New RS4 owner but EPC problem?

[Alefustec]

Hi all - I have just bought a 2007 Phantom Black RS4. Only 14K miles on the clock so not been really used by the 1 previous owner.

LOVE the car, BUT, unfortunately having owned it 1 month it hasn't run properly. Since the day I got it

First issue occurred when due to a faulty fuel gauge sensor I ran out of fuel. Put fuel in but had an EPC light come on immediately afterwards with symptoms of really poor fuel consumption, wouldnt rev over about 3.5K and very lumpy on idle.

Took car back under the warranty I got with the car and they replaced everything apparently (injectors etc). Although I'm not exactly useful when it comes to these things but I do know I had to wait 7 days for part and fitting etc. Within 2 hours of getting car back EPC light comes back on with exact same problem.

Take car back AGAIN and the vagcom it but cant really find the problem. They swap out the spark plugs etc and apparently (as I was away on business while work going on) ran the car for 3 days with no problems before I picked it up. Get car back and again run for a few hours no problem (and I'm delighted) before EPC light comes back on and I'm back to square 1.

Fault was originally intermittent, would sometimes be fine on start up then come on within an hour or so, or come straight on from start up then stay on before clearing. However, now its got worse and is just on constantly.

Spoke to garage again and issue is they are not an audi approved dealer (who really seem to be trying their best) buto have to use the ONLY Audi dealer here in Jersey (UK) who having not sold the car are not seemingly that bothered

The dealer is saying they want to do a software update to solve the problem but are worried they will wipe original data and don't have the code to back it up IF it doesn't fix the problem and want £1000 from the garage I bought the car from in case they need to re-install the original settings.

Frankly, having searched the forums tirelessly over last couple of weeks I'm VERY VERY far from convinced the software update will solve the problem and think I'm swimming in a world of B*** and they have NO clue what the problem is and don't care because the car is 8 years old and they didn't sell it.

I guess I'm looking for any clues you guys on the forum may have as to what the most likely issues causing these problems and indeed if anyone has had a similar issue and resolved it?

BTW I'm not being lazy I have looked through various forums seeking an answer and can find posts on similar issues but they don't seem to match the issues I have? I posted up the same question on Audi sport forum but no meaningful reply yet.

Any help appreciated as I REALLY love this car, when its running right, and have wanted to won one since they were launched. So although I could just throw it back at the garage who sold it to me and walk away I'm very unlikely to find another RS4 in the same condition (fault notwithstanding) with such low miles and at this price and with spec (colour etc) that I want.

[singleframe]

sorry I'm not helping, but some of these cars with VERY low milage worry me. Cars are meant to be driven and when they aren't, as in your case (2000 miles/yr) they just don't get any exercise, so to speak. Gaskets, rubber seals etc tend to dry out over time, gas can sit a loooong time and deteriorate becoming less volatile. The less volatile the fuel, the less effectively it burns in the engine. These are just a few things...not sure of the history or prior owner, but once you get things sorted out, I suggest driving that beast!!

and btw...pics or its a Yaris!

[forbiddenbeat]

So the car is throwing no codes at all? If EPC is coming on, your engine is going into limp mode, and it could be any number of things causing it. Faulty sensors (crank position, O2, bad MAF, the list goes on), stuck/broken intake flaps, bad coil packs, etc. The car might also need a carbon cleaning if the previous owner was only changing the oil based on mileage and not also age.

You really need to take it to a competent Audi mechanic (unless under warranty, the dealer isn't typically my top choice). But without codes, it's kind of like searching for an needle in a haystack.

[Quattrors4]

If the epc light comes on then it must have fault codes ,if no codes your ecu has a problem

[prfktgntlmn]

What are the fault codes? Only 14k miles, shouldn't be a carbon issue. Check to see that all the vacuum lines are connected.

[Alefustec]

Thanks all. Car back in garage today with clear instructions that I don't want it back unless 100% sorted. They still have no clue but main dealer seems to be taking notice now. I guess I will see.

