New S4 Owner with issues, oil leaks mostly

**richflath** · 02-20-2015 07:51 AM

First, I love this car! My previous was a 2001 Lexus GS400 which I loved too but the S4... World of difference!

It's an 04, Fast Intentions exhaust, lowered, drives like it's on rails!

I got it with 120k on it and it drove like a dream. No rattles, no noises. It's a weekend car, no rain, no snow.

But now the issues... :(

I never ever imagined how expensive this would be to repair. Since buying it 6 months ago I've dumped almost 4k into it. :( First tires, then a 4 wheel align, extra keys.

Last November I started to smell Anti-Freeze. Did research and confirmed, leaks where the plastic meets aluminum. Ok, I'll deal with that for now.

A few weeks later, oil burning smell. Valve cover gaskets leaking. :/ Hired an ex Audi tech and paid $440 for new gaskets. One problem resolved.

A few more weeks and suddenly car won't shift (auto) on it's own at times and throttle cuts out. Brake sensor.

I left it for the winter but got the bug to get it fixed. Took it to Elite Motorsports in Farmingdale.

Evidently the guy did a bad job on the VCGs and they were leaking again. So... VCGs, both radiators, brake sensor, belt, headlight washer pump, inspection, oil change and a few other odds and end.

Estimate... $3,300 :-o

I left out the washer pump and they agreed to $2,150 for everything else.

Get the car back, great! No more oil smell. Next morning, there's a puddle under the car. Bring it back to Elite, the Valley Pan gasket is now leaking. They recommend the oil filter housing be change at same time. Estimate? $1,200.

MY WIFE IS ABOUT TO LEAVE ME. I'm a self-employed off-season landscaper and this is just too much for my budget.

Now a question. I only put on 2-3k miles a year. Will it hurt the car to leave this leak until I can afford to fix it? I'll deal with the puddle in the driveway in some creative way for now.

It's either that or sell the car. :(

**blocke** · 02-20-2015 08:13 AM

Well you've put in 3k, about to be $4200 if you fix valley pan. That's about 50% of what the car is worth.
Sounds like you don't do any of the work yourself? That could save you quite a bit.
Keeping the car will inevitably be expensive.

**B72011** · 02-20-2015 08:34 AM

There's a few requirements to be a long term Audi driver--in no particular order.
1. Big fat $$ wallet
2. DIY wrenching skills w/ tool, time and patience to do it.
3. LUCK

Any combo of the above will work!
If ya cant muster #1--then 2 or 3 will do--if not---ya better sell it.

Originally Posted by richflath

First, I love this car! My previous was a 2001 Lexus GS400 which I loved too but the S4... World of difference!

It's an 04, Fast Intentions exhaust, lowered, drives like it's on rails!

I got it with 120k on it and it drove like a dream. No rattles, no noises. It's a weekend car, no rain, no snow.

But now the issues... :(

I never ever imagined how expensive this would be to repair. Since buying it 6 months ago I've dumped almost 4k into it. :( First tires, then a 4 wheel align, extra keys.

Last November I started to smell Anti-Freeze. Did research and confirmed, leaks where the plastic meets aluminum. Ok, I'll deal with that for now.

A few weeks later, oil burning smell. Valve cover gaskets leaking. :/ Hired an ex Audi tech and paid $440 for new gaskets. One problem resolved.

A few more weeks and suddenly car won't shift (auto) on it's own at times and throttle cuts out. Brake sensor.

I left it for the winter but got the bug to get it fixed. Took it to Elite Motorsports in Farmingdale.

Evidently the guy did a bad job on the VCGs and they were leaking again. So... VCGs, both radiators, brake sensor, belt, headlight washer pump, inspection, oil change and a few other odds and end.

Estimate... $3,300 :-o

I left out the washer pump and they agreed to $2,150 for everything else.

Get the car back, great! No more oil smell. Next morning, there's a puddle under the car. Bring it back to Elite, the Valley Pan gasket is now leaking. They recommend the oil filter housing be change at same time. Estimate? $1,200.

MY WIFE IS ABOUT TO LEAVE ME. I'm a self-employed off-season landscaper and this is just too much for my budget.

Now a question. I only put on 2-3k miles a year. Will it hurt the car to leave this leak until I can afford to fix it? I'll deal with the puddle in the driveway in some creative way for now.

