Zimbu's more go to my 3.Slow thread (B6 A4 3.0 V6 mods and tuning)

[idotavant]

Great stuff guys! Loved reading the thread.

[jaydeff]

You guys don't need a flashing bench to write a file to the ECU (although they are definitely nice to have). You can use a Chinese version of MPPS v13 with a cable from aliexpress. They're supposedly hit and miss on working but I bought one for I think like $15 shipped and it works. I just did a quick search and it looks like they're even cheaper now. I know a bench is preferable but I'm just throwing this out there in case anyone is interested.

Zimbu, that's some awesome work to give out for free. Do you know if there would be anything detrimental to running your file without the changeover system installed? Mine was broken so I removed it and just screwed the actuator part back on to cover the hole.

[SJorge3442]

You guys don't need a flashing bench to write a file to the ECU (although they are definitely nice to have). You can use a Chinese version of MPPS v13 with a cable from aliexpress. They're supposedly hit and miss on working but I bought one for I think like $15 shipped and it works. I just did a quick search and it looks like they're even cheaper now. I know a bench is preferable but I'm just throwing this out there in case anyone is interested.

Zimbu, that's some awesome work to give out for free. Do you know if there would be anything detrimental to running your file without the changeover system installed? Mine was broken so I removed it and just screwed the actuator part back on to cover the hole.

Yeah im gonna test out flashing through the OBD2 port with a battery charger attached to my car. Using my kompresd ECU as a test unit.

[SJorge3442]

I plan on spending the night reviewing Nefmoto, Winols and learning how to pull back timing since I have stock cats. I'd rather not try to run too much ignition timing if it could cause issues with the engine and pre-det. I miss running my tuned ecu for the short time I did, so hopefully this one works without an issue and I can start having fun again!

[ZimbutheMonkey]

You guys don't need a flashing bench to write a file to the ECU (although they are definitely nice to have). You can use a Chinese version of MPPS v13 with a cable from aliexpress. They're supposedly hit and miss on working but I bought one for I think like $15 shipped and it works. I just did a quick search and it looks like they're even cheaper now. I know a bench is preferable but I'm just throwing this out there in case anyone is interested.

Zimbu, that's some awesome work to give out for free. Do you know if there would be anything detrimental to running your file without the changeover system installed? Mine was broken so I removed it and just screwed the actuator part back on to cover the hole.

Happy to contribute I was hoping I could get a few daring individuals on Nefmoto to try out the tune and offer their feedback and own suggestions, but unfortunately I just don't think there are enough members there with this engine configuration to make it work.

Besides, what good does it do myself or anyone to guard this information. Not like I plan on selling it for $500 a pop. Although now that I've finally gotten a glimpse behind the veil, I will say that my tune probably has at least as (or more) maps massaged as most $500 reflashes.

Is it on par with $400-500 tune? I don't know, maybe, maybe not. I can feel a few areas that could use a little more finessing (i.e. every so often, tip-in can be a tiny bit coarse) and I'm sure that you guys would have some valuable insights. That said, I'm pretty damn happy with how the car feels now vs when it was stock.

I think it would be really interesting to see how different people dial their calibration preferences in. Also, I think that having different sets of eyes on the binary and different asses in the drivers seats would yield some great results. So I look forward to getting some feedback and ideas from you guys, which is far more exciting and satisfying than letting this information sit on a hard drive.


As for running it with the changeover system disabled, I don't think that it would necessarily be harmful. However, since I've been trying to gear the tune towards low-mid range torque, (and these engines seem to die really badly above 4500 or so with the manifold in the long runner position past that point) you'd kind of be "damned if you do/damned if you don't" in that you'd probably loose lot of low end grunt at the expense of keeping what little top end these engines have with the runners in the short mode.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I plan on spending the night reviewing Nefmoto, Winols and learning how to pull back timing since I have stock cats. I'd rather not try to run too much ignition timing if it could cause issues with the engine and pre-det. I miss running my tuned ecu for the short time I did, so hopefully this one works without an issue and I can start having fun again!

