Start up Rattle and Accusump

[kevinye77137]

hello im planning to buy an Accusump to prolong my engine from the cold/warm start up rattles I get. I have 94k miles right now. My question to you guys is how long have you had the Accusump in your B6/7 and did you have cold/warm start up rattles before? Mileage before Accusump and present? Success stories? Anyone had Accusump but still had a timing chain failure from broken tensioners? Where did you mount the Accusump?

[cobraBLACK]

They may well work but they're not going to reverse the damage that's already done.

[EUROSWAGR]

IMHO, this accusump hype is a waste of money. DO the timing chain job and drive the car for 100k more miles

[Brandywine050]

IMHO, this accusump hype is a waste of money. DO the timing chain job and drive the car for 100k more miles

i'd have to agree with this.most vehicles have made it up to now without the use of one. now if you tore down your motor and built it with tighter than stock main, rod, and ptw clearances then maybe id tell you to install one, but thats the only time you'll really need one.

[m-ys4]

I've been reading about this all morning and it seems like a great thing to have. yes damage is already done but I guess this will further prevent damage from happening? Are guys still installing this? Today was the first time I've ever heard about it.

[Brandywine050]

Its not needed, its use is for engines (Racing applications) with tight tolerances to have oil pressure before start. most all production engines have looser clearances to prevent this, and to allow a film oil accumulate on the mains and rods. The rattle is either a broken guide and upon start up the engine has to build pressure to allow the tensioner to remove excess slack, even on engines with unbroken guides you may have initial start up rattle, its caused by the tensioners backing into the housing a little and upon start up the thrust load on the chain from the crank allows some deflection until the guide rail supports it, most tensioners today have the piston machined with slots and a spiral spring to prevent the piston from being pushed back into the body of the tensioner allowing only a one-way outward motion. so it may always be apparent on these cars without that mechanism, but its no real worry as it won't cause any damage. people changed driving habits and adding all these sub systems are going over board is just my opinion. auto manufacturers test these engines in conditions no consumer will see in most applications. Audi did the same testing when these were developed so i wouldn't worry and start adding all this stuff. I bought the JHM intermediate timing kit with the updated guide and haven't worried since.

[m-ys4]

Brandy, are the upgraded guides in the timing kit pretty much solid and 'unbreakable'? I worry one of my guids might be cracked or something, I get the rattle upon cold start sometimes, not all the time. but mainly on cold, never warm. this accusump would prevent the rattle and from making things more worse than they already are no? Im just trying to get a full understanding of the product.

[Brandywine050]

Brandy, are the upgraded guides in the timing kit pretty much solid and 'unbreakable'? I worry one of my guids might be cracked or something, I get the rattle upon cold start sometimes, not all the time. but mainly on cold, never warm. this accusump would prevent the rattle and from making things more worse than they already are no? Im just trying to get a full understanding of the product.

For the conditions these engines see i'd say the guide is more than enough, its quite robust. i still have some on these cold mornings 10F-0 but its barely audible, but thats just the tensioners settling in and residual pressure bleeding off as i know my guides are new and unbroken. unfortunately adding an oil accumulator may just be putting a big bandage on existing damage.

[aroderick56]

hello im planning to buy an Accusump to prolong my engine from the cold/warm start up rattles I get. I have 94k miles right now. My question to you guys is how long have you had the Accusump in your B6/7 and did you have cold/warm start up rattles before? Mileage before Accusump and present? Success stories? Anyone had Accusump but still had a timing chain failure from broken tensioners? Where did you mount the Accusump?

Check out my build thread. I mounted a 1qt accusump in my trunk. I have been using it for over a year so far. Let me clarify for you. The 1qt system is for PRE OILING your motor. This is NOT a chain rattle solution. If you have rattle on start up, the accusump can actually hide a potential timing issue.

IMHO, this accusump hype is a waste of money. DO the timing chain job and drive the car for 100k more miles

I agree with the hype of the accusump. People keep thinking its a chain rattle solution. It was my personal preference to buy and install an accusump, not because I wanted to solve rattle

I've been reading about this all morning and it seems like a great thing to have. yes damage is already done but I guess this will further prevent damage from happening? Are guys still installing this? Today was the first time I've ever heard about it.

