Ugh...white smoke from the exhaust

[kegobeer]

Ok, so while clearing a P310B code I noticed a lot of white smoke billowing out of the exhaust. Naturally, I freaked out and shit my pants. Now that I'm cleaned up, I'm looking for possible causes. White smoke is usually coolant, but I've read of reports that people with failing turbos saw a lot of white smoke (not blueish like an oil burn would cause). I received a boost code P0299 since I got my JHM stage 1 tune, so DV/PCV/vacuum/turbo issues are a definite possibility.

Things I've checked so far:

• VAGCOM - no codes since I cleared it.
• No milky substance on the dipstick.
• No oil residue in the expansion tank.
• Coolant level at MAX.
• I don't see any bubbles in the expansion tank.
• Oil level good.
• No milky substance around oil filler cap.
• Did a blow test on the PCV - air didn't enter the PCV.

Odd shit I've discovered:

• If I disconnect the PCV breather tube from the intake manifold, the car will stall - as in I don't have enough time to remove the tube and cover the intake manifold port before it dies. If I try to start the car, it will start and then die. If I plug the intake manifold while the breather tube is disconnected, the car will idle just fine.
• I can remove the oil filler cap and dipstick easily, but when I do there's no loss of vacuum - the idle doesn't drop or become erratic.
• The smoke has dropped off dramatically, and now it smokes a little bit - the exhaust is very damp, like my hands would get wet if they stayed in the exhaust long enough. It also doesn't smell sweet like coolant, or rich like gas is dumping into the exhaust. It just smells bad, nothing like standard exhaust.

I drove it a very small distance, just around my cul-de-sac, and the car runs fine. It doesn't jerk, shake, falter, or anything like that. The smoke is there but not excessive like it was when I first noticed it.

Things I'm going to try:

• Compression test - looking for 150-200 psi
• Block tester - checking for exhaust gasses in the coolant lines

Any other tests/ideas for troubleshooting?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[vce1232000]

Miles ?

[kegobeer]

118500 miles. Cam follower, cam shaft, HPFP all replaced under warranty a year ago. The car has been babied, no hard driving. The tune was done Saturday.

[vce1232000]

Can you check turbo with a boast gauge and see if it has erratic or low psi readings

[kegobeer]

Can you check turbo with a boast gauge and see if it has erratic or low psi readings

I don't have a boost gauge. It's on my need to buy list.

[Tanzimur]

first pull the plugs see if thier wet of oil and carbon built, next hows your oil level looking after drives? and last but extensive pull the cat off and feel back side off turb too feel and see if wet with oil

[kegobeer]

Oil level hasn't changed. I've had some oil consumption, but nothing out of the ordinary. Usually top up right before 5000 miles or so. I'll check the plugs when I pull them for the compression test.

[xander3zero]

Shouldn't the idle get rough when you pull the dipstick or remove the oil filler cap??


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[kegobeer]

Shouldn't the idle get rough when you pull the dipstick or remove the oil filler cap??


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Yep. I pulled my filler cap 2 months ago or so, and my idle went all over the place.

[xander3zero]

Yep. I pulled my filler cap 2 months ago or so, and my idle went all over the place.

I would say there is a pcv problem then

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[mec]

I would say there is a pcv problem then

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This, sounds very much pcv related.

[xander3zero]

damn dude I hope you get this figured out and your turbo is okay...you just flashed JHM didnt you?

[kegobeer]

damn dude I hope you get this figured out and your turbo is okay...you just flashed JHM didnt you?

Yep, flashed on Saturday. If the turbo is bad, at least I can go used and save some cash. I'm going to pull the PCV tonight and inspect it. My local VW dealer has the PCV and gasket in stock cheaper than Europaparts, so at least the car won't be down too long if the PCV is indeed the problem.

[kegobeer]

I removed the PCV and this is how the gasket and valve cover looks:



The PCV doesn't appear broken, and no air can be blown into it. Is there something I should notice that will identify it as broken?

I also pulled the spark plugs. Two had a little oil on the threads, but otherwise they look normal.