Yeah im gonna test out flashing through the OBD2 port with a battery charger attached to my car. Using my kompresd ECU as a test unit.

It's pretty easy to make changes with WinOLS. Just highlight the text and click +/-1, "edit absolute" or edit the map in 3D. Maybe I'll make another version with the timing dialed down a bit. That said, the stock ECU is designed to be ran on 89 octane in all conditions, so the timing is probably not too far off as is if you're filling the tank with 94. Honestly, I was probably a little cautious when I wrote up the risks section when I posted my tune. However, I felt it was better to err on the side of caution in that respect.

I would also highly recommend investing the $50 or so in EFIanalytics Mega Log Viewer HD http://www.tunerstudio.com/index.php/megalogviewer

It's been a HUGE help in dialing the tune in. Just log everything and the kitchen sink (I log over 100 variables whenever I go out logging) with ME7logger at 10+ samples a second. Then plug the data into the "histogram" feature, set the cell count to the same as the ECU (i.e. RPM x 16 cells, Engine Load x 11 for KFZW) and it mirrors what the ECU is spitting out after corrections.

Here's what the logs I took on Jan 26 looked like. (Note, it's obviously not 100% accurate as it averages the data)


The other great thing is that you can run traces in these tables to see what cells are active and when. It's also incredibly useful to be able to go over old data sets retroactively when you want to compare changes between different files.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I've considered making a bench top flashing setup previously and trying to tackle this, just that I could never find the motivation to do so. Maybe now I'll look into it a little more. Just a question related to your tune, did you defeat any of the emissions checks, and if so, did you do so in a way that it could still pass an emissions inspection?

Nope, I put spacers in my exhaust when I built it, so no check engine lights. Plus, I live in the redneck republic of Alberta, so no need to pass emissions.

That said, the winOLS map pack that I posted probably has the 1x1 on/off map areas necessary to defeat emissions highlighted somewhere. I'll look into it for 'ya.

[imnuts]

You guys don't need a flashing bench to write a file to the ECU (although they are definitely nice to have). You can use a Chinese version of MPPS v13 with a cable from aliexpress. They're supposedly hit and miss on working but I bought one for I think like $15 shipped and it works. I just did a quick search and it looks like they're even cheaper now. I know a bench is preferable but I'm just throwing this out there in case anyone is interested.

I know that it isn't required, but I wanted it since I have a spare ECU sitting here, and it would be potentially easier to flash offline.

Nope, I put spacers in my exhaust when I built it, so no check engine lights. Plus, I live in the redneck republic of Alberta, so no need to pass emissions.

That said, the winOLS map pack that I posted probably has the 1x1 on/off map areas necessary to defeat emissions highlighted somewhere. I'll look into it for 'ya.

At the moment, the only thing I'd be interested in is the catalyst efficiency change so that that monitor didn't go off and cause a CEL. All of my other systems are working, so no need to mess with them. I think down the road, SAI would be the only other item that I would disable.

[SJorge3442]

I spent quite a bit of time last night playing around and for the life of me, I cant get Winols to recognize any of the maps. It's gonna take me a bit to figure this out.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[jaydeff]

As for running it with the changeover system disabled, I don't think that it would necessarily be harmful. However, since I've been trying to gear the tune towards low-mid range torque, (and these engines seem to die really badly above 4500 or so with the manifold in the long runner position past that point) you'd kind of be "damned if you do/damned if you don't" in that you'd probably loose lot of low end grunt at the expense of keeping what little top end these engines have with the runners in the short mode.

Hmm I'm also limited to 91 octane here in SoCal so I think it's definitely not ideal to run the tune with how my car is right now. I'm gonna be fixing/upgrading some things in the coming weeks like replacing my dead front O2 sensor, 2.5" catless downpipes, new fuel pump, and I'm seriously considering buying a changeover system new but $400 is a lot for that piece of plastic... Anyway I'll fix these things up then see where to go from there.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I spent quite a bit of time last night playing around and for the life of me, I cant get Winols to recognize any of the maps. It's gonna take me a bit to figure this out.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Are you using the correct .kp map pack with the correct hardware version?

