Possible to replace TB tensioner with just removing the upper TB cover?

[lookaught]

Long story short: TB tensioner is bad. My car is also 1600 miles away in storage. When I am back east I need to replace the tensioner before I drive it back to WYO.

Anyone know if this can be done without removing the whole front end? I guess I could put it into the service position to get a bit more clearance, but I'd prefer to not drain the coolant and take off the rad support, and don't want to pull off the crank pulley etc.

It looks based on my google image searching that the lower cover that's not removeable unless you pull the crank pully is *just* in the way of the lower bolt. But I recall that cover is metal so I could flex/bend it out of the way if needed.


Thoughts?

[seanj130]

Just put it in service mode, it will just be tight in there. No need to ever take off the front clip for a TB

Long story short: TB tensioner is bad. My car is also 1600 miles away in storage. When I am back east I need to replace the tensioner before I drive it back to WYO.

Anyone know if this can be done without removing the whole front end? I guess I could put it into the service position to get a bit more clearance, but I'd prefer to not drain the coolant and take off the rad support, and don't want to pull off the crank pulley etc.

It looks based on my google image searching that the lower cover that's not removeable unless you pull the crank pully is *just* in the way of the lower bolt. But I recall that cover is metal so I could flex/bend it out of the way if needed.


Thoughts?

[sa_seahawker]

No. You have to at least put the core support into the service position. The lower cover must come off in order to get the lower bolt out. That can only be done by removing the crank pulley. You can only adjust the timing tensioner gap with only the upper cover removed.

Just put it in service mode, it will just be tight in there. No need to ever take off the front clip for a TB

Use the two bumper bolts for this instead of one of the bumper shock bolts. This will give you an extra 2 inches of space which makes a huge difference in helping.

[lookaught]

Dammit.

It's been a while since I've seen my Audi. Can I put it in service position without disconnecting the rad hoses?

I guess I can deal with the crank pulley... last time it was rather fused on there and I needed a puller. The current belt only has 55,000 miles on it so I was planning to just pop off the tensioner and pop in a new one and not even mess with that eccentric roller. The current tensioner still works it just loses pressure when I let it sit for a night or two and the gap is still less than 10mm if I remember correctly, the belt is just floppy in the morning but tightens up once it cranks over.

Thanks for the replys. I'm in a time crunch to get this done and get on the road so I just want to know what to expect before I fly out there.


and yeah, I know there's no "need" to swing the front end off, but for those of us who want to be extra cautious and really have a good look, it sure does make it easier.

[VAGlover]

Dammit.

It's been a while since I've seen my Audi. Can I put it in service position without disconnecting the rad hoses?

I guess I can deal with the crank pulley... last time it was rather fused on there and I needed a puller. The current belt only has 55,000 miles on it so I was planning to just pop off the tensioner and pop in a new one and not even mess with that eccentric roller. The current tensioner still works it just loses pressure when I let it sit for a night or two and the gap is still less than 10mm if I remember correctly, the belt is just floppy in the morning but tightens up once it cranks over.

Thanks for the replys. I'm in a time crunch to get this done and get on the road so I just want to know what to expect before I fly out there.


and yeah, I know there's no "need" to swing the front end off, but for those of us who want to be extra cautious and really have a good look, it sure does make it easier.

Bro, at 55k i would def change the t belt while you're in there. Not worth having to take it apart again. I just did this service my first time ever yesterday. all u need to do is remove headlights and bumper, 8 bolts for the lock carrier and it pulls out maybe 4+ ish inches. Do a full service with anything on a 1.8. This means waterpump, belt tensioner and roller, accessory belt and tensioner. Thats just the basics lol. You could do front crank seal and a bunch of other fun stuff! Just read the diy, theres a couple of them if you type in b6 a4 timing belt on the gooog. Ones like happywrenching.com and the other is onaudizine. The happy wrenching one has all the tourque specs which you definitely need to respect! I bought the ecs ultimate belt kit, they are vin# specific. You will need couple gallons of distilled water and 2 liters i think? Of g12 SF coolant, SF is for silicate free. Good luck! I did it for around 200$ dollars and was really happy with myself when i turned the engine over for the first time when i was done. Definitely cross reference between those 2 articles and you'll be fine. The tensioner is actually quite an intelligent design.



