S mode vs D mode curiousity

[Tman007]

My S mode has been operating curiously recently...

I find that, after my car is fully warmed up (5-10 minutes after starting to drive), my S mode starts behaving exactly like D mode. I switch between the two modes and nothing changes. During the first part of my drive the S mode works as expected - typically going to one gear lower and keeping the revs higher...

Has anyone else encountered something similar? I'm scratching my head on this one - I have done some vag-com adjustments but I don't think I touched anything related to this.

[a4magnet]

I would say that my S really changes the response and goes faster, shifts faster.. also the steering wheel gets harder..

[agent47]

My S mode has been operating curiously recently...

I find that, after my car is fully warmed up (5-10 minutes after starting to drive), my S mode starts behaving exactly like D mode. I switch between the two modes and nothing changes. During the first part of my drive the S mode works as expected - typically going to one gear lower and keeping the revs higher...

Has anyone else encountered something similar? I'm scratching my head on this one - I have done some vag-com adjustments but I don't think I touched anything related to this.

Shouldnt be happening. I switch between d and s often . Quite a difference. I think you might wanna call your dealer and get it checked out.

[wuk]

what if your "D" setting is already in Dynamic? wouldn't changing to "S" not do anything then? You'd be going from Dynamic to Dynamic, and therefore wouldn't feel a difference....just a thought.

[Xtek]

The car actually learns how you drive in both the short term and long term. If you put it in S and drive lazily, it'll act lazily. I tested this theory last night actually. When going through some twisties and getting on it. It would hold gears longer and respond faster. As soon as I got onto a country road and was just cruising it got lazy.

[Glacier6]

The car actually learns how you drive in both the short term and long term. If you put it in S and drive lazily, it'll act lazily. I tested this theory last night actually. When going through some twisties and getting on it. It would hold gears longer and respond faster. As soon as I got onto a country road and was just cruising it got lazy.

This. It's amazing how the car adapts. When I first got it and was driving around in normal D mode, the shifts were lazy and the car was pretty slow from a stop. Now that I've had some time with my driving style and heavy foot, it gets through the gears much faster in D mode. I can still tell a difference when I switch to S mode, however.

[Silverarrow240]

The car actually learns how you drive in both the short term and long term. If you put it in S and drive lazily, it'll act lazily. I tested this theory last night actually. When going through some twisties and getting on it. It would hold gears longer and respond faster. As soon as I got onto a country road and was just cruising it got lazy.

If I throw my car in S and drive in a more spirited fashion, it won't go past 6th gear... If I get off of it, and just cruise it will kick wodn to 8th after a minute or so. Then, if I put sopme stank on it again it kicks back down quickly and reverts. It really is amazing how the car adapts in real time...

[JoeGie]

what if your "D" setting is already in Dynamic? wouldn't changing to "S" not do anything then? You'd be going from Dynamic to Dynamic, and therefore wouldn't feel a difference....just a thought.

no, even if you are in dynamic the transmission will act totally different in both modes. having the car is dynamic does not set the transmission into S mode.

[agent47]

The car actually learns how you drive in both the short term and long term. If you put it in S and drive lazily, it'll act lazily. I tested this theory last night actually. When going through some twisties and getting on it. It would hold gears longer and respond faster. As soon as I got onto a country road and was just cruising it got lazy.

That is very true Chad. Just my observation that S and D still drive different. And I think they should. There are days when I am cruising around lazy and then suddenly I get possessed, hitting S and flying. Car always behaved different between D & S
OP- try driving aggressively for a few minutes. Lets see if that cures the problem.

[bobamoo]

If you are in "dynamic" mode, the "S" still appears in the cluster display, and you can toggle the transmission back to "D" using the shifter while everything else stays in dynamic. I played around with this on a recent road trip. I have noticed that if I put it in dynamic, via the car settings, then shut the car off, when I restart, the transmission returns to "D", even tho drive select still shows dynamic. Probably all just an electronics quirk.

[wuk]

no, even if you are in dynamic the transmission will act totally different in both modes. having the car is dynamic does not set the transmission into S mode.

absolutely sure about this? pretty sure the dynamic mode changed: 1. transmission (same as "S mode"), 2.belt tension and 3.steering. what do I know though...10 miles to work on trafficy back roads. I rarely get to punch it...:-(

[Glacier6]

If you are in "dynamic" mode, the "S" still appears in the cluster display, and you can toggle the transmission back to "D" using the shifter while everything else stays in dynamic. I played around with this on a recent road trip. I have noticed that if I put it in dynamic, via the car settings, then shut the car off, when I restart, the transmission returns to "D", even tho drive select still shows dynamic. Probably all just an electronics quirk.

