OSIR cf spoiler installed

[GeoJoe]

West, how do you get so much track time in, isn't your lady a little pissed you spend so much time at the track with your other GF?

Credit to The Chive

[yungcotter]

Cracking your sunroof would probably make more downforce than this, But it does look good


Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk 2

[helix139]

You have to believe in things you can't see. If you don't believe in chassis flex when the car is parked on an uneven surface, you probably don't believe in high speed aero either.

Has nothing to do with believing in what you can't see. It has everything to do with realizing that a fluid does not flow uniformly around a non-uniform cross-section in the direction of travel. Just because something is tilted up on the body of the car doesn't mean it produces measurable and significant downward force on the car. It has to be in an area of uniform high velocity flow. Your spoiler is in an area of turbulent low velocity flow.

[shadycrew31]

Looks pretty terrible... I'd go for a duckbill molded truck but not a stick on catastrophe.

If you like it all good, keep on truckin.

[NAMco]

Lip looks good. Are you going to flow the carbon fiber scheme throughout the car? ( Front lip, rear lip, etc)

Is there any website or user that makes customs rear deck lids? Specifically in the "WALD" style? Like the 3 series or the Lexus IS style with the extra curve?

[westwest888]

Cracking your sunroof would probably make more downforce than this, But it does look good


Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk 2

This is pretty funny. It doesn't help that we have our driver and passenger side front windows open on track. Maybe I should install those scoops for smokers, so they can ash out the window when it's raining. Of course I'd want the scoops reversed, because downforce.

[westwest888]

Has nothing to do with believing in what you can't see. It has everything to do with realizing that a fluid does not flow uniformly around a non-uniform cross-section in the direction of travel. Just because something is tilted up on the body of the car doesn't mean it produces measurable and significant downward force on the car. It has to be in an area of uniform high velocity flow. Your spoiler is in an area of turbulent low velocity flow.

So why do BMW, Mercedes, Tesla and Audi put these on their cars? The S4 happens to not have one, and I fixed that. Is the CLK Black Series just a joke to you?

[ShusterS4]

Looks pretty nice well done

[QuattroLife]

You have to believe in things you can't see. If you don't believe in chassis flex when the car is parked on an uneven surface, you probably don't believe in high speed aero either.

Like God? WELL you can't prove that he's fake so he must be real.

Atheists: 0
God: 1

[westwest888]

Another spoiler pic:

[helix139]

So why do BMW, Mercedes, Tesla and Audi put these on their cars? The S4 happens to not have one, and I fixed that. Is the CLK Black Series just a joke to you?

Different cars = different body lines = different airflow. And yes, it's likely cosmetic on the CLK also. Car manufacturers have been known to do that. See Mustang, Ford.

[westwest888]

How much downforce does this make?

[helix139]

How much downforce does this make?

Just smh. Now you're just throwing shit at the wall and trying to find something that sticks. Westlogicᵀᴹ at it's finest.

[audistealth]

This is pretty funny. It doesn't help that we have our driver and passenger side front windows open on track. Maybe I should install those scoops for smokers, so they can ash out the window when it's raining. Of course I'd want the scoops reversed, because downforce.

You do know that windows down completely screws up your aero right? That lip spoiler won't fix it.

Why are you talking about your track prowess with those boat anchor peelers? Get some LW track wheels...

[westwest888]

You do know that windows down completely screws up your aero right? That lip spoiler won't fix it.

Why are you talking about your track prowess with those boat anchor peelers? Get some LW track wheels...

Strong wheels are better than lightweight wheels. YMMV.

[westwest888]

Just smh. Now you're just throwing shit at the wall and trying to find something that sticks. Westlogicᵀᴹ at it's finest.

I'm actually serious. Now that I have fixed the rear aero, I'm going to work on the front lip. STVBEK in CF looks like a good pickup.

[drob23]

I'm actually serious. Now that I have fixed the rear aero, I'm going to work on the front lip. STVBEK in CF looks like a good pickup.

Why don't you just contract TAG to do a GT3 body kit conversion? Or figure out what the AMG Petronis F1 team is doing, cause they are kicking serious ass. Maybe you could outfit your S4 with a DRS system.

[westwest888]

I'm feeling it. Should add +6 whp.

