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  1. #401
    Veteran Member Four Rings jran76's Avatar
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    Couldn't there be other issues beyond what the bypass valve will show? I mean that would really only indicate the tune is installed and doing what it is supposed to do in terms of boost management, but that's really it. It does not say anything about the overall health of the car.

    I would be more interested in the other values I mentioned to see how the car itself is working.
    -What is total timing?
    -How much is being pulled on WOT runs to redline?
    -What are IAT's and Air Mass?
    -What is the actual boost that is being produced?

    All of the above will determine how much power the car is actually putting out beyond the tune doing what it is supposed to.
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  2. #402
    Veteran Member Four Rings Hansel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    Sure, that's always possible. We'll need data logs to see!



    Hansel,

    I'm terribly sorry, but I'm not speaking to you like you're an idiot. I'm not sure how you could even gather that from what I've said. Can you PM me and point to the parts that made you feel this way? I assure you that's not the case, or I would not have spent so much time explaining and working with you, even after hours.



    Understood. I'm just laying out all the variables. No harm in doing so for you, and all the other readers.



    As I mentioned in the email, that was a miscommunication. Here's what was said:

    Engineering to one of our sales reps

    RFP isn’t opening…which is the only thing in that log.

    Which means the Engine isn’t achieving more boost than the ECU is requesting.


    I spoke to the sales rep and he told me "After I read this again. I think I misunderstood him. "

    The "isn't opening" and "isn't achieving more boost" was a little confusing. I was confused the first time I read that too, but as I showed you in the logs, the bypass valve is working exactly as it should. Under wide open throttle, it's staying completely shut. That means boost isn't bypassing the requested level, so it's not artificially opening in that instance. Could it be bypassing during a quarter mile pass once you get up in speed? Yes! That's possible, but we'd need to see a log of it to know for usre.



    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say "placebo" as well as a "why not?" to just make sure. Typically when we know something is right on our end, we'll just do that, and most times than not people will say everything is fine. Same thing goes with adaptation. Like I explained to you in the email, when we tune, it's literally flash an dyno and then reflash. There's no miles of adaptation going on. There is some adaptation that comes into play, but nothing massive like stock vs chipped. However, time and time again we have customers say "The car was slow, but after some miles, it was fast." So, "plecebo?" Don't know. Doesn't hurt to try.



    As I mentioned before, more data logs would help. I'd love to see intake air temperature. Perhaps it's getting too hot in the higher gears and you're bypassing boost. In that case, yes, you'd be down on power. Also, perhaps something else is going on. It could be any number of things. We need data.



    You should dyno in stock mode, and then dyno in chipped mode. That will show the difference. You NEED to log the car with vag-com, because otherwise, if you do have a problem, all it will show is you having a problem. That doesn't mean the software isn't communicating with the car, that statement doesn't even make sense, it will just mean either the software is limiting power for one reason or another, or hardware is causing some other problem.



    I'm sorry you feel this way, but I'm not talking to you like you're stupid. I'm laying out the information as best I can. I know the answer isn't what you wanted. I know you wanted a silver bullet "It's our problem, here's the fix" but that's just not the case. We don't know why it ran slower. We can only speculate. I think I did a good job of laying out the points as to why that may be, and I believe I did a good job of suggesting what to do next. None of this screams "Arin thinks you're stupid" It's actually quite far from it!

    Bottom line, I want to help, even though at this point I believe the less than expected results of the drag time and trap you produced has absolutely nothing to do with our product.



    As I've shown, from the tiny piece of data we were sent, the bypass valve is staying 100% shut during WOT acceleration.

    The valve % is % open. it's 0% open during the pull:

    The information that apr asked for was sent to them.

  3. #403
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jran76 View Post
    Couldn't there be other issues beyond what the bypass valve will show? I mean that would really only indicate the tune is installed and doing what it is supposed to do in terms of boost management, but that's really it. It does not say anything about the overall health of the car.
    Yes, absolutely correct. It's only showing one thing, which is that, wihtout a doubt, it's switching programs into a chipped mode designed for the pulley as boost is not bypassing.

    Next, as I indicated many posts back (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...74#post9903574), we'll want to look at more things to assess the overall health of the vehicle.

