S4 to RS3, would you do it? and why?

[USAFS4]

So I have a really good feeling (all I will say, so don't ask further) the US will be getting the RS3 sedan.

Would you trade your S4 for an RS3? 1) Yes, or 2) No

If so, then why?

I most certainly will. The likely price will be similar to the previous TTRS ($55k-$65) unless you go for the optional ceramic brakes ($70k for a small 4 door, hmmmm ok...Hell YES!!) I love my B8 for its abilities, but not for its soul. I came from a Stg 3 B5 S4, and while I traded out of its idiosyncrasies for a more comfy daily driver I've always regretted losing that something special I felt when driving my B5. I believe modern cars have gone numb, and certainly there is a chance that the RS3 could be more muted, but I believe it will bring back the magic. I'll gladly give up some back seat room, and most definitely the extra 500lbs, for a daily driver that truly can be driven to a track in stock form and perform without a limitation.

I believe the RS3 could quite possibly be the only car one would ever need, if what you need, is a car that can do everything. I'm sure I will add a little APR stg 2 or such to it, maybe even Stg 3 after the warranty ran out.

[bpang1]

I won't...I would consider trading up to an RS4 if they offered it.

Before I got my S4 I tried out the S3 and it was just too damned cramped for me. Also, I prefer the throttle response of the supercharged V6 over a turbo (at least in the S3 the turbo-lag is very apparent to me). I know the RS3 will come with the turbo 5 cylinder but after driving turbo 4 cylinders for the last 10 years I am done for a long while.

[jazza08]

Doesn't the RS3 still use haldex awd system? From my experience they are far less fun on the track being always understeer bias in stock form. It does have a brilliant engine though! Very tunable.

[acsgp]

If I didn't need the space, yes, purely for that wonderful inline-5.

And the Haldex system can be tuned using HPA's software.

[BernanksBeard]

Still haven't gotten into my S4 yet, so hard for me to make that decision... Don't wanna pay 50k+ for a 4 cylinder, though I love turbos. The turbo 5 is currently the motor I desire most, but just not in love with the haldex awd... I probably wouldn't trade s4 for rs3 but I'd love if my S4 had the rs3 turbo 5 engine.

[hotdog453]

Trade? Sure.

Buy an RS3? At 70kish? There's a lot of cars available for 70k. That'd be a fun comparison test drive though, cars available at 70k :P

[chaos2984]

Well what if they put an inline 5 turbo in the next gen S4? I was dead set on a S3 before they came out. I was going to do the European deliverly. But I went into the dealer last summer to get info and test drive an A3 just to get the feel of the interior and such before the S3 came out. Im glad I did because they gave me a steal of a deal on a new S4 that I wasn't even considering because of the price. I just didn't want to spend that much for a S4 at the time. But I didn't like the blind spots in the A3. Its ok with 1 person in it but when you have a passenger over 5'5'' good luck trying to change lanes to the right you can see out the back window due to the seat having to be back far enough to make the passenger comfortable. My B5 S4 wasn't like that at all. I didn't like the rocker switches for the MMI either as compared to the S4's buttons.

I don't know if I would change for an RS3 but I would give it a look and see whats new with it. It might come out as a face lift model and they might change the interior a little like they did with the S4. So im not going to just rule it out. But I don't know if it does hit 7xK you might want to look a little higher and get the Porsche caymen gt4 if you don't care about the back seats.

[Shamu]

will the RS3 come in 6MT? key decision variable for me...

[drob23]

Well what if they put an inline 5 turbo in the next gen S4?

Highly doubtful, I thought the I5 was a transverse application. Don't know if there's room in the MLB for that engine.

[KRp220]

re: I5, this article speculates and updated version or the 3.0 http://www.worldcarfans.com/11502098...-and-taillight
as the the RS3, i'd probably jump on one. i dont really need the room. if it looks better than the S4 and still has a 6MT...

[USAFS4]

re: I5, this article speculates and updated version or the 3.0 http://www.worldcarfans.com/11502098...-and-taillight
as the the RS3, i'd probably jump on one. i dont really need the room. if it looks better than the S4 and still has a 6MT...

I'm concerned we will not see the RS3 with a manual. Interesting that but you can still get the S4 as manual. Maybe AoA will have a repeat of the TTRS and convince Ingolstadt to bring only the manual.

[Okan509]

I said yes,

but I doubt that will be my next move

RS cars are sweet, they are simply cooler than the S version - pretty simple

I have heard some really mediocre things about the RS3, though. Not sure if Audi is producing RS's (other than the 6/7) up to snuff with the competition.