[dzasta]

I'm feeling it. Should add +6 whp.

do it. and tell us how much the 150.39lbs of downforce makes your car more stable at 130mph without decreasing your lap times.

[NWS4Guy]

Strong wheels are better than lightweight wheels. YMMV.

By the same logic, heavy wheels are better than lightweight ones? You can have strong AND light you know? And when it comes to strength, unless you are driving on a track with potholes, there is nothing to gain from a strong, NOT lightweight wheel. You will gain a lot from a lightweight wheel that is well made, but perhaps not as strong as a really heavy wheels, because it is unsprung, rolling mass. Every time you accelerate, that heavy wheel has to be spun to get you going, and the less mass you are having to spin, the faster the wheels will accelerate.

How much downforce does this make?

You have to have something actually invade the airflow to make downforce. The older TT video is great, because it shows that the lines of the rear of the car are very sloped and the trunk flows with the C pillar and the rest of the car - so the airflow will pretty much follow the metal, and deploying a small wing will help. The current gen TTRS, the true track inspired car, you will note, has a fixed, VERY tall wing by comparison - why? To get out into the airflow and do more than just look cute.

Take a look at the RS5, which has a deployable spoiler - it's not a ~1 inch wide lip that sticks up an additional what - 1.5 inches perhaps? It's about 3 inches wide, and deploys over 2 inches at the rear, where it can actually disrupt the airflow over the trunk



If it makes you feel better, great - no worries, but what you have is not doing anything appreciable, no matter the speed you are going, especially considering that you will only see 130MPH in straights, and will be breaking and well under 90 during any hard turns where the rear will get squirrely anyway - speeds well under where any lip spoiler will help you much, you would need a massive wing to assist at lower speeds unless you happened to be breaking into oncoming wind that helped airflow over the car.

As for front splitters, they need to be VERY large, and VERY low to the ground to accomplish much, what you are showing is extra weight, nothing else. The B8 S4 is already very noseheavy, you don't need more downforce there. In fact, the car doesn't really need any downforce being 4,000 lbs. Most people are trying to remove weight.



I just had a brilliant idea - you can leave the Lead-acid battery in your car, and not worry about a rear spoiler. It's very low, and from what you have said, low centered weight doesn't matter - it is adding a REAL 60lbs to the rear of the car ALL the time, not just when you are going over 100. I just saved you a ton of money!

Failing this, you can always buy a tow kit, trailer, and riding lawn mover, this seems to REALLY help with downforce and taking out those pesky 350z drivers.

[westwest888]

By the same logic, heavy wheels are better than lightweight ones? You can have strong AND light you know? And when it comes to strength, unless you are driving on a track with potholes, there is nothing to gain from a strong, NOT lightweight wheel. You will gain a lot from a lightweight wheel that is well made, but perhaps not as strong as a really heavy wheels, because it is unsprung, rolling mass. Every time you accelerate, that heavy wheel has to be spun to get you going, and the less mass you are having to spin, the faster the wheels will accelerate.

You're misguided if you're prioritizing speed over safety. All I know is I have rotors under those wheels burning at 1100 degrees F. There's apex curbing all over the track which I like to hit. There's a non zero chance I will go off track either onto uneven pavement, a storm drain, or other terrain (hard packed dirt or mud depending on the season). I don't need a cracked wheel just because I went off.

At any given time on track I might be asking the wheel and tire to carry up to 3000 pounds of force. In the course of doing that, it's possible for the wheel to flex like a baseball does into some oblate shape. You can roll on ovals all you want.

A strong and light set of wheels is $7000. A light and cheap set of wheels is $1500. A strong and inexpensive set of wheels is $2500. Most people on this board pick light and cheap - you wouldn't catch me out on track like that.

The bottom line is I'm not going on track with a wheel that has a static load rating under 750 kg. Most of the wheels posted on this forum are a regression from stock, meaning they have a lower load rating and dubious/nonexistent QA process.

[westwest888]

You have to have something actually invade the airflow to make downforce. The older TT video is great, because it shows that the lines of the rear of the car are very sloped and the trunk flows with the C pillar and the rest of the car - so the airflow will pretty much follow the metal, and deploying a small wing will help. The current gen TTRS, the true track inspired car, you will note, has a fixed, VERY tall wing by comparison - why? To get out into the airflow and do more than just look cute.

