Engine is toast....

[diagnosticator]

Its most likely only valve damage, yes, but it just so happens brand new short blocks are on special from Audi right now for $606.73, complete with new pistons.

http://genuineaudiparts.com/parts/in...&siteid=214407

At that price, it is worth doing a short block prophylactically, and a rebuilt head. That will essentially be a new engine for cheap.

BTW OP, the coolant pump runs with permanently greased/lubed ball bearings, the seized pump is due to failed bearings, it has nothing to do with the coolant itself.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

At that price, it is worth doing a short block prophylactically, and a rebuilt head. That will essentially be a new engine for cheap.

BTW OP, the coolant pump runs with permanently greased/lubed ball bearings, the seized pump is due to failed bearings, it has nothing to do with the coolant itself.

agree with this

my metal pump looked exactly like yours op

[Seerlah]

I am currently in the process of a budget build cylinder head project (real build with CNC porting and such). I save cost where I can, including valves. What I did was go with 12 intake and 8 Osvat valves. Cheapest tried and proven upgraded solid SS valves you will most likely find. Picked up all 20 for like $220 shipped. These valves are tried and proven by VW guys, so they aren't flunkies.

Intake 058109601CIT (12)
Exhaust 058109611EIT (8)

Where I picked mine up from: https://www.carpartsdiscount.com/

But with the cost of these valves, it would be much more cost efficient for you to source a used head for cheap and slap it on. Pick and pull in PA many go to around my way sells cylinder heads for $60 (you pull it yourself). Cost of the valve is one thing. There is other stuff involved, like are your guides still intact. If not, those will also need replacing. But when replacing guides, you would also want to replace the seat. See how price starts to add up? FWIW, when I bent valves I picked up a used one for $150 shipped from a forum member. It had no cams or CCT, but that was not a problem for me. Swapped the CCT and cams over from the head I bent valves in, pressure tested, decked, hot tanked, and was good to go. Head is currently on my car with a BT application with 10K+.

[texasboy21]

For $600 I want a new short block..

[customa4]

Haha, I don't like this thread! I'm buying a new engine. 'Comes with pistons'... What would need to be swapped over from the old short block?

[redline380]

Haha, I don't like this thread! I'm buying a new engine. 'Comes with pistons'... What would need to be swapped over from the old short block?

Fromt eh old short block? Essentially just the oil pan, but I guess you'd have to see once it came in.

[customa4]

I'm very tempted...

[redline380]

I'm very tempted...

Tempted? Unless you need upgraded rods, I would jump on that short block like a kangaroo jumping on a trampoline. A brand new block, pistons, crank, and bearings for $600? You literally can't rebuild yours for that price.

[customa4]

Yea but I've never taken a motor out before, so it would cost more than that. I've removed the head and done all timing components so I'm familiar with that but never the whole motor. I wonder if I can pick up the motor from a local dealer for around that price. Shipping would probably be a boatload from the West coast.

[redline380]

Yea but I've never taken a motor out before, so it would cost more than that. I've removed the head and done all timing components so I'm familiar with that but never the whole motor. I wonder if I can pick up the motor from a local dealer for around that price. Shipping would probably be a boatload from the West coast.

at jim ellis vw, total is $637 and change after shipping. Just buy it.

Taking a motor out isn't difficult. If you can change a tbelt, you can replace an engine.

[redline380]

just caught your question now. That price should be good at any dealer, but genuineaudiparts.com discounts it even further. Any other dealer price should be $699

[customa4]

I get shop prices at the dealer so maybe I'll give them a call. Got a part #? I can't get to GAP right now.

[redline380]

06b103101h

[Seerlah]

Pulling this engine is pretty easy. Some even do it without a hoist.

[Toolaa]

^^Agreed if you can replace the head and you've done the TB you cab handle the engine replacement from a technical standpoint. Biggest mistakes to be made are doing main and rod bearings which in this case would already be done.

That price is great. I just rebuilt my lower end without replacing the piston rings and my cost was about $380 in parts including a USED crankshaft. Had I gone this route I would have had to add more gaskets, bolts and other hardware to replace so maybe all in it would have cost me about $800. In the end that extra $400 seems like it would have been worth it.

I did have to purchase an engine stand and hoist for $200 at H.F. That I could probably sell on Craig's list for $150.

In hind sight I really wish I would have known about this deal a few months ago.


