Bosch injectors too short?

[zillarob]

I could see that on the big lb models, but these smaller ones are hard to make run funny.
I see them installed all sorts of ways and seems like you would have to put them in upside down in order to cause a problem.

[julex]

I could see that on the big lb models, but these smaller ones are hard to make run funny.
I see them installed all sorts of ways and seems like you would have to put them in upside down in order to cause a problem.

I've seen people complaining about dirt and carbon on outer intake valves when using ev14 injectors (117 unmolested) and I bet that it was due to clocking of injectors being random. When clocked properly, they will spray into all three holes and result in clean valves vs some valves never getting any fuel.

If I still had my previous 298 setup I would now go, move a couple to wrong orientation and do some pull to see if timing retard changed on cylinders I did that too... it would be an interesting experiment!

[bobkatkat]

Thanks Julex and airjawed for making the injector clocking very clear. I will be double checking tomorrow. Maybe it will not make a big difference with 72lbs other than making sure all valve receive equal cleaning.

[Wagonholic]

Got lost in all the comments...what's the proper orientation for the 550cc EV14's? Connectors facing towards the sides of the car?

If using injectors with hats and clips do I clip the injector to the injector hat or the injector hat to the fuel rail?

Decided to go with the hats because I don't want any more problems with the install lol.

[julex]

Got lost in all the comments...what's the proper orientation for the 550cc EV14's? Connectors facing towards the sides of the car?

You got it, driver side injectors connectors facing driver side of car (driver head), passenger faces passenger side.

If using injectors with hats and clips do I clip the injector to the injector hat or the injector hat to the fuel rail?

I would guess rail to hat, or rather you should really get extra set of clips and clip injecor to hat and them rail to hat (so two clipts per injector, if at all possible!) as clipping only half of connections is a good as not using clips at all.

[topquarkpc]

what do these clips look like?
i may need some...to prevent future occasional leaks...

[julex]

what do these clips look like?
i may need some...to prevent future occasional leaks...

The ones that hold stock injectors to stock rail.

[topquarkpc]

hm...ok...i'll take a look at my wife's car since i believe i do not have them on my car...

[Meow]

thanks for the info on spray pattern julex. My testing was pretty barbaric for finding what worked, I did not know the spray pattern. I have noticed some carbon build up on my outer valves so that could be an explanation for it.

[bobkatkat]

thanks for the info on spray pattern julex. My testing was pretty barbaric for finding what worked, I did not know the spray pattern. I have noticed some carbon build up on my outer valves so that could be an explanation for it.

OK Now that we agree that connectors facing out is the best way, how do you get them to clock? I was just trying to clock one and the connector and adapter interfere with the head?

[julex]

OK Now that we agree that connectors facing out is the best way, how do you get them to clock? I was just trying to clock one and the connector and adapter interfere with the head?

MY set had two of the adapters in plug-wire-plug configuration which allowed me to clock them right when installed at the most-rear cylinders where PCV breather port would interfere with normal one-piece adapters. The rest of adapters were one-piece things which worked just fine in the mid and front locations.

[bobkatkat]

MY set had two of the adapters in plug-wire-plug configuration which allowed me to clock them right when installed at the most-rear cylinders where PCV breather port would interfere with normal one-piece adapters. The rest of adapters were one-piece things which worked just fine in the mid and front locations.

Thanks. Looks like with the hats I will need to make up some wired adapters or for all of the injectors to get them clocked properly. I guess i might as well just hard wire the EV14 connectors in.

[Meow]

Thanks. Looks like with the hats I will need to make up some wired adapters or for all of the injectors to get them clocked properly. I guess i might as well just hard wire the EV14 connectors in.

ive seen people clock them about 60 degrees from the rail to clear the breather ports, but they make wire connectors rather than hard plastic short connectors that a lot of people use to adapt ev14s to stock fuel injector harness.

[bobkatkat]

ive seen people clock them about 60 degrees from the rail to clear the breather ports, but they make wire connectors rather than hard plastic short connectors that a lot of people use to adapt ev14s to stock fuel injector harness.

I have started to make another set of adapters out a set of the short hard plastic ev1-ev14 connectors. I tried just making one out of a blank female EV14 plug end but it still did not give me great clearance. The ones I am making out of the short connectors will be really short cut almost in half and have the wires cumming out the top at a 90 degree angle. The very short plug and the wires out at a 90 should give tones of room on all of the injectors to keep them all clocked at 90. I am going solder them into the main harness.

[Zba]

Thanks for the graphic bobkatkat. The middle illustration is what we were experiening and we weren't happy with letting the injector o-ring kind of sit there. Got hats from apikol, spaced the fuel rail and everything is good, leak free and piece of mind.

Again, thanks everyone for the input; good stuff in here.

[bobkatkat]

Just an update to my making shorter injector harnesses to allow me to clock the injectors properly as Julex has indicated. With the hats all the injectors would be near impossible to clock properly for the spray pattern. The problem is the the EV1 To EV2 one piece adapters. I did try make a harness with a new blank EV14 style plug but that was even two long on 4 of the injectors. So here is the solution I made up by cutting up the Ford Racing adapters and rebuilding them shorter and with the wires coming out the top at a 90. The are now very compact and even will clear my massive silicone hoses on my Crank case vent system. Hopefully the image will be self explanatory.