    Furthermore, since the test thus has been in a quarter mile, it would be more helpful to recreate the test in the same condition. Reason being, as I indicated before, if heat is causing the bypass valve to open, we'll probably never see it in a short sprint in one gear, but we most likely will running down the drag strip in 3rd or 4th.

    I would be more interested in the other values I mentioned to see how the car itself is working.
    -What is total timing?
    -How much is being pulled on WOT runs to redline?
    -What are IAT's and Air Mass?
    -What is the actual boost that is being produced?

    All of the above will determine how much power the car is actually putting out beyond the tune doing what it is supposed to.
    Agreed. Very good points!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hansel View Post
    The information that apr asked for was sent to them.
    Correct!

    The bypass valve was the first step to prove the software was installed.

    To prove something else is wrong, we'll need to look at more data.


    Just a quick question to the folks here. My post here (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post9909872), in my opinion, was informative and helpful. However Hansel has indicated he feels I was being condescending to him. Do others feel the same? I'm only looking to help, and I've reread what I've said a few times, but I'm having trouble finding how I would word it differently. I just want to make sure there isn't some glaring obvious issue on my end with communication. Like I said, I only want to help. I'm not looking to insult anyones intelligence, and I'm truly sorry if I have!
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  4. #404
    Veteran Member Four Rings d.p's Avatar
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    I could see how he could take it that way, telling him how to drive his car at the strip came across a little patronizing.

    Besides his problems don't sound like driver error, even with a shitty driver wouldn't you expect a faster trap?

  5. #405
    Established Member Two Rings Fast05stang's Avatar
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    I think you meant well, no doubt. And recreating exact conditions is actually the best thing you can do for ANY sort of experiment, not just cars. So I wouldn't knock you for that either.

    Maybe it was "hold the wheel straight"??! I can bet Hansel knew that step!

  6. #406
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d.p View Post
    I could see how he could take it that way, telling him how to drive his car at the strip came across a little patronizing.
    hank you. I'm not looking to put anyone down. Since I'm posting this on the forums, I want all readers, including those who haven't been to the drag strip, to know a few tips for getting off the line quickly. This IS an Audi S4 and they aren't exactly designed for drag racing, so I wouldn't expect everyone here to be completely accustomed to the process. I my self even have a lot to learn!

    Besides his problems don't sound like driver error, even with a shitty driver wouldn't you expect a faster trap?
    There was good discrepancy between 60 ft times. Since the car is not equipped with launch control, the launch technique is quite important. Was it brake torqued? Was the gas mashed off the line? I don't know these things because I wasn't there. Could that have something to do with it, or did some other big variable change such as wheels/tires/track prep, etc?

    As for the trap being different, this is why I'm bringing up datalogging the car for an entire pull. It's quite possible the car heat soaked while waiting to run at the drag strip. It's also quite possible it heat soaked down the track, thus bypassing boost before crossing the line, limiting power. Without more data, I can't possibly say what happened for sure.

    So far, here's what we've confirmed:

    • Hansel has the correct software
    • The software burned successfully
    • The program order is what he expects to see
    • Hansel send me a video showing he currently knows how to switch programs
    • The program switching routine confirms software is installed
    • In 93 octane mode, during a brief datalog to redline in a single gear, the bypass valve did not open, thus confirming when selecting 93 octane mode, it's requesting boost levels that are not being exceeded with his pulley setup while the boost bypass valve is shut.
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  7. #407
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast05stang View Post
    Maybe it was "hold the wheel straight"??!
    You have no idea how many times I yell that out while at the track! It's so important when going for record times.

    Quite literally everything I said is what I tell all of our own "light weight"* employees the first time they step up to the line to run one of our DSG/Tiptronic cars.

    *Light weight doesn't mean anything about skill or ability. We usually have the lightest guy in the car. Sometimes they are new to drag racing.
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  8. #408
    Veteran Member Four Rings BoostEasy's Avatar
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    Logging is key and logs have already been sent but I think what's missing is logs with evidence of (or lack of) performance- whether dyno, vbox or dragstrip.

    If one sees less than the significant increase in HP from a stock to stage 2 tune on a dyno etc, the logs should show exactly what's going on. Boost loss, large ignition drops, misfires, limps or throttle closures from low fuel pressure, etc.

    Not picking on anyone but the butt dyno can be pretty far off. I know mine certainly is.

