"APR - Deception, Coverups, and Lies"

[cruzanstx]

Lol RSC 100% off sale.

[Jerry1847]

APR has apparently given up all hope of being a reputable vendor. Read this post, and a few later with some people starting to get enticed by the pricing, then FF to this one.

Could APR stop fucking up for a few days so we can deal with on poor decision at a time?

[ENV²]

Im guessing their tune on the B8 (not B8.5) is still the best one to go with correct?

[mr shickadance]

hah!

[amz]

Im guessing their tune on the B8 (not B8.5) is still the best one to go with correct?

Can't tell if sarcastic or real question....

[johnstah]

dang recently went APR stage 2+ hopefully bulletproof

[Goody489]

If I'm understanding this correctly Stage 1 is still just as good as ever but its when you move up to stage 2 and 3 that the parts and service become questionable? Sorry I'm a huge noob and was thinking of going stage 1. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated

[t3han0maly]

APR has apparently given up all hope of being a reputable vendor. Read this post, and a few later with some people starting to get enticed by the pricing, then FF to this one.

lol so APR's website and facebook page is now ebay?

[Wilbur]

I'll be pretty disappointed in AZ if they close this thread. The purpose of the forum is for enthusiasts to have open discussions about these and other issues pertaining to cars. Let's keep it respectful and see what happens.

A little late for that. You guys are running out of tuners................

[ojmcneill]

Wow, this seems so unreal! How can one company literally screw up so much and so many times in such a short period of time. Amazing.

[SDB666]

Too big to fail, right?

[infinkc]

Too big to fail, right?

stasis did.

[SDB666]

stasis did.

Oh I know. APR has been in the game a long time and has gotten lazy, sloppy and arrogant.

Here's to someone hungry and motivated to fill their shoes unless they get back to what made them what they are (were?).

[seanj130]

Same with a company called Kodak..

stasis did.

Too big to fail, right?

[Hansel]

Shouldn't lie and fuck your customers. In the end they are the ones who made them.

[mr shickadance]

Same with a company called Kodak..

lol what?

kodak failed because they failed to adapt to changes in technology

this is more a bit like when sketchers sold shape ups, where they made claims it would help tone the body but really they were false claims.

[seanj130]

Ah, the real reason is hidden. Kodak was doomed before the digital age. They were getting beat at making their featured product. Lets call it complacency.. Here is a great excerpt from Forbes..

"Kodak was failing to keep up even before the digital revolution when Fuji started doing a better job with the old technology, the roll-film business. With the complacency so rock-solid, and no one at the top even devoting their priorities toward turning that problem into a huge urgency around a huge opportunity, of course they went nowhere. Of course strategy sessions with the BIG CEO went nowhere. Of course all the people buried in the hierarchy who saw the oncoming problems and had ideas for solutions made no progress. Their bosses and peers ignored them."

lol what?

kodak failed because they failed to adapt to changes in technology

this is more a bit like when sketchers sold shape ups, where they made claims it would help tone the body but really they were false claims.

[infinkc]

lol what?

kodak failed because they failed to adapt to changes in technology

this is more a bit like when sketchers sold shape ups, where they made claims it would help tone the body but really they were false claims.

lol, like redbull losing to some guy calming he didnt grow wings.

[John@Roc-Euro]

lol, like redbull losing to some guy calming he didnt grow wings.

That was some of the most brilliant marketing/tactics I've seen. Did you see how that resolved? Anyone who purchased a redbull (no receipt or confirmation needed) since like... 2004? Can sign up to receive a $10 check from Redbull, or a gift certificate for $15 worth of Redbull product.

Every single person I have talked to /seen /read about knowing about that offer has opted for the $15 of product.

Lose in court? Because your product doesn't work? Give away the product.. the people rejoice!


Wild.

[DATZ]

Every single person I have talked to /seen /read about knowing about that offer has opted for the $15 of product.

I'd rather have a filthy nickel than $100 worth of Red Bull. Blech.

[mr shickadance]

Ah, the real reason is hidden. Kodak was doomed before the digital age. They were getting beat at making their featured product. Lets call it complacency.. Here is a great excerpt from Forbes..