[s4buckeye]

So I have a really good feeling (all I will say, so don't ask further) the US will be getting the RS3 sedan.

lol, what the hell is that?


weaksauce.

[boseephuss]

I would if only for the inline 5. But for 70k? As a guy who already cannot have anyone sit behind him in the S4 (6'6'') for that coin it would be the Hellcat, no question about it for me. Hell, I went stage 2 this week just to hopefully postpone the itch for the Hellcat anyway lol

[vj123]

I would not go for RS3. The engine and dynamic capabilities of the car might be extraordinary. But the interiors of A3 / S3 puts me off big time. Its small and i don think its gives the "premium feel" to me. Another big issue for me is not having manual transmission.

I could not even justify the price which one has to pay for A3 / S3. A3 is for people who wants to get into german premium luxury cars! But I cant see / define a market for S3 and RS3. Instead of paying 70k or even say 60k for an RS3, i would opt for a bare bones fun loving rwd car with stick ;)

[USAFS4]

I'm a bit surprised that many who have posted aren't tracking on the details of the car which has already been reviewed this past January.
Euro car is a transverse I5 turbo, Haldex AWD biased to rear capable of sending 100% to rear, with DSG trans only (no manual). And of course it's a wagon/hatchback but we will be getting it in sedan form.

Also it appears most are saying it is to small, and the dynamics don't make up for the an interior if it were that of the S3. And judging from the pictures of the review in January it appears there is little difference. Maybe I'm having a bit of a mid life crisis wanting a "hooligans" car. And why pay so much coin when the Ford RS will likely be very competitive for 20-30k less.

[drob23]

I'm a bit surprised that many who have posted aren't tracking on the details of the car which has already been reviewed this past January.
Euro car is a transverse I5 turbo, Haldex AWD biased to rear capable of sending 100% to rear, with DSG trans only (no manual). And of course it's a wagon/hatchback but we will be getting it in sedan form.

Also it appears most are saying it is to small, and the dynamics don't make up for the an interior if it were that of the S3. And judging from the pictures of the review in January it appears there is little difference. Maybe I'm having a bit of a mid life crisis wanting a "hooligans" car. And why pay so much coin when the Ford RS will likely be very competitive for 20-30k less.

With the way VAG does transverse AWD, there is no ability to send more torque to the rear than a 50/50 split. What is usually said, which I'm guessing is the source of your claim, is that under the correct conditions, the system can send 100% to the rear. Those conditions are the front axle being on ice, which is an idealization rather than normal function of the system.

[Jones2012s4]

Not bad at all. Wouldn't do it though.

[JMUNFORD]

No MT no go for me .. Especially a car that size.. I think the a3/s3 are just "ok" there just like mini Audis I couldn't see owning and taking a step down

[amz]

I voted yes, then I remembered it's a transverse engine which means FWD prmiarily with up to 50% RWD capabilities via the Haldex clutch, which is a no-go for me. I prefer mechanical diffs which react based on available traction, not a computer pooling each wheel "are you slipping? are you slipping? are you slipping?...HOLY TITS YOUR SLIPPING NO POWER FOR YOU!"

[USAFS4]

With the way VAG does transverse AWD, there is no ability to send more torque to the rear than a 50/50 split. What is usually said, which I'm guessing is the source of your claim, is that under the correct conditions, the system can send 100% to the rear. Those conditions are the front axle being on ice, which is an idealization rather than normal function of the system.

Well that is sneaky of them. So what about the new Ford RS? It is AWD and the claim it not only can send 100% to the rear but also 100% from side to side. They claim a lateral g of 1.0 or greater.

[USAFS4]

Is this poll working correctly? It's dead even.

[MrFunk]

No - through it looks like a really great package - only offered in Auto = big time FAIL

[USAFS4]

This is very interesting that the poll is evenly split.

[eurotic]

If it was a straight trade, then sure but trading my S4 in towards an RS3, I don't think so. I can't see spending that much on that car.

Was considering the S3 last year but decided against it after driving it...it just lacked something. Loved the looks and style of it, the size was good although terrible shoulder-check visibility, but it was the power delivery that left me baffled...it didn't drive like the specs would suggest. RS3 would be really cool and I'd love to test drive one to see what all the fuss is about for the 5 cylinder turbo, but I just can't see it being so much better than the S3 to justify the extra spend.

The auto-only thing isn't a deal breaker for me as it sounds like my current S4 is the last Audi I will ever own that has a manual trans (since Audi says that's the way it is), so it's either take the auto or find another brand.

[4RCFED]

I would if it was a bit cheaper and came as a hatch

[Okan509]

With the focus RS coming, I can't see this beating that.

and honestly, the interior isn't where it needs to be in comparison to the focus RS either, I may even prefer the focus..