The TT is a very unstable design, aerodynamically. It would make for a great airplane shape because it creates so much lift. Do you notice the similarity to the photo below? A picture is worth 1000 posts of misunderstanding on Audizine. It's a sexy car that Audi GMBH thought would sell well and in 2000 they released it and it did. Unfortunately it also crashed all over the autobahn. Most folks, especially in the United States, didn't notice because they didn't exceed 100 MPH. The fixed wing on the TT-RS and the TT-S mitigates the lift problem.

A sedan is a much more aerodynamically stable design that a coupe which has little to no trunk surface. The trunk on any 3 series, A4 series, C class, ATS, etc., creates natural downforce which counters the lift, which would otherwise be unabated. The more you can counter the teardrop shape and create a wedge shape out of the trunk for air to flow over, the more stable the rear end will be.

The RS5 having active aero in the form of the world's smallest deployable wing does not invalidate deck lid spoilers as a class of aerodynamic enhancement. Nice try though.

[IanCH]

Can someone ban this idiot already? the more he posts the more idiotic this entire forum looks for letting him hang around, unlike our Bavarian counterparts.

[F40LM]

That spoiler looks like garbage my lord. The natural look of the trunk is sexy how it is. You just ruined it.

[Okan509]

dude, you were doing better on the forums.

But then you dig yourself into a hole. Why? You like the humiliation?

Advice: keep it simple, keep it less serious.

You may think that your lip adds downforce, it may in-fact do so. But making it such a big deal, or justifying the entire purchase on it? unnecessary.

You said you wanted a sleeper, you are certainly stepping away from that with lips in the front and rear..

[westwest888]

dude, you were doing better on the forums.

But then you dig yourself into a hole. Why? You like the humiliation?

Advice: keep it simple, keep it less serious.

You may think that your lip adds downforce, it may in-fact do so. But making it such a big deal, or justifying the entire purchase on it? unnecessary.

You said you wanted a sleeper, you are certainly stepping away from that with lips in the front and rear..

It is lonely at the top. Having the most aerodynamically stable S4 is a lonely road I walk alone.

The commenters are doing the lurkers a service by allowing the argument to expand. Every time you comment, I will dig deeper into the argument because I know I'm right. Track tested.

[SteveYem]

That spoiler looks like garbage my lord. The natural look of the trunk is sexy how it is. You just ruined it.

When I first read this, I thought you were addressing West as "my lord" like in medieval times. I laughed.

[S|Quattro|4]

Lol, just lol.

[NWS4Guy]

dude, you were doing better on the forums.

But then you dig yourself into a hole. Why? You like the humiliation?

Advice: keep it simple, keep it less serious.

You may think that your lip adds downforce, it may in-fact do so. But making it such a big deal, or justifying the entire purchase on it? unnecessary.

You said you wanted a sleeper, you are certainly stepping away from that with lips in the front and rear..

He hasn't been discovered yet for what he can accomplish on the forums yet over on planet-9.com but it's only a matter of time of time before he embarrasses himself there.

Daniel Bernoulli is likely rolling over in his grave. The speeds West or any weekend track bandit is seeing are not going to make the car fly up into the air off the road. If it were that much of a danger, do you honestly think the car would be ok to drive on public highways in Germany at the speeds West drives on the racetrack?

West, how about you take some measurements do some simple math and calculate the actual lift of your car at different speeds rather than guessing and calling it fact?

http://www.ehow.com/how_6594389_calc...ift-force.html

[westwest888]

It's like trying to prove that putting R-20 insulation in the walls of your house will keep it warm inside. I'm sitting in my warm house and IDGAF that you say my claim is dubious. If you drive 130 MPH and want the peace of mind of rear end stability, you should do what I did, exactly how I did it.

I really want to move on from this topic to more important things, but we can dwell on it for as long you'd like. There's nothing to refute here.

[dzasta]

It is lonely at the top. Having the most aerodynamically stable S4 is a lonely road I walk alone.

Every time you comment, I will dig deeper into the argument because I know I'm right. Track tested.

yummm, the gift that keeps on giving...