    I wish Hansel the best in getting his car sorted- problems after spending $ on performance mods is definitely a downer!
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  9. #409
    Veteran Member Four Rings Hansel's Avatar
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    So after the logs were sent to apr and they responded back that the valve was open, how's it closed now? Also, your dealer was in the car when we logged it and he said the car is slow and doesn't feel flashed. Have you contacted the dealer yet?

  10. #410
    Veteran Member Four Rings Hansel's Avatar
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    At this point I'd rather have my older, faster stasis flash back on my car and a refund on this.

  11. #411
    Veteran Member Four Rings F40LM's Avatar
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    What a PITA. If I had to take off time during a workday to do 6 hours of logging I'd be really upset.
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  12. #412
    Veteran Member Four Rings Hansel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F40LM View Post
    What a PITA. If I had to take off time during a workday to do 6 hours of logging I'd be really upset.
    100%. APR has been paid. Only people who are out anything is myself and the shop owner who wasted his time too.

  13. #413
    Veteran Member Four Rings jran76's Avatar
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    Honestly, the logging shouldn't take more than an hour or so if you have a place to do it. I did 3 runs for 3 different logging groups in less than an hour last night (for about the 5th time). One group with all the basic logging information, another with knock on all cylinders, and then another with misfires. This captured more than what APR asked for. I am going back to the track tonight, and plan to log the same things....
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  14. #414
    Veteran Member Four Rings Hansel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jran76 View Post
    Honestly, the logging shouldn't take more than an hour or so if you have a place to do it. I did 3 runs for 3 different logging groups in less than an hour last night (for about the 5th time). One group with all the basic logging information, another with knock on all cylinders, and then another with misfires. This captured more than what APR asked for. I am going back to the track tonight, and plan to log the same things....
    I don't have the cable. I don't plan on buying one, I shouldn't have to buy one either. Every other of my cars that's tuned I've never had an issue and the ET are all within a few tenths.

    The shop that did the flash is 2 hours from my house. When we logged it we had to email to apr and wait for their response.

  15. #415
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansel View Post
    So after the logs were sent to apr and they responded back that the valve was open, how's it closed now? Also, your dealer was in the car when we logged it and he said the car is slow and doesn't feel flashed. Have you contacted the dealer yet?
    Hansel,

    Like I said before. This was a miscommunication on someone's part. Our engineers did not say the valve was open, but that's still a moot point. The valve is shut.

    I spoke with the person dealing with our dealer, and he was informed the car came to the APR dealer with an underboost code. I was unaware of this earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sales@APR
    Car initially came with an under boost code but it has been cleared but I still think a leak may be the culprit…
    Here's what engineering said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Engineering@APR

    RFP isn’t opening…which is the only thing in that log.

    Which means the Engine isn’t achieving more boost than the ECU is requesting. Which could be a lot of things.

    Hard to diagnose what the issue is.
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  16. #416
    Veteran Member Four Rings Hansel's Avatar
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    That car had no under boost codes. I was standing right next to him when he was checking all the codes.

  17. #417
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansel View Post
    That car had no under boost codes. I was standing right next to him when he was checking all the codes.
    Hansel,

    I'll take your word for it.

    Here's what we know:

    - You have software on your car.

    - Your bypass valve is not open.

    That's all we know.

    How can I help you?

    -Arin
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  18. #418
    Veteran Member Four Rings LINDW4LL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    How can I help you?

    -Arin
    Arin, there is clearly a problem with his car that did not exist with the Stasis tune. I understand these issues can be difficult to pinpoint, however.

    He already has said how you can help him.

    At this point I'd rather have my older, faster stasis flash back on my car and a refund on this.
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  19. #419
    Active Member Four Rings SwankPeRFection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    Just a quick question to the folks here. My post here (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post9909872), in my opinion, was informative and helpful. However Hansel has indicated he feels I was being condescending to him. Do others feel the same? I'm only looking to help, and I've reread what I've said a few times, but I'm having trouble finding how I would word it differently. I just want to make sure there isn't some glaring obvious issue on my end with communication. Like I said, I only want to help. I'm not looking to insult anyones intelligence, and I'm truly sorry if I have!
    It does come off as a little belittling or as if you're treating him like someone who doesn't know anything. i.e. like you're trying to place blame on his abilities or something else rather than your own product because it can't possibly be that based on everything else you say.