"Kodak was failing to keep up even before the digital revolution when Fuji started doing a better job with the old technology, the roll-film business. With the complacency so rock-solid, and no one at the top even devoting their priorities toward turning that problem into a huge urgency around a huge opportunity, of course they went nowhere. Of course strategy sessions with the BIG CEO went nowhere. Of course all the people buried in the hierarchy who saw the oncoming problems and had ideas for solutions made no progress. Their bosses and peers ignored them."

kodak lost becuase they were at a crossroads. It was like they had 3 options to choose where to eat and instead of choosing one, they ended up bickering about it until they starved to death.

kodak had three choices

1) integrate the kodak namesake into up and coming smartphones (think - "check out my brand new iphone with the enhanced KODAK LENS!)

2) move towards higher end DSLR (ultimately I think they would still fail as canon and nikon largely own the market)

3) create a new market for the hipster-chic brand of film > digital (something very similar to those idiots who try and tell you vinyl is the supreme audio quality and analog signals are best) I am not saying they would be correct with this stance, but they could certainly push to develop a niche market for which they already have the market share to

basically from smartest from dumbest those are the three options kodak had and in the end they could not decide what to eat and when you don't eat you don't live.

[John@Roc-Euro]

kodak lost becuase they were at a crossroads. It was like they had 3 options to choose where to eat and instead of choosing one, they ended up bickering about it until they starved to death.

kodak had three choices

1) integrate the kodak namesake into up and coming smartphones (think - "check out my brand new iphone with the enhanced KODAK LENS!)

2) move towards higher end DSLR (ultimately I think they would still fail as canon and nikon largely own the market)

3) create a new market for the hipster-chic brand of film > digital (something very similar to those idiots who try and tell you vinyl is the supreme audio quality and analog signals are best) I am not saying they would be correct with this stance, but they could certainly push to develop a niche market for which they already have the market share to

basically from smartest from dumbest those are the three options kodak had and in the end they could not decide what to eat and when you don't eat you don't live.

Factor in that the "crossroads" they were at were already gnarly. I had an apartment across from their world HQ here.. and all I could think was "how much does that f*cking red light cost to keep on!?"

...it was really bright.

I suppose the hindsight question would be, At what point could Kodak have a) prevented collapse or b) corrected the course?
10 years prior? 5?

[bknewtype]

in reference to sketchers shape ups, they worked for my dad. he even hunted down a few discontinued pairs just to keep for the future. so YMMV

[mr shickadance]

Factor in that the "crossroads" they were at were already gnarly. I had an apartment across from their world HQ here.. and all I could think was "how much does that f*cking red light cost to keep on!?"

...it was really bright.

I suppose the hindsight question would be, At what point could Kodak have a) prevented collapse or b) corrected the course?
10 years prior? 5?

as soon as the first decent camera popped up on a cell phone (and I would think credit goes to iphone on that) pretty much killed the consumer portable camera.

at that point they should have had meetings to seriously discuss where their industry was going. executive management is hired and highly compensated to ensure that business stay afloat when industries change and they were incredibly lazy and even a bit negligent in taking action against that.

Once you saw the insane whirlwind popularity of the smart phone (which did take about a 2 years to really begin to blossom) there was more than enough time to make strategic moves.

for anyone in business courses at college if you ever have to do a case study, kodak is one of the easiest companies to write papers about. you will be captivated at how terrible their decisions were regarding their business.

but company's sink due to poor management all the time both public and private.

[seanj130]

HAY!

There were also behind on employ pensions by almost 3 billion before the digital camera age..

Factor in that the "crossroads" they were at were already gnarly. I had an apartment across from their world HQ here.. and all I could think was "how much does that f*cking red light cost to keep on!?"

...it was really bright.

I suppose the hindsight question would be, At what point could Kodak have a) prevented collapse or b) corrected the course?
10 years prior? 5?

[mr shickadance]

clearly we are getting a bit off topic, to bring it full circle, there were a number of poor decisions that led to kodak failing and we are seeing much of the same (on a smaller scale) with APR.

I am a firm believer that there is always a chance to do right by a customer and that if you put an honest sincere effort in righting the wrongs you tend to come out better than before. I mean really, APR was at a crossroads with this shitty exhaust situation and they had two options:

1) throw their supplier under the bus (a really poor business move considering any supplier in the future is going to be very wary of ever dealing with a company who at the drop of an exhaust is going to be immediatly thrown under the bus, so naturally that hurts them on the business side almost as much as being seen from a customer standpoint as a company who lacks a back bone)

2) own it, improve it, and make it right - the first thing should have addressed this issue with a brief but sincere apology, hell they could have claimed ignorance or even said "we cut these exhausts and we are in discussion with corsa to figure out whats going on" then they could have figured out a plan with exhaust sales, either pull them off the shelves or advertise them correctly. and lastly offer the people who felt burnt a little restitution. perhaps $200 of their next APR purchase or something that could have driven sales back into the company.

in the end, they really made some incredibly bone-headed business 101 mistakes and as a result they are likely going to suffer as a result. I doubt anyone who has knowledge over this would buy anything APR made.