-------------------------------
sorry I'm not helping, but some of these cars with VERY low milage worry me. Cars are meant to be driven and when they aren't, as in your case (2000 miles/yr) they just don't get any exercise, so to speak. Gaskets, rubber seals etc tend to dry out over time, gas can sit a loooong time and deteriorate becoming less volatile. The less volatile the fuel, the less effectively it burns in the engine. These are just a few things...not sure of the history or prior owner, but once you get things sorted out, I suggest driving that beast!!
--------------------------------
singleframe - totally agree. I think this was why I had the initial fuel gauge issue and previous owner not only didn't drive it much, I don't think it was ever pushed hard. I am very aware these cars were made to drive, and don't worry, assuming I get it back sorted I will be doing all I can to make amends for its formative years of monk saintly driving and ragging the bejesus out of the thing!

Just trying to figure out how to upload pics from the dealers site as in fairness I haven't had the car long enough to even take a flaming picture myself!!

and btw...pics or its a Yaris!

[Alefustec]

Okay not sure if this will work, but here are the images off the dealers site.

[Alefustec]

No idea - I asked but apparently throwing off different ones each time they check, hence why they are struggling to pin the problem down.

[MugelloB7RS4]

I had random intermittent EPC lights that were caused be weird voltage issues from my original battery. Check see if the car has the original battery from 2007. If the battery is 8 years old, a new one will only help aid in diagnosis and could help point to the root cause.

[Alefustec]

So the car is throwing no codes at all? If EPC is coming on, your engine is going into limp mode, and it could be any number of things causing it. Faulty sensors (crank position, O2, bad MAF, the list goes on), stuck/broken intake flaps, bad coil packs, etc. The car might also need a carbon cleaning if the previous owner was only changing the oil based on mileage and not also age.

You really need to take it to a competent Audi mechanic (unless under warranty, the dealer isn't typically my top choice). But without codes, it's kind of like searching for an needle in a haystack.

Sorry if I wasn't clear - it is throwing codes but apparently different ones each time which is why they can't work out issue. Coil packs checked and new plugs last time plus they checked the MAF after it went back in the first time after I ran it out of fuel. As for main dealer, I'm worries as have had bad experiences with other cars, but unfortunately I'm in Jersey (45 square mile in English channel) so only 1 dealer and no specialist Audi mechanics. Not helped by the fact I'm only aware of maybe 12 B7 RS4's in the island so won't be much experience here in dealing with issues.

Fingers crossed they can resolve it as I would hate to have to hand car back and walk away as I'm not going to find another locally so will have to look at getting a much higher mileage one from UK and then ship back here which starts to get expensive (I'll pay 20% tax on purchase plus shipping costs)

........but just look at those pictures, as much as I'm totally fed up I'm not ready to part with it unless I have no other options........damn I love RS4's

[jeff33702]

It would help if you posted the codes it's coming up with.

[Alefustec]

It would help if you posted the codes it's coming up with.

Unfortunately I don't know. I don't have vagcom and garage didn't specify what the codes were, only they were different ones each time the checked. I appreciate that would help, but then, I also assumed the garage would be able to pinpoint the issue(s) based on the codes that were storing in the ECU. If I don't get any sensible response from them in next couple of days I will ask for the full list of codes that are showing in the ECU and post them up in the hope someone on this forum will be able to check what they mean.

[Silveravant]

EPC light can be caused by faulty 614 power relay. Located under ECU. Cheap and pretty easy to change. There are 2 614 relays. One is for the fuel pump, the other is power to many items. I wasn't sure which one was which so I just replaced both. No problems since.

[Alefustec]

When the EPC light was coming on did you have same issues I have described (lumpy idle, won't rev freely above 3.5k etc)?

[Silveravant]

Sounds like limp mode. If so, yes. Again this is a pretty cheap fix. The relays are about $15 each and about 15 minutes labor.

[FWP!]