[Jake@JHM]

Hmm.. did you open up the PCV to look at the diaphragm? Also, you have the early style valve cover and that could be failing as well which gives the symptoms of a PCV issue, without the PCV actually being bad. The exhaust feeling moist could be because of moister built up inside of your exhaust system. Smoke in the exhaust is also common with PCV failure.

[kegobeer]

I haven't looked at the diaphragm yet. I pulled the air filter and found some oil not on the filter but on the housing. Any idea how oil got in that crevice?

[Jake@JHM]

No idea how that would get oil on it lol

[kegobeer]

PCV looks good.

[xander3zero]

PCV looks good.

The cap of the pcv just pops off like that right? you can just pop it off with your hands?

What revision pcv is it? also what revision is your breather tube?

[kegobeer]

The cap of the pcv just pops off like that right? you can just pop it off with your hands?

What revision pcv is it? also what revision is your breather tube?

I didn't look at the part number when I removed it, but I think it's the latest one. There's a valve in there, but so far no one can tell me how to test if the valve is working correctly. I might just buy a new one.

Yep, you can take the top off the PCV - use a small flathead screwdriver to slowly remove it. There's a spring in there so be careful when you remove it.

[mec]

I didn't look at the part number when I removed it, but I think it's the latest one. There's a valve in there, but so far no one can tell me how to test if the valve is working correctly. I might just buy a new one.

Yep, you can take the top off the PCV - use a small flathead screwdriver to slowly remove it. There's a spring in there so be careful when you remove it.

The front PCV is used for idling. If you see white smoke when idling, it is a front pcv failure( The one in your picture). However, the Rear PCV is what is used when in boost.

Let me explain it this way, Your intake manfiold can only be in two different stages.
1. Vacuum (idling)
2. Positive Pressure (partial throttle or WOT)

for 1. the rear pcv is closed and the suction in the manifold will pull open a check valve that will suction off the Crankcase pressure.
for 2. the positive pressure in the manifold will push against the front pcv and shut it, meaning the front pcv is not working at all, however, the venturi effect from boost in the rear pcv will suck open the rear pcv check valve and you will have crankcase pressure siphoned out through there.

Make sure to check your rear PCV as well, that is most likely your culprit.

[xander3zero]

The front PCV is used for idling. If you see white smoke when idling, it is a front pcv failure( The one in your picture). However, the Rear PCV is what is used when in boost.

Let me explain it this way, Your intake manfiold can only be in two different stages.
1. Vacuum (idling)
2. Positive Pressure (partial throttle or WOT)

for 1. the rear pcv is closed and the suction in the manifold will pull open a check valve that will suction off the Crankcase pressure.
for 2. the positive pressure in the manifold will push against the front pcv and shut it, meaning the front pcv is not working at all, however, the venturi effect from boost in the rear pcv will suck open the rear pcv check valve and you will have crankcase pressure siphoned out through there.

Make sure to check your rear PCV as well, that is most likely your culprit.

I thought that from this:

"NOTE ON CHECK VALVES IN THESE CRANKCASE VENT VALVES: The only difference between early and late is that the early ones have a check valve located in the round hole next to the rectangle hole on the flange side where it bolts to the valve cover. The shape and look of the housing does not matter since Audi used several different externally looking housings through their supersession of the parts. If you install the wrong PCV valve on your car you can have idle issues. More info on this and the PCV - turbo to valve cover breather tube combinations as follows.
--EARLY PCV Crankcase Vent Valves: These have a check valve in the actual PCV (crankcase vent valve) and there is NO check valve in the end of the metal breather pipe that bolts to the turbo and connects to the valve cover on the passenger side via a short portion of hose.
--LATE PCV Crankcase Vent Valves: These have NO check valve in the actual PCV (crankcase vent valve) and there is a check valve in the end of the metal breather pipe that bolts to the turbo and connects to the valve cover on the passenger side via a short portion of hose."

there is only one check valve between the PCV and the breather hose.

