Avant Facelift LED Taillight howto

[Smac770]

B8.0 vs B8.5, US vs EU, sedan vs wagon, incandescent vs LED; if any of the four aspects are different, then the factory wiring and coding is different.

[ItsCAvalos]

Any recommendations on led reverse lights? Or at least whiter ones?


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[jko415]

does anyone know the part# to the allroad inner led tail light connector?

[Smac770]

5 pin (1x5) - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...ing/3b0972705/
8 pin (2x4) - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...ing/3b0972724/

B8.5 US wagon LED inner should have the 1x5 plug.

[jko415]

5 pin (1x5) - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...ing/3b0972705/
8 pin (2x4) - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...ing/3b0972724/

B8.5 US wagon LED inner should have the 1x5 plug.

It is a single row 8 pin plug.

87719272-D50D-4CB1-B225-E239FE5140A8.jpg

[Smac770]

Not sure what to offer, the parts catalog page shows only the 8-pin part number that is the 2x4 layout. There's no 1x8 layout plug listed. It seems odd for the US LED one to use an 8-pin socket when only 5 pins are used, when the US incandescent, EU incandescent, and EU LED versions are all 5 pin sockets. It looks like the 2x4 gets used on the B8.5 US LED sedan inner. And it appears Audi dropped the ball documenting both 8 pin variations.

Is the part number not there on the plug already on the car?

[Smac770]

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-...lamps-2875170/

Similar was documented here, but no worthwhile conclusion regarding the correct part number for the 1x8 plug for the B8.5 US wagon LED inner tail lamps.

[darren.kellum]

I too have never seen this one. I don't think this is it but you might be able to mod it to make it fit.
3D0972708A
Ebay or Aliexpress

[jko415]

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-...lamps-2875170/

Similar was documented here, but no worthwhile conclusion regarding the correct part number for the 1x8 plug for the B8.5 US wagon LED inner tail lamps.

I too have never seen this one. I don't think this is it but you might be able to mod it to make it fit.
3D0972708A
Ebay or Aliexpress

Thanks for the input.

I can confirmed that 3D0972708 is the correct connector for the b8.5 allroad led inner taillights and the outer taillight connector is 8K0973705. Other than the different plugs, wiring and coding was exactly the same as the EU version.

[darren.kellum]

Great glad you got it sorted and we solved the mystery plug part number!

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[Smac770]

Go figure, the B8.5 5-door LED wiring is the same for US and EU, though as you've seen Audi had to find some way to complicate things with the changed connector on the inner modules.

But the coding is definitely not the same, assuming you're trying to implement the original factory coding of that configuration. EU has a turn element and a brake element. US uses both those elements as brake and turn.

For whatever coding you already have in place, it seems you would not notice any difference with either the US or EU part number (for B8.5 5-door LED modules) attached. Which if that's the case, why does Audi bother with different part numbers for US vs EU for B8.5 5-door LED?

[jko415]

Go figure, the B8.5 5-door LED wiring is the same for US and EU, though as you've seen Audi had to find some way to complicate things with the changed connector on the inner modules.

But the coding is definitely not the same, assuming you're trying to implement the original factory coding of that configuration. EU has a turn element and a brake element. US uses both those elements as brake and turn.

For whatever coding you already have in place, it seems you would not notice any difference with either the US or EU part number (for B8.5 5-door LED modules) attached. Which if that's the case, why does Audi bother with different part numbers for US vs EU for B8.5 5-door LED?

Most likely for US DOT certifications.

[RSR8]

Does anyone know if it is possible to go from EU B8.5 FL Avant incandescent to EU B8.5 FL Avant LED as I’ve bought an adaptor from Kufatec and they are saying it is not suitable and they don’t supply such an item.
Many thanks

[Smac770]

It's possible to go from anything to anything (so long as you stick to the same body type so the lights physically fit), once you fix the wiring and coding.