Sent from my iPhone while steering, changing gears, smoking a cigarette and drinking a coffee. Maybe eating a breakfast sandwich too.

[imnuts]

Mileage is not the only factor to consider for belt replacement. That belt is now at least 9 years old if it is the original, and up to probably 14 years old. It is likely showing signs of age and IMO, you're on borrowed time not changing it (and doing a full TB service).

[lookaught]

Thanks, I've done a few TBs on 1.8t's before so I know what I'm in for. I have a full engine rebuild coming up at some point in the next year or two to put in forged pistons and rods to correct some compression loss, so I want to put off a new TB and accessories until then, and build it all at once.

I'm just trying to save as much time/energy/money as possible when I'm out east so i can see family and friends while I'm there and not be wrenching. I just need the car to make it 1,600 miles to my house in Wyoming. Plus I think 55k miles is pretty low for a failure, but I'll spin everything while i'm in there and make sure there's nothing rough.

FWIW I used an ECS kit when I did the TB on this car at 84,000, and that is the TB tensioner that's failing. I have no idea what the brand was. It's just an annoyance... oh well. I'll probably buy an NTN brand tensioner this time around.

[lookaught]

Mileage is not the only factor to consider for belt replacement. That belt is now at least 9 years old if it is the original, and up to probably 14 years old. It is likely showing signs of age and IMO, you're on borrowed time not changing it (and doing a full TB service).

It's not the original, I changed the TB and all the associated parts in 2008 at 84,000 just after I bought the car, and it's now at about 140k.

[Seerlah]

You say ECS, but what brand belt? There is a person in the B5 section who had his Continental belt snap prematurely. Had nothing to do with any tensioner or roller. He went with Gates after that (oh, he also had to replace the valves he bent, but he got out lucky with just having to do that versus hole in piston aka new engine). You should change your belt every 5 years or 70k tops. With you at the 9 year mark, you are overdue. Time also plays it's role on belt wear. Not saying anything will happen from here till when you do decide to change your belt, but you can;t say people did not warn you.

I have a B5 also, and was able to change my tensioner with the front end fully on. Probably the most PITA job I did on my car so far. If I can do it on my B5, I'm sure you can do it on your B6. But mind you, it won't be easy. And you have to be very careful you don't have the belt come off the crank or cam gear. If you do, you will basically be placing the car into service position regardless to fix that issue (you will be working blind otherwise because you can't see down there). And at that point, might as well replace the belt at the same time. Anyways...

Replaced my tensioner today. Sh*t was bad and I made a PSA regarding what saved me from having to do internal engine work from damage, with a bent valve at the minimum. Did it with the front end of the vehicle still fully intact. Was probably the toughest thing I have ever done on my vehicle, but got it done by the end of the day, went for a ride, and car is much stronger than it was previously (look at the tensioner in the vid, and you can just guess how many corrections the ECU had to make).

Next on the list:
-change spark plugs (small job)
-replace ignition coil harness (034MS repair kit on the way. figured just pay the money instead of getting yet another crappy full engine harness)
-get flex joint replaced (already picked up and will make an appointment tomorrow to have old one cut out and new one welded in)

This job was definitely a PIA and the toughest I have done. But now you know, the tensioner can most def be replaced with the front end fully on. Would I suggest you do it? Nope. Not after what I went through. But if you think you can do it, give it a shot (don't blame me if you drop a bolt or f*ck something up). What you need to do it first take the accessory belt off the accessory tensioner. Then unbolt the accessory tensioner (3 bolts). There is not room to fully pull the bolts out, but enough room to unthread them fully and pull the tensioner out with the bolts resting in the holes. After that, you need to take off the top part of the metal portion of the TB cover. It is held by 3 bolts (I did not place one back. it would have simply been too much of a hassle trying to get it back in. you'll see the pic of me loosening it. had a magnet extension right next to it on the final turns to grab the bolt.). After that is out the way, you can now take out the TB tensioner. Install in reverse.

