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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Clutch question: pull tranny or motor?

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    97 A4 TQM

    Going to be doing my clutch this upcoming weekend, flywheel, pressure plate, and disc. Being that I don't have a lift and only jackstands, I'm assuming it'll be easier to pull the motor. My question is, is the throw out bearing replaceable with the tranny still in the vehicle? The pilot bearing will obviously be replaced on the motor side, but my biggest concern is the throw out bearing being inaccessible. Thanks in advance to anyone with any advice!

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  2. #2
    Established Member Two Rings
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    should be ez to get to with motor out if its anything like my b5 s4 2.7tt

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings redline380's Avatar
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    Pull the motor for sure.
    "During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Al Gore, former Vice President of the United States of America

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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Fudge. I was all geared up to bench press my tranny back in ;).

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  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    I've done B5 clutch replacement twice on jack stands, with the engine in. This last time I toyed with engine pull but ultimately decided against it, one big reason was that I didn't want to mess with power steering lines and bleeding, but also didn't want to pull the engine harness. Doesn't help that I didn't have a cherry picker lol.
    If you get something like the Harbor Freight trans jack, it isn't too bad. Just gotta lift the car really high.
    2001.5 S4 Avant: Motoza E85 Stage 1+, SSAC HFC DPs + Borla 3" catback, APR bipipe, AWE SMICs, DW300 fuel pump, TTV FW + B7 RS4 clutch, JHM shifter, metal clutch slave + SS line, 2.0T coils, lowered, Aero wipers, SS brake lines, receiving lots of love ($$$)

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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings GrapeBandit's Avatar
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    I have to pull my trans. going to do ot tomorrow. still deciding if I want to pull th3 engine instead. dropping transmissions is my least favorite thing in the world.
    r.i.p.CASABLANCA B5 1.8t
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  7. #7
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    It would be a no brainer if I had a lift, or even a true trans jack, but from what I can tell by the DIY articles I've read it's simply easier to pull the motor, even if it takes a bit longer. Now that you mention power steering lines... Ugh. I do need to replace my PS pump though so maybe that'd be a good thing to pull the motor.

    I feel like lowering the motor in would be easier than lifting the tranny up and less risky in terms of getting everything lined up.

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  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings redline380's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMan View Post
    This last time I toyed with engine pull but ultimately decided against it, one big reason was that I didn't want to mess with power steering lines and bleeding, but also didn't want to pull the engine harness.
    Completely unnecessary to remove the PS pump. Just like the AC compressor, you just unbolt it and flop it to the side. Last time I pulled my engine I did the rack, and bleeding took about 5 seconds.
    "During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Al Gore, former Vice President of the United States of America

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  9. #9
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    That's definitely good news. I ditched the AC months ago so I won't have any of that garbage to contend with.

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  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings walky_talky20's Avatar
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    - You don't have to mess with power steering bleeding. Just toss the pump off to the side without disconnecting the lines. Not a big deal at all.
    - The thing you would worry about is the trans cooler lines, if it's auto-trans. Still not a huge deal, though.
    - One BIG plus to pulling the engine is that you get free access to drop the pan and clean your oil pickup. This is the killer of 1.8T's, so I highly recommend you do it.
    - Yes, you can replace the throwout bearing with the transmission in the car. You can even to the input shaft seal if you want.
    ^Don't listen to this guy, he's not even a mechanic.
    2001 Laser Red A4 1.8TQM, 5-Speed Swapped, 4.11 Final Drive, APR 93, R8 coil packs, Labree HFC & DP, 2.5" Exhaust, ST Coilovers, 034 RSB, A8 Brakes Front & Rear, 18" RS4 Reps
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  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings redline380's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walky_talky20 View Post
    - One BIG plus to pulling the engine is that you get free access to drop the pan and clean your oil pickup. This is the killer of 1.8T's, so I highly recommend you do it.



    "During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Al Gore, former Vice President of the United States of America

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  12. #12
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Optimally I wanted to replace all that stuff (oil pickup tube and what not), but after spending near $1000 on my clutch setup, cleaning the pickup tube is my only option lol. I'm DEFINITELY going to be doing that along with replacing the PS pump (mine is toast).