You'll have to run a new wire to each of the four lamp modules, and a lot of moving wires around on the J393 plugs. Kufatec probably skipped the scenario since it requires new wiring, not just a plug on wiring adapter.

tail lights B8.5 Euro wagon incandescent to LED.jpg

[RSR8]

Wow, thanks for that!
Just had a quick look at the adaptors and they do have five pins per lamp module plug so that’s one thing, I’ll be able to make some use of it.
It’s pretty irrelevant but how come it’s so involved when compared to going pre FL avant incandescent to FL avant LED?
Thanks again!

[Smac770]

It doesn't seem to be any different. In fact, the J393 pins to lamp module pins is exactly the same for B8.0 vs B8.5 for the RoW wagon incandescent. So the conversion of either to B8.5 RoW wagon LED would be exactly the same process.

[RSR8]

Thanks for looking that up, I only assumed the B8.0 and B8.5 were different as Kufatec informed they only sell an adaptor for the B8.0 which I thought was strange seeing B8.0 and B8.5 incandescent light modules appear to look the same externally plus both have 4 pins

[Smac770]

I guess it shouldn't have been surprising. If we look, the Euro avant incandescent tail lamp part numbers are the same for B8.0 and B8.5:
outer - 8K9 945 095 left / 8K9 945 096 right
inner - 8K9 945 093 left / 8K9 945 094 right

[Smac770]

Dean,

So if we look at the chart above for the wagon with B8.5 Euro tails, we see a list of wiring for the incandescent and a list for the wiring of the LED. There's up to 20 wires involved at the lamp assemblies, 16 wires from the J393 and 4 ground wires. We're going to ignore the ground wires for now, as they are all in place; you might just have to move them to the correct pin on the plug.

The cell color is just a quick reference so I can see which wires are at which lamp module. Much faster than trying to look for all the LO (left outer) or RI (right inner) texts. For the incandescent list we have three red, three orange, three green, and three blue cells. For the LED list we have four red, four orange, four green, and four blue cells. So right off the bat, we know we have to run a new wire from the J393 to each of the four modules.

Once you have four wires in place from the J393 to each lamp module, it's just a matter of putting the right pins in the right hole in the plugs. Take the right outer (RO, blue cells). We already have two wires on the correct J393 pins, black/white and black/green. But we need the other two RO wires to be on T17o/8 and T17o/10. So take the gray/white wire from T17p/13 and put it into T17o/8 and then put your new wire that you ran to the right outer (gray if you're were trying to match factory colors) and put it into T17o/10. Now you have the four wires for the right outer at the correct J393 pins; you just need to put them in the correct order in the plug to the lamp assembly.

Doing that sequence, you can simply put in the factory coding as is and be done.

Should you have a problem trying to get the wires to move between the T17o and T17p plugs, it should be possible by stripped back some of the wrap. But it's also not critical to be on the factory J393 pin. Let's take that gray/white wire for the right outer. It's on T17p/13 factory incandescent. You want to move it to T17o/8 for factory LED. But say it's not going to happen. Leave it on T17p/13. But move it to pin 1 (RO/1) on the plug to the lamp assembly as expected. So when you go to put in the coding, the value for ch 200 (which is always for pin T17o/8), just put that on ch 208 instead (the ch for pin T17p/13). The necessary channel value will now get to the right outer pin 1 light element.

All that matters really with the wiring is that the channel value gets routed to the correct lighting element. The channels are hard coded to which J393 pin they control. The pins on the lamp assemblies are hard coded to which light element they operate. Between there, the wiring, it's whatever you need to do to get the right channel to the right light element.

[RSR8]

Thanks for taking the time to explain Smac770, really helpful, it all makes sense!
I’m I correct in thinking we’re wiring and coding the lights to the jj393 as if it was an LED equipped car?
Will my J393 accept the coding and extra 4 pins?
Thanks

[Smac770]

I've never had any issue with putting whatever appropriate coding on any of the 16 appropriate channels.