Copy of the response I posted on Nefmoto:
I made up the full .kp map pack on the 0004 hardware .bin , however when I made the tune, it was on the 0001 .bin ( I lost track of which one I was using after, like, the 50th time I revised the file lol) I included a .kp pack with the 0001 version with a bare bone set of maps that relate to the tune.

However, it's not hard to transfer the maps between hardware versions. just line them up side by side and use the "compare map" feature in winOLS to transfer the maps.

Glad to see you guys are excited about this though :) Really hoping that you guys like it

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Hmm I'm also limited to 91 octane here in SoCal so I think it's definitely not ideal to run the tune with how my car is right now. I'm gonna be fixing/upgrading some things in the coming weeks like replacing my dead front O2 sensor, 2.5" catless downpipes, new fuel pump, and I'm seriously considering buying a changeover system new but $400 is a lot for that piece of plastic... Anyway I'll fix these things up then see where to go from there.

Yeah, it sucks that it costs that much. However from what I see, the intake manifold changeover working properly adds about as much (or more) power than a reflash. Maybe you can source a used one?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

At the moment, the only thing I'd be interested in is the catalyst efficiency change so that that monitor didn't go off and cause a CEL. All of my other systems are working, so no need to mess with them. I think down the road, SAI would be the only other item that I would disable.

I'll have a look around on Nefmoto and see what map areas would need to be changed for emissions stuff.

If you happen to know offhand which map areas need to be changed, let me know and I'll check to see if I have them marked in my .kp map pack.

[jaydeff]

...from what I see, the intake manifold changeover working properly adds about as much (or more) power than a reflash.

That does make it much more convincing. I've been casually hunting for a used one for a while now and they never pop up for a reasonable price. Buying used seems kinda sketchy too since they're so prone to breaking already. I think I may end up just getting a new one in a couple weeks when it's the last thing I need to do.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

That does make it much more convincing. I've been casually hunting for a used one for a while now and they never pop up for a reasonable price. Buying used seems kinda sketchy too since they're so prone to breaking already. I think I may end up just getting a new one in a couple weeks when it's the last thing I need to do.

Here's a dyno with the manifold changeover stuck in long/short positions respectively. If I had to choose, I'd leave it in short runner mode. However, you loose a ton of torque below 3000 RPM.

[SJorge3442]

Are you using the correct .kp map pack with the correct hardware version?

Copy of the response I posted on Nefmoto:
I made up the full .kp map pack on the 0004 hardware .bin , however when I made the tune, it was on the 0001 .bin ( I lost track of which one I was using after, like, the 50th time I revised the file lol) I included a .kp pack with the 0001 version with a bare bone set of maps that relate to the tune.

However, it's not hard to transfer the maps between hardware versions. just line them up side by side and use the "compare map" feature in winOLS to transfer the maps.

Glad to see you guys are excited about this though :) Really hoping that you guys like it

Ah yeah. I was trying to read the tune .bin. I was unaware of the maps. So if I use the .kp file, I'll be able to find the hex locations of the maps and use compare to copy them to the tune. That makes sense. Thanks! I'll be playing around with it tonight.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Ah yeah. I was trying to read the tune .bin. I was unaware of the maps. So if I use the .kp file, I'll be able to find the hex locations of the maps and use compare to copy them to the tune. That makes sense. Thanks! I'll be playing around with it tonight.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Yes, use the "import map pack" function and select the .kp that is associated with each respective HW number

[SJorge3442]

Yes, use the "import map pack" function and select the .kp that is associated with each respective HW number

Yup. Thanks. Got it going late last night. Even after about 10 hours of studying, I'm still completely overwhelmed. The kompresd ecu went back in this morning so my car could get inspected without issue. Waiting on that now. Then I'm heading back swapping the fuel pump, then swapping on your tune. Stay tuned for updates!!