It's either that or sell the car. :(

**richflath** · 02-20-2015 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by B72011

There's a few requirements to be a long term Audi driver--in no particular order.
1. Big fat $$ wallet
2. DIY wrenching skills w/ tool, time and patience to do it.
3. LUCK

Any combo of the above will work!
If ya cant muster #1--then 2 or 3 will do--if not---ya better sell it.

#1 Nope

#2 I am not incapable but I don't even have a garage.

#3 I was hoping for a lot of this one since my past cars came with it pre-installed. Considering I've only put about 700 miles on the car since I got it, evidently I got this one with a negative value in the one I was counting on the most.

I HATE the thought of selling this.

**blocke** · 02-20-2015 09:33 AM

Lol well you can be married and not broke, or single and owning a dying car, and be broke.

**SprintBlueWorld** · 02-20-2015 09:35 AM

Ive added a lot of tools to the box in the past year. A new racing jack (low enough to get under), multiple torx bit sets, ratchets, sensor bits. Oh and most recently a Super Deluxe Mini Ratchet tool all just to work on this car. That said I'm sure ive saved money DIY even with buying the tools and getting the jobs and mods done on my own terms than being at the mercy of outside help. I searched hard for a clean low milage car that maintenence would be my responsibily to keep up with, and my love for this car has made it expensive.
Unfortunately, by the sounds of things you have selected a high milage car that has not been kept up with, a limited budget, and no access to facilities to work on it. It's harsh, I know, but sounds like your gonna have even worse heartbreak trying to keep this one.

**richflath** · 02-20-2015 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by SprintBlueWorld

Unfortunately, by the sounds of things you have selected a high milage car that has not been kept up with, a limited budget, and no access to facilities to work on it. It's harsh, I know, but sounds like your gonna have even worse heartbreak trying to keep this one.

That's the thing. The car was owned by a mechanic for a foreign car dealership. The front end was already redone and when the first guy took off the VCG he said there was a brand new timing chain and guides in it. That of course does not say much else other than he fixed it as issues came up.

Every issue I've had is all over Audi forums as being common with this car. I am just astounded that a car as expensive as this was new could have so many common issues.

My GS400 had 110k when I sold it and after 5 years of driving it, never put a dime into it other than normal wear items and wheels/tires. So I bought this with the same thought... "What am I going to put on it, 2k a year maybe? How much could go wrong?"

Sure the S4 is a bit more high perf. but it's still not a super car. My 02 LS1 powered Firebird was just as fast as this car. Yet the Audi wants special anti-freeze, special WINDSHIELD WIPER FLUID???

If I put this last repair on it and felt I could get a few trouble free years, maybe 6k miles out of it, I'd find a way. Thing is, I don't feel all warm and fuzzy about the car right now.

Soooo yea... I got bitten and I'm feeling down about it. Sorry for the whining!

**SprintBlueWorld** · 02-20-2015 10:22 AM

Well hey, if the timing work is already done that's the worst of it. Vcg's go on a lot of cars and you had to do yours twice$. Much of the maintenance you listed can be DIY and many of the DIYers have improved on the factory status quo. Timing components are the ultimate challenge but had you been able to to the recent work yourself you would have saved at least a grande and probably more.
It could be you just have to get over this initial hump and then everything will be allrightt. Good luck going forward and may the recent repairs keep the car reliable.

**evildsmr** · 02-20-2015 11:21 AM

Well I know first hand the valley pan gaskets cab be done for about 200$ in parts. I've also done this job without a garage in just about 5 hours. 2.5 of them was meticulously cleaning the ish out of the engine bay and taking a part the intake manifold to clean all of the carbon gunk out. Its easy. IMHO. Just takes a couple torx bits. And also some new o rings and pintle caps for the injectors because they will break when you remove the fuel rail. Do the work yourself. Its very gratifying and also makes you (me) appreciate the car even more.

**Professor** · 02-20-2015 12:48 PM

I just found out that I have to do the Valley Pan gasket, Intake Manifold Gasket, and oil filter housing gasket on my car as well. ECS has a kit for $170.

http://www.ecstuning.com/News/Audi_B...Kit_2004_2005/

There really isn't any good info on the Valley Pan Gasket replacement after removing the intake manifold.. Is it pretty straight forward? Same thing with the Oil Filter Housing Gasket?

**blocke** · 02-20-2015 01:07 PM

How can you know the timing job has been done by just removing the Valve covers?

