Avant Facelift LED Taillight howto

[Smac770]

Ok, so you've already manipulated the factory coding extensively.
I saw the row of LED dots between the reverse lamp and the bottom LED bar in another pic; I assume there's another wire on the outer module that you just aren't using?

So the pic is correct, showing the current wiring, current lamps, and the factory coding. Obviously, the factory coding doesn't implement the functions appropriate for how the lamps are now connected. You've modified the coding to correct that, but your coding is not 100% effective.

203/204 and 205/206 look fine. 209/210 look fine; the blinker is working fine?

195/196 looks fine if the selected voltage bits are making the correct brightness.

197/198 has problems though. 197/198 should be a tail code, same as 195/196. Instead you've coded them as brake lights. That's why they come on with the brakes. So make them 14849/14881 also.

207/208, if they work fine, great. But I am curious why you set the MSB of the config byte (ie, +128). I would have expected values like I previously mentioned, 5 and 37. Not that it's not ok to have it set. I'm wondering why you set it and if you know what it implements. If we look at a B8.5 Euro wagon with LED, there is a brake only lamp on the inner and outer assemblies. The outer coding does not have that bit set; the inner coding does. The inner brake lamp is the only one with that bit set. Curious what it implies.

[Redporsche]

There are no unused wires on any plug. That row of leds above the bar on the outer assembly is the outer brake light. My turn signals work fine. I will try changing the codes for 197/198 and see how it works. I can also try to change 207/208 and see what that does.

[Smac770]

How does that inner row of red LED dots on the outer assembly get activated?
What it gets used for is up to programming; brake light would seem logical. But if you don't have an input line for a brake signal, ... Maybe it's like trailers, where you give it a combined brake/turn signal and it uses a converter to separate the two to drive separate turn and brake lights? I'm guessing the things came with nothing in the way of instructions or at least design basis?

[Smac770]

Alright guys, maybe some of you can lend a hand. I don't have an Avant but a 2012 B8 S4 saloon so things may be very different...

I'm in the process of converting to a B8.5 rear end, if it's even possible. Everything is US-spec. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the wiring. My factory LED lamps have a 4 wire outer and 4 wire inner setup.

Loukou,

The wires are just wires. You need three on each inner and four on each outer for the B8.5 US 4-door LED modules. You only have three on each outer since that's all a B8.0 US 4-door LED has factory. So you're running a pair of wires then, one to the left outer and one to the right outer. Put the left wire on T17o pin 9 and the right wire on T17p pin 10. This will make them channels 201 and 202.

So if it were not for the left reverse wire being joined to the auto-dimming rearview mirror, you would be done. Just work out the plugs and code the channels. But back to that left reverse issue. You have one of three scenarios:

A, you find where the wire from the mirror splices into the original left reverse wire. You disconnect it from the original left reverse wire and you splice it into whichever wire you will use for the new left reverse wire (ie, one of those to the left outer, maybe that new wire you ran). Then you use the original left reverse wire as just one of the three left inner wires you need. So you use the new wires to the outers as the reverse, and you'll code the reverse on 201 and 202.

B, you do not find where the wire from the mirror splices into the original left reverse wire. So. You disconnect the original wire on T17p/14 from the T17 plug. You splice that wire to the new wire you ran to the outer left. You run a new wire to the inner left and attach it to T17p/14. Same as A, you run the new outer wires to the reverse and code reverse on 201/202.

C, you say screw the mirror and disconnect the wire at the mirror. Who really cares about what the rear view mirror is doing at night when you are reversing anyway. Either your head is looking out the rear window or you're looking at the backup camera image. Then the original reverse wire is just another wire, with a really long stray attachment. Here you can use the new outer wires for whatever.

[Redporsche]

Ok, changed the codes on 197-198 & 207-208.
197-198 fixed the outer parking lights. They work as they should. On with the switch and not the brakes. But, the outer brake lights do not work now.
207-208 increased the brightness of the lights. Works fine.
So now I need to figure out how to turn on the outer brake lights without changing the outer parking lights.

[Smac770]

Curious. So you find the brake lights are on the inner assemblies appear brighter with the coding 5 and 37 than with the coding 133 and 165. I wonder if there's a reason for Audi to want the outer brake lights to be brighter than the inner brake lights, if the car them. And why this stray bit for that tweaking. For example, the "is fog light" bit is really "turn this light off if I open the rear lid" bit, but only the fog light gets that bit assigned.

