understand that more than anybody.

No the problem is doing repeated long pulls in 4th-6th with high iats on pump gas. Romping on a turbo car with stock intercoolers and a hot day is not healthy.

Regardless, im pretty sure the OP will do his thing this spring, the tri state is looking like a gladiator arena this season with all the 600-700whp cars coming together.

Definitely understood, I hope top end will be somewhat improved when I go E85 on the K03s and run that until swapping in some larger turbos later this year.