You mention you ran the car out of gas, it is possible the low pressure fuel pump overheated (the one in the tank). Or, the pump could have picked up some junk in the bottom of the tank, clogging up the pre-filter (or damaging the internals of the pump). I'd be checking to make sure the fuel pressure is sufficient going up to the high pressure pumps, which can be done with VAG COM. The issues describe sound familiar to problems other people have had and it was solved by replacing either the in-tank fuel pump, or the high pressure fuel pumps.

[Silveravant]

You mention you ran the car out of gas, it is possible the low pressure fuel pump overheated (the one in the tank). Or, the pump could have picked up some junk in the bottom of the tank, clogging up the pre-filter (or damaging the internals of the pump). I'd be checking to make sure the fuel pressure is sufficient going up to the high pressure pumps, which can be done with VAG COM. The issues describe sound familiar to problems other people have had and it was solved by replacing either the in-tank fuel pump, or the high pressure fuel pumps.

I don't think that low fuel pressure will cause the EPC light to come on.

[Alefustec]

I don't think that low fuel pressure will cause the EPC light to come on.

That would make sense, it definitely feels like it simply doesn't have enough fuel as low down revs are generally okay. The garage did say they checked and replaced everything as it did pick up junk off the bottom of the tank - I don't know if this went as far as replacing either of the pumps. It does say in the owner manual to NOT let it run out of fuel so I guess Audi knew this would screw things up.

I will speak to the garage tomorrow and ask - very helpful response so thank you and post back what they say on this.

Re EPC not being triggered by pumps - is it possible that's being triggered indirectly due to lack of fuel flow, so not pumps directly but MAF, knock sensors etc. that could explain why they keep getting random fault codes. Obviously I'm making a complete guess as I know F-all about this really just logically trying to think it through.

Oh and just in case people pick up back end of this post, I'm not a complete donut, I didn't run out of fuel because I can't read a fuel gauge, it was because it was stuck at half tank so when I first got car assumed I had a half tank of fuel rather than about 5 litres which is why it ran dry.

[RS4 Ottawa]

Off topic a bit but my EPC light would come on here and there when I was driving in the rain. Once the EPC light was on I wouldnt be able to rev over 3k I believe. After drying it out in the garage for a day or two everything was fine. Any ideas?

[FWP!]

That would make sense, it definitely feels like it simply doesn't have enough fuel as low down revs are generally okay. The garage did say they checked and replaced everything as it did pick up junk off the bottom of the tank - I don't know if this went as far as replacing either of the pumps. It does say in the owner manual to NOT let it run out of fuel so I guess Audi knew this would screw things up.

I will speak to the garage tomorrow and ask - very helpful response so thank you and post back what they say on this.

Re EPC not being triggered by pumps - is it possible that's being triggered indirectly due to lack of fuel flow, so not pumps directly but MAF, knock sensors etc. that could explain why they keep getting random fault codes. Obviously I'm making a complete guess as I know F-all about this really just logically trying to think it through.

Oh and just in case people pick up back end of this post, I'm not a complete donut, I didn't run out of fuel because I can't read a fuel gauge, it was because it was stuck at half tank so when I first got car assumed I had a half tank of fuel rather than about 5 litres which is why it ran dry.

We need to know the codes, then. And I hope they are using VAG COM so you can get them all including the EPC ones.

[singleframe]

looks very clean!!

[Alefustec]

You mention you ran the car out of gas, it is possible the low pressure fuel pump overheated (the one in the tank). Or, the pump could have picked up some junk in the bottom of the tank, clogging up the pre-filter (or damaging the internals of the pump). I'd be checking to make sure the fuel pressure is sufficient going up to the high pressure pumps, which can be done with VAG COM. The issues describe sound familiar to problems other people have had and it was solved by replacing either the in-tank fuel pump, or the high pressure fuel pumps.

