Newest and biggest injector for the FSI

[ericpaulyoung]

They are running pretty well with the old RS4 constant, but their response dynamic is different. I will fine tune the response and what not shortly. I also swapped in the larger throttle body at the same time, so need to make sure that is working correctly too.

[ericpaulyoung]

The finished harness

[aluthman]

How do injection times compare to the S3s? Significant decrease or just a little bit?

[ericpaulyoung]

They look to be bigger than the S3, and they have none of the problems of the old RS4 injectors so far. I didn't have to jack up the lag and timing tables at all to get them to work like you have to do with the old RS4 injectors. I need to get the non-linearity figured out first, then I can tell you what the constant is.

[ericpaulyoung]

How do injection times compare to the S3s? Significant decrease or just a little bit?

I can tell you this, when I first slapped them in before I changed anything in the tune (it was still dialed in for the S3 injectors), I was pulling -19% to maxing out at -25% depending on the rpm and load.

[ericpaulyoung]

They fit great. They sit a little lower than the old RS4 (old on RS4 on the right and new RS4 on the left).

[aluthman]

This is good news me thinks.

[ericpaulyoung]

The constant is about 0.025990. So bigger than the S3 and a little smaller than the old RS4.

Now injector constants can change a bit depending on how you make other adjustments, but this is where I found a good balance with short term/long term fuel trims at -2.0% and 1.4% respectively. So it is pretty close. At full throttle, I am still pulling -9% fuel :) so I got more fuel for pushing into the low 30 psi boost range now. These things run smooth too. They make the engine transition different (smoother).

[mec]

The constant is about 0.025990. So bigger than the S3 and a little smaller than the old RS4.

Now injector constants can change a bit depending on how you make other adjustments, but this is where I found a good balance with short term/long term fuel trims at -2.0% and 1.4% respectively. So it is pretty close. At full throttle, I am still pulling -9% fuel :) so I got more fuel for pushing into the low 30 psi boost range now. These things run smooth too. They make the engine transition different (smoother).

Fuckin nectar!

[ericpaulyoung]

I think I know what you should use in your 5 cyl build ;) a little tough to source them because Audi will not sell them in the North American market, but you can get them from non authorized Audi parts dealers.

[Charles.waite]

Isn't Martins 2.5 a port injection engine? It's not DI right?

[aluthman]

Isn't Martins 2.5 a port injection engine? It's not DI right?

Yes, he has a port injected engine. AFAIK, only the TTRS 2.5 is DI.

[ericpaulyoung]

ah, didn't know that.

[mec]

PI FTW! lol I guarantee you to not have any fueling issues with a 2.5 :)

[mec]

2.5's do come with hangover issues tho, anyone who builds a 2.5 becomes fuckin sick, and just rages too hard always.

[canadianA4B7]

Reviving this for future builders. working on these units now. Hopefully I can track down a set and install with the EFR. More to come.

[p0isin]

[canadianA4B7]

Trying to push the platform as mr EPY used to. I know you'll be asking when I get this settled. And someone will end up with a set of s3 injectors with 2200 km on them.

[Charles.waite]

Thanks for reviving this. Simply having better flowing injectors would be a huge boon to making more power, easier and safer on this platform.

[canadianA4B7]

Your 100% correct and he has stated in multiple threads what he had done to tune with these. I'm not 100% sure how much benefit I will see on the 6758, but if it means running the engine clean on fuel alone then adding meth will be a huge success. I wish I could have coaxed Aluthman into getting a set for his car. But guys look into this. I've found sets of 4 for stupid cheap. $155-200 for 4 injectors, the harness from what I've found so far is a direct replacement from a TSI motor which motor I'm still searching for and may be listed in this thread.

The extra fuel could really be a game changer. Will keep updating as project progresses. First step is to get on the road at least with the S3 I have, then when these get delivered I will move on.

Thanx goes to james12lucy we've been chatting about this for months. I've been bitching about finding a set and doing this install. Thanks to him and his endless hours spent searching the interweb he's tracked them down a set and progressing my build.

Anyone interested should check out revlimit tuning. I have contact info for them and they have some other solutions we could all use. Like their upgraded cam roller follower. No wonder they got 600+ hp 2.0T FSI cars.

[z_wrecker]

me please! Also couldn't find anything on their cam roller follower

Trying to push the platform as mr EPY used to. I know you'll be asking when I get this settled. And someone will end up with a set of s3 injectors with 2200 km on them.

[derrek]

My tuner has messed with these on a car in Greece. They flow a little more then whats available now but nothing that's a game changer. That's why I ended up adding port injection over chasing different DI injectors for marginal gains.