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[Midnightblkb5]

Pulling this engine is pretty easy. Some even do it without a hoist.

Done this three times

[t64030]

I'm glad I seen this thread. I just got my timing belt kit from ECS in the mail, I'll be sure and buy a hepu water pump before doing the job. I'm not going to risk putting the geba one on there.

[gotboost]

This post has me worried. Have about 8k miles on a ECS timing belt kit.

Good luck with the fix!

[Broncos10499]

This post has me worried. Have about 8k miles on a ECS timing belt kit.

Good luck with the fix!

Thank you! Just keep an eye out for that faulty water pump


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[AudiA4_20T]

how dinged up are the pistons? Not sure why everyone is saying he needs a whole new short block. A lot of times a new head is all you need.

[redline380]

how dinged up are the pistons? Not sure why everyone is saying he needs a whole new short block. A lot of times a new head is all you need.

Oh I wasn't saying he needed one. I highly doubt he does. But I offered up the link in case he does. That is a pretty good deal.

[SJorge3442]

Why are these so cheap???

[redline380]

Why are these so cheap???

Audi/VW discount a lot of parts at various times. They were originally $2736

[customa4]

just caught your question now. That price should be good at any dealer, but genuineaudiparts.com discounts it even further. Any other dealer price should be $699

Yupp, just got off the phone with a local dealer and it's $700.

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

So found out it was a GEBA.





All exhaust valves are bent and a couple intake as well. But, Not even going to bother with ECS haha, Ive seen other threads on their customer service. But thanks FromS60toB61.8t for the reply. I was looking at the valve kit. Any other high performance valves that you guys use? Just want to know what else is out there.

Please give customer service a call. Most parts come with a 1 year warranty, I'm sure if you give us a call and explain your situation we'd be happy to work with you the best we can.

Give Chris V in customer service a call. 1-800-924-5172 ex 263.

I'll also be in touch with the customer service manager about whether we should change the brand of water pump we include in this kit.

Jason

[Broncos10499]

Please give customer service a call. Most parts come with a 1 year warranty, I'm sure if you give us a call and explain your situation we'd be happy to work with you the best we can.

Give Chris V in customer service a call. 1-800-924-5172 ex 263.

I'll also be in touch with the customer service manager about whether we should change the brand of water pump we include in this kit.

Jason

Thank you Jason I will give him a call for sure. Appreciate that.

We had to wait for the head bolt tool to come in, so head is coming off today or tomorrow. Hopefully pistons aren't too bad

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

Thank you Jason I will give him a call for sure. Appreciate that.

We had to wait for the head bolt tool to come in, so head is coming off today or tomorrow. Hopefully pistons aren't too bad

We never like to hear things like this happening to our customers and do our best to provide our customers with quality parts in our kits. Unfortunately it's impossible to guarantee 100% against manufacture defects and the rate of failure. As we all know, even Genuine Audi parts can fail without warning.

Best of luck moving forward.

Jason

[tomsgtr]

I just called Jim Ells and the short block is indeed 700 but it doesn't show that their warehouses have in the country. They can probably still get them but who knows the ETA on that. Also their shipping quote is incorrect. Shipping could be around 250 dollars depending where you live.

[walky_talky20]

Looks like these GEBA pumps have been crap, and continue to be crap. Quote from B5 S4 section, circa March 2011:

I just looked into which pumps we use at my shop. We have had no issues with GRAF, HEPU, GMB, and APU Europarts water pumps. The one you really need to stay away form is GEBA. We have had numerous pump failures/leaking pumps due to failed bearings on the GEBA pumps. I would say you are in the clear using GRAF!

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post6246137

[Broncos10499]

Got the car finally finished. Went with a new hepa water pump.
And big thanks to ECS they were a huge help! Great costumer service!!
So everything is running great now, but one problem.... I think it's stuck in limp mode? I doesn't get past 4 psi if that.. When before it would hold at about 15psi. I'm on a neuspeed flash. So I was wondering if you guys had any ideas why? I'm going to check for boost/vacuum leaks.. But any other ideas would be awesome. Thanks guys!