Okay garage called - it would appear that your diagnosis was spot on. They managed after apparently a lot of head scratching to narrow issues down to fuel pressure, and checked the high pressure fuel pumps......right bank one is knackered. They replaced off a donor RS4 avant they have in for sale to try it as a fix and apparently is running fine. They are ordering the new pump (said £400 cost but under my warranty anyway) which will be in Monday. In meantime they want to hang on to the car over weekend and run it to make sure this is the final solution as I told them if they hand the car back to me broken one more time they will be keeping it..................and I may put an offer on the Avant - although its an 2007 its got 45K miles on the clock and they want £3K more for it than my saloon.

By Tuesday/Wednesday next week I should have the car back, and working finally, and I can get on with clocking up the miles a little bit and perhaps giving it the workout it has been sorely deprived of all these years. may even book a short trip over to France (just an hour on boat from here) as the 40mph speed limit and lack of any road longer than 1/4 mile makes pushing the RS4 hard slightly challenging and likely to result it either in a hedge or a nice long chat with the local constabulary.

I'll post the results up and in the meantime appreciate the help, not out the woods yet, but feel more confident I'm going to get the car back in full working order. I can maybe post up some more pictures and start getting on with exploring some mods/upgrades.................supercharging keeps running through my brain (if you have 414 BHP why not go for 600???), although millteks, lowering (H&R springs?) and some spacers to fill out the arches properly are tope of the wish list!

[xalfa]

Definitely get the Avant. You will make many of us here in the Colonies very envious.

[Silveravant]

Off topic a bit but my EPC light would come on here and there when I was driving in the rain. Once the EPC light was on I wouldnt be able to rev over 3k I believe. After drying it out in the garage for a day or two everything was fine. Any ideas?

You probably have a water leak into the ECU box. The 614 relays are in the bottom of it. This is a fairly common problem, sometimes caused by someone opening the ECU box by breaking the rear corner off instead of removing the windshield wiper and one side of the cowl cover to access the "hidden" torx head screw.

[Silveravant]

Again the EPC light will not be illuminated by low fuel pressure. EPC stands for Electronic Power Control or drive by wire throttle. The CEL light would be set off by low fuel pressure. The EPC light is an indication of an electrical problem. I bet that if you see the list of engine codes they are a list of items receiving low or no voltage. This is caused by a faulty relay.

[Alefustec]

Again the EPC light will not be illuminated by low fuel pressure. EPC stands for Electronic Power Control or drive by wire throttle. The CEL light would be set off by low fuel pressure. The EPC light is an indication of an electrical problem. I bet that if you see the list of engine codes they are a list of items receiving low or no voltage. This is caused by a faulty relay.

Garage called today and said it had been running fine with the donor fuel pump on an extended test and were going to continue to test over weekend. I'll ask they check the relay though too when I speak to them Monday. Again appreciate the help.

[xalfa]

Ah, the old "we're going to need to do some extensive testing over the weekend" ploy.

[Silveravant]

An easy way to tell if a mechanic doesn't know what the f... they're doing is when they replace random parts and tell you it's fixed when it's not.
Fuel injectors,etc., no
Spark plugs, no
ECU, no
Fuel pump, I doubt it.
It's also a bad sign when they won't tell you what the trouble codes are.

[oreo8716]

i was having similar issues and still am. here were my codes. haven't found the problem yet.. once in a while the light will come on,, bad idle, can't rev past around 3000. VCDS Version: Release 11.11.5
Data version: 20121222
Saturday,27,July,2013,17:21:22:02811
Chassis Type: 8E - Audi A4 B6/B7
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0F 11 15 16 17 18 36 37 45 46 55 56 57 65 67
69 75 76 77