Check out my hand trying to get to one of the TB cover bolts (one just mentioned above). I had no choice but to constantly rub really hard on one spot of the radiator support (auxiliary fan cage).



After a while, I was like f*ck this. Something's got to give. Can't do this sh*t for much longer. Hmmm...got it. Yeah, that's duct tape.



Yeah b*tch. Owned!!! hahaha



TB cover removed, now you have access to get to the tensioner bolts. Look at the hydraulic fluid on the tensioner. Thing was done for.



Old one out, new one in (with metal covers also placed back on)



Went for a drive (couple WOT runs) and she drives so much more better. More power and way better driveability. It is amazing how I was able to drive my car with the tensioner the way it was. Video below speaks volumes.

[sa_seahawker]

FWIW I used an ECS kit when I did the TB on this car at 84,000, and that is the TB tensioner that's failing. I have no idea what the brand was. It's just an annoyance... oh well. I'll probably buy an NTN brand tensioner this time around.

Make sure you get OEM parts for this one.

[lookaught]

Wow, that's a bad tensioner! Mine is not nearly that bad. Thanks for those pics and linking that post, looks like service position and pulling off the crank pulley is the way to go. I've spent too many hours messing about trying to do things on cars without removing parts to know that often times, it's better to just take things off.

I don't know what brand belt it was, I think a Contitech but thats just a guess. I'll look at the cost if they are like $20 I suppose I can throw on a new belt since the crank pulley has to come off anyway, it's easy to change. My warehouse is also one day shipping from ECS so if the water pump or rollers feel rough I can replace them, I just don't really want to right now to save costs. The parts are not at 9 years, they are less than 6. I know, not much difference, but like I said, it's all coming apart again later this year anyway.

What were the symptoms that led you to change the tensioner? I heard my engine making a damn racket and that prompted me to look at the belt. I also have mega issues with unstable low boost but I don't see how they can be related unless the loose belt is really somehow throwing off the timing... but who knows?

So, does anyone know if service position with the rad support forward requires disconnecting the rad hoses?

[lookaught]

Make sure you get OEM parts for this one.

Yeah I think I've learned my lesson with OE parts... not all are OEM equivalent. Some brands are excellent, others like URO... just garbage. Although I did have a OEM water pump fail at 35k miles on a 2.7T years ago, so any part can (obviously) still fail prematurely.

I've got to to the TB in my truck soon, I'll be going with OEM Toyota for those too.

[Seerlah]

You don't need to disconnect the radiator hoses for service position. Only when taking the front clip off. And you don't need to remove your crank pulley to get to the tensioner (not in service position, if not with the front end fully intact). You see mine still bolted onto the gear. I went to inspect my belt one day and noticed it loose. Figured the tensioner was problematic, but not that bad. It was totally gone.

[lookaught]

You say ECS, but what brand belt? There is a person in the B5 section who had his Continental belt snap prematurely. Had nothing to do with any tensioner or roller. He went with Gates after that (oh, he also had to replace the valves he bent, but he got out lucky with just having to do that versus hole in piston aka new engine). You should change your belt every 5 years or 70k tops. With you at the 9 year mark, you are overdue. Time also plays it's role on belt wear. Not saying anything will happen from here till when you do decide to change your belt, but you can;t say people did not warn you.

I have a B5 also, and was able to change my tensioner with the front end fully on. Probably the most PITA job I did on my car so far. If I can do it on my B5, I'm sure you can do it on your B6. But mind you, it won't be easy. And you have to be very careful you don't have the belt come off the crank or cam gear. If you do, you will basically be placing the car into service position regardless to fix that issue (you will be working blind otherwise because you can't see down there). And at that point, might as well replace the belt at the same time. Anyways...

Thanks for the link to your PSA too, I just read that and I guess it's similar to my car.

Here's a post with a vid of the engine clattering and also Post 36 shows me pushing on the loose TB. When I started the car it tightened up though, so it was wasn't loose or making clatter. Intermittent...
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...r-video-inside


I might look into the IE manual tensioner too.