No it will not prevent any damage. The accusump in this situation is only for preoiling your motor. This is only on start up if you use the electric valve switch. If using the electric valve switch, the accusump does nothing when you are driving

Its not needed, its use is for engines (Racing applications) with tight tolerances to have oil pressure before start. most all production engines have looser clearances to prevent this, and to allow a film oil accumulate on the mains and rods. The rattle is either a broken guide and upon start up the engine has to build pressure to allow the tensioner to remove excess slack, even on engines with unbroken guides you may have initial start up rattle, its caused by the tensioners backing into the housing a little and upon start up the thrust load on the chain from the crank allows some deflection until the guide rail supports it, most tensioners today have the piston machined with slots and a spiral spring to prevent the piston from being pushed back into the body of the tensioner allowing only a one-way outward motion. so it may always be apparent on these cars without that mechanism, but its no real worry as it won't cause any damage. people changed driving habits and adding all these sub systems are going over board is just my opinion. auto manufacturers soak these engines to -15 ambient air temps,-20 coolant-10` oil, start them and ramp them to peak power or torque for quite the duration of time. Audi did the same testing when these were developed so i wouldn't worry and start adding all this stuff. I bought the JHM intermediate timing kit with the updated guide and haven't worried since.

Not all accusumps are made for racing purposes or for start up purposes either. They can be used to keep constant oil pressure in a motor during a run period. With that said, I still agree it is not needed, and people just need to update their timing

[m-ys4]

ok, so you bought it for the pre oiling the motor before startup, not the chain fix. I got that, but if you do get the electric valve switch and leave it on while driving isn't it still flowing until it is shut off by the switch? Overall aren't there benefits from this system using it daily?

[aroderick56]

If you leave the switch on, the only thing it will do is match the current oil pressure of the motor. So if oil pressure drops, so will the pressure in the accusump.

The electric switch is not made to run all the time. That is what the EPC switch was designed for. It will only release oil in your accusump when you go below a certain oil pressure set by the valve.

[kevinye77137]

My only purpose of buying an accusump is to extend my engine life for another extra 30k miles if that is possible. I know that it is a bandaid for it and i will need to do the timing chain service eventually. As a college student I have no money for a timing chain service as it cost more than my tuition. As I read online, 80% of engine wear comes from startups. As for now, I have used the cutoff switch on the fuel pump method to preoil the engine with the starter to minimize the noise and it works 90% of the time with no rattle in cold startups. im willing to drop 400 dollars now than couple of grand just for an extended life and a peace of mind

[m-ys4]

Totally understand lol. it would be nice to have even after the timing chain service, I think I would buy it regardless.

[aroderick56]

I want to point out as well the guy who posted the DIY for the accusump is not the proper way to run the accusump. The line to the rear of the filter housing is too small. The lines really need to be a -10an line. I have JHM's oil cooler kit so I was able to use a tee fitting in that line for my accusump and stay at a -10an line. I was able to run accusump's suggested check valve as well in the lines

Like such...

[kevinye77137]

I want to point out as well the guy who posted the DIY for the accusump is not the proper way to run the accusump. The line to the rear of the filter housing is too small. The lines really need to be a -10an line. I have JHM's oil cooler kit so I was able to use a tee fitting in that line for my accusump and stay at a -10an line. I was able to run accusump's suggested check valve as well in the lines

Like such...

Canton also sells the modified oil filter cap just for accusump. I sent an email asking if it fits in our engines and they said yes.
Link to the oil filter cap : https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...DI-FILTER-CAP/

[aroderick56]

I completely forgot about the cap they made for our cars so yes that is another option for the oil line

[m-ys4]

so the only thing he did wrong is install a smaller line? How difficult was it to install? I see the DIY it doesn't look to difficult but some of the pictures are unclear to me

[kevinye77137]

so the only thing he did wrong is install a smaller line? How difficult was it to install? I see the DIY it doesn't look to difficult but some of the pictures are unclear to me

Yes the hole is too small but for just the startup rattle it should be fine. since the oil filter cap is available now it should be easy to install. The most difficult part is to mount the accusump.

[m-ys4]

Whats the benefit of the cap? Does this mean we domt have to install the line at the back/bottom of the oil filter housing?


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[SquiddyB6S4]

Remember, though, that if you install the line on the top of the oil filter housing cap, you will have to remove the line every time you change your oil. The inconvenience wouldn't bother me as much as having to remove the line over and over again, and possibly introduce a leak over time as you wear out the fitting threads, or if you forget to tighten or seal them properly, or overtighten them, etc. The oil filter housing has a piston seal style o-ring installation and the drain nut has a soft crush washer, both intended to be replaced each usage, to prevent issues with repeated loosening and tightening of the liquid tight seals.

[m-ys4]

I was thinking about that the other day, I would just install it the regular way

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[Dirtracer603]

Good gosh people. An Accusump: hides the true issue and simply delays the inevitable.