VIN: WUARU78E37N904946 Mileage: 64710km/40208miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 079-910-560-BNS1.lbl
Part No SW: 8E1 910 560 A HW: 8E1 907 560
Component: 4.2L V8/4V FSI ª0060
Revision: 57H13--- Serial number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Coding: 01040009180F0160
Shop #: WSC 08213 444 69273
VCID: 244CE8E6E7D10438654
10 Faults Found:
012312 - Valve for Exhaust Flap 1 (N321)
P3018 - 002 - Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 206 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
001112 - Evap System Purge Control Valve (N80)
P0458 - 002 - Short to Ground - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 206 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
008201 - Intake Manifold Flap; Bank 1
P2009 - 002 - Short to Ground - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 206 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
004199 - Intake Air Switch-Over Valve (N335)
P1067 - 002 - Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 206 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
005173 - Secondary Air Pump Relay (J299)
P1435 - 002 - Short to Ground - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 206 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
005153 - Secondary Air Injection Solenoid Valve (N112)
P1421 - 002 - Short to Ground - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 206 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
005494 - Right Engine Mount Solenoid Valve (N145)
P1576 - 002 - Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 206 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
008853 - Fuel Pressure Regulator Valve (N276)
P2295 - 002 - Short to Ground - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 195 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
009217 - EVAP Leak Detection Pump Control Circuit
P2401 - 002 - Short to GND - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1239 /min
Load: 40.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 24.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.843 V
006435 - Please Check DTC Memory of ECU Number 2
P1923 - 008 -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 36.0°C
Temperature: 30.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.684 V
Readiness: 0000 0000

[Alefustec]

An easy way to tell if a mechanic doesn't know what the f... they're doing is when they replace random parts and tell you it's fixed when it's not.
Fuel injectors,etc., no
Spark plugs, no
ECU, no
Fuel pump, I doubt it.

It's also a bad sign when they won't tell you what the trouble codes are.

Yup agree, I bought car from a garage run by an old mate of 20+ years. He is a really good guy but having to rely on the ONLY audi dealer in Jersey, who are not great. He feels embarrassed and because I know he really is trying to get it sorted trust him to do his best. The only reason I'm bearing with this s**t is because I know he is genuinely trying to get it sorted. He is taking personal repsonsibility, and response to the earlier post about the "extended test drive" is that he is using it as he wants to be sure personally it's sorted. As long as I'm dealing with people I trust I can live with the reality that they don't have control over the quality if tech support. I would be worse off trying to deal with main deal myself. Also garage he works for is owned.run by an ex F1 winner and very reputable - we are a small island and bad service kills businesses quickly here. I have seen cars with 3x mileage for sale at £10k more than I paid for mine so it's a bargain as no one wants a V8 in Jersey. If i can get it sorted it's a steal and worth the effort on purely financial grounds, but, real reason is I LOVE this car end of. It's purely emotional and my mrs thinks I'm mental, but only those who buy cars based passion rather than,logic understand. Afteral, I could get a brand new base merc BMW with latest technology etc and no hassles, but a car is so much more to me than a device to get from A to B it's all about "how" you get there and how much fun you have doing it.and for me the RS4 puts a smile on my face every time I get in it. For that reason alone I owe it to me, and the car, to persevere.

[Alefustec]

Oreo8716a - In case you missed thread above.

Seems a bad relay can cause EPC issues as you describe. SILVERANT mentioned this above as a possible cause. As you have codes other members may be able to assist in diagnosis.

Hope you get it sorted.

[Silveravant]

i was having similar issues and still am. here were my codes. haven't found the problem yet.. once in a while the light will come on,, bad idle, can't rev past around 3000. VCDS Version: Release 11.11.5
Data version: 20121222
Saturday,27,July,2013,17:21:22:02811
Chassis Type: 8E - Audi A4 B6/B7
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0F 11 15 16 17 18 36 37 45 46 55 56 57 65 67
69 75 76 77