[tonymy01]

as soon as the first decent camera popped up on a cell phone (and I would think credit goes to iphone on that) pretty much killed the consumer portable camera.

OT, but the Nokia N95 was probably a better example than the fruit product(it took considerably better quality too) and came out just before I believe.

[MerkurRS]

in the end, they really made some incredibly bone-headed business 101 mistakes and as a result they are likely going to suffer as a result. I doubt anyone who has knowledge over this would buy anything APR made.

You think so?
When GM was plastered all over the news about the issues with the faulty ignition switches and deaths from their cars just "shutting off, possibly causing loss of control" their sales were UP. So, taking a lesson from the GM marketing team; maybe all this hype about their allegedly crappy exhaust systems has caused more interest in what they do and increased sales too?
Would I buy a car from a company who hid information about a faulty part that resulted in over a dozen deaths? Hell no.
Will I buy something from a company that supposedly screwed someone else on an exhaust they marketed poorly? Possibly.

[mr shickadance]

You think so?
When GM was plastered all over the news about the issues with the faulty ignition switches and deaths from their cars just "shutting off, possibly causing loss of control" their sales were UP. So, taking a lesson from the GM marketing team; maybe all this hype about their allegedly crappy exhaust systems has caused more interest in what they do and increased sales too?
Would I buy a car from a company who hid information about a faulty part that resulted in over a dozen deaths? Hell no.
Will I buy something from a company that supposedly screwed someone else on an exhaust they marketed poorly? Possibly.

i think so, gm is completely different due to their size alone. majority of their sales come from new trucks, rental fleet, and some government vehicles, they had a killer truck line up and the impala had just been completely remodeled. the ignition recall hurt them for sure, but not in new car sales.

At the same time, GM has issued a massive recall, compensated families who have been damaged and issued a massive apology. they are a company who when it came to light made at least a tiny effort to right the situation.

apr....has not even made an apology yet.

[AKPS4]

It will be too late for any apologies and I believe APR is completely ignoring this continuing their business on other platforms. While this thread was developing APR (Arin) was positing videos in the C7 forum about new upcoming products, which appeared to be DP's or similar.

Completely ridiculous and in my opinion they just don't care.

[Nastybutler]

It will be too late for any apologies and I believe APR is completely ignoring this continuing their business on other platforms. While this thread was developing APR (Arin) was positing videos in the C7 forum about new upcoming products, which appeared to be DP's or similar.

Completely ridiculous and in my opinion they just don't care.

They probably think the mob is small enough they can ignore it, sweep it under the rug, and eventually everything will go back to normal. Sadly, they're probably right. I know I will never buy a hardware part from them (thanks AZ online vendors) but since the only tuner in my state is tied to APR, I'm still going to get any ECU tunes from them. And I'm fine with that since they do that well.

Frankly, I think they should focus on that and let Eurocode and others handle the hardware.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Johnnycash]

You think so?
When GM was plastered all over the news about the issues with the faulty ignition switches and deaths from their cars just "shutting off, possibly causing loss of control" their sales were UP. So, taking a lesson from the GM marketing team; maybe all this hype about their allegedly crappy exhaust systems has caused more interest in what they do and increased sales too?
Would I buy a car from a company who hid information about a faulty part that resulted in over a dozen deaths? Hell no.
Will I buy something from a company that supposedly screwed someone else on an exhaust they marketed poorly? Possibly.

im sorry but this is a terrible post. comparing general motors [ one of the biggest companies in the states] is apples and oranges when it comes to this type of conversation...

apr shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence for many different reasons. anyways i digress...

Will I buy something from a company that supposedly screwed someone else on an exhaust they marketed poorly? Possibly.

you are missing the whole point with this closing statement:

the fact that you would even support a company like this just based solely off of the responses and public relations in this thread alone says a lot about your moral compass and the overall effect of marketing and being marketed to.

all apr needs to do is clean up their mess, make shit right, and proceed going forward without pissing of their base and they might have a viable future...

none of which has been properly addressed as far as ive seen from the interactions in here.