[Jake@JHM]

Yea so far the symptoms don't quite sound like a blown turbo. Those usually leave a James Bond Smoke screen behind you at all times and doesn't magically start getting better.

For giggles, before I installed my 034MS Catch Can, I pressure tested my system to see how the 2.0T PCV reacts (since the 2.7T one needs to be plugged beforehand) and it guess what? It caused a ton of white smoke to come out of my exhaust for about a mile of driving and it slowly wore off. I have a feeling that this is a PCV/VC issue.

[kegobeer]

You guys think I should just replace the breather tube and the PCV, even though the PCV diaphragm looks good? Just to be on the safe side?

[Jake@JHM]

You guys think I should just replace the breather tube and the PCV, even though the PCV diaphragm looks good? Just to be on the safe side?

I havn't seen a breather tube actually fail yet. I am more curious as to if your VC is failing. As for the PCV, even if there are no tears it has the possibility of not functioning correctly.

[kegobeer]

I went ahead and swapped the PCV and gasket, and left the breather tube alone - just reinstalled it. I also swapped the DV, since I can get to the top bolt from above instead of trying to do it blind from underneath the car. Seems like the smoke is almost gone now, and when I pull the dipstick the idle goes nuts and almost stalls - a good sign. While I was installing the PCV I noticed there were only 3 screws instead of 4. Looks like when Audi replaced the PCV the failed to put all the screws back in. I'm going to get another one installed once I hit the hardware store and find one close. Might have the VW dealer order one and then swap it out later.

I'm going to monitor everything for the next couple of days and see how things go. Hopefully this fixes everything.

Thanks for all the input, guys. Mucho appreciate-o.

[Jake@JHM]

I went ahead and swapped the PCV and gasket, and left the breather tube alone - just reinstalled it. I also swapped the DV, since I can get to the top bolt from above instead of trying to do it blind from underneath the car. Seems like the smoke is almost gone now, and when I pull the dipstick the idle goes nuts and almost stalls - a good sign. While I was installing the PCV I noticed there were only 3 screws instead of 4. Looks like when Audi replaced the PCV the failed to put all the screws back in. I'm going to get another one installed once I hit the hardware store and find one close. Might have the VW dealer order one and then swap it out later.

I'm going to monitor everything for the next couple of days and see how things go. Hopefully this fixes everything.

Thanks for all the input, guys. Mucho appreciate-o.

Missing bolt could = vac leak at the PCV can that can some issues

[xander3zero]

I went ahead and swapped the PCV and gasket, and left the breather tube alone - just reinstalled it. I also swapped the DV, since I can get to the top bolt from above instead of trying to do it blind from underneath the car. Seems like the smoke is almost gone now, and when I pull the dipstick the idle goes nuts and almost stalls - a good sign. While I was installing the PCV I noticed there were only 3 screws instead of 4. Looks like when Audi replaced the PCV the failed to put all the screws back in. I'm going to get another one installed once I hit the hardware store and find one close. Might have the VW dealer order one and then swap it out later.

I'm going to monitor everything for the next couple of days and see how things go. Hopefully this fixes everything.

Thanks for all the input, guys. Mucho appreciate-o.

so swapping the PCV helped a bit even though you couldnt blow through it, and the diaphragm looked good? What part number was the PCV before and what did you swap it with?

[kegobeer]

so swapping the PCV helped a bit even though you couldnt blow through it, and the diaphragm looked good? What part number was the PCV before and what did you swap it with?

Revision P, just like the one I bought today. Identical part numbers - the one for late VIN B7s.

[xander3zero]

Revision P, just like the one I bought today. Identical part numbers - the one for late VIN B7s.

What is the part number on your breather tube? from my understanding you want to make sure you either of these two combinations and not a mixture:
Early VIN - rev. N PCV and rev. G breather
Or
Late VIN - rev. P PCV and rev. A breather

[kegobeer]

What is the part number on your breather tube? from my understanding you want to make sure you either of these two combinations and not a mixture:
Early VIN - rev. N PCV and rev. G breather
Or
Late VIN - rev. P PCV and rev. A breather

I'll have to check, but I think it's the right one. I have a check valve in my breather tube and no check valve in my PCV.