VIN: WUARU78E37N904946 Mileage: 64710km/40208miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 079-910-560-BNS1.lbl
Part No SW: 8E1 910 560 A HW: 8E1 907 560
Component: 4.2L V8/4V FSI ª0060
Revision: 57H13--- Serial number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Coding: 01040009180F0160
Shop #: WSC 08213 444 69273
VCID: 244CE8E6E7D10438654
10 Faults Found:
012312 - Valve for Exhaust Flap 1 (N321)
P3018 - 002 - Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 206 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
001112 - Evap System Purge Control Valve (N80)
P0458 - 002 - Short to Ground - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 206 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
008201 - Intake Manifold Flap; Bank 1
P2009 - 002 - Short to Ground - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 206 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
004199 - Intake Air Switch-Over Valve (N335)
P1067 - 002 - Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 206 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
005173 - Secondary Air Pump Relay (J299)
P1435 - 002 - Short to Ground - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 206 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
005153 - Secondary Air Injection Solenoid Valve (N112)
P1421 - 002 - Short to Ground - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 206 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
005494 - Right Engine Mount Solenoid Valve (N145)
P1576 - 002 - Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 206 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
008853 - Fuel Pressure Regulator Valve (N276)
P2295 - 002 - Short to Ground - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 195 /min
Load: 98.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 23.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
009217 - EVAP Leak Detection Pump Control Circuit
P2401 - 002 - Short to GND - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1239 /min
Load: 40.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 24.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.843 V
006435 - Please Check DTC Memory of ECU Number 2
P1923 - 008 -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 64719 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 36.0°C
Temperature: 30.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.684 V
Readiness: 0000 0000

Again I would check the fuses and relays under the ECU. The fuses are easy, the relays not so much. My 614 relays seemed fine, but once I replaced them my EPC/limp/CEL problems have not returned. Water in the ECU box is common, but there was none in mine. Maybe just removing and replacing the relays cleaned the contacts but once I had everything apart I replaced the relays anyway. There is also a possibility that there is a bad ground or wire, but it is easiest to check things in the ECU box first.

[Alefustec]

Okay - so my new ownership of an RS4 has been less than brilliant. Haven't had the car back since my original post. Updates are the fuel pump has been changed and it apparently ran well before EPC light came on again. Further head scratching by garage ensued and having checked relays etc and still not finding the problem they believe I have a bad ECU.

....so what I have been told; "ECU has to be sent away to be checked by a specialist company who will say whether its toast. Should know by Thursday this week. If it is knackered they will order a new ECU from Audi but not sure how long it will take to get here"

Seems everything is depending on the ECU being the problem now as if its not I think they are pretty much out of ideas.

Serious question, as I'm seriously worried, is this a lemon and I need to walk away? I willing to give them another chance to fix it as I still want the car back, I'm just concerned that its always going to be a problem car in which case I'm better of bailing on it now I guess............I mean how serious an indication the car is a bag of s**t with all the issues its had or given that its running out of parts to change that once 'fixed' my woes will be behind me???

[wednesday]

Okay - so my new ownership of an RS4 has been less than brilliant. Haven't had the car back since my original post. Updates are the fuel pump has been changed and it apparently ran well before EPC light came on again. Further head scratching by garage ensued and having checked relays etc and still not finding the problem they believe I have a bad ECU.

....so what I have been told; "ECU has to be sent away to be checked by a specialist company who will say whether its toast. Should know by Thursday this week. If it is knackered they will order a new ECU from Audi but not sure how long it will take to get here"

Seems everything is depending on the ECU being the problem now as if its not I think they are pretty much out of ideas.

Serious question, as I'm seriously worried, is this a lemon and I need to walk away? I willing to give them another chance to fix it as I still want the car back, I'm just concerned that its always going to be a problem car in which case I'm better of bailing on it now I guess............I mean how serious an indication the car is a bag of s**t with all the issues its had or given that its running out of parts to change that once 'fixed' my woes will be behind me???

I had horrible time with my RS4 when I bought it and wished there was a "money back guarantee" with it. It went through three dealerships including official Audi dealership and none of them would fix the actual clutch issue but changed everything else under sun "figuratively" - clutch slave cylinder, master cylinder, hose, random sensors and the list went on. I eventually took the car from them to a third party guy and had him change the clutch to resolve sticky clutch pedal issue. My car went back and forth between dealerships for first two months where I only got to drive it for 10 miles during that time. Not only did I have to show "qualified mechanics" how to recreate this problem, they would literally take it for joy rides over the weekend and tell me that it is under investigation. There comes a time when you say, enough is enough. This is not a McLaren MP4-12c or Ford GT or R8, ..etc. Whether you are making monthly payments or bought it cash, it's a loss during this time and lemon or not, that memory sticks with you. I understand if it happened after few months or years after ownership, but first day? No. If I enter the same situation again, I am going back with a lawyer and someone is giving me my money back.