    Don't take it the wrong way, this is text, there's no tone, there's no facial expressions and it's impossible to tell intent from text alone. Hey, who would know this better than me? Lol. All I can say is that Yes, I read it a little that way too and can see where Hansel is coming from.

  20. #420
    Established Member Two Rings xphantomws6x's Avatar
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    I'd absolutely love to see a dyno graph and some logs of the car as it sits now ... then another after it is flashed back to stock.

    Bottom line, the man isn't happy (can't blame him). If it can't be fixed in a timely fashion, the car should be flashed back to stock and APR gives him a refund.
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  21. #421
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LINDW4LL View Post
    Arin, there is clearly a problem with his car that did not exist with the Stasis tune.
    I believe he's not happy.

    I don't have any data to say there's "clearly" a problem, more specifically one cuased by our software.

    He already has said how you can help him.

    At this point I'd rather have my older, faster stasis flash back on my car and a refund on this.
    I'm sorry, I can't help him with this. Stasis is apparently in a stasis.

    However, I can install 91 octane stage 1 software if he would like.

    I still believe pinpointing the issue would make the most sense.

    -Arin
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  22. #422
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    Yes, absolutely correct. It's only showing one thing, which is that, wihtout a doubt, it's switching programs into a chipped mode designed for the pulley as boost is not bypassing.
    How does this show without a doubt that it has the tune installed? If there was a boost leak and the engine couldn't get to the requested boost (even when stock) wouldn't the trace be the same tuned or not even with the pulley installed? How far under boost request does it have to be set a underboost CEL?

    I sympathize with Hansel - he just wants things to work and they don't seem to be. I've not seen enough data to say the tune is at fault, or if there is some component on the car that is limiting performance. I'll continue to follow to see how this turns out in case I tune and get something similar.

    Good luck...

  23. #423
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Is this serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    Hansel,

    I'll take your word for it.

    Here's what we know:

    - You have software on your car.

    - Your bypass valve is not open.

    That's all we know.

    How can I help you?

    -Arin

  24. #424
    Veteran Member Four Rings F40LM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection View Post
    It does come off as a little belittling or as if you're treating him like someone who doesn't know anything. i.e. like you're trying to place blame on his abilities or something else rather than your own product because it can't possibly be that based on everything else you say.

    Don't take it the wrong way, this is text, there's no tone, there's no facial expressions and it's impossible to tell intent from text alone. Hey, who would know this better than me? Lol. All I can say is that Yes, I read it a little that way too and can see where Hansel is coming from.
    Hansel isnt a first timer on the 1/4 either. He knows what he's doing. Seems like hansel has to first prove its the tune that's doing it for some real support.
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  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by LINDW4LL View Post
    Arin, there is clearly a problem with his car that did not exist with the Stasis tune. I understand these issues can be difficult to pinpoint, however.

    He already has said how you can help him.
    I don't think they're going to be able to put him back to his original Stasis tune. I'm just making an educated guess here.

  26. #426
    Veteran Member Four Rings LINDW4LL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection View Post
    I don't think they're going to be able to put him back to his original Stasis tune. I'm just making an educated guess here.
    I thought the dealers read/save the original ECU file to their server prior to flashing APR software. I may be incorrect.
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  27. #427
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    Isn't there a 30 day guarantee on flashes? I think Arin is being totally reasonable about helping get to the bottom of this. And if you don't want to buy/borrow a VCDS cable and work with them on sorting the car out, I'd just say return to your previous tune. Only issue then is does APR have your previous Stasis tune on file? Cause that's gonna be an issue if they only carry the stock file for your exact ECU build. Revo might be able to help out if indeed you had the Revo file.

    I personally feel like modding a car involves a lot from the customer in terms of making sure everything plays out. It could be an issue where you installed a boost gauge and now you have a vaccum leak from the manifold, who knows without logging. Other 2010's with APR software don't appear to be having this problem, so it has to be something wrong with the car, despite the fact that the car was faster with the stasis tune. Hell, maybe they damaged your SC when the shop installed your pulley, who knows...
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  28. #428
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B8_Jim View Post
    How does this show without a doubt that it has the tune installed?
    I know he has software installed because he ran though the program switching routine with me via a video. The CEL and EPC lights blink only when our software is installed and one cycles through programs.