[SJorge3442]

Got the car finally finished. Went with a new hepa water pump.
And big thanks to ECS they were a huge help! Great costumer service!!
So everything is running great now, but one problem.... I think it's stuck in limp mode? I doesn't get past 4 psi if that.. When before it would hold at about 15psi. I'm on a neuspeed flash. So I was wondering if you guys had any ideas why? I'm going to check for boost/vacuum leaks.. But any other ideas would be awesome. Thanks guys!

Boost leak test and then move forward from there. You may have a big leak somewhere that you dont know about it. Otherwise, we would all be guessing about the problem.

[seanf86]

Got the car finally finished. Went with a new hepa water pump.
And big thanks to ECS they were a huge help! Great costumer service!!
So everything is running great now, but one problem.... I think it's stuck in limp mode? I doesn't get past 4 psi if that.. When before it would hold at about 15psi. I'm on a neuspeed flash. So I was wondering if you guys had any ideas why? I'm going to check for boost/vacuum leaks.. But any other ideas would be awesome. Thanks guys!

Check and make sure your n75 is plugged in, I forgot and the car ran great minus the 5lbs boost it was making

[customa4]

Scan for codes. If the car is in limp mode there will most likely be a code even if a CEL is not displayed on the dash.

[redline380]

Check and make sure your n75 is plugged in, I forgot and the car ran great minus the 5lbs boost it was making

This is most likely the problem, or the hoses are not hooked up correct.

[Rommulus]

Add another person to the list with a failed GEBA water pump.

Mine went tits up after only 12K miles!! and did the exact same damage as the OP experienced... shredded timing belt, bent valves, requiring a total head rebuild. Seriously, the pictures of my damage, are 100% IDENTICAL to OP's pics.

I think it's pretty clear that ECS needs to get this shitty water pump out of their timing belt packages!

And to anyone with an ECS kit installed that included a GEBA brand pump... I'd pay to have it removed and replaced NOW before you're staring down the barrel of $4k in repairs.

[PreciseD]

Seems to me like a class action is in order. Should start a thread with when you bought the GEBA Pump, how many miles it lasted and the total out of pocket expenses to fix the damage that is directly related to the pump failure. While ECS only puts together these packages its their responsibility to test these products and stand behind them. If they don't (or any other company doesn't) just boycott further purchases and make it known on all forums how they handled the situation.

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

Seems to me like a class action is in order. Should start a thread with when you bought the GEBA Pump, how many miles it lasted and the total out of pocket expenses to fix the damage that is directly related to the pump failure. While ECS only puts together these packages its their responsibility to test these products and stand behind them. If they don't (or any other company doesn't) just boycott further purchases and make it known on all forums how they handled the situation.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread we do keep track of failures. But when we sell hundreds of these pumps per year in our kits and we only hear of 2 failing on this specific forum and maybe another one or 2 that just call in that's still a pretty high success rate. We are keeping an eye on it though. These are German made pumps and not a Chinese knock off. I've searched on the web regarding HEPU pumps and you can find people that have experienced failures with them too.

As stated in our terms of use/warranty section we are not responsible for any damages that may have occurred by using the products that we sell. We do not pay for consequential, incidental and contingent damages or costs incurred of any kind, including the cost incurred directly or indirectly in relation to products sold by ECS Tuning including labor or product coverage. We will only replace the defective product that was originally purchased from us.

It is definitely an unfortunate event that some customers experience, but no one part is guaranteed 100% against failure.

Any further issues should be forwarded to Customer Service [email protected] Or 1-800-924-5172 ex 134

Jason

[g huns]

Chalk up another failed Geba pump from an ECS kit...



38k miles on it.

[diagnosticator]

4 grand? really?



Most likely, he has a ton of bent valves. Grab a used small port head and tbelt kit and we are talking less than 1k to get it back on the road. Worst case scenario, every single piston is junk. Grab some used ones with new crank/rod bearings, some new rings, and at the very most he has 2k into fixing it.

True, but I think the higher quote includes labor charges.

[diagnosticator]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Do you by chance know what make the water pump was? I had a one go out at 55k miles. It was a Geba pump that I picked up from Europaparts. The replacement was a Hepu.

This is why I am using only OEM coolant pumps from the dealer. The plastic impeller fitted to OEM coolant pumps is not an issue in comparison, since a cracked impeller won't wreck the engine. A seized pump bearing will grenade the head.

BTW, Re: Prior posts, the coolant properties used in the cooling system has no effect on the pump bearing durability. The pump bearing is not exposed to the coolant in the system.