Another thing to keep in mind is, this is not an A4 or Camry or 328i where dealerships have enough experience to diagnose an issue. If I ever see another RS4 with a problem during a test drive, no power can make me get it and say that it holds it's value. Mechanic of one of the biggest dealerships told me that they have never worked on these and then when they order a part, it takes a week to arrive. I am sorry, but that much downtime is unacceptable.

I enjoy and love driving it every day, but have horrible memories from first three months. I paid full price for mine and it sounds like you did as well. If we bought something cheap due to high mileage or damage, then it would be another case. I am holding a lot of my frustration back at this time about this honestly. I am not an 18 year old where I would get angry and try to chest bump someone. I have to take some decisions with family and be realistic in some cases no matter what my love for cars (all models), is. This is just my experience and opinion.

[Silveravant]

[QUOTE=Alefustec;10538022]Okay - so my new ownership of an RS4 has been less than brilliant. Haven't had the car back since my original post. Updates are the fuel pump has been changed and it apparently ran well before EPC light came on again. Further head scratching by garage ensued and having checked relays etc and still not finding the problem they believe I have a bad ECU.

....so what I have been told; "ECU has to be sent away to be checked by a specialist company who will say whether its toast. Should know by Thursday this week. If it is knackered they will order a new ECU from Audi but not sure how long it will take to get here"

Seems everything is depending on the ECU being the problem now as if its not I think they are pretty much out of ideas.

Serious question, as I'm seriously worried, is this a lemon and I need to walk away? I willing to give them another chance to fix it as I still want the car back, I'm just concerned that its always going to be a problem car in which case I'm better of bailing on it now I guess............I mean how serious an indication the car is a bag of s**t with all the issues its had or given that its running out of parts to change that once 'fixed' my woes will be behind me???[/QUOTE





Have they just "checked" the relays or have they replace them? Like I said I checked the relays on my car and they seemed perfect. I changed the relays anyway (about $40) and the problem has not returned. If you look at the wiring diagram all the sensors etc. that are throwing codes are routed through one of the relays. The ecu very very rarely goes bad.

I don't know if your car is a lemon, but I do know your mechanic is incompetent. Throwing parts at a car and saying that it's fixed when it's not is a bad sign.

I also think trouble shooting an RS4 is almost exactly the same as an A4. Really the only different parts are the engine and brakes. Suspension is the same, just different tuning. You don't have an engine problem. The EPC light/limp mode is an electrical problem.

[Alefustec]

Just checked them apparently. FFS really annoyed as I bet the ECU will come back as being okay. I'll call again tomorrow but as they sent the ECU away it's all pointless until it comes back.

Unfortunately whilst well intentioned as mentioned before I'm on a very small island without much choice. There is just 1 audi dealer or I need to get the car on a boat and over to UK. As the garage is picking up all the bills of course I just have to let them get on with it.

It's definitely electrical though as when the faults not showing the car runs beautifully - I guess that's also why I haven't walked away already as I belive the car is fundamentally sound.

I hope it does get sorted in the next week as I'm also feeling that having got to a point financially where I can afford a second 'fun' car for just me (although one that I can still do school run in etc) I'm driving around in a A3 base 1.3 loaner from the garage - I came out a BMW 330d touring for the Audi so have actually ended up going backwards in terms of driving pleasure at the moment.

[docurley]

Audi would ask for the Avant as a loaner to be honest...... good faith and all that.

Old school epc issue used to be the brake switch being faulty and causing the epc to come on and cut power by putting it in to limp mode.