**Mr. Corey** · 02-20-2015 01:20 PM

If your not willing to spend time turning wrenches or dont have a PHAT wallet and Audi is not for you. All of your problems are super common on the S4 and are relatively cheap if you can fix them your self. If not....... its an expensive car to maintain... you have to be willing to spend some monies every year to keep it in tip top shape. The good thing about your valley pan gasket leaking is you can replace the 3 purge valves and throw some jhm intake mani spacers on maybe even a new mani.

**richflath** · 02-20-2015 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by blocke

How can you know the timing job has been done by just removing the Valve covers?

Guides had almost no wear at all on them and the chain was tight. He said if it was the original chain and guides, it would be obvious on a car with 126k on it.

**richflath** · 02-20-2015 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Corey

If your not willing to spend time turning wrenches or dont have a PHAT wallet and Audi is not for you. ...... its an expensive car to maintain... you have to be willing to spend some monies every year to keep it in tip top shape.

Yea so I am learning. I might go back to a Lexus as they're quite a bit easier to maintain. I never EVER thought I would say this about owning a Lexus but... cheaper too.

Originally Posted by Mr. Corey

The good thing about your valley pan gasket leaking is you can replace the 3 purge valves and throw some jhm intake mani spacers on maybe even a new mani.

I can't even afford to do what needs to be done now and you're throwing aftermarket parts at me. LOL

**SprintBlueWorld** · 02-20-2015 05:07 PM

I can't even afford to do what needs to be done now and you're throwing aftermarket parts at me. LOL

Its definitely a doable DIY bolt off bolt on time and care. This was the 2nd DIY I did on my car after I modified my air box. I used to try and work on American muscle cars and I was terrible at it. So much so that for years I decided I would never try to work on my own cars again, until this car, the internet, and audizine (and cuccaro garage.com). Now i worry any time i am forced to have anyone else touch it. With each DIY you save money, gain confidence, and pride in knowing you took the time to detail it out better than any shop would, and you just might be able to keep and enjoy your Audi.

**nross33** · 02-20-2015 05:13 PM

That seems high for the oil filter housing, I payed $700 installed at the Audi dealer.

**richflath** · 02-20-2015 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by nross33

That seems high for the oil filter housing, I payed $700 installed at the Audi dealer.

It's for the Valley Pan gaskets o-rings, etc AND oil filter housing.

**nross33** · 02-20-2015 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by richflath

It's for the Valley Pan gaskets o-rings, etc AND oil filter housing.

Oh okay then yep, that will do it.

**FormulaElement** · 02-20-2015 06:43 PM

Your Lexus had 10k less miles when you sold it. Im not quite sure why you think that buying a performance based car would be cheaper than arguably the most reliable car brand out there. Especially when it has more miles on it. Your Lexus would of start having problems too after a while, and their just as expensive if not more to fix than an Audi.

As others have said, being a DIYer is a must for an Audi, or a big wallet.

Audi's AWD and nice interior/exteriors are worth the premium cost to me, if you want that cheap interior and reliability, i would go back to a Lexus.

**richflath** · 02-20-2015 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by FormulaElement

and their just as expensive if not more to fix than an Audi.

A. I've seen GS400s with 350k on them an nothing but oil changes, timing chains and maybe a stray alternator.

B. I've owned a couple of Lexus models and while they are not cheap to fix, they are not as expensive as the Audi. They don't require special anti-freeze nor special windshield washer fluid to boot.

Originally Posted by FormulaElement

if you want that cheap interior and reliability, i would go back to a Lexus.

Cheap interior? Really? Have you ever ridden in a GS400? Cheap is def. not a word I'd associate with the inside of a Lexus.

You are mixing up my astonishment at the reliability and expense of owning an Audi with distaste for it. I do not dislike the S4. I LOVE THE S4 which I thought I made clear. My wife was blown away when she asked me two days ago which car I like more and I quite clearly told her, the S4. She thought I would never have a car I enjoyed more than the GS400.

I did not want this to be a Lexus vs. Audi thread but since it's the only Luxury/Performance car I've owned it's the only one I have to compare it to.

All my cars weekend cars before that were... 69 Grand Prix, 64 Impala, a 2001 Firebird LS1, blah blah blah. They all had motor work done (a lot I did myself) but they're kind of hard to compare to more modern rides.

**SprintBlueWorld** · 02-20-2015 08:53 PM

Hence the bridge.

:)

**Concavitor** · 02-20-2015 10:15 PM

Recognize you made a mistake and did not research what these cost to maintain. Correct the mistake ASAP and sell the car even if at a small loss. Trust me, it can and will likely GET MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.

Save your marriage.