    In terms of cleaning the pickup tube, guessing a can of carb/brake cleaner will work just fine? Along with removing visible contaminants obviously.

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  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings nynoah's Avatar
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    Pull the engine and tranny as a unit. Much easier to deal with that way.
    2001.5 black on black avant 5spd, EFR 6758, Pag Parts band manifold, Vibrant GESI High flow CAT, 2.0L 06A, IE intake manifold, built AEB head, 1000cc Boosted Euro Tune, bosch 044, Ringer Racing stage 3 hybrid Organic/Cerametalic 240mm clutch, S4 interior upgrade, full S4 brakes front and rear with lines, 17in OZ Racing Ultraleggera, 034 HD suspension arms, Stern soft mounts, mirimoto bixenon etc. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...s-Build-thread

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings redline380's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodgman15 View Post
    Optimally I wanted to replace all that stuff (oil pickup tube and what not), but after spending near $1000 on my clutch setup, cleaning the pickup tube is my only option lol. I'm DEFINITELY going to be doing that along with replacing the PS pump (mine is toast).

    In terms of cleaning the pickup tube, guessing a can of carb/brake cleaner will work just fine? Along with removing visible contaminants obviously.

    Sent from my HTC One

    A pickup tube is around $20, and I don't know how much the gasket is but it aint a ton. You can spend an extra $50 to do it right.

    Pro tip- pick up a bottle of zip strip. Its nasty stuff, but literally melts sludge away.
    "During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Al Gore, former Vice President of the United States of America

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  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Sounds so simple haha. Didn't even think of pulling the PS pump like you do with the AC compressor! Still doesn't help if you don't have a source for borrowing a cherry picker and engine stand or have the space to store them (if you buy them).
    2001.5 S4 Avant: Motoza E85 Stage 1+, SSAC HFC DPs + Borla 3" catback, APR bipipe, AWE SMICs, DW300 fuel pump, TTV FW + B7 RS4 clutch, JHM shifter, metal clutch slave + SS line, 2.0T coils, lowered, Aero wipers, SS brake lines, receiving lots of love ($$$)

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  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings redline380's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMan View Post
    Sounds so simple haha. Didn't even think of pulling the PS pump like you do with the AC compressor! Still doesn't help if you don't have a source for borrowing a cherry picker and engine stand or have the space to store them (if you buy them).

    For some reason I am in a pic-happy response mood this morning









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  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings nynoah's Avatar
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    Don't be a cheap ass, buy a new pickup tube. If that thing clogs, your engine is toast. Your 50 dollar savings just cost you 2K or more. Cleaning it.... well unless you have real cleaning solvents at your disposal for FREE, it not worth the 30 dollar savings. The oil pickup tube is the Achilles heel of the 1.8t.
    2001.5 black on black avant 5spd, EFR 6758, Pag Parts band manifold, Vibrant GESI High flow CAT, 2.0L 06A, IE intake manifold, built AEB head, 1000cc Boosted Euro Tune, bosch 044, Ringer Racing stage 3 hybrid Organic/Cerametalic 240mm clutch, S4 interior upgrade, full S4 brakes front and rear with lines, 17in OZ Racing Ultraleggera, 034 HD suspension arms, Stern soft mounts, mirimoto bixenon etc. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...s-Build-thread

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings nynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMan View Post
    Sounds so simple haha. Didn't even think of pulling the PS pump like you do with the AC compressor! Still doesn't help if you don't have a source for borrowing a cherry picker and engine stand or have the space to store them (if you buy them).
    Buy a used one of Craigslist. Then sell it for what you paid for it when done.
    2001.5 black on black avant 5spd, EFR 6758, Pag Parts band manifold, Vibrant GESI High flow CAT, 2.0L 06A, IE intake manifold, built AEB head, 1000cc Boosted Euro Tune, bosch 044, Ringer Racing stage 3 hybrid Organic/Cerametalic 240mm clutch, S4 interior upgrade, full S4 brakes front and rear with lines, 17in OZ Racing Ultraleggera, 034 HD suspension arms, Stern soft mounts, mirimoto bixenon etc. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...s-Build-thread

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nynoah View Post
    Don't be a cheap ass, buy a new pickup tube. If that thing clogs, your engine is toast. Your 50 dollar savings just cost you 2K or more. Cleaning it.... well unless you have real cleaning solvents at your disposal for FREE, it not worth the 30 dollar savings. The oil pickup tube is the Achilles heel of the 1.8t.
    Lol i didn't realize it was that cheap.