Yes, if you set Drive Select to Dynamic, it will switch the drive mode to S at that moment and the rest of that current drive. Due to MPG regulations, I believe, once you shut the car off while still in Dynamic mode, only the transmission will revert to D mode when you start the car again. You will need to manually go into Drive Select and click Dynamic again (even though it is already set there) or simply pull back the shifter, to get the transmission back to S mode.

[JoeGie]

absolutely sure about this? pretty sure the dynamic mode changed: 1. transmission (same as "S mode"), 2.belt tension and 3.steering. what do I know though...10 miles to work on trafficy back roads. I rarely get to punch it...:-(

positive, well in my s6 at least haha. like the others in this thread I can drive in 'D' mode and be in 7th but if I kick it down into 'S' it'll automatically downshift and stay in 6th. most of the time cruising around 75-80 it still won't shift to 7th. I drive most of the time in S or M mode, I only use D when I pull into my garage lol.

edit: reading the message above might shed some light on it, I leave my car in dynamic mode all the time. so maybe we're both right haha.

[07S6]

Yes, if you set Drive Select to Dynamic, it will switch the drive mode to S at that moment and the rest of that current drive. Due to MPG regulations, I believe, once you shut the car off while still in Dynamic mode, only the transmission will revert to D mode when you start the car again. You will need to manually go into Drive Select and click Dynamic again (even though it is already set there) or simply pull back the shifter, to get the transmission back to S mode.

+1 That's exactly my experience as well.

[wuk]

positive, well in my s6 at least haha. like the others in this thread I can drive in 'D' mode and be in 7th but if I kick it down into 'S' it'll automatically downshift and stay in 6th. most of the time cruising around 75-80 it still won't shift to 7th. I drive most of the time in S or M mode, I only use D when I pull into my garage lol.

edit: reading the message above might shed some light on it, I leave my car in dynamic mode all the time. so maybe we're both right haha.

nailed it. thanks everyone!!

[Xtek]

I've seen mine shift into 7th while in S. If I'm cruising long enough it'll do it. However I generally don't just cruise.

[Arnie49]

+1 That's exactly my experience as well.

That is not correct you can shift to sport mode at anytime just click the shifter back 1/4 inch goes into sport mode do it again and it shifts back to drive mode

[Tman007]

The car actually learns how you drive in both the short term and long term. If you put it in S and drive lazily, it'll act lazily. I tested this theory last night actually. When going through some twisties and getting on it. It would hold gears longer and respond faster. As soon as I got onto a country road and was just cruising it got lazy.

If I throw my car in S and drive in a more spirited fashion, it won't go past 6th gear... If I get off of it, and just cruise it will kick wodn to 8th after a minute or so. Then, if I put sopme stank on it again it kicks back down quickly and reverts. It really is amazing how the car adapts in real time...

I think you guys are correct, my car is behaving the same way... But this behavior doesn't make sense to me -- if the car is always learning/adjusting to the driver's behavior, why give the driver choices that makes him think he's controlling the settings? You have three Audi Drive Select modes - Comfort / Auto / Dynamic - what's the point if the car is going to just decide on it's own whether to be relaxed or be aggressive?!

In my mind, the most logical behavior would be:
Comfort (and D mode transmission) is always relaxed
Dynamic (and S mode transmission) is always aggressive
Auto lets the car brain decide if the driver is being more relaxed or aggressive

Sometimes you're in a situation where you're driving relaxed (stop-and-go traffic), but then you want to hit it (merge into a fast lane) and you can't afford for the car to take it's time to learn what you want. If I have it set to Dynamic I want it to be immediately prepared to be dynamic!

Is anybody tracking with me here, or am I missing something?!

[Glacier6]

I think you guys are correct, my car is behaving the same way... But this behavior doesn't make sense to me -- if the car is always learning/adjusting to the driver's behavior, why give the driver choices that makes him think he's controlling the settings? You have three Audi Drive Select modes - Comfort / Auto / Dynamic - what's the point if the car is going to just decide on it's own whether to be relaxed or be aggressive?!