[USAFS4]

With the focus RS coming, I can't see this beating that.

and honestly, the interior isn't where it needs to be in comparison to the focus RS either, I may even prefer the focus..

I believe I'm seeing a pattern here. In the face of competition like the Ford Focus RS (I wonder if Audi was tracking on this car), it is going to be very hard to justify the extra coin for the RS3 if the interior remains as it has been advertised. So give us a manual option and boost the output another 20hp/tq for the US version as per the previous TTRS US-spec was, and then it can't really exceed 60k, plus you need to include the new TT interior.

Scott Keogh, are you listening?

[Tanner]

What's the chance of the RS3 coming here? Probably small if not none? No manual transmission is a deal breaker for me. The Haldex 5 isn't too much of a concern now, the ECU for the Haldex does more than just wait for slip before it sends the torque to whatever wheel based on various sensors. Top Gear had a ride in the RS3 prior to it being announced officially and they commented on how the RS3 was so easy to drift. Couldn't do that in earlier versions of Haldex.

Having said that, unless Audi reverses it's decision on DSG only on all S-cars, the B8 S4 will probably be the last S car I own. It has to be a manual for me, until the day I can't shift myself. So the Focus RS is an interesting option that is on the short list on what car to get after the S4.

[s4buckeye]

I believe I'm seeing a pattern here. In the face of competition like the Ford Focus RS (I wonder if Audi was tracking on this car), it is going to be very hard to justify the extra coin for the RS3 if the interior remains as it has been advertised. So give us a manual option and boost the output another 20hp/tq for the US version as per the previous TTRS US-spec was, and then it can't really exceed 60k, plus you need to include the new TT interior.

Scott Keogh, are you listening?

lol man. AoA does not listen to people on here and to think that AoA or VAG would upgrade the interior and hp output based upon 29 posts on an obscure, enthusiast website is laughable.

I am all for the squeaky wheel, but to think that any manufacturer is going to bring a manual here on a super low production car at this point is just stupid. you can't even get an F-car in a manny any longer unless it is special ordered. VaG gave up on the the enthusiast crowd long ago, so all of this is just a pipe dream, passing of the time and wishful thinking. When the A3 can be sold en masse to the lemmings with a nice fat margin the RS3 is nothing more than a loss leader to keep the wannabe purists engaged and in the brand so their significant others can drive a Q5.

that is all.

[jl87]

boost the output another 20hp/tq for the US version as per the previous TTRS US-spec was

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the TTRS 360hp/343tq? The new RS3 currently has 362hp/343tq?

[MrFunk]

lol man. AoA does not listen to people on here and to think that AoA or VAG would upgrade the interior and hp output based upon 29 posts on an obscure, enthusiast website is laughable.

I am all for the squeaky wheel, but to think that any manufacturer is going to bring a manual here on a super low production car at this point is just stupid. you can't even get an F-car in a manny any longer unless it is special ordered. VaG gave up on the the enthusiast crowd long ago, so all of this is just a pipe dream, passing of the time and wishful thinking. When the A3 can be sold en masse to the lemmings with a nice fat margin the RS3 is nothing more than a loss leader to keep the wannabe purists engaged and in the brand so their significant others can drive a Q5.

that is all.

Porsche listened...

[roadkillrob]

I might consider it, but would depend on the B9. My biggest issues with the A3/S3 having driven a few of them is that it feels like what it is, a lower market cheaper car - the interior is not as nice (although I really like the dash vents, then look and feel high quality). The car is not as quiet, you can feel where they saved money building it, harsher and noisier. My other big issue is the trunk is much much much smaller than the A4/S4 I had one as a loaner for a week and typically things I throw in the S4 come no where close to fitting in the A3/S3. From the S4 it is a downgrade, but for the money it is a nice car and I am sure it will do what it was intended to do - pull Japanese buyers into Audi dealers as they can get in an A3 or S3 for Japanese money.

[hodrosS42001]

There's a lot of weird comments in this thread.

There is a better than not chance of a variant of the RS3 coming to the United States. The last generation sold, a ton more then Audi had estimated.. And this car will sell even better. There is a lot of competition brewing in the U.S market.. With small "hot" cars.. Such as the Cla45amg, the soon to be M2 and Focus RS.

Now with that said, there isn't many reports or test drives on the new RS3 so it's hard to judge what the car is going to be like.. What we do know is it's DSG only. It comes with a famous engine.. That sounds amazing, creates great power, and has a ton of heritage. Also easily modifiable. We know the car utilizes the new Haldex system, which for some reason people put down as not being good as torsion but it's perfectly fine in 200k cars.. And it's fine on the Veyron.. Etc. Not sure why it has a horrible stigma associated with it. It's light, tuneable, adaptive, light and quick.