**4point2** · 02-21-2015 12:57 AM

what many have said above is true, and this forum is a wealth of knowledge, with DIY instructions for at least the VCG and the valley pan one as I did both myself last summer. total cost was about $350 in parts and about 8hrs of my never-wrenched-on-a-car-before labour.

Having done the VCG myself, I can absolutely guarantee that there is NO WAY for the first guy to be able to tell you the guides are in good shape and that the chain is tight, unless he pulled the engine out to do the VCG (which he won't have or your bill would have been $3000 more) I know I tried, even with a borescope, i just could not get into the timing cover.

again as others have pointed out, this car IS a high performance variant, at the time it was the direct competition for the M3, accordingly high maintenance bills are to be expected. this isn't a car one should stretch their finances to buy. It's a shame but i think you might be best off parting ways, especially given your current experience with yours and the not-so-rosy feelings you have towards it. We'd hate to see you go, cos you sound like a nice guy, so maybe the sensible thing would be to step into an A4 instead (others can chime in here perhaps as I don't have a good sense of their reliability and repairs costs vs the S4)

Ultimately do the right thing by your wallet (and your wife), especially since your heart isn't attached to this car like so many of ours are

**Professor** · 02-21-2015 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by richflath

I can't even afford to do what needs to be done now and you're throwing aftermarket parts at me. LOL

So I'm assuming that you don't want to tackle this job yourself? the parts are only like $30 or so for the valley pan gasket and oil filter housing gaskets. I have yet to do it myself, but from what I've read it's a relatively easy job. Mostly it's getting wires and hoses out of the way so you can pull the intake manifold off.

**richflath** · 02-21-2015 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Professor

So I'm assuming that you don't want to tackle this job yourself? the parts are only like $30 or so for the valley pan gasket and oil filter housing gaskets. I have yet to do it myself, but from what I've read it's a relatively easy job. Mostly it's getting wires and hoses out of the way so you can pull the intake manifold off.

I never said that I wouldn't. However, considering the weather and temperatures, doing this without a garage is going to be pretty rough task.

I would be leery of a DIY getting this deep into the engine though. I'd rather assist someone who knows more of what they're doing.

**Professor** · 02-21-2015 08:50 AM

I hear you on the temps.. My house has a garage up here in Boston, and it's still freezing.

The job isn't too deep, its just a lot of time spent moving stuff out of the way. Here is a good DIY for taking out the Manifold. You can see the Valley Pan in the photos just after the manifold has been taken off.

http://www.cuccarogarage.com/diy-aud...acers-install/

EDIT: If you buy the Manifold spacers from JHM, they give you a 60min video on how to do the job ;) But that's another $160 (they do include new gaskets tho, which isn't a bad idea to replace while you have it all apart anyways)

**esimp2k** · 02-21-2015 03:49 PM

OP you bought a high performance sedan that is generally really good up to 100k in my experience but after that there's a lot of expensive maintenance. A lot of people dump these cars at 100k plus to avoid this (I'm one of them). I'm in a b8 now and those are starting to get in the same age and mileage.

**JrooseS4** · 02-22-2015 05:14 PM

My car has been plagued with leaks.

I bought it at 58000 miles. I have replaced cam shaft sensors, front main seal, and VCG for engine oil leaking out of those areas. I have also replaced my aux radiators and some o rings in the AC. Probably spent 2200 getting all of the leaks worked out. Now my car oil level stays constant and it runs great. Might want to shop around for work or befriend a mechanic dude. My S4 has had every single common problem known lol. (Starter, VCG, crank sensor, camshaft position sensor, front main seal, aux radiators, coolant temp sensor, etc etc)

**TRIP** · 02-22-2015 06:59 PM

I'd say save money fix it right the first time

**richflath** · 02-23-2015 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by JrooseS4

My car has been plagued with leaks.

I bought it at 58000 miles. I have replaced cam shaft sensors, front main seal, and VCG for engine oil leaking out of those areas. I have also replaced my aux radiators and some o rings in the AC. Probably spent 2200 getting all of the leaks worked out. Now my car oil level stays constant and it runs great. Might want to shop around for work or befriend a mechanic dude. My S4 has had every single common problem known lol. (Starter, VCG, crank sensor, camshaft position sensor, front main seal, aux radiators, coolant temp sensor, etc etc)

So much for someone else's "reliable up to 100k" statement.

I'm befriending and Audi mechanic to see about assisting him with fixing the VPG, etc. I'm using "hidden cash" to do this so the wife doesn't have a moo-cow and throw me out.