Should I go with GIAC or APR for my B8?

[chi123]

I know there's tons of info out there comparing these two but after searching, I've become more indecisive. I've only had my S4 for two months but I already got a Roc-Euro intake and AWE Track exhaust for performance mods. Now I want a tune. So my understanding is that for both, I have to remove my ECU and sent it to APR or GIAC for tuning? I just had a few questions for owners to help me decide but I'm just looking for whichever one puts out the most power really. My car is 6MT as well.

Which is more user-friendly? I want a tune for 93 octane and 100 octane but how do you switch between them with either tune?

What's the highest HP numbers for APR and GIAC for those who gotten a dyno done? Not the numbers posted by APR or GIAC but from actual users. 1/4 miles times would be great too but I usually see APR with better numbers.

And it is possible to switch it back to stock tune without losing the tune?

[EWM AMIN]

Chi...

As it stands, GIAC has the fastest trap speed at 11.5 seconds on the drag strip. They also have a DSG tune, and have mulitple versions, they have been around the block, it'll be reliable.

APR, I'll let somebody else comment on this, my experience (I used to have their STG 2+) is quite biased, and very negative, they have been working on a DSG tune for over 6-7 months.

Revo, they also offer a reliable tune, and have a DSG tune

All above vendors offer an ability to switch the tunes yourself with a small OBDII device, I can't remember if EMCS supports changing the tune file, but there is APR mobile (Which is just a bluetooth OBDII device)

Unitronic, after leaving APR, I decided to go with Unitronic for a few reasons. I have been challenged on my opinion, however there is data that proves this tune is much more aggressive, again no DSG tune, but its coming SOON, and these guys have an excellent reputation, huge in the Vdub market as well. They will be issuing Uniconnect shortly as well, which will allow you to change between tunes.


Advise wise... Go with a tuner that is close to you, supports you well, and takes the time to listen to your concerns. most importantly

!!!DO NOT ASSUME THAT FLASHING BACK TO STOCK WILL PROTECT YOU FROM TD1 STATUS!!!

Even if you switch back to stock, they can tell that the file has been modified with a new timestamp. I consider flashing back to stock to be a "smoke screen" of sorts. It might work, or you may have an Audi tech who is also a clairvoyant.



(Also, search the forums sir.. this has been discussed, MANY times).

[Sean@APR]

Even if you switch back to stock, they can tell that the file has been modified with a new timestamp.

No, they can't. ECUs don't contain a real time clock, therefore, they cannot possibly apply a timestamp to anything. Further, they also don't have a filesystem. Without a filesystem, there's nowhere to put a timestamp anyway.

[JMUNFORD]

Revooooooo

[audiyyc]

No, they can't. ECUs don't contain a real time clock, therefore, they cannot possibly apply a timestamp to anything. Further, they also don't have a filesystem. Without a filesystem, there's nowhere to put a timestamp anyway.

So does this mean if you flash back to stock there is no way for them to tell?

[cobrario]

So does this mean if you flash back to stock there is no way for them to tell?

In my conversations with Revo HQ they will not guarantee you won't get flagged if you flash to stock -but what they did tell me is that they've yet to have a car throw a TD1 that has been flashed stock. (I'm guessing it's the same for APR/GIAC)

[chi123]

Chi...

As it stands, GIAC has the fastest trap speed at 11.5 seconds on the drag strip. They also have a DSG tune, and have mulitple versions, they have been around the block, it'll be reliable.

APR, I'll let somebody else comment on this, my experience (I used to have their STG 2+) is quite biased, and very negative, they have been working on a DSG tune for over 6-7 months.

Revo, they also offer a reliable tune, and have a DSG tune

All above vendors offer an ability to switch the tunes yourself with a small OBDII device, I can't remember if EMCS supports changing the tune file, but there is APR mobile (Which is just a bluetooth OBDII device)

Unitronic, after leaving APR, I decided to go with Unitronic for a few reasons. I have been challenged on my opinion, however there is data that proves this tune is much more aggressive, again no DSG tune, but its coming SOON, and these guys have an excellent reputation, huge in the Vdub market as well. They will be issuing Uniconnect shortly as well, which will allow you to change between tunes.


Advise wise... Go with a tuner that is close to you, supports you well, and takes the time to listen to your concerns. most importantly

!!!DO NOT ASSUME THAT FLASHING BACK TO STOCK WILL PROTECT YOU FROM TD1 STATUS!!!

Even if you switch back to stock, they can tell that the file has been modified with a new timestamp. I consider flashing back to stock to be a "smoke screen" of sorts. It might work, or you may have an Audi tech who is also a clairvoyant.



(Also, search the forums sir.. this has been discussed, MANY times).

I'm leaning towards GIAC due to their pricing and now that you mentioned a GIAC tuned S4 has the fastest 1/4 mile time. However, the dealer I purchased my car from is an authorized APR dealer and Unitronic has a dealer close by too. Only downside for me seems that APR is the most expensive and the guy at the dealer I bought my car from isn't all that helpful. With Unitronic, it's the cheapest but it's still a new tune.

And what's TD1? Not too familiar since this is my first Audi and I'm out of warranty anyways due to miles and got lots of mods already.

[audiyyc]

In my conversations with Revo HQ they will not guarantee you won't get flagged if you flash to stock -but what they did tell me is that they've yet to have a car throw a TD1 that has been flashed stock. (I'm guessing it's the same for APR/GIAC)

That is good to know. I am thinking of going with the Unitronic Stage 1+ soon here. Thanks for the info.