While the 16 channels are pretty well understood, there are a number of management channels which contain bitmaps of the 16 lighting channels. These are not so well documented, which is why I recommend getting the right wires on the right J393 pins so you can just use the factory coding that you'd find on a LED equipped car. Just put the wires where they would have been, and put the channel values to what they would have been, just seems a lot more reliable approach than hoping to figure out which bits you do and do not need to flip if you start moving things around.

[RSR8]

Excellent, in theory, can’t go wrong if you’re using factory wiring and coding.
The four extra cables that need running, two to T17p and two to T32c, don’t suppose you happen to know the part numbers of the terminals required to connect to those plugs do you?

[Smac770]

Unfortunately, not offhand. That's one thing Audi really sucks at. They can document the plugs well, but not the wire terminals necessary for each plug. I'm sure it's out there to be found somewhere.

[RSR8]

Unfortunately, not offhand. That's one thing Audi really sucks at. They can document the plugs well, but not the wire terminals necessary for each plug. I'm sure it's out there to be found somewhere.

Ok, no problems, I’ve got the part numbers off the plugs on tJ393 so that might (or not) help them at the dealership find the correct terminals or repair wires.

Beige 17 pin 4F0 972 483 A
Black 17 pin 4FO 972 483
Grey 32 pin 1J0 972 977G
Black 32 pin 1J0 972 977

[Smac770]

The A and G versions are just different colors of the plug.

This is where I normally would go to eBay or such and look for used plugs with the wires still in. For the 17-pin plug, such as this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/174310442137
You can see in the pic it has 7 of the smaller contacts present. For less than $10 delivered (though that's here; I'm sure there's similar for UK eBay).
Or a little more for more and longer wires: https://www.ebay.com/itm/174623621018

Each repair wire from the dealership probably will cost more than that whole used listing.

https://www.a4-freunde.com/showwiki....s+dazu+gehoert
They are probably the MCON 1.2 or MCP 1.5.

[RSR8]

Thanks for the above, I’ll probably just buy used plugs then.
I know it’s obvious which plugs are 17 pin and 32 pin and I’ll work out which is T17o and T17p by what wires currently populate them but T32c T32d may prove more difficult to identify as there aren’t any wires going to those from the incandescent light modules, do you know which is grey and which one black?
Thanks

[RSR8]

Found the info required:


195F165E-CDE9-4C88-8D94-29D386806527.jpg

[darren.kellum]

Just wondered today if there's a way to make the strip tail light any brighter while on DRL mode. Mine are barely visible in the day. I passed a b8.5 today that I'm sure had them brighter than mine as stock. Imagine it's a case of changing the adaptation on 207-210?

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[darren.kellum]

Answered my own question today. Found these adaptation coding lists from rlarsen on the Ross tech forums
https://forums.ross-tech.com/index.p...37/post-197823

Worked out that my tail side lights Ch/Lh are on channels 195, 196, 197 and 198.

So I updated my codes with the codes he had for side lights on 209, 210, 207 and 208.

195 - 7811 to 51202
196 - 7843 to 51234
197 - 5124 to 51201
198 - 5156 to 51233

Nice and bright now
Photo of inner/outer with inner set to brighter setting. I'll see how I like it for a while and can always revert back.


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[theycallmesike]

instead of repinning wires and everything, does something like this work now? just update with coding? https://www.kufatec.com/en/audi/a4/a...number=38983-2

[Steptronic]

Darren, fire me a copy of that too if you don't mind. Will add it to my XLS. The complete 181 through 214 if you can.

Dolphik,
There are four details to the tail lights, B8.0 vs B8.5, US vs non-US, 4-door (sedan) vs 5-door (avant/allroad), and incandescent vs LED. So only if all four specifics are the same should information such as part numbers and wiring and coding match.

As a retrofit situation, the question becomes how exact to the target configuration can you become. If you can make the parts and wiring the same as if it had come from the factory, then you simply need a copy of the coding from such a factory configuration and it should fit right in. It's when you can't quite make the physical exactly as it would have been that then you have to figure out how to hack the coding to make things work well enough.