[Seerlah]

AWM and AMB are the same block, just different stamps. I have an AWM. I even use same stock MAF, o2 sensors, and I'm sure other stuff. I could use an AMB TB kit, except the accessory belt would be useless to me (mine is different). I could use all other parts. And reading post #36 in your thread also make me believe your tensioner is bad. Like...4 years overdue bad. 9 years on the same TB components is pushing it.

[lookaught]

You don't need to disconnect the radiator hoses for service position. Only when taking the front clip off. And you don't need to remove your crank pulley to get to the tensioner (not in service position, if not with the front end fully intact). You see mine still bolted onto the gear. I went to inspect my belt one day and noticed it loose. Figured the tensioner was problematic, but not that bad. It was totally gone.

I thought I read that you unbolted the three bolts that hold on that lower TB cover...? Did you bend the metal back? Or can you unbolt it and spin it out of the way? Or is it just not in the way?

[Seerlah]

Not sure how your TB covers are. But the upper TB cover covers a bolt on the tensioner that secures it to the block. That had to be removed just for me to access that bolt for the tensioner. Crank pulley or anything was not touched. Only thing that was removed was the accessory belt tensioner (not sure how it is on the B6) and upper TB cover to get room and access to the tensioner. Lower cover wasn't touched. And really, this job is a real PITA. I am rather mechanically inclined, but I would not advice you to even try it unless you know your way around your car rather well. I've done a fair amount of work on my car to know what I can do, can't do, and won't even attempt to do.

[walky_talky20]

Mitch is correct (obviously, because he's the man). There are actually three (3) timing belt covers on the B6. Upper (plastic), middle, and the lower one (behind the crank pulley).

For replacing the hydro tensioner, you just need to remove the upper and middle covers. And you do not need to remove the crank pulley.

Very do-able without even going to the service position. Perhaps not entirely fun, but definitely doable. That would be the way I would do it. Just be very certain to account for all of your bolts. Don't drop any down the t-belt area or you'll be sorry.

[lookaught]

Mitch is correct (obviously, because he's the man). There are actually three (3) timing belt covers on the B6. Upper (plastic), middle, and the lower one (behind the crank pulley).

For replacing the hydro tensioner, you just need to remove the upper and middle covers. And you do not need to remove the crank pulley.

Very do-able without even going to the service position. Perhaps not entirely fun, but definitely doable. That would be the way I would do it. Just be very certain to account for all of your bolts. Don't drop any down the t-belt area or you'll be sorry.

Thanks, it's been a few years since I've done a B6 timing belt, thought there is only two covers. I'll probably put it in service position anyway I've done the knuckle busting tight quarters enough to know that my hands don't fit well in tight spaces with sharp edges.

[Seerlah]

Smart choice.

[MrTurrtle]

you can do a timing belt without service mode. just unbolt both of the front motor mounts from the bottom and jack the engine up. you'll have plenty of room.

[lookaught]

Quick update:

I did this replacement last week, putting the lock carrier into service mode. It took about 2.5 hours start to finish... 30 minutes on each end to get the car into service position, and then 1.5 hours to carefully replace the TB tensioner. There is plenty of room. I considered undoing the motor/trans/snub mounts but ultimately that meant jacking up the car, and I didn't want to do that haha. I've had the front end off so many times I knew the process and it's easy.

Anyway, thanks to everyone and particularly Seerlah who convinced me to not even attempt to do this replacement without getting more space. I have no idea how he managed to do this without more room... it was tight even with the extra two inches that the service position gets you!

So, a few pics and tips: I tried to zip tie the belt in place to keep it snug, but actually at TDC the tension from the cams and the crank sprocket actually keeps the belt tight on the business side (the drivers side that actually times the motor), so the zip ties were unnecessary. I also jammed a few shop towels down into the crank sprocket area just in case I dropped a bolt. Finally, when reinstalling the new tensioner, line up the bottom first because it sort of hooks over the edge of the TB cover, then install the top bolt first, then the bottom one. If you dont get the bottom hooked correctly when you put in the top bolt, you can shift it into alignment, you have to start over. Also, you need to remove the serp tensioner to get the middle TB cover off, plus it gives you a lot more room to work, so just do that first, it's only three bolts anyways.

service mode:


plenty of room.


Unnecessary zip ties


done!