[Charles.waite]

So what are the technical reasons DI injectors are generally so limited? I'm genuinely curious. I know adding secondary port injectors is a solution but it seems like a hack (from an engineering standpoint, not saying people who have done it are hacks). It's just not elegant.

In any event, it just kinda sucks that for a 1.8t all you need to do for ludicrous power is add some crazy big 1000cc (or bigger) injectors and a high flow Bosch/aeromotive pump and the fueling is basically sorted. But for direct injection it seems like there are some pretty hard physical limitations that make fueling consistently be an issue. It's just sort of a bummer, that's all.

[jbain2]

So what are the technical reasons DI injectors are generally so limited? I'm genuinely curious. I know adding secondary port injectors is a solution but it seems like a hack (from an engineering standpoint, not saying people who have done it are hacks). It's just not elegant.

In any event, it just kinda sucks that for a 1.8t all you need to do for ludicrous power is add some crazy big 1000cc (or bigger) injectors and a high flow Bosch/aeromotive pump and the fueling is basically sorted. But for direct injection it seems like there are some pretty hard physical limitations that make fueling consistently be an issue. It's just sort of a bummer, that's all.

My understanding is that because DI requires a different atomization pattern the flow needs to be higher due to the shorter time fuel is in the pre-combustion chamber. I believe the S3 injectors actually are like 1100cc (a little more). For port injection the mixture of fuel and air that occurs in the manifold is different by the time it gets to the combustion chamber that admixture has changed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[canadianA4B7]

My tuner has messed with these on a car in Greece. They flow a little more then whats available now but nothing that's a game changer. That's why I ended up adding port injection over chasing different DI injectors for marginal gains.

Dotuning? Or revlimit? Revlimit has claim to have mastered the tunes with these. Yes showing only (I cud have this incorrect) 18% more fueling. Which from what I see would handle a 24/26 psi curve out beyond 8500 rpm? My understanding was they are using just these injectors to reach 500 hp (I'm assuming crank hp). Now I know from my last build the S3 were maxed out around 6500 rpm or so they began to tail off as they cud no longer produce enough fuel.

My concern with using the ie intake manifold and 4 more fuel injectors is that I have not yet seen anyone successfully do this (yet). And well here in Canuck land are tuning options do not include such things. So here it seems at this point my hands are tied. I have tuning software (which I'm not great at but can likely get dialed in over time) which should allow me to adjust for new slightly larger injectors. Another concern is a fuel rail for going the port injection. I have not found one, but I also have not fully looked as its not been on my list. Nor am I interested in forking out $$$$ for a dual surge tank with new pumps my guess is $1200? Or $155 for 4 injectors and harness? I guess adjusting my end goal has already happened. And let's be honest, if I get a semi pro driver in my car, or even a half witted monkey I'll still likely put some decent times down the track. Still has the letters BWT on it, so being stock motor and all.

Derek you don't think 18% will do anything or enough? Firefox has used rs4 injectors to reach 500 at the wheels?

[aluthman]

Your 100% correct and he has stated in multiple threads what he had done to tune with these. I'm not 100% sure how much benefit I will see on the 6758, but if it means running the engine clean on fuel alone then adding meth will be a huge success. I wish I could have coaxed Aluthman into getting a set for his car. But guys look into this. I've found sets of 4 for stupid cheap. $155-200 for 4 injectors, the harness from what I've found so far is a direct replacement from a TSI motor which motor I'm still searching for and may be listed in this thread.

The extra fuel could really be a game changer. Will keep updating as project progresses. First step is to get on the road at least with the S3 I have, then when these get delivered I will move on.

Thanx goes to james12lucy we've been chatting about this for months. I've been bitching about finding a set and doing this install. Thanks to him and his endless hours spent searching the interweb he's tracked them down a set and progressing my build.

Anyone interested should check out revlimit tuning. I have contact info for them and they have some other solutions we could all use. Like their upgraded cam roller follower. No wonder they got 600+ hp 2.0T FSI cars.

Who said I wasn't getting them?

[derrek]

Dotuning? Or revlimit? Revlimit has claim to have mastered the tunes with these. Yes showing only (I cud have this incorrect) 18% more fueling. Which from what I see would handle a 24/26 psi curve out beyond 8500 rpm? My understanding was they are using just these injectors to reach 500 hp (I'm assuming crank hp). Now I know from my last build the S3 were maxed out around 6500 rpm or so they began to tail off as they cud no longer produce enough fuel.