    No worries on being a cheap ass haha, I've got thousands in tools, and I'd have access to a hoist if my old man hadn't retired and sold his shop a year ago. At my work I have access to every chemical under the sun, there's nothing aircraft stripper can't remove :)

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  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings GrapeBandit's Avatar
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    real cleaning solvents such as diesel fuel can be found up the street for cheap. thats what I use in my parts cleaner. its a great degreaser
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  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings walky_talky20's Avatar
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    For the pickup screens: soak in carb cleaner, then light it on fire.

    Replace with new works, too.
    ^Don't listen to this guy, he's not even a mechanic.
    2001 Laser Red A4 1.8TQM, 5-Speed Swapped, 4.11 Final Drive, APR 93, R8 coil packs, Labree HFC & DP, 2.5" Exhaust, ST Coilovers, 034 RSB, A8 Brakes Front & Rear, 18" RS4 Reps
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  22. #22
    Registered User Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodgman15 View Post
    It would be a no brainer if I had a lift, or even a true trans jack, but from what I can tell by the DIY articles I've read it's simply easier to pull the motor, even if it takes a bit longer. Now that you mention power steering lines... Ugh. I do need to replace my PS pump though so maybe that'd be a good thing to pull the motor.

    I feel like lowering the motor in would be easier than lifting the tranny up and less risky in terms of getting everything lined up.

    Sent from my HTC One
    You don't need a trans jack if all your doing is a clutch/flywheel install. You can do the job with just a single floor jack to lower the transmission down and then back up, you just leave it on the jack pushed back while you are dealing with the clutch/flywheel. When you go to put it back in you just lift it up with the floor jack and slide it into place lifting it slightly from the back so you can turn it slightly and spinning the rear flange to line up the spline with the clutch spline. I have done it that way for years without any problems. It is just tougher if your swapping transmissions since at that point you have to pull the transmission out from car.

    I don't have an exhaust on my car just a down pipe and it only takes me about 30 minutes to have my transmission complete down on the floor and that is with the car on jack stands and 1 floor jack. But then I have done it way too many times on my own A4. lol


    Throw-out bearing is on the clutch fork which will be in plain site and accessible if you pull the transmission out or if you pull the motor out. You will see it once the transmission and motor are separated from each other.

    BTW if you plan on pulling the pilot bearing make sure you have a slide hammer bearing puller, other wise it will be a huge PITA to get out. Also make sure you put the new pilot bearing in the right way seeing 1 side of the bearing has a slightly larger opening then the other, if you put it in backwards the input shaft can catch and drag on it causing shifting issues. The pilot bearing is one of those parts that should only be replaced if it is bad, no point in replacing if it is perfectly fine which is why most clutch kits don't come with one.

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings GrapeBandit's Avatar
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    ^the best, easiest amd fastest way to remove pilot bearing is with bread...
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  24. #24
    Registered User Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrapeBandit View Post
    ^the best, easiest amd fastest way to remove pilot bearing is with bread...
    Haven't tried that, but then it only took me less then 1 minute to remove one with a slide hammer bearing puller and I didn't have to make a mess. lol




    The pilot bearing goes in pretty tight, so it doesn't come out all that easy without some force.

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings GrapeBandit's Avatar
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    bread method is super quick too, and everyone has some in their house. no need to pay for a tool. I know it sounds weird and most ppl probably never heard of it, but it works like a charm
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  26. #26
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    I think I'm going to pull the motor as opposed to the tranny, that way I can service the oil pickup tube. Does the oil pan have a gasket or is it just sealant? If so, RTV red?

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  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings redline380's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrapeBandit View Post
    bread method is super quick too, and everyone has some in their house. no need to pay for a tool. I know it sounds weird and most ppl probably never heard of it, but it works like a charm
    care to elaborate?
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  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings redline380's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodgman15 View Post
    I think I'm going to pull the motor as opposed to the tranny, that way I can service the oil pickup tube. Does the oil pan have a gasket or is it just sealant? If so, RTV red?