[airjawed]

Yeah... I have wire type connectors and they are smaller but still have issues with clearance(valve cover on just some of them).

[01audia4]

Just an update to my making shorter injector harnesses to allow me to clock the injectors properly as Julex has indicated. With the hats all the injectors would be near impossible to clock properly for the spray pattern. The problem is the the EV1 To EV2 one piece adapters. I did try make a harness with a new blank EV14 style plug but that was even two long on 4 of the injectors. So here is the solution I made up by cutting up the Ford Racing adapters and rebuilding them shorter and with the wires coming out the top at a 90. The are now very compact and even will clear my massive silicone hoses on my Crank case vent system. Hopefully the image will be self explanatory.

You do some cool custom work, from carbon lips to injector clips. Kudos.

[zillarob]

Bob is like the canuk MacGeyver, fixes everything

[bobkatkat]

Bob is like the canuk MacGeyver, fixes everything

Little MacGyver? Or fat MacGyver?

[zillarob]

The little one that was badass and could fix audis

[hibiscusS4]

I Cant wait to put my ev14 injectors in :/
Sucks waiting on parts shipping

[zillarob]

Im with you there.
Ordered a set from ford and they sent me the tall ones.
Sounds like the standards are on some crazy backorder so god only knows how long its going to be before I can swap them.

Would have gotten them from Daz if I was smart.

[hibiscusS4]

I got my set from a guy here they ended up being the standard height
Just waiting on the electical clips. Maf and pump to arrive from o34

[zillarob]

Just so you know, its pretty much mandatory to hook the pump up backward the first time around.
On the 2nd go-round, the black wire is the +12v

[hibiscusS4]

Oh ya im aware of this i do way to much reading and tweaking for my own good haha.
Hopfully the aem pump installs nicely in the basket

[bobkatkat]

Here are some pics of my modified injector harnesses installed. As you can see with the hats installed you really do not have any room to clock the injectors with out doing a mod like I did. Even with the really short clips I had to install at a 90 and rotate into the proper position. As you can see from the pictures of the worst injector position due to the Valve cover vents, everything fits like a glove.

[bobkatkat]

Well after the first test drive after properly clocking the ev14 injectors, to Julex spec, I have to say that the idle is smoother and everything seems to be a bit smoother under light normal driving up to 2000-2500 cruising. But then again my DIY'er Butt Dyno tends to read a bit high especially immediately after a a bit of MacGyvering. I have been known to feel 40-50 WHP every Maf housing/intake redesign

[hibiscusS4]

So these clocked propperly wont fit?

[bobkatkat]

So these clocked propperly wont fit?

I could not get mine to turn all the way with the standard one piece Ford Racing Ev1-Ev14 adapters. Well I may have got 2 out f 6. As you can read above Julex and airjawed both used adapters with wire sections. And as you can see from my photos that there is very little room even with my mod.

[airjawed]

Well after the first test drive after properly clocking the ev14 injectors, to Julex spec, I have to say that the idle is smoother and everything seems to be a bit smoother under light normal driving up to 2000-2500 cruising. But then again my DIY'er Butt Dyno tends to read a bit high especially immediately after a a bit of MacGyvering. I have been known to feel 40-50 WHP every Maf housing/intake redesign

I felt the same thing... smoother at idle when clocked 90 to rail.

[vtraudt]

In this context: orientation for 1.8T?

[bobkatkat]

In this context: orientation for 1.8T?

90 degrees to the fuel rail with the connector facing out.

[vtraudt]

90 degrees to the fuel rail with the connector facing out.

Out means towards outside of car to drive side, away from engine?

[julex]

Out means towards outside of car to drive side, away from engine?

Think of it this way: connector must be facing away from runner at 90 angle to align spray in the right way.

[vtraudt]

Think of it this way: connector must be facing away from runner at 90 angle to align spray in the right way.

Ok, thanks. Away from runner/intake on 1.8T is facing towards engine (passenger side).

[julex]

this is the visual on this... Ev14 are very close to how original b5 RS4 injectors spray, plus minus one or two degrees except for that their connector to spray clocking is totally different and why they need to be at 90 degrees to runner facing away from them...

[MetalMan]

90 degrees to the fuel rail with the connector facing out.

Think of it this way: connector must be facing away from runner at 90 angle to align spray in the right way.

Hope you don't mind me barging in on the 1.8T discussion... haven't seen this sort of info in the B5 A4 or 1.8T forums before.
This is my 1.8T currently on Bosch 550cc EV14, clocked in stock configuration:




To have the "correct" spray pattern, would they need to be rotated 180 deg.?

[bobkatkat]

Looks like you have them right to me.

[julex]

Looks like you have them right to me.

yup. Default 1.8T clocking is right for Ev14, that's why you never hear anybody bitching about like I do...since it is very hard to do it wrong on 1.8T