In my mind, the most logical behavior would be:
Comfort (and D mode transmission) is always relaxed
Dynamic (and S mode transmission) is always aggressive
Auto lets the car brain decide if the driver is being more relaxed or aggressive

Sometimes you're in a situation where you're driving relaxed (stop-and-go traffic), but then you want to hit it (merge into a fast lane) and you can't afford for the car to take it's time to learn what you want. If I have it set to Dynamic I want it to be immediately prepared to be dynamic!

Is anybody tracking with me here, or am I missing something?!

Literally had this happen this morning.....my normal D mode has adapted to shifting fairly quickly in the early gear set. Mine's a CPO and I can tell the original driver was casual as sh*t, and it has adjusted to my driving style(fast off the line), but definitely not as much as S mode. Went to pull on the freeway in D mode and some VW bug decided to push it and I was shocked at how slow I was able to get in front of the bug in D mode. If I was in S mode, I know, no question it wouldn't have been an issue, so there is definitely still a difference.

[Waaazooo]

positive, well in my s6 at least haha. like the others in this thread I can drive in 'D' mode and be in 7th but if I kick it down into 'S' it'll automatically downshift and stay in 6th. most of the time cruising around 75-80 it still won't shift to 7th. I drive most of the time in S or M mode, I only use D when I pull into my garage lol.

edit: reading the message above might shed some light on it, I leave my car in dynamic mode all the time. so maybe we're both right haha.

For some reasons car down shifts from 2 into 1 on D as I'm 2 or 3' away from the wall in my garage....lunging it forward towards my tool chest. So I switch to m1 as I approach the garage.

Yes, it's going into the shop soon.


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[Xtek]

I think you guys are correct, my car is behaving the same way... But this behavior doesn't make sense to me -- if the car is always learning/adjusting to the driver's behavior, why give the driver choices that makes him think he's controlling the settings? You have three Audi Drive Select modes - Comfort / Auto / Dynamic - what's the point if the car is going to just decide on it's own whether to be relaxed or be aggressive?!

In my mind, the most logical behavior would be:
Comfort (and D mode transmission) is always relaxed
Dynamic (and S mode transmission) is always aggressive
Auto lets the car brain decide if the driver is being more relaxed or aggressive

Sometimes you're in a situation where you're driving relaxed (stop-and-go traffic), but then you want to hit it (merge into a fast lane) and you can't afford for the car to take it's time to learn what you want. If I have it set to Dynamic I want it to be immediately prepared to be dynamic!

Is anybody tracking with me here, or am I missing something?!

I think you're way overthinking this. A visual aproiach might help.

Casual <-----------------> Sporty
|----------D----------|_______
______|------------S----------|

Both D and S have ranges. The car learns for both short term and long term.

With that said. D will only act so sporty. Not only does it affect shift points but how fast it shifts. Same for S. So while S might be a little more casual when you stay off of it, as soon as you get on it again it'll liven up and be ready to go.

If you want to cruise for a long distance in a lower gear use M. S will eventually upshift to 6th and I've even had mine go into 7th on a trip to Portland from Seattle.

S will never get as lazy as D, D will never get as sporty as S. M is always the best choice if you know the road ahead of you, the car doesn't.

[Silent Drone]

S will never get as lazy as D, D will never get as sporty as S. M is always the best choice if you know the road ahead of you, the car doesn't.

This... Pearls of wisdom.


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[Tman007]

I think you're way overthinking this. A visual aproiach might help.

Casual <-----------------> Sporty
|----------D----------|_______
______|------------S----------|

...

S will never get as lazy as D, D will never get as sporty as S. M is always the best choice if you know the road ahead of you, the car doesn't.

Thanks, this helps. I think my S does get as lazy as D sometimes, so I'm realizing that my car needs to get checked...

[JoeGie]

For some reasons car down shifts from 2 into 1 on D as I'm 2 or 3' away from the wall in my garage....lunging it forward towards my tool chest. So I switch to m1 as I approach the garage.

Yes, it's going into the shop soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I usually come to a complete stop before I pull into the garage to activate the parking sensors or let the wife out and take out the kids, since I pretty much have to hug the wall to fit into my space. might want to give that a shot.