So your third-party design is using the same input wire to drive both the red LED bar and the red LED dots? If there are four working light elements and only three wires, you have to validate which wires activate which elements. Go get one of those 12v garage door opener remote control batteries and connect it to the ground and each control wire one by one and find out what actually activates what (on the outer assembly, we seem to have the inner assembly down).

https://www.amazon.com/Duracell-Alka.../dp/B0094BE64W
Never realized these things were 12v; just thought they were really short AAAs.

[Redporsche]

Yes, same wire for the outer led bar and the leds for the outer brake light.

[Redporsche]

I looked at 207-208 again and there is no difference in brightness with 5-37 or 133-165.

[Smac770]

Ok, so it's still an unknown what that bit is about when set with inner brake only coding.

On the outer assembly issue, so same wire for both light sets. Well, that's not particularly useful. I wonder why they would have done such a thing. Does it appear like the wires for the two panels are joined on the outside, or on the inside (ie, forget about trying to separate them)? Had it been the turn LED dots and brake LED dots, that would have made more sense, and a common splitter could have been used to send the right signal to both dot sets.

But tail and brake? Tail is going to set a particular voltage to the wire, as set by the bits in the voltage byte. Brake application is going to send full voltage. Unless the unit has a splitter that sends the low voltage to the bar and sends that same voltage limit to the bar while passing the full voltage to the dots, both dots and bar are going to come on with tail and go bright with brake.

On the channels going to the outer bar+red dots, add 2 to the value. That will add braking to the current tail+CH/LH function. See what happens.

[Redporsche]

When I add +2 to 197-198 the parking lights come on with the brake light, but, the taillights still work with the switch.

[Smac770]

Right, as it should. That new value is tail+CH/LH+brake. The only "problem" being is the LED bar and the LED dots (red) are both going to be on with the position lights on and going to go bright with the brake applied. The inner assembly will not entirely match, where the bar is on with the position lights and the dots (red) go bright with the brake. But with no means to feed the outer bar and red dots separately, it's what you're stuck with.

[loukou]

Loukou,

The wires are just wires. You need three on each inner and four on each outer for the B8.5 US 4-door LED modules. You only have three on each outer since that's all a B8.0 US 4-door LED has factory. So you're running a pair of wires then, one to the left outer and one to the right outer. Put the left wire on T17o pin 9 and the right wire on T17p pin 10. This will make them channels 201 and 202.

So if it were not for the left reverse wire being joined to the auto-dimming rearview mirror, you would be done. Just work out the plugs and code the channels. But back to that left reverse issue. You have one of three scenarios:

A, you find where the wire from the mirror splices into the original left reverse wire. You disconnect it from the original left reverse wire and you splice it into whichever wire you will use for the new left reverse wire (ie, one of those to the left outer, maybe that new wire you ran). Then you use the original left reverse wire as just one of the three left inner wires you need. So you use the new wires to the outers as the reverse, and you'll code the reverse on 201 and 202.

B, you do not find where the wire from the mirror splices into the original left reverse wire. So. You disconnect the original wire on T17p/14 from the T17 plug. You splice that wire to the new wire you ran to the outer left. You run a new wire to the inner left and attach it to T17p/14. Same as A, you run the new outer wires to the reverse and code reverse on 201/202.

C, you say screw the mirror and disconnect the wire at the mirror. Who really cares about what the rear view mirror is doing at night when you are reversing anyway. Either your head is looking out the rear window or you're looking at the backup camera image. Then the original reverse wire is just another wire, with a really long stray attachment. Here you can use the new outer wires for whatever.

Thanks for your reply and insight. I assume the "wires are just wires" because they can be coded to perform different functions?

I'm currently doing the wiring on the passenger inner lamp. I connected the ground and rear fog wires on my factory harness to their counterparts on the B8.5 connectors since that seemed to be the obvious thing to do. I have the BLK/GRN wire (right brake/turn signal bulb 2) on the B8.5 connector left to attach and the original reverse wire remaining on my original harness. I assume it's just a matter of connecting these remaining wires and coding the channels properly?