[Jake@JHM]

revision p, just like the one i bought today. Identical part numbers - the one for late vin b7s.

empty your inboxxxxx

[kegobeer]

Emptied!

[canadianA4B7]

I recently had some issues similar to yours, and it was oil in my intercooler. mine was strange though, it would only happen stopped at lights, or if car sat at idle for longer then 2-4 minutes. it would puff out white/light gray/blue smoke. it was strange as ever. removed the intercooler, there was some oil in the intercooler. cleaned it all out and now theres not a puff of smoke. I might think mine is oil turbo seals. but my car is actually within specs for oil consumption. on my stage 3 car I burn approx. 1 litre between oil changes.

[kegobeer]

I haven't checked the passenger side intercooler yet, but I have a feeling it's going to have more than normal oil in there. I'm still worried about the turbo, but so far since I've replaced my PCV (and got that missing 4th bolt installed) I haven't had any codes except for the stupid P310B. Jake is helping me diagnose this stuff by using logs with different measuring blocks at different speeds and gears. If he can isolate my turbo and fuel issues, I'll share with the group.

[mec]

I haven't checked the passenger side intercooler yet, but I have a feeling it's going to have more than normal oil in there. I'm still worried about the turbo, but so far since I've replaced my PCV (and got that missing 4th bolt installed) I haven't had any codes except for the stupid P310B. Jake is helping me diagnose this stuff by using logs with different measuring blocks at different speeds and gears. If he can isolate my turbo and fuel issues, I'll share with the group.

Easiest way to find what is getting into the exhaust is to smell it. You can totally tell what it is from smelling it, though its not the healthiest option.

The secondary option is to top off all fluids, go for a long drive, make sure you get the smoke, and then stop, let the fluids settle and measure them to make sure that one of them went down, thats your culprit.

If your turbo is going out, you should look at picking up a b8 turbo. no one seems to have done this yet, but hte b8 has the same head as we do, and the turbo they use flows even more than our stock k03. Or if you want to put a bit more money into it you could pick up a k04 kit. I recently went on a drive with a k04 guy, he had e85 and a United Motorsports tune. I had him up to like 120ish, but I could see him in my rearview mirror pulling, inching closer and closer to me...The k04 is no joke!

[aluthman]

Easiest way to find what is getting into the exhaust is to smell it. You can totally tell what it is from smelling it, though its not the healthiest option.

The secondary option is to top off all fluids, go for a long drive, make sure you get the smoke, and then stop, let the fluids settle and measure them to make sure that one of them went down, thats your culprit.

If your turbo is going out, you should look at picking up a b8 turbo. no one seems to have done this yet, but hte b8 has the same head as we do, and the turbo they use flows even more than our stock k03. Or if you want to put a bit more money into it you could pick up a k04 kit. I recently went on a drive with a k04 guy, he had e85 and a United Motorsports tune. I had him up to like 120ish, but I could see him in my rearview mirror pulling, inching closer and closer to me...The k04 is no joke!

It does? Doesn't the TFSI version have a different hpfp setup and valve cover arrangement? Or were you just referring to the exhaust port and bolt pattern for bolting the turbo on?

[mec]

It does? Doesn't the TFSI version have a different hpfp setup and valve cover arrangement? Or were you just referring to the exhaust port and bolt pattern for bolting the turbo on?

Ha whoops! yeah i totally didn't mean to phrase it that way. It has a way different head but the ports are the same size, VE is the same, flows the same amount. that kinda jam.

[aluthman]

Ha whoops! yeah i totally didn't mean to phrase it that way. It has a way different head but the ports are the same size, VE is the same, flows the same amount. that kinda jam.

Roger dodger

[yung turbo]

hopefully you find out what going on because i have the same issue right now. No codes but i feel it trying to go into boost and when i try to accelerate more i start to see white smoke come out the back and it kinda smells like burning oil.