    If there was a boost leak and the engine couldn't get to the requested boost (even when stock) wouldn't the trace be the same tuned or not even with the pulley installed?
    Good point! Stock boost levels are really low at redline. 5-7 PSI or so. Pretty excessively low.

    Sounds like we need more data logs!

    I sympathize with Hansel - he just wants things to work and they don't seem to be.
    I totally agree too! We just want to see him happy, just like all of our other customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyUK View Post
    Is this serious?
    Yes! Absolutely. Let's start over. Here's what we know. I've given a few suggestions how to go further, but let's push those off to the side for the moment.

    How can I help?

    Quote Originally Posted by LINDW4LL View Post
    I thought the dealers read/save the original ECU file to their server prior to flashing APR software. I may be incorrect.
    No, we don't do this.
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  29. #429
    Active Member Four Rings SwankPeRFection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F40LM View Post
    Hansel isnt a first timer on the 1/4 either. He knows what he's doing. Seems like hansel has to first prove its the tune that's doing it for some real support.
    I don't think it's the first time we've seen this either. That said, Arin and his engineers aren't jumping on a plant to go to Chicago to look into this and it seems the APR dealer shop he's at is clueless as to what to do next.

    No disrespect to any of the parties on this, but given this scenario, how much different would this have been if this was a self-flashed at home thing? I would wager; Not much different. All the time Arin states how important and beneficial it is for them to do these flashes at their dealer tuners because they are equipped to deal with such issues without a problem, yet here we are discussing an exact opposite result of this process.

  30. #430
    Veteran Member Three Rings DATZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
    I think Arin is being totally reasonable about helping get to the bottom of this. And if you don't want to buy/borrow a VCDS cable and work with them on sorting the car out, I'd just say return to your previous tune.
    I agree with you. I think Arin is being reasonable and trying to be helpful. If Hansel isn't willing to get APR the data they need (by buying a vagcom cable and logging), how can he expect APR to help him? It's like going to a doctor but refusing to tell him what your symptoms are - how can you expect a solution to your problem if no one knows what your problem is and you won't tell them? Is it a shitty situation for Hansel? Yes, but if he wants it resolved, he needs to get APR the data they need to diagnose it. That means spending a few bucks on a vagcom, or repeatedly driving 2 hours each way to his dealer so they can log it. I know which option I would choose.
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  31. #431
    Veteran Member Four Rings d.p's Avatar
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    Got to be someone local to him that has a vag-com cable he can borrow. Hell in all my years of Audi ownership I never bought one and could always find one to borrow.

  32. #432
    Established Member Two Rings
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    I am at a loss with words right now. This is not a cheap $500 tune.

    If I were the customer I would get the car on a dyno and demand a full refund if the engine does not achieve near the advertised power.


    Quote Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection View Post
    I don't think it's the first time we've seen this either. That said, Arin and his engineers aren't jumping on a plant to go to Chicago to look into this and it seems the APR dealer shop he's at is clueless as to what to do next.

    No disrespect to any of the parties on this, but given this scenario, how much different would this have been if this was a self-flashed at home thing? I would wager; Not much different. All the time Arin states how important and beneficial it is for them to do these flashes at their dealer tuners because they are equipped to deal with such issues without a problem, yet here we are discussing an exact opposite result of this process.

  33. #433
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Neil,

    Also, just so you're aware, we do have dealers closer to you. It looks like GRD is roughly 30 minutes from you.

    Also, as others have suggested, maybe someone in your area can help out with loaning you a vag-com. We have a lot of customers in the Chicago area.
    GoAPR.com | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram
    Phone: (800) 680-7921 Local Phone: +1 (334) 502-5181 Fax: +1 (334) 502-5180
    Address: APR LLC, 4800 US HWY 280 West, Opelika, AL 36801

  34. #434
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    If you are unsatisfied with the work then the first port of call is the dealer/company that carried out the work. Surely this is like being asked to diagnose a fault yourself after any type of tuning work?