[boseephuss]

You can also do EPL and flash it yourself, without a dealer. Not sure if the deal is still going, but the Stage 2 with the pulley AND the cord to flash it yourself was $1,100 shipped.

[saxon]

As of right now the top two are apr and giac, both with cars less than 1/10 of a second apart in the 1/4 mile.

No "need" for a dsg tune on a b8, however to get giac's strongest file they require you to get their dsg flash. This is not the case with apr making it the cheaper choice

[chi123]

As of right now the top two are apr and giac, both with cars less than 1/10 of a second apart in the 1/4 mile.

No "need" for a dsg tune on a b8, however to get giac's strongest file they require you to get their dsg flash. This is not the case with apr making it the cheaper choice

Mine is manual so no need for the transmission software for me at least.

[EWM AMIN]

As of right now the top two are apr and giac, both with cars less than 1/10 of a second apart in the 1/4 mile.

No "need" for a dsg tune on a b8, however to get giac's strongest file they require you to get their dsg flash. This is not the case with apr making it the cheaper choice

I have a buddy who has the GIAC v2 tune as I mentioned before. He flashed his car back to stock went to the dealer, they hooked his car up to the diagnostics tool, which said the checksum date was different then original factory. TD1

I just called an APR dealer in Toronto here, and he also confirms this "Flashing back to stock can be detected". You're also welcome to speak to him, I will PM you his info if you say so.

You also understand that APR has YOUR file located on their network. EVEN if they flash you with their "BIOS" for their ECU. IT IS RECORDED.

You can argue the fact that if you're buddy buddy with your dealer, you might be able to get away with it. But in Canada, Audi will hook your car to a computer EVEN ON your FIRST oil change to determine if anything was even PLUGGED IN to the vag com.

So unless you can prove otherwise, or any tuner states "IF YOU ARE TD1 when flashing back to stock, your money back"

Or we can bet your S4.. actually on second thought, why would I want a car that doesn't run 11.5? :)

Maybe it's different for B8.5's?

[AzWildCat04]

Dont do it. It makes the car slower;)

[canucks117]

I am going to go with Unitronic. Their stock to stage 2 software with pulley is 1600 canadian... so I save around 500 bucks compared to stage 2 of apr and 1000 bucks compared to giac stage 2 (since DSG software is required at my dealer). Unitronic their BHP is rated at 450hp and 385 torque. (thats not including the exhaust and intake you may choose to install.

[creativecody]

So does this mean if you flash back to stock there is no way for them to tell?

I have a b8.5 APR Stage 2+ and have successfully flashed back to stock many times and gone to the dealer with no TD1.

[mrmomo313]

Fastest b8's are tuned with GIAC and APR. Leaderboards tell the story. You can't go wrong with either of those for your b8. You don't have to send your ecu in anymore. Like mentioned previously, search man there is soooo much good info on here regarding both of those tunes. The new guys on the block have nothing to show other than some cute dyno sheets... I care about how the cars run on the street. Giac and apr have both proven their tunes work on the street/strip. apr still can't tune those 2014+ cars but that doesn't apply to you

[EWM AMIN]

Hey I just confirmed with an ex employee for Audi, who has opened his own shop, and is now an APR dealer... Long story short: I was wrong about the checksum... But right that they could find you.


However, what he explained to me was this:

Audi dealerships have the ability to read a counter, which indicates how many times a car has been flashed, and they can measure this against how many times they have indeed flashed you. If this number doesn't add up, they will flag you.

Now he did say, if you had a "connect" at the dealer, they wouldn't report it. But can they see it, they most certainly can.

BTW Saxon.. Do you work for APR? Im not sure they offer the most cost effective option anymore, un;ess you're getting an employee discount of sorts :)

[Usa]

No, they can't. ECUs don't contain a real time clock, therefore, they cannot possibly apply a timestamp to anything. Further, they also don't have a filesystem. Without a filesystem, there's nowhere to put a timestamp anyway.

I just flashed back to stock from my APR tune today at a certified dealer from your website. I'll be giving it a day and then ill be going into the dealership this weekend so we'll see if the TD1 pops up or not.

[EWM AMIN]

I just flashed back to stock from my APR tune today at a certified dealer from your website. I'll be giving it a day and then ill be going into the dealership this weekend so we'll see if the TD1 pops up or not.

Sweet!

Keep us posted sir!

[BzzzBom]

I have had the APR Stage 2 tune on my B8.5 for about 18 months and have been very happy with the performance and support from APR. I previously had two GIAC tunes. They were both great tunes however GIAC was horrible when I ran into a problem.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...GIAC+nightmare

[bpang1]

I just flashed back to stock from my APR tune today at a certified dealer from your website. I'll be giving it a day and then ill be going into the dealership this weekend so we'll see if the TD1 pops up or not.

I also want to read what happens. It is almost hit or miss from reading posts on this thread whether or not you can go back and forth and be relatively sure you won't get flagged for TD1.

[BillyG]

In reading this post, I'm surprised that APR still hasn't quite figured out the 2014+ ECU as of yet. I was stage 2 APR in my 2010 S4 and it was amazing. I'm hoping that they get this figured out soon, as I recently placed an order for a 2015. I'd consider GIAC, but I have an APR dealer 10 miles from me, and would prefer to give him my business.

[espo4442]

Anyone have any times with solo's tune? Their numbers seem to be on par with GIAC....