[m-ys4]

We knew this already lol


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[m-ys4]

Ive seen a few cases where some people have done the timing service and they still have gotten the rattle in short time. Why not use this even after the service just to prevent any possible future damage that could come up again?


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[kevinye77137]

Good gosh people. An Accusump: hides the true issue and simply delays the inevitable.

That is the exact purpose of the accusump for me at least. To delay the time of dropping 6k+ on timing chain service.

Dropping $500 to go for an extra couple thousand miles is worth it for a DD

[m-ys4]

Kevin, did you perform the install yourself? Was it difficult? The instructions seem straight forward, just the fishing and wiring I'm concerned about.

[kevinye77137]

Kevin, did you perform the install yourself? Was it difficult? The instructions seem straight forward, just the fishing and wiring I'm concerned about.

Yes I will be installing it myself. I dont have it yet but once i get my paycheck i will buy it. Im planning on buying the oil filter cap for accusump as well since my stock one is stripped out. It looks pretty straight forward to install. pretty much hooking things up. My concern is how am I going to mount the accusump on top of the intake manifold. Good thing there are mounting holes for the audi engine cover. Same as the DIY. Instead of buying the electronic valve, i will buy the manual cable valve and fish it to the cabin for lower cost. Works the same way but I will have to manually open and close the accusump to retain pressure. I will close the valve right after pressure has reached its peak so there will be barely any heat in the accusump.

[m-ys4]

ill probably buy the electronic one just so I don't have to open the hood each time I want to start it up, I don't think ill buy the oil cap just cause of what a pain it comes to be during oil changes. Also, how are you going to mount it? I've been told by a local performance shop that it definitely shouldn't be ontop of the manifold.

[aduggs]

ill probably buy the electronic one just so I don't have to open the hood each time I want to start it up, I don't think ill buy the oil cap just cause of what a pain it comes to be during oil changes. Also, how are you going to mount it? I've been told by a local performance shop that it definitely shouldn't be ontop of the manifold.

I relocated the battery to the trunk in place of the stupid satellite radio plastic thing on the driver side. That will give you barely enough room to fabricate a mount in there (I attached it to the strut tower reinforcement bar). There is a large rubber grommet that you can easily remove to run the AN line through the bottom of the firewall.

[m-ys4]

can you take a picture of this setup? I was thinking the same thing last night.

[aduggs]

can you take a picture of this setup? I was thinking the same thing last night.

Haha that will be difficult since my car has been in the shop for months getting various things done (one of them being the timing service). Once I get it back, will try to upload some images.

[m-ys4]

sounds good. how much labor is the shop charging you? What timing kit did you buy?

[aduggs]

They charged $6.2k all in with the JHM intermediate kit (the cheaper one which has their cam adjuster sprocket). Anyway, they messed it up badly and it skipped timing - big mess So I'm getting a rebuilt engine put in with much fewer miles. Now I get to worry about cylinder wall scoring...

[m-ys4]

oh jeez how the hell did that end up happening? that's brutal man..

[aduggs]

oh jeez how the hell did that end up happening? that's brutal man..

Yea, brutal is right. I guess the piston head impacted a valve and broke it off in the cylinder. So it was bouncing around in there for awhile. That must have been a hell of sound/sight to witness.

[m-ys4]

that's strange how this would have happened from a timing chain service. so are they going to do a service on the new motor they are putting in?

[aduggs]

that's strange how this would have happened from a timing chain service. so are they going to do a service on the new motor they are putting in?

All the new timing kit parts will be transferred to the other engine. So should be good there.
Timing jump + interference engine = disaster.

[BCsniper]

Good gosh people. An Accusump: hides the true issue and simply delays the inevitable.

....funny how I was attacked when I said this from the very start of the Accusump debacle.

now it just about seems to be the consensus......also I've been waiting for a post of somebody saying their oil lines busted/leaked and they got oil everywhere or possibly even lost oil pressure due to a bad install. None of that ever seemed worth if to me just to put a bandaid on the car.

[aroderick56]

....funny how I was attacked when I said this from the very start of the Accusump debacle.

now it just about seems to be the consensus......also I've been waiting for a post of somebody saying their oil lines busted/leaked and they got oil everywhere or possibly even lost oil pressure due to a bad install. None of that ever seemed worth if to me just to put a bandaid on the car.

If you know how to properly make lines, then it isn't a problem lol

[kevinye77137]

Funny how all I get is negative replies when I know its not a "perm cure" for timing rattle but a delay for a timing job. I did say " prolong" on my first sentence. No one is able to answer my questions. Im going to cry to sleep now