In a comparison between an RS3 and a S4.. They are different cars with different focuses. One is a small hot hatch meant to be a thrill to drive and have an essence of Audi heritage with the engine.. The S4 is a luxury sedan meant to target a wide audience that wants a sportier than normal daily driver.

So is one better than the other? It deepens on what you want as the driver and owner, but I don't think they are very comparable.

[Portlander]

I would and probably will purchase an RS5 next unless the B9 really bumps up the horsepower numbers. The only thing I don't like about the V8 in the RS5 is the low torque output. The S3/RS3 is just too small and will always be perceived as entry level in my opinion.

[s4buckeye]

Porsche listened...

Porsche listened to who? You mean the 7 people clamoring for an all out Cayman? have you owned a P-car or do you even follow the P-car boards?

Porsche had this in the works for some time and has a totally different demographic to sell to with this car at that price point. Apples and oranges as there is no A3/A4 comparison in an all coupe/SUV/Pana line up. This is a very limited run car for purists - a demo that Porsche can and will cater to. Although Audi and Porsche are part of VAG, Audi is not Porsche.

the GT4 is great, but an RS3 coming here in terms of the new GT4 launch would be the equivalent of the following scenario: Audi sells an all out RS4/RS5 sedan/coupe here in the US (like a Pana S/911 S) and at the time there is only an A4 (up to an S-Line) (the comparo to the Cayman) and then Audi finally makes an S4 with a manual and ceramic brakes. What's your point? That's not what Audi is doing.


Audi should sell a full line of RS cars (coupes, hatches, sedans and wagons) here in the US. They are desirable and they would sell a few. However, VAG is a marketing and manufacturing giant and they know what sells and what does not - and the R cars do not sell well in the US. Keep in mind "selling out" of a limited number brought here is not the same as "selling well" at all. It is all about the cost/benefit analysis and VAG has run it to be sure.

[roadkillrob]

There's a lot of weird comments in this thread.

There is a better than not chance of a variant of the RS3 coming to the United States. The last generation sold, a ton more then Audi had estimated.. And this car will sell even better. There is a lot of competition brewing in the U.S market.. With small "hot" cars.. Such as the Cla45amg, the soon to be M2 and Focus RS.

Now with that said, there isn't many reports or test drives on the new RS3 so it's hard to judge what the car is going to be like.. What we do know is it's DSG only. It comes with a famous engine.. That sounds amazing, creates great power, and has a ton of heritage. Also easily modifiable. We know the car utilizes the new Haldex system, which for some reason people put down as not being good as torsion but it's perfectly fine in 200k cars.. And it's fine on the Veyron.. Etc. Not sure why it has a horrible stigma associated with it. It's light, tuneable, adaptive, light and quick.

In a comparison between an RS3 and a S4.. They are different cars with different focuses. One is a small hot hatch meant to be a thrill to drive and have an essence of Audi heritage with the engine.. The S4 is a luxury sedan meant to target a wide audience that wants a sportier than normal daily driver.

So is one better than the other? It deepens on what you want as the driver and owner, but I don't think they are very comparable.

I totally agree with this, the S3/RS3 is just a different car for different needs!

Haldex gets a bad rap for a reason, Torsen is built to be a rear biased system and has more sporting intentions - it isn't perfect and they the RS5 has a planetary gear set now (most major shortcoming is that if you have absolutely no traction on one axle, the Torsen will not transfer power to the other axle). The big issue with Haldex is that it a front wheel drive on demand AWD system, so basically you get a front drive car and all the ill handling traits of a front wheel car (Haldex only sends 5% of power to rear until front traction is lost and relies on wheel sensors to determine that - Torsen requires no electronics to detect traction loss for better smoother transitions), so you get the traits of overpowering the front wheels, power transfer to the front on deceleration and a lot of poor handling traits. Think of a typical Haldex system as a front wheel drive car that has better traction, but still essentially a front drive car.

[EBS4]

I'd pass for a couple of reasons. The 5 cylinder cars I've driven are just never very refined...then the looks of the S3/RS3 are not to my liking (too much like an economy car in proportion) and then there's the interior. No doubt it will be a cool car and I'd be a buyer at $40k (even if it had a little less performance). At $70k I'd be going M3/4 all day long without a second thought.

EBS4

[emnahum]

RS3 too small for me and my family. No MT. No Torsen.

[Tweakophyte]

Need a MT and an interior that matches the price.