[Tman007]

Thanks, this helps. I think my S does get as lazy as D sometimes, so I'm realizing that my car needs to get checked...

Following up with some good news on my issue...

Brought my A7 to the dealer yesterday to get some work done, and they also did the 37J1 campaign (invoice says "UPDATE TCM SOFTWARE"), which apparently fixes some of the transmission control module settings/mappings.

My initial impression (after one day of driving) is that my S-mode is now more like I would expect it, noticeably becoming more sporty when I change from D, even if I'm just cruising along not too aggressively. Now it almost always downshifts one gear when I go from D to S, and maintains the revs a bit higher. Looks like Audi got it right with this update!

[Glacier6]

Just had this update applied to mine as well a couple of days ago. Can definitely feel a difference and the jerkiness in the lower gears has been solved as well.

[07S6]

Hey all,

Any others with feedback after the recent TCM software update. My car is at the dealer today for a 55K service and this update is available.. i had heard a couple of folks with negative feedback on the other forum i believe..
Need to decide whether to pass on it for now.
Thanks

[AudiA6A5]

Hey all,

Any others with feedback after the recent TCM software update. My car is at the dealer today for a 55K service and this update is available.. i had heard a couple of folks with negative feedback on the other forum i believe..
Need to decide whether to pass on it for now.
Thanks

What did your dealer charge for the 55k service?

[07S6]

What did your dealer charge for the 55k service?

Picking it up tonight...but i did tell them to hold off on applying the TCM update for now.
I will tell you the standard quoted bundled price for 55K is around $800. However, i've done my own air/pollen filters, and will not be replacing the supercharger belt since i'm considering the pulley.
So, just getting oil change and spark plugs... plugs should be about an hour labor + ~$14/plug.
And need to start shopping for new rear brakes/rotors...for another day. Gotta decide if i'll stick w OEM pads.

[CoJoe]

I've always been skeptical of claims that the car "learns" how you drive. Anyone know how this learning occurs? Is it accelerometer based? Or slip ratio / slip angle / yaw rate based feedback telling the car you're driving in a spirited fashion?

I've found in both my old RS5 and current S7, hitting a corner hard and on the gas, or keeping a fast pace through twistys, or quick and hard gas, brake, gas causes the trans to hold gears longer for a period of time when in S mode. But after a few seconds of normal driving the car goes back to "normal" shifting

Any audi techs or engineers around?

[Xtek]

I've always been skeptical of claims that the car "learns" how you drive. Anyone know how this learning occurs? Is it accelerometer based? Or slip ratio / slip angle / yaw rate based feedback telling the car you're driving in a spirited fashion?

I've found in both my old RS5 and current S7, hitting a corner hard and on the gas, or keeping a fast pace through twistys, or quick and hard gas, brake, gas causes the trans to hold gears longer for a period of time when in S mode. But after a few seconds of normal driving the car goes back to "normal" shifting

Any audi techs or engineers around?

I have anecdotal evidence to say it does.

If I'm cruising on the highway for a long period of time and try and get on it, it really lags and requires more input than I would expect. If I'm romping on it, it seems to know what I'm doing.

I assume similar logic that's being used for seat belt tensioning is what's going on.

[eyeloveteeth]

I've always been skeptical of claims that the car "learns" how you drive. Anyone know how this learning occurs? Is it accelerometer based? Or slip ratio / slip angle / yaw rate based feedback telling the car you're driving in a spirited fashion?

I've found in both my old RS5 and current S7, hitting a corner hard and on the gas, or keeping a fast pace through twistys, or quick and hard gas, brake, gas causes the trans to hold gears longer for a period of time when in S mode. But after a few seconds of normal driving the car goes back to "normal" shifting

Any audi techs or engineers around?

I have anecdotal evidence to say it does.

If I'm cruising on the highway for a long period of time and try and get on it, it really lags and requires more input than I would expect. If I'm romping on it, it seems to know what I'm doing.

I assume similar logic that's being used for seat belt tensioning is what's going on.

honestly, before drive by wire was a thing, it was not possible to do this. However, I have seen this done on multiple vehicles with varying results. I agree with Xtek, even if i drive in "S", if i've been cruising for a while, and suddenly stomp, it's pretty underwhelming. Come to a full stop, and stomp, and it' still underwhelming. Switch back to D, and then back to S and stomp....BOOM.

but maybe i'm insane