    Sent from my HTC One
    yes, aeb's have a gasket. and I think it uses sealant in certain places too, but not positive
    "During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Al Gore, former Vice President of the United States of America

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  29. #29
    Veteran Member Four Rings GrapeBandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redline380 View Post
    care to elaborate?
    look at my above post, I added a video of it. the bread has nowhere to go when its hammer3d in, and it forces the pilot out

    058 blocks get gaskets, 06a/06b sealant
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  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings redline380's Avatar
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    I don't think the bread method would work on a 1.8t. the race is so narrow it would hard for it to grab. I kinda want to try it though
    "During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Al Gore, former Vice President of the United States of America

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  31. #31
    Registered User Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrapeBandit View Post
    bread method is super quick too, and everyone has some in their house. no need to pay for a tool. I know it sounds weird and most ppl probably never heard of it, but it works like a charm
    Ok but it not might not work on every car seeing it will depend on how wedged in that pilot bearing is. I tried doing it like that but using something other then bread it it would not budge which is why I ended up using a pilot bearing puller which I have used a few times already.


    BTW the bearing in the video is pretty large while the one on the A4 is really small and has very little space behind since the hole in the crank is not very deep.

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings GrapeBandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redline380 View Post
    I don't think the bread method would work on a 1.8t. the race is so narrow it would hard for it to grab. I kinda want to try it though
    I have done it on my 1.8. do you think I just bable nonsense
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  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings redline380's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrapeBandit View Post
    I have done it on my 1.8. do you think I just bable nonsense
    No, but that's impressive. I'm totally trying it next time. last time I had a hard time finding a slide hammer attachment that would fit inside the bearing nicely

    and I forgot. not sure if your avatar picture was taken in person, but I got one in person last week
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  34. #34
    Veteran Member Four Rings GrapeBandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redline380 View Post
    No, but that's impressive. I'm totally trying it next time. last time I had a hard time finding a slide hammer attachment that would fit inside the bearing nicely
    haha. i know it sounds asinine, but it really worked. ive done it twice on 1.8t pilot bearings. believe me, I was skeptical before I tried, and surprised after it actually worked..lol
    I forgot what size socket I used, but I put the socket in backwards to have the most flat area facing the engine, put the extension inside, and hammer3d away
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  35. #35
    Registered User Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrapeBandit View Post
    I have done it on my 1.8. do you think I just bable nonsense
    But was it that easy like in that video? Because it is working on surface area and pressure, the smaller the bearing surface area on the back means less pressure against it to push it out. The 1.8t pilot bearing has very little surface area since the body is so small.


  36. #36
    Veteran Member Four Rings GrapeBandit's Avatar
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    ^it was just as easy as it looks. like I said, I was surprised myself how well/easy it worked out
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  37. #37
    Veteran Member Four Rings redline380's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Hood View Post
    But was it that easy like in that video? Because it is working on surface area and pressure, the smaller the bearing surface area on the back means less pressure against it to push it out. The 1.8t pilot bearing has very little surface area since the body is so small.
    Think about that longer. Same force over smaller area equals greater pressure.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by redline380 View Post
    Think about that longer. Same force over smaller area equals greater pressure.

    Yes but only if pressure is still the same. I tried doing this with something other then bread and only thing it did was waste my time. lol

  39. #39
    Veteran Member Four Rings GrapeBandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Hood View Post
    Yes but only if pressure is still the same. I tried doing this with something other then bread and only thing it did was waste my time. lol
    what did you use? grease? I know ppl have tri3d grease and failed. bread is thicker than water...lol
    r.i.p.CASABLANCA B5 1.8t
    r.i.p.BRILLIANT YELLOW B5 30V

    PCV? Just dump it on the ground!

  40. #40
    Veteran Member Four Rings Seerlah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 05 2007
    AZ Member #
    23104
    Location
    A place between here and there

    Quote Originally Posted by redline380 View Post
    I don't think the bread method would work on a 1.8t. the race is so narrow it would hard for it to grab. I kinda want to try it though
    It works. Guy in the B6 section did it and they were making fun of him for it. Why? Because he wanted to save some money, I guess
    I hate it when my car acts like a little bitch, treating me like a bitch

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