As to the J393 channel to J393 pin mapping, for the tail lights, that was just a matter of experimenting hands on. The wiring diagram from erwin already laid out which pins went to which bulbs, and there are threads on the Internet with the channel coding break down (mostly), so just a matter of matching up the functions coded to the bulbs connected. For the rest, just a matter of rewiring and recoding until each channel was tested for which pin it would operate.

Attachment 210156

So looking over the before and after, you'll:
move the wire from T17p/13 to T17o/8
move the wire from T32c/31 to T17o/9
move the wire from T17o/12 to T17p/9
move the wire from T32c/30 to T17p/10
add a new wire from T17o/12 to the outer left lamp
add a new wire from T17p/13 to the outer right lamp
(it's your car, suggest you double check my work)

Then put the right wires on the right pins at the plugs to the lamps and just copy over the coding values from a factory B8.0 Euro wagon with LEDs.

Hello Smac, i think you can help me, as you said that you done this retrofit. My situation is i have 2011 a4 b8 avant us version with incandescent tail lights, and want to retrofit b8.0 euro led tail lights, but i saw previously that you mentioned is some bcm2 won't support led tail lights on avants, my bcm2 has pr code 5D2 Carrier frequency for radio remote control: Carrier frequency 315 MHz. Part No SW: 8K0 907 064 CH Did my bcm2 supports led tail lights?

[nofx1981]

Hey guys, I have a 2009 A4 avant with incandescent tails. Outers are cracked and looking to replace with LED. Can I replace just replace the outers with LED version, or I have to do outer and inner together?

Thanks!

[Smac770]

As you see, all the coding is per channel, so you can code the stuff to match whatever you mount on the car.

[nofx1981]

As you see, all the coding is per channel, so you can code the stuff to match whatever you mount on the car.

OK great, thanks for the reply. And what about the wiring? Does the wiring diagram on pg 1 apply for euro pre-facelift LED's? Same connector p/n?

[Smac770]

There's plug discussion around post 200.

[Wimbledon]

instead of repinning wires and everything, does something like this work now? just update with coding? https://www.kufatec.com/en/audi/a4/a...number=38983-2

Quoting this for visibility--is this Kufatec adapter all we need these days?

[darren.kellum]

Quoting this for visibility--is this Kufatec adapter all we need these days?

Adapters like these do work fine. These ones are led to facelift led conversion. I think you have halogen originals? So you would be halogen to facelift LED if you want the stripe look led that the facelift has.
That requires more wiring to the module and some extra wires and coding.

For example this kit
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403772619...mis&media=COPY

This is probably EU to EU setup so if you need US then maybe ask them if they do


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[Wimbledon]

Adapters like these do work fine. These ones are led to facelift led conversion. I think you have halogen originals? So you would be halogen to facelift LED if you want the stripe look led that the facelift has.
That requires more wiring to the module and some extra wires and coding.

For example this kit
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403772619...mis&media=COPY

This is probably EU to EU setup so if you need US then maybe ask them if they do


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Thanks for the reply. It appears Kufatec sells an easy kit that has what is needed for Standard US to Facelift EU:

https://www.kufatec.com/de/audi/a4/a...number=38908-2



Scope of delivery:

cableset
LED rear lights 2 x outside
LED rear lights 2 x inside
coding dongle

Selectable options:

LED > on > LED facelift
Default > on > LED facelift
Standard US > on > LED facelift EU

Product information "Complete set of LED rear lights for Audi A4, S4 Avant Facelift"
Specific set for retrofitting Audi A4 Avant LED facelift rear lights (from model year 2013) in Audi A4 8K Avant models
Only for vehicles up to model year 2012 (not for 38908-1)

It looks like an installation PDF is included as well.

[Wimbledon]

Anyone have the current part numbers for the Euro facelift LED outers and inners?

[darren.kellum]

Anyone have the current part numbers for the Euro facelift LED outers and inners?

Believe it is these
8K9 945 096 D
8K9 945 095 D
8K9 945 094 E
8K9 945 093 E

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