[Spike00513]

They probably think the mob is small enough they can ignore it, sweep it under the rug, and eventually everything will go back to normal.

That is exactly what will happen, and what has happened before

[CrownSeven]

im sorry but this is a terrible post. comparing general motors [ one of the biggest companies in the states] is apples and oranges when it comes to this type of conversation...

apr shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence for many different reasons. anyways i digress...



you are missing the whole point with this closing statement:

the fact that you would even support a company like this just based solely off of the responses and public relations in this thread alone says a lot about your moral compass and the overall effect of marketing and being marketed to.

all apr needs to do is clean up their mess, make shit right, and proceed going forward without pissing of their base and they might have a viable future...

none of which has been properly addressed as far as ive seen from the interactions in here.

You've heard about APR's 'Clearance Sale' they've got going on for some VWRacing stock? The one where they emphatically stated the parts would come with a full VWR warranty? Even after VWR had to post a statement stating that there is NO WARRANTY because the parts they are selling are in poor condition and/or are older versions of products that had issues and are no longer being sold? Yeah APR - a real honest company that just made a 'mistake' with the exhausts, and another mistake with the VWR parts. I really don't understand how people can continue to support this company.

[Hansel]

How any of you guys would still consider spending a dollar with APR is almost laughable. Look at my stage 2 flash what I had to go through on that alone. In the end I got my money back after disputing it with American Express. Funny part is, the shop nor apr even responded to AMEX to try and rebuttal it.

I know why the shop didn't, cause he knew the flash didn't take on my car. Maybe tonight I'll post a picture of the quality of the carbon fiber intake tube. Which is another pice of shit with the apr name on it. Replaced with a eurocode. Which is much better.

[MerkurRS]

im sorry but this is a terrible post. comparing general motors [ one of the biggest companies in the states] is apples and oranges when it comes to this type of conversation...

apr shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence for many different reasons. anyways i digress...



you are missing the whole point with this closing statement:

the fact that you would even support a company like this just based solely off of the responses and public relations in this thread alone says a lot about your moral compass and the overall effect of marketing and being marketed to.

all apr needs to do is clean up their mess, make shit right, and proceed going forward without pissing of their base and they might have a viable future...

none of which has been properly addressed as far as ive seen from the interactions in here.

If you read all my posts, I have leaned more towards the support of APR because I am an optimist and believe in giving them the benefit of doubt AND many of the posts against them seem more like a "witch hunt and personal vendetta".....
THAT BEING SAID.....I DO AGREE that their marketing tactics for the exhaust are shady at best. The fact they didn't take ownership and threw the vendor under the bus (when APR's name is ON the product- they then own it!) is a major concern and certainly speaks volumes about their character and their ability to respond properly to their customers. To me, regardless if the allegations are true or not, the manner in which they ran over Corsa was terrible. That's like getting a bad cup of coffee at Starbucks and the barista blaming the bean roaster. (I know we all love analogies!)
I am not sure why the delay from corporate at this point- I do agree they should "man up" and "move on", then get back to business.

[drob23]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is this: what do you guys expect APR to do about this if they admit to any type of fault with the RSC? They are having massive financial problems, as would be indicated by the firesale of parts and all the lawsuits...so are they just supposed to say "sorry guys, we were wrong, but keep the faith!" Every single RSC owner (that has to be a shit load of people spread over tons of platforms) would probably expect payouts or want to return their products...no way in hell APR can handle that financially.

I know it's a stretch, but a better comparison would be Kia and Ford paying out to customers who got much worse MPG than their EPA stickers would indicate. In those cases, both Kia and Ford were technically not obligated to do so (since the EPA testing laws are self regulated and allow for various short cuts), but they did...mainly because they could afford to do so.

What this has done is pretty much expose APR for being snake oil salesman at best, deceivingly unethical at worst (I think criminal is a stretch)...the former seems to be commonplace in this industry (hence why so many fanboys of various tuners), and the thought was APR was always somehow above this, thus validating their excessive prices.