[Smac770]

Well, the wires can't be coded, but the channel in the J393 that is assigned to the pin to which the wire is attached can be configured to operate as desired.

Take the right inner module:

US B8.0 sedan LED:

ch 204 -> T17o/11 -> gray/white -> pin 2 -> L47 fog lamp
ch 196 -> T17o/10 -> gray -> pin 3 -> M59 brake/tail 2 lamp
ch 206-> T17o/1 -> black/white -> pin 4 -> M17 reverse lamp
ground, luggage compartment, right -> brown -> pin 5

The US B8.5 sedan LED module is:

ground -> pin 1
pin 2 -> M85 brake/turn 2 lamp
pin 3 -> M70 brake/turn/tail lamp
pin 4 -> L47 fog lamp

So you'll dismount the existing plug on the harness and move the wires to their proper places on the new plug that matches the new lamp module. brown will go on 1, gray/white will go on 4, both gray and black/white will have to have their channels recoded so it doesn't matter which you put on 2 and 3, so long as you record it so you know which channel needs to be coded with which function.

The one complication is as I've already mentioned, that left reverse wire, which is additionally connected to the auto-dimming rearview mirror.

If you haven't monkeyed with the coding on your channels yet, pull the values for 181 through 214 (you have to enter the security access code to see them) and post them here or drop them in a PM (this being the avant thread).

[Smac770]

Loukou,

Since there's not a B8.0 LED to B8.5 LED sedan conversion thread that I could find, just going to post this question here since we're already here.

Looking at the B8.5 lamps, I'm not sure I understand where the fog light is. What I can find on youtube seems to imply it's the lower inner set of brake LED dots on the inner assembly. Not the white space below the brake rows.

Audi A4 B8 US 4-door LED tail lights.jpg

[loukou]

Smac770,

Correct. The rear fogs appear on the lower brake LED's on the inner lamps, closest to the middle of the trunklid. See the pink box in the attached photo. I'm not sure what the white portion of the lamp is for to be honest - it doesn't seem like they actually do anything other than make it aesthetically pleasing.

[Redporsche]

Ok, with the current coding I have the parking lights working correctly with the switch but the outer parking lights also come on with the brake lights. They dont seem to be brighter when the brake is applied. So what I did was change the long coding to turn on the rear light bars as drl. So now they are on at all times. So when the brakes are applied it works as it should. I would like to make the parking lights brighter if possible. I have tinted lenses and they are difficult to see in the daylight.

[dapeople]

anyone know how much time it takes to do the install?

[Redporsche]

Which part of the instal? I have been working on my coding for a couple weeks. I put the lights in in 20 minutes , lol.

[Smac770]

The channel value is 16-bits, an 8-bit voltage byte and an 8-bit config byte (speculation). The variable voltage applies to the tail function, thus why you see 00000000 for the first 8 bits on everything that doesn't have a tail function configured.

The incandescent tail voltage bits on my car are 0011 1010 or 0011 0100. B8.5 sample seems to use 0011 0000 or 0010 1100. The LEDs, such as the side markers, are 1100 1000. The oddity is the B8.0 sedan LED that seems to use just 0001 0100.

Red, no idea what you've defined in the config byte at this point, but your voltage byte is probably still the same as mine. So if you wanted to bump it up, set that upper byte to 1100 1000 and see how it goes. If it's just basic tail+CH/LH (config byte 0000 0001), that would be 51201 left, 51233 right.

[dapeople]

20 mins with the wiring?

[Redporsche]

Yes, my taillights only needed a plug change and they plugged in. Pretty simple. Get adapters and it's even easier.

[dapeople]

Yes, my taillights only needed a plug change and they plugged in. Pretty simple. Get adapters and it's even easier.

thanks, it will be my first time doing an install like this so i wanted to get a feel for what type of time frame and difficulty level people have experienced.

[darren.kellum]

Hi guys, been reading this thread top to bottom and looking to work out what is required for Euro Avant B8 "LED" to B8.5 Facelift LEDs.

Clearly some coding to do but on the wiring is it just the signal/indicator wire from outer side that needs carrying over to the inner ones or other wiring too?

Then does anyone have coding - Pre FL "LED" to FL LED?