    Quote Originally Posted by DATZ View Post
    I agree with you. I think Arin is being reasonable and trying to be helpful. If Hansel isn't willing to get APR the data they need (by buying a vagcom cable and logging), how can he expect APR to help him? It's like going to a doctor but refusing to tell him what your symptoms are - how can you expect a solution to your problem if no one knows what your problem is and you won't tell them? Is it a shitty situation for Hansel? Yes, but if he wants it resolved, he needs to get APR the data they need to diagnose it. That means spending a few bucks on a vagcom, or repeatedly driving 2 hours each way to his dealer so they can log it. I know which option I would choose.

  35. #435
    Veteran Member Four Rings d.p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    Neil,

    Also, just so you're aware, we do have dealers closer to you. It looks like GRD is roughly 30 minutes from you.

    Also, as others have suggested, maybe someone in your area can help out with loaning you a vag-com. We have a lot of customers in the Chicago area.
    Still might not be an answer to his problems, the shop he is going to might be treating him right where GRD might charge him for all this time.

  36. #436
    Veteran Member Three Rings DATZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyUK View Post
    If you are unsatisfied with the work then the first port of call is the dealer/company that carried out the work. Surely this is like being asked to diagnose a fault yourself after any type of tuning work?
    They're not asking him to diagnose it, they are asking him to provide the data needed so that THEY (APR) can diagnose it. How can they be expected to solve a problem if they don't even know what the problem is? They need data, which comes from logging.
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  37. #437
    Veteran Member Four Rings Hansel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    I believe he's not happy.

    I don't have any data to say there's "clearly" a problem, more specifically one cuased by our software.



    I'm sorry, I can't help him with this. Stasis is apparently in a stasis.

    However, I can install 91 octane stage 1 software if he would like.

    I still believe pinpointing the issue would make the most sense.

    -Arin

    And how do you suggest doing this? At the end of the day I bought the software & pulley cause I wanted them. I've had tunes on almost every single car I've owned and never had to deal with any of this non sense in my life.


    But I'll put it like this to you Arin. If you bought a house from me and you send me an email stating the doors didn't close right, and your realtor emailed me telling me the doors didn't close right. I wouldn't ask you If your sure you know how to close a door or open one. Same goes for this issue.

  38. #438
    Veteran Member Four Rings csullivan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyUK View Post
    I am at a loss with words right now. This is not a cheap $500 tune.

    If I were the customer I would get the car on a dyno and demand a full refund if the engine does not achieve near the advertised power.
    I think the point Arin's trying to make is that if it's not making advertised power, it's not the tune, something else is wrong with the car. Welcome to AZ though, good to see you're jumping in with both angry feet.

    Seems like there are only a couple options here.

    1.) Are you still in the 30 days? Get your money back, go get your old tune.

    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...d-and-Carry-On

    If it really is the tune, that would fix it and everyone's happy. In theory.

    2.) Find a local with a cable that can do some logs with you and continue to enjoy free troubleshooting from APR. If you were local, I'd happily help, and I'll bet there's someone local to you who'd be glad to do it.

    But simply saying "no, it should just work" isn't going to get you anywhere, as without further info no one knows what's wrong. For example: Maybe it's a fuel pump that's not quite up to the task, you're running lean and not making the power you should. Tune could be perfectly fine in that case, and a separate issue with unfortunate coincidental timing is what is actually causing your issue. who knows.

    Then again, there's always #1.

  39. #439
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyUK View Post
    If I were the customer I would get the car on a dyno and demand a full refund if the engine does not achieve near the advertised power.
    Andy,

    Just out of curiosity, hypothetically speaking would you demand and expect the same refund if there was actually something wrong with the car, like a massive boost leak? That's not to say there is, but if the car isn't making power, wouldn't you want to know why? Would you rather just assume the the software went bad, but worked for everyone else?

    -Arin
    GoAPR.com | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram
    Phone: (800) 680-7921 Local Phone: +1 (334) 502-5181 Fax: +1 (334) 502-5180
    Address: APR LLC, 4800 US HWY 280 West, Opelika, AL 36801

  40. #440
    Veteran Member Four Rings csullivan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansel View Post
    But I'll put it like this to you Arin. If you bought a house from me and you send me an email stating the doors didn't close right, and your realtor emailed me telling me the doors didn't close right. I wouldn't ask you If your sure you know how to close a door or open one. Same goes for this issue.
    No, but if you built the home then shipped it across the country, you might ask for pictures of the door first. And how frustrating would it be if Arin's response was "I don't have a camera, all the other doors I've bought just work."

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