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[SJorge3442]

Alright so. I finally sat down and was excited to get this going, but I don't ave the memory layout available to allow me to do so. Zimbu, any pointers for locating or pulling this? Its one of the things I just cannot for the life of me find anywhere.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Alright so. I finally sat down and was excited to get this going, but I don't ave the memory layout available to allow me to do so. Zimbu, any pointers for locating or pulling this? Its one of the things I just cannot for the life of me find anywhere.

Sorry, what do you mean by memory layout?

If you mean the definition file, before I made one it didn't exist on the internet. Luckily for you Uncle Zimbu made one and it's posted on the Nefmoto thread. There are two 1024k binary ECU reads (HW 0001 and HW 0004) and two .kp files, all together at the bottom of the first post. Download all 4, open the 1024k .bin in Winols and then import the .kp file associated with it's respective ECU .bin, easy as that. (lol, although it wasn't easy making them from scratch, I'm not exaggerating when I say I spent over 500 hours on this project learning how to do this from the ground up...)

HW 0001 is the the tuned version, the .kp (map pack) for that one is just a bare bones set of maps that you would want to look at while tuning an ECU.

HW 0004 is the stock version. It has a full map pack with just about every 2D map and a good chunk of the 1D and 1x1 maps.

You can easily transfer the maps from HW 0004 to HW 0001. The layout is the same between HW versions, it's just that the offsets are a little different here and there, which means that you can't just import the full .kp from HW 0004.

By the way, do you have a copy of the Kompressed file? I'm really curious as to how he tuned your ECU. From what I can see, he knows his stuff.

You can get if off the ECU by pulling it out, putting it on the bench and reading it in bootmode. This can be done with an ebay VCDS dongle. Just go onto Nefmoto and look up how to install the cracked version of the Galletto 1260 cable. You basically just need to download a hex editor and change the serial number on your cable in it's .config file. I'll post a link to that thread if I can find it.

[jaychen]

Wow, good to see you're still around mate.

I remember your old 1.8t thread from years back.

[SJorge3442]

Sorry, what do you mean by memory layout?

If you mean the definition file, before I made one it didn't exist on the internet. Luckily for you Uncle Zimbu made one and it's posted on the Nefmoto thread. There are two 1024k binary ECU reads (HW 0001 and HW 0004) and two .kp files, all together at the bottom of the first post. Download all 4, open the 1024k .bin in Winols and then import the .kp file associated with it's respective ECU .bin, easy as that. (lol, although it wasn't easy making them from scratch, I'm not exaggerating when I say I spent over 500 hours on this project learning how to do this from the ground up...)

HW 0001 is the the tuned version, the .kp (map pack) for that one is just a bare bones set of maps that you would want to look at while tuning an ECU.

HW 0004 is the stock version. It has a full map pack with just about every 2D map and a good chunk of the 1D and 1x1 maps.

You can easily transfer the maps from HW 0004 to HW 0001. The layout is the same between HW versions, it's just that the offsets are a little different here and there, which means that you can't just import the full .kp from HW 0004.

By the way, do you have a copy of the Kompressed file? I'm really curious as to how he tuned your ECU. From what I can see, he knows his stuff.

You can get if off the ECU by pulling it out, putting it on the bench and reading it in bootmode. This can be done with an ebay VCDS dongle. Just go onto Nefmoto and look up how to install the cracked version of the Galletto 1260 cable. You basically just need to download a hex editor and change the serial number on your cable in it's .config file. I'll post a link to that thread if I can find it.

I do not have the Kompresd tune exported, at least not yet. I need to get a bench setup to pull that. I can totally do that so that I/you can compare the alterations. Below is a sorta confusing screen shot of what I'm talking about in regards to the memory format. Its the XML file that Nefmoto requires to flash a tune.

I just got a P0150 code yesterday for my drivers side front o2, so I won't be moving forward with anything until I get that sorted out.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Oh I see what you're talking about.

No worries though, just use the ME7 29F800BB Memory Layout. Nefmoto flasher will give you dire warnings of impending doom and ask you if you want to go on without validating the memory layout, just select "yes" and go on.

[SJorge3442]

Oh I see what you're talking about.