Look, of all the people here, I'd say people like myself with B8.5 Stg 2 DSG's have the most to lose with this all. No more support for flashes (APR going under: can I even be flashed stock and then back to tune file? doubt it), no new development on B8.5 tunes (my tune isn't exactly running flawlessly, while GIAC is releasing new builds and updates all the time for various B8/B8.5 tunes), no development on a DSG tune (seems this is on the back burner). And really no more development of any worth while products for our platform. I see the "new" APR focusing on the big volume products, like 2.0T tuning and hardware for the mk7 platform. All their halo products (stg 3 B8 S4, stg 3 4.2 1740 kits) are probably not financially viable at this point.

This is all my speculation, but APR hasn't shown us anything to the contrary over the last couple months...and crew has become a daily source of insider news about APR FAIL and how they've figured out to fuck over their customers yet again. Ugh.

[d.p]

They did it to themselves man.

Reap what you sow and unfortunately guys like you will probably pay the price.

What I don't understand is how a guy like Arin still has a job through all of this.

[eurotic]

That was some of the most brilliant marketing/tactics I've seen. Did you see how that resolved? Anyone who purchased a redbull (no receipt or confirmation needed) since like... 2004? Can sign up to receive a $10 check from Redbull, or a gift certificate for $15 worth of Redbull product.

Every single person I have talked to /seen /read about knowing about that offer has opted for the $15 of product.

Lose in court? Because your product doesn't work? Give away the product.. the people rejoice!


Wild.

Is that why their catch phrase (now?) spells wings as "wiings"?

[mr shickadance]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is this: what do you guys expect APR to do about this if they admit to any type of fault with the RSC? They are having massive financial problems, as would be indicated by the firesale of parts and all the lawsuits...so are they just supposed to say "sorry guys, we were wrong, but keep the faith!" Every single RSC owner (that has to be a shit load of people spread over tons of platforms) would probably expect payouts or want to return their products...no way in hell APR can handle that financially.

I know it's a stretch, but a better comparison would be Kia and Ford paying out to customers who got much worse MPG than their EPA stickers would indicate. In those cases, both Kia and Ford were technically not obligated to do so (since the EPA testing laws are self regulated and allow for various short cuts), but they did...mainly because they could afford to do so.

What this has done is pretty much expose APR for being snake oil salesman at best, deceivingly unethical at worst (I think criminal is a stretch)...the former seems to be commonplace in this industry (hence why so many fanboys of various tuners), and the thought was APR was always somehow above this, thus validating their excessive prices.

Look, of all the people here, I'd say people like myself with B8.5 Stg 2 DSG's have the most to lose with this all. No more support for flashes (APR going under: can I even be flashed stock and then back to tune file? doubt it), no new development on B8.5 tunes (my tune isn't exactly running flawlessly, while GIAC is releasing new builds and updates all the time for various B8/B8.5 tunes), no development on a DSG tune (seems this is on the back burner). And really no more development of any worth while products for our platform. I see the "new" APR focusing on the big volume products, like 2.0T tuning and hardware for the mk7 platform. All their halo products (stg 3 B8 S4, stg 3 4.2 1740 kits) are probably not financially viable at this point.

This is all my speculation, but APR hasn't shown us anything to the contrary over the last couple months...and crew has become a daily source of insider news about APR FAIL and how they've figured out to fuck over their customers yet again. Ugh.

I offerred a few suggestions but the more I think about it the more I would be inclined (if I were in APR's shoes) to offer two options

1) you can return the exhaust for a complete refund, however APR will not cover the shipping nor the uninstall (reasonable request) you would call APR, get an RMA number and handle it accordingly.

2) you can keep your exhaust but get a $200 (arbitrary number for example purposes)credit to APR products/software/etc.

those would be the two options and I would imagine there would be something like a 5/95 percent split as most people are not going to remove their exhausts and ship them back (its a hassle)

so it would be a bit of strategy in order to keep APR's finances in line, but still showing an offering and an apology.

Customers do not need to be given the world on the platter, but doing SOMETHING that at least points in the direction of "hey we screwed up, but this is our way of saying we are sorry"


also I believe regarding ford and kia they took preemptive actions and by cashing your check you were essentially waiving the right to sue regarding the mileage inaccuracies. I believe Ford and Kia were very generous as my friend got a check for like $600. I think a class action suit was in preparations but this is another prime example of top-notch risk management on both companies.

Even if the court case had no bearing there is still an obligation of weighing out the best course of action. Courts are historically very friendly with customers vs corporations so it's either 1) get ahead of this and pay out something or 2) rack up tremendous legals fees and maaaaaybe not pay out something.

smart company will take the least risky move, and they did.