[PetrolDave]

Old school epc issue used to be the brake switch being faulty and causing the epc to come on and cut power by putting it in to limp mode.

Same thing happens if both brake bulbs are blown.

[Alefustec]

Update - haven't seen the car since my original post. Lost count of the replacement parts including ECU's (1 replaced/1 repaired) and relays sensors etc.

For additional comedy value in amongst it all, whilst on test drive with the garage, a tractor threw a stone at it and cracked the windscreen. I mean FFS really??? Is this car cursed or something???.

As it stands, other than bodywork, engine block and transmission, the bloody thing is new. It was with the local Audi dealership this week for the 'final' last ditch attempt (i.e. after this everyone is chucking the towel in) to resolve the STILL recurring EPC and check engine light issue (relays replaced and software update). Its now having windscreen replaced today.

The plan is for my to pick it up tomorrow morning but you will appreciate I'm a little apprehensive, and will probably need counselling before I am able to overcome the irrational (or possibly very rational and justifiable) fear of that dreaded yellow light on the dash reappearing a bit like Jason from Friday the 13th (why won't he just die..!!!!!!!!!!!!).

In fairness the garage have been really good who sold the car and offered me alternative options to just get me out the car (and finance) if I wanted or sourcing another vehicle for me. They are in deep on it on the costs racked up so are frustrated as well. For some reason, having come this far, and knowing that there isn't anything mechanical wrong I have hung in there with it. Its almost become an obsession to just grin and bare it and get the damn thing back on the road and drive it in the manner they intended when building it.

So I will either be posting up tomorrow evening my own pics of the car and how delighted I am, or, will be giving everyone a heads up on either bagging a bargain RS4 (if you fancy taking a bash at fixing it where others have failed) or that it will be parted out.....................which would be a real tragedy.

I will also post up the full list of parts changed etc...............and assuming I do get it back working I figure it will be handy to have the £100o's of pounds worth of receipts spent on it in last 3 months when I eventually come to sell it on!!!!!

[FWP!]

Update - haven't seen the car since my original post. Lost count of the replacement parts including ECU's (1 replaced/1 repaired) and relays sensors etc.

For additional comedy value in amongst it all, whilst on test drive with the garage, a tractor threw a stone at it and cracked the windscreen. I mean FFS really??? Is this car cursed or something???.

As it stands, other than bodywork, engine block and transmission, the bloody thing is new. It was with the local Audi dealership this week for the 'final' last ditch attempt (i.e. after this everyone is chucking the towel in) to resolve the STILL recurring EPC and check engine light issue (relays replaced and software update). Its now having windscreen replaced today.

The plan is for my to pick it up tomorrow morning but you will appreciate I'm a little apprehensive, and will probably need counselling before I am able to overcome the irrational (or possibly very rational and justifiable) fear of that dreaded yellow light on the dash reappearing a bit like Jason from Friday the 13th (why won't he just die..!!!!!!!!!!!!).

In fairness the garage have been really good who sold the car and offered me alternative options to just get me out the car (and finance) if I wanted or sourcing another vehicle for me. They are in deep on it on the costs racked up so are frustrated as well. For some reason, having come this far, and knowing that there isn't anything mechanical wrong I have hung in there with it. Its almost become an obsession to just grin and bare it and get the damn thing back on the road and drive it in the manner they intended when building it.

So I will either be posting up tomorrow evening my own pics of the car and how delighted I am, or, will be giving everyone a heads up on either bagging a bargain RS4 (if you fancy taking a bash at fixing it where others have failed) or that it will be parted out.....................which would be a real tragedy.

I will also post up the full list of parts changed etc...............and assuming I do get it back working I figure it will be handy to have the £100o's of pounds worth of receipts spent on it in last 3 months when I eventually come to sell it on!!!!!

I don't mean to bug you about it again, but did you ever find out what the VAG COM codes were? Do you know anyone who has a cable and the software? I'd be really interested to know what it says.