No worries though, just use the ME7 29F800BB Memory Layout. Nefmoto flasher will give you dire warnings of impending doom and ask you if you want to go on without validating the memory layout, just select "yes" and go on.

Awesome. I wasn't sure if I should use the 400 800 version. I'll likely be testing this in the coming weeks. Not sure if I'll have time to get to it before then. I need to replace my front o2 and I'm thinking I may use this time to just gut both cats too. Who knows. Depends how dirty I feel like getting.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[cschuster]

Awesome. I wasn't sure if I should use the 400 800 version. I'll likely be testing this in the coming weeks. Not sure if I'll have time to get to it before then. I need to replace my front o2 and I'm thinking I may use this time to just gut both cats too. Who knows. Depends how dirty I feel like getting.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Have you seen what a pain the ass gutting them looks like?

[SJorge3442]

Have you seen what a pain the ass gutting them looks like?

yeah. My version of gutting them would likely involve cutting them open down the side and gutting them, then welding it back closed. I have also contemplated the possibility of using a torch to heat up the catalyst material and then squeeze the handle once it gets hot and try to blow them apart. I know they are made to withstand some serious heat, but I feel a properly adjusted acetylene torch should be able to do some work on them. I'm also thinking ahead and thinking I may have cat damage from the misfires or something. Probably over thinking it, but who knows. If its not raining in Philly later, I'm gonna poke around under the hood and try to locate the sensor from the top.

[cschuster]

yeah. My version of gutting them would likely involve cutting them open down the side and gutting them, then welding it back closed. I have also contemplated the possibility of using a torch to heat up the catalyst material and then squeeze the handle once it gets hot and try to blow them apart. I know they are made to withstand some serious heat, but I feel a properly adjusted acetylene torch should be able to do some work on them. I'm also thinking ahead and thinking I may have cat damage from the misfires or something. Probably over thinking it, but who knows. If its not raining in Philly later, I'm gonna poke around under the hood and try to locate the sensor from the top.

Just sent SSAC an email to try and pick up where jaydeff left off about the downpipes. Maybe you won't have to go through all that.

[imnuts]

I spent 0 time reading about how to make changes in WinOLS, but I have it installed, the 0001 binary loaded with your kp map pack. I found a thread there that gives the bare bones on bypassing various DTCs, though I can't currently make much sense of it. I should probably read up on using the software first.

Sent from my DROID Turbo 2

[SJorge3442]

I spent 0 time reading about how to make changes in WinOLS, but I have it installed, the 0001 binary loaded with your kp map pack. I found a thread there that gives the bare bones on bypassing various DTCs, though I can't currently make much sense of it. I should probably read up on using the software first.

Sent from my DROID Turbo 2

Yeah it takes some time to understand everything. You also need some actually data (logs) to help justify your changes. Changing things all willy nilly will never end up good. If you come across the definition file (.xml) which we listed above, let me know cause I need it and havent found it yet. I'm sure its sitting on the s4 wiki somewhere.

DERP! Memory layouts get preinstalled with Nefmoto!

I navigated away from this, so I never saw them to begin with. Whoops. After i fix my sensor AND my rear brakes since that stupid mechanic messed them up, I will be doing this!
Heres the location of the memory layouts (C:\Program Files (x86)\Nefarious Motorsports Inc\NefMoto VW Audi ME7 ECU Flasher\Memory Layouts)

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Hey all, I added another file revision with more aggressive cam phasing (dropping off all the way to 6800 RPM. Feel free to check it out

[SJorge3442]

Hey all, I added another file revision with more aggressive cam phasing (dropping off all the way to 6800 RPM. Feel free to check it out

Damn. You're dropping more updates than most companies for their own products lol. I'm getting really excited to get this tested.