My concern with using the ie intake manifold and 4 more fuel injectors is that I have not yet seen anyone successfully do this (yet). And well here in Canuck land are tuning options do not include such things. So here it seems at this point my hands are tied. I have tuning software (which I'm not great at but can likely get dialed in over time) which should allow me to adjust for new slightly larger injectors. Another concern is a fuel rail for going the port injection. I have not found one, but I also have not fully looked as its not been on my list. Nor am I interested in forking out $$$$ for a dual surge tank with new pumps my guess is $1200? Or $155 for 4 injectors and harness? I guess adjusting my end goal has already happened. And let's be honest, if I get a semi pro driver in my car, or even a half witted monkey I'll still likely put some decent times down the track. Still has the letters BWT on it, so being stock motor and all.

Derek you don't think 18% will do anything or enough? Firefox has used rs4 injectors to reach 500 at the wheels?

Sure you can make some more hp out of them but what if you want to run more then 25psi? Also you're going to have to really beef up your low pressure side to handle that.

As for adding port injection you don't have to use the I.E. manifold it's just what me and Adam used. HEP makes one with a fuel rail and injector ports already. The part that sucks is the stock ecu can't control everything by itself so you'll need to find a controller for the extra injectors. There's tons of batch fire controllers but those kinda suck. If you're really interested in this take a look at all the iroz cars and the i.e. Mk6 gti they both use the same solution for their port injection.

For me it was spend a few hundred to run different DI injectors to just be stuck in the same situation with slightly more power or spend more and not have to worry about it anymore. If I need more more fuel, all I have to do is get bigger port injectors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[canadianA4B7]

I think you kinda answered my thoughts. After 2 motors and the 4 turbos I've tried unless I make this track specific car there is no reason for 30+ psi daily drivable. I ran 26 with the 2863 with only minor fuel issues with the S3 injectors. Now that I've re routed and enlarged the fuel lines under the hood removing that stupid piece of shit oem hard line I bet the S3 units may not actually have that issue.

Having th IE intake also. I got this to include the port injection for meth. You guys are a bit further in power range then me. So I do fully understand the injection route you've gone. I understand torqbyte can control fuel. So that could be an option, adding the aeromotive fuel pressure controller (with my fuel lines this isn't an issue supplying the oem hpfp and aeromotive fpr will be easy then just up lpfp constant to supply both) to a custom fuel rail and torqbyte controller to it would be a simple way to finalize fueling the port injection? Would only add fuel at set points in controller it looks like?

Not sure how much power the 6758 will want to push beyond the 25 psi boost? From matchbox EFR it looks like on our motor 25 psi should be a very very fast spooling powerful setup. With the rs4 new injectors it kinda would look like no issues supplying the engine with enough fuel to 8000 rpm...... Maybe I'm totally wrong and dreaming. But only one way to find out. And if it works that's awesome! If it doesn add port injection fueling.

[al3k]

From what Ive been told the RS3 injectors flow more than the 2. gen RS4 (FSI) injectors, I will probably go for RS3s and make a new harness.

[canadianA4B7]

Part number on the RS3 injectors?? This is interesting!

[james12lucy]

Part number on the RS3 injectors?? This is interesting!

Read this:
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/foru...=10518.0title=

07K 906 031 H

07K 906 031 L

And ETKA these gems... ;)
9A1 110 128 71

[canadianA4B7]

Who said I wasn't getting them?

I thought you were staying with the S3 while adding port injection...... I'll retract my comment I had no idea.

james is a meth addict. He has searched the entire web today 4x.

Thanks for adding that. Good info.

[al3k]

Read this:
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/foru...=10518.0title=

07K 906 031 H

07K 906 031 L

And ETKA these gems... ;)
9A1 110 128 71

" these are prosche injectors! 997 Turbo

spray pattern , all is excelent and u can run them on 130bar rail pressure with over 600HP.

Mostly everyone here in Germany who knows this secret is selling and programming these injectors now..

Because they are running as smoove as original."

That will do :D

[al3k]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-X-New-Orig...xYUrvQ&vxp=mtr

What about this rev 07K906031L?
China stuff maybe? seemed very cheap

[james12lucy]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-X-New-Orig...xYUrvQ&vxp=mtr

What about this rev 07K906031L?
China stuff maybe? seemed very cheap

I highlighted that in my other post. It's OEM but no one knows about them on this side of the pond, so there isn't a demand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[seal66]

I do have another injector solution. Just waiting for something first. So far two of us run in on the b7 and in yhe vw world quite a few

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[Charles.waite]

Aaannnnndddd...?

[Okedokey]

Aaannnnndddd...?

lol yep

[james12lucy]

I do have another injector solution. Just waiting for something first. So far two of us run in on the b7 and in yhe vw world quite a few

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

I'm assuming you're referring to the GM injectors?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[derrek]

I'm assuming you're referring to the GM injectors?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

something else