[NWS4Guy]

It's like trying to prove that putting R-20 insulation in the walls of your house will keep it warm inside. I'm sitting in my warm house and IDGAF that you say my claim is dubious. If you drive 130 MPH and want the peace of mind of rear end stability, you should do what I did, exactly how I did it.

I really want to move on from this topic to more important things, but we can dwell on it for as long you'd like. There's nothing to refute here.

Except for the fact that you can empirically measure the benefits of R-20 insulation. If someone does it exactly like you did - Puts on the cosmetic spoiler lip and believes it will work for no other reason that they want to - yes you are right, it will give them peace of mind, even if a false sense of security.

You still are ignoring the fact that when you are going 130 it's in a straight line where rear end stability doesn't matter, and that you are taking turns where rear end stability matters at half that speed where the insignificant lip you have will do nothing due to lack of enough airflow to produce notable downforce on anything that size.

[audistealth]

Strong wheels are better than lightweight wheels. YMMV.

You can achieve both, shop around a little. And it can be done under 2000 USD, barely.

Try to be a little patient and temper the buyers/confirmation bias. Some people really are trying to help you.

Aero bits on this car won't matter nearly as much as lightweight wheels/flywheel/rotors/calipers/hood, brake air ducts, and a race calibrated suspension geometry based on the track.

[s4buckeye]

Except for the fact that you can empirically measure the benefits of R-20 insulation. If someone does it exactly like you did - Puts on the cosmetic spoiler lip and believes it will work for no other reason that they want to - yes you are right, it will give them peace of mind, even if a false sense of security.

You still are ignoring the fact that when you are going 130 it's in a straight line where rear end stability doesn't matter, and that you are taking turns where rear end stability matters at half that speed where the insignificant lip you have will do nothing due to lack of enough airflow to produce notable downforce on anything that size.

wasting your time....

[sfore1991]

some cool pics and some German...

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163575

[squashman]

some cool pics and some German...

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163575

Nice pics. Funny how only the spoilers on risers up in clean air flow are actually effective at 'spoiling'. West's plastic POS lip spoiler is good only for making the rear end of his car look even more amateur.

[chrisbryan89]

West's biggest argument is "tack tested." West you do realize there are quite few other members here who track regularly right? And some of those people seem to disagree with you quite often. Do you honestly believe that you are correct in all your arguments while the rest of the community is constantly wrong? While I do notice quite a few members trolling you and acting immature, there are many that clearly negate your arguments and yet you always avoid those comments, or you post some nonsense that has no bearing on the conversation.

This trunk lip is clearly for aesthetics, yet you keep comparing it to stock RS5 and Tesla spoilers that are nowhere near the same thing as your "glue on" trunk lip. Quit comparing two vastly different products!! I do think it is cute that the same person who would say something like "I am the only person on audizine who cares about engineering" would put so much confidence in a product that is clearly designed for looks alone. Please point me to the osir literature that states this product is designed to create down force... or that any osir product is designed to enhance performance.

West, if you like the damn thing that is great, but stop trying to convince everybody you are getting 150 lbs of down force out of this, because anybody with a brain can do the research and see you are delusional. By the way, where did you even come up with those numbers? Just curious...

[The.Wizard]

This is the bumper from the GT3 RS 4.0. The guys who own mere GT3 RS (3.8) add the CF air scoop you see on the side of this bumper. Does it do something? Or are these middle class millionaires idiots? It's just a strip of plastic, right?



Follow up question: when you park your factory B8 in a steep driveway with an uneven ramp, does the chassis flex driving over that entrance? Or is steel so strong that nothing happens to the oblate shape of the safety cage?

It might help channel more air into the front for better cooling of rads and intercoolers especially if they've been upgraded to help support engine remapping.

[westwest888]

The Cayman GT4 seen testing (next to a 997 GT3 RS):

[ejohnson]

I'll just leave this here for all the naysayers - http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/20/au...-5-deaths.html



Notice anything similar between West's lip spoiler and that one?

It must be nice knowing that no matter what West says, if you disagree with him, the entire forum will back you up. Good stuff since it means you can know nothing about a topic that he might have actually thought about, and you can still call him the dumbass.