Thanks

[dolphik]

So you are B8.0 (not B8.5), US (not Euro), avant (not sedan), and originally incandescent (not originally LED)? Because all four specifics are required to have any idea what your wiring or coding is. And your factory config, same as mine, would have only three wires to each of the four lamp assemblies. So you either added a wire of your own, or a whole new set of wires, or left something unconnected.

When you say you switched some pins, you mean on the plugs to the J393? Or on the plugs to the tail lamps?

What do you have?
B8.0 Euro wagon LED - is 4 wire outer, 3 wire inner, so not your lamps
B8.0 US wagon LED - doesn't exist
B8.5 Euro wagon LED - is 4 wire outer, 4 wire inner, so maybe your lamps
B8.5 US wagon LED - is 4 wire outer, 4 wire inner, so maybe your lamps

In the end, the concept is simple. Each of the eligible pins on the J393 for rear lamp purposes has an associated channel. However you get bulb X on the rear of the car to J393 pin Y, you put the necessary coding for bulb X on the channel associated with pin Y.

ch 195 - T17p pin 11
ch 196 - T17o pin 10
ch 197 - T17p pin 6
ch 198 - T17p pin 12
ch 199 - T17p pin 9
ch 200 - T17o pin 8
ch 201 - T17o pin 9
ch 202 - T17p pin 10
ch 203 - T17p pin 5
ch 204 - T17o pin 11
ch 205 - T17p pin 14*
ch 206 - T17o pin 1
ch 207 - T17o pin 12
ch 208 - T17p pin 13
ch 209 - T32c pin 31
ch 210 - T32c pin 30
ch 211 - T32c pin 14
ch 212 - T32d pin 18

Don't mess with 211 or 212 (plate lights and high brake lamp). The * on T17p/14 is because that's the wire in the factory harness to which the auto-dimming rear view mirror is attached. So if you move left reverse to another wire other than that wire on the factory harness, you'll have to address the no longer correctly connected mirror situation.

Hello,

I'm newbie here.
I own A4 B8 2011 Avant (model 2012, manufactured 11/11) from US.
Planning to replace US bulb tail lamps to Euro pre-facelift LED's.
I already got them from Poland and they have connectors (outer 5 pin and inner 8 (used only 4 pins)

I was searching different forums for information recoding bulbs to LED's and found that coding for almost same cars are not always identical.

@Smac770, just curios, where such mapping between channel and block J393 (and probably others) can be found ? And then correspondingly the coding somehow should be calculated, i don't believe it can be done always in "blind" way.

Also i see that my pre-facelift LED lamps (opened it and just seen wiring for bulbs that still present in it(ie brake/taillamp)) are not match the wiring that i see in ELSA for 2008 year car model.

[darren.kellum]

Just sent you a PM with my Euro pre-facelift LED channel codes and pin positions which may be of help.

[Smac770]

Darren, fire me a copy of that too if you don't mind. Will add it to my XLS. The complete 181 through 214 if you can.

Dolphik,
There are four details to the tail lights, B8.0 vs B8.5, US vs non-US, 4-door (sedan) vs 5-door (avant/allroad), and incandescent vs LED. So only if all four specifics are the same should information such as part numbers and wiring and coding match.

As a retrofit situation, the question becomes how exact to the target configuration can you become. If you can make the parts and wiring the same as if it had come from the factory, then you simply need a copy of the coding from such a factory configuration and it should fit right in. It's when you can't quite make the physical exactly as it would have been that then you have to figure out how to hack the coding to make things work well enough.

As to the J393 channel to J393 pin mapping, for the tail lights, that was just a matter of experimenting hands on. The wiring diagram from erwin already laid out which pins went to which bulbs, and there are threads on the Internet with the channel coding break down (mostly), so just a matter of matching up the functions coded to the bulbs connected. For the rest, just a matter of rewiring and recoding until each channel was tested for which pin it would operate.

taillamp wiring B8.0 5-door US to Euro LED.jpg

So looking over the before and after, you'll:
move the wire from T17p/13 to T17o/8
move the wire from T32c/31 to T17o/9
move the wire from T17o/12 to T17p/9
move the wire from T32c/30 to T17p/10
add a new wire from T17o/12 to the outer left lamp
add a new wire from T17p/13 to the outer right lamp
(it's your car, suggest you double check my work)

Then put the right wires on the right pins at the plugs to the lamps and just copy over the coding values from a factory B8.0 Euro wagon with LEDs.