[cschuster]

Great work! Read your nefmoto thread, and its very interesting what you have to say about other company's tunes. My guess is that R&D costs would be way higher if they had put the same time into it as you have. Then they would have to price themselves out of the tune market to make up the cost. That also explains the secrecy - you get what you pay for. If I can get some damn HFC downpipes without paying $1100 I am interested in trying it out. Did you tune the rear O2 sensors out so it won't give the cat codes?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Great work! Read your nefmoto thread, and its very interesting what you have to say about other company's tunes. My guess is that R&D costs would be way higher if they had put the same time into it as you have. Then they would have to price themselves out of the tune market to make up the cost. That also explains the secrecy - you get what you pay for. If I can get some damn HFC downpipes without paying $1100 I am interested in trying it out. Did you tune the rear O2 sensors out so it won't give the cat codes?

Well thanks

First, I would say that you could very likely use the first version of my tune with the stock cats in place. I only included that warning to cover my ass in case someone did use it and found that it caused issues.

I've been using a similar cam control strategy on my B6 S4 (with the stock cats) and it's worked quite well.

With respect to the time that I had to put into it, bear in mind that I started from scratch, with no clue whatsoever how to tune ME7, no DAMOS for the V6 (or any DAMOS for that matter) and no existing tuned files to reference.

Now that I have 6 gigs worth of definition files, a working DAMOS for my engine, reference tuning files for N/A engines and half a clue as to what I'm doing (lol), I can pound out a tune in 6-8 hours. I did it for my folks V8 Tourareg in fact.

Really, it's not that hard. In a very general sense, this is what you do

-Add values to the last 5-6 rows of KFMIRL,
-rescale the KFMOIP axis accordingly (to match the new KFMIRL values) and possibly add some values to the last row of KFMOIP, -
-look at the timing tables, smooth out any dips from the factory. If possible, add 2-3 degrees globally depending on fuel quality and elevation
-redo the KFPED throttle tables to suit. (you can always look at tables from other, sportier versions of an engine and import them as a baseline if you don't start from scratch)
-modify the cam timing maps to give more advance and then drop it as if you were roughly following the engine's volumetric efficiency)
-some other maps that you may want to look at are the smaller 8x8 maps of torque values in the command list as well, but I haven't messed with them yet.

I would submit that what drives the secrecy is the fact that once you have a few good reference files, it's not that hard to import those values to other platforms. I think that if people really knew how little R&D some of these tuners put into these products, that they wouldn't be willing to pony up $500+ for a canned tune.

Now, in fairness, there are some companies who legitimately put a lot of R&D into a product. However I would say that these types of products are ones that interface with the vehicle and require actual programming code to be written (like the REVO SPS cables or the APR switching software). Also, products which allow for OBD flashing of the more recent ECU types are also difficult to produce. I can understand the cost and secrecy associated with these types of products.

What I don't agree with is the secrecy associated with letting consumers know in a general sense, which map areas were re-calibrated. Really, it doesn't put the tuner at a disadvantage if they tell someone that, say, they re-calibrated the cam control. Just because I know they re-calibrated a map area, it doesn't give me any idea as to how they did it. However, it gives a sense of just how much work was really put into the tune.

[imnuts]

Anymore, I would say a lot of the R&D would be getting the emissions related tuning fixed so that it still passes the OBDII emissions checks, but that would basically be a one time thing. Figure it out on one platform, it should be relatively easy to do it on others, assuming you know what you're doing.

[verstappen]

Also, I think I may have an idea for a bit of a different approach to building the remainder of my exhaust system.

I think I'm going to see about incorporating some venturi transitions into my exhaust. Basically, what I think I'll do is use a pair of shallow transition (9 degree angle) cones to increase the exhaust velocity before going into the crossover pipe.

It's not going to be a massive neck down, just going from 2.5 inches to 2.25 inches. It's partially driven by cost considerations as I have a bunch of 2.25 in mandrel bends kicking around.

However my theory is that while the neck down will decrease high end flow slightly, increasing the exhaust velocity before the X pipe will aid in mid range torque production.

Basically, it's a bit of a trade off. However, since the stock enand maximize those gains rather than try and maximize top end power. Put otherwise, best to base your power adders around your engine's best volumetric efficiency areas in the powerband.

Thoughts from the peanut gallery?

Hey man! Any chance you can help me with the definition file? I can pay you. Can't find one online.