[darren.kellum]

I'll post here in case useful to others in future - so this is Euro Pre-facelift LED B8 s4 avant

181 - Reverse Light Warning - 65535
182 - 7
183 - 16335
184 - 7
185 - 65535
186 - 7
187 - 16383
188 - 1
189 - 4032
190 - 5
191 - 16383
192 - 3
193 - 6
194 - 7
195 - Signal left outer - 7811
196 - Signal right outer - 7843
197 - Brakes left outer - 5124
198 - Brakes right outer - 5156
199 - Signal left inner - 133
200 - Signal right inner - 165
201 - Brake left inner - 12
202 - Brake right inner - 44
203 - Fog left - 73
204 - Fog right - 105
205 - Reverse left - 13
206 - Reverse right - 45
207 - Left inner tail, ch/lh - 5
208 - Right inner tail, ch/lh - 37
209 - Left outer, park ch/lh - 0
210 - Right outer, park ch/lh - 0

211 - 51214
212 - 51215
213 - 14643
214 - 3

Pin positions on plugs
Left Outer
1 = Side + Head Lights (Grey Black)
2 = Brake + Head Lights (Black Blue)
3 = Reverse (Black Grey)
4 = Indicator (Black Red)
5 = Ground (Brown)

Right Outer
1 = Ground (Brown)
2 = Indicator (Black Purple)
3 = Reverse (Black White)
4 = Brake + Head Lights (Grey White)
5 = Side + Head Lights (Black Green)

Left Inner
1 = N/A
2 = Brake (Black & Green)
3 = N/A
4 = Fog (Grey Yellow)
5 = N/A
6 = Ground (Brown)
7 = N/A
8 = Brake and tail (Grey)

Right Inner
1 = N/A
2 = Brake (Grey White)
3 = N/A
4 = Fog (Grey Blue)
5 = N/A
6 = Ground (Brown)
7 = N/A
8 = Brake & tail (Grey)


I am converting to Facelift LED as we speak so will post the LED to FL LED upgrade for Euro once its all done.

[dolphik]

Smac770, you shed some light to thoughts :) thanks!
Am i correctly understand, that even different letters on the end of 46 block number (ie mine 8k0 907 064 CH) may also influence on different coding/pinout from block ?

Will check the wiring and coding in nearest days

[Smac770]

Darren, thanks. To clarify the functional description, the values decode to the following, 195-210:

tail + CH/LH + brake
tail + CH/LH + brake
tail + park + CH/LH + brake
tail + park + CH/LH + brake
brake
brake
turn
turn
fog
fog
reverse
reverse
brake
brake
n/c
n/c

Which generally matches what the wiring diagram says they should be (LO is left outer, RI is right inner, etc):

LI - M58 left brake/tail 2 - pin 8, gray
RI - M59 right brake/tail 2 - pin 8, gray
LO - M4 left tail - pin 1, black/gray
RO - M2 right tail - pin 5, black/green
LI - M86 left brake 2 - pin 2, black/green
RI - M87 right brake 2 - pin 2, gray/white
LO - M6 left turn - pin 4, black/red
RO - M8 right turn - pin 2, black/yellow
LI - L46 left fog - pin 4, gray/yellow
RI - L47 right fog - pin 4, gray/blue
LO - M16 left reverse - pin 3, black
RO - M17 right reverse - pin 3, black/white
LO - M9 left brake - pin 2, black/blue
RO - M10 right brake - pin 4, gray/white
n/c
n/c

We see the M2/M4 bulb terms do not match the 197/198 coded functions. Based on the wiring diagram, I would have expected values 5122 and 5154. But maybe Audi decided afterwards they needed more brake lighting. I don't have the tail lamps so can't comment which elements are controlled by which pins.

[Smac770]

Smac770, you shed some light to thoughts :) thanks!
Am i correctly understand, that even different letters on the end of 46 block number (ie mine 8k0 907 064 CH) may also influence on different coding/pinout from block ?

The three different J393 units are for different RF frequencies for things like the key fobs. 315MHz vs 433MHz vs 866MHz.

[darren.kellum]

So I finished my install and all works great. It was very easy going from Euro LED to Euro FL LED.

All I had to do was:
a) pop pins out of the outer plugs and swap them around to the new positions,
b) run a wire on each side from outer signal/indicator to inner,
c) bought new inner plugs from Aliexpress as they are different and wired the original pins to new positions (incl. new signal wires from outer)
d) change adaptation 181 to 0 to stop bulb warnings

done

I attach an instructions slide that I've made to help out.

[jko415]

Does the FL b8.5 US allroad led taillights wire up the same as the EU version onto a US b8 avant with oem halogens?

[darren.kellum]

I don't know for sure but I'd say you'd possibly need new wires from the comfort controller to light plugs and alter wiring to the plugs (or by adapters) plus updating your coding to led coding.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

[b8_squarebody_l]

I am currently wiring up B8.5 US Allroad tail lights to an S4 BCM (S4 swapped Avant), any help or inputs on coding and wiring for these would be greatly appreciated.

[ItsCAvalos]

Hey guys I need help. I have a NA 2009 Avant and just tried to install facelift EU tails. I used the Kufatec wiring harness only, no coding adapter. I've tried using every coding combination I've found, here and on Ross-Tech with no luck. I have no idea if its a wiring issue or coding. I should not I'm using OBDEleven and even tried their coding with no luck still. I was also dumb enough that I didn't save my original values.

195 - Signal left outer - (12){12}
196 - Signal right outer - (44){44}
197 - Brakes left outer - (5){14888}
198 - Brakes right outer - (37){14856}
199 - Channel -
200 - Signal right inner - (44){44}
201 - Brake left inner - (133){14849}
202 - Brake right inner - (165*){14881*}
203 - Fog left - 73
204 - Fog right - 105
205 - Reverse left - 13
206 - Reverse right - 45
207 - Left inner tail, ch/lh - (51201){14849}
208 - Right inner tail, ch/lh - (51233){14881}
209 - Left outer, park ch/lh - (51202){14856}
210 - Right outer, park ch/lh - (51234){14888}

This is what shows up in my OBD11 adaptations. Things to note, my 199 only says Channel and 202 hasn't accepted any code so far. I wrote out multiple graphs of combinations and none have worked. These two were the closest. I think (I already forgot which it was) the one in parenthesis was the closest. But the Brake Lights were acting as the lights, the taillights were acting as the blinkers, and the blinkers were acting as the brake lights. If that makes sense. I've tried the codes from #1 (and #104) and #57.

How do I find out if this is a wiring issue? Any help would be appreciated!

[Smac770]

So to summarize concisely:
B8.0 US 5-door incandescent to B8.5 EU 5-door LED?

A B8.5 EU 5-door LED 195-210 would be:

51202
51234
5
37
12
44
12
44
133
165
13
45
51201
51233
73
105

If you need something different, then the wiring harness did not implement the factory relation of J393 pins to tail lamp pins. At which point, it's anyone's guess what you're wiring relationship is.

My B8.0 US 5-door incandescent stock 195-210:

14849
14881
13320
13352
0
0
0
0
14849
14881
13
45
73
105
51202
51234

[ItsCAvalos]

Hmm I just tried it again and doesn’t work for me. Both the blinkers and taillights only turn on with the brake applied


Edit: I figured out the included wiring was incorrect

[Smac770]

The channels are hard coded to a specific pin on the J393. So 16 channels, up to 16 pins on the J393 used for rear tail lamp functions (up to 8 left and 8 right, the license plate lamps are ch 211 and the high brake lamp is 212, so those are not part of the up to 16).

If there's any question about the wiring, ie the mapping of the light elements to the channels, just go through 195 to 210 one by one configuring it as the left turn blinker (make sure no other channels have a left turn signal assignment) and see what element lights up each time. It's very direct and without complication. Then you know what light elements are wired to which channels and then code appropriately.

[ItsCAvalos]

I figured it out using post #1. The harness had the turn signals and brakes switched. Fixed it. The only problem I have now is the dash is hyper flashing but no bulb out warnings.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[jko415]

Would the US FL LED light from the Allroad wire